The belief that money doesn't matter is bourgeois

[Mizmoon]

Several times when I've talked about money on DU I've heard the refrain that, "Money doesn't matter!"

Yes it does, and the denial that it does is bourgeois.

In other words - the poor and the rich know that money is important. It's only the middle class that tries to pretend it doesn't matter.

[GirlinContempt]

1. Depends on how you think it 'doesn't matter'

Everyone KNOWS it matters, but some people will say it doesn't matter more as a "it doesn't matter to me if I have a lot of it, it doesn't matter so much I won't use it to help people".

[bertha katzenengel]

2. Money doesn't matter.

Color me bourgeois. I don't much give a shit. Money doesn't matter to me. It is not important. It's not on my top fifty list of things that are most important to me.

[progmom]

3. one more reason why I adore you

:hi:

[bertha katzenengel]

6. oh, my

:blush: stop it, now. :hi:

[GirlinContempt]

4. Exactly

what I was tryin' ta say :) :hi:

[bertha katzenengel]

7. knew i wasn't alone

and I didn't mean to be combative, Mizmoon. I just don't like being called things. :)

[Mizmoon]

9. Things!

Ha, now what er ya goner do?


Frankly I expected such posts. Money is a sticky subject around here.

[bertha katzenengel]

13. LOL. Nuthin'!

Very sticky. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. Bingo darling. They can take away everything you own materially, but

they cannot EVER take away those things that truly matter. Good and faithful friends and family. :hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

22. amen, said the bourgeois atheist!

:rofl: i crack myself up

:hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. You crack me up too.

:hug:

[Mizmoon]

28. Have you ever read 1984?

they can take that and more.

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Several times...and only if you let them.

[pitohui]

35. but this is just not true

when you lose everything you own materially, look around, you will see a startling decrease in the number of family members and friends around you

when you lose materially, you even lose your memories, this is why the people who lost everything are so distressed at loss of certain photographs, pieces of china, etc. because these material objects are triggers for memories of the good times every time you see them

right now in southeast louisiana i'm surrounded by people who have lost everything materially including their communities, yes, whole towns destroyed

don't tell me money doesn't matter, money is the only thing that can even begin to make this right

everything else is just pious self-congratulation

money does matter, and we lose BIG TIME when we pretend it doesn't because you never make a good or wise decision when you're lying to yourself about reality

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. I have lost everything...and I haven't lost a soul in my immediate circle

of friends and family. Call me an idiot...or whatever. Sorry, can't force me into your way of thinking. Life is what you choose to make of it. Calling others names based on belief is a sad way to live.

[pitohui]

40. wtf is this???

Calling others names based on belief is a sad way to live.

i agree, so why was it necessary to attack me for describing the honest experience of myself and millions of other people

you may not like to admit it, but REALITY is that most people do lose people when they lose financially

pretending reality is not reality insults my intelligence

i didn't call you anything, i stated a reality, you chose to make it personal

right back atcha

what progressive believes life is what you make of it, leave the cant to the freepers please, i did not make this hurricane, i did not make my abuser, there are lots of things in life i did not make

only god is all-powerful and guess what, you're not him

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. I present for your perusal...

I quote, from your reply further down...

"i'm not sure who these idiots are who think money doesn't matter..."

I glady wear that name. I made nothing personal. I'm just not buying into what's being sold. I lived 3/4's of my life with financial problems. Down to losing electricity...losing heat, my parents' home being foreclosed upon, and I never lost my spirit, nor my joy in living. Not over money.

I chose to make nothing personal..you did.

that's my reality, maybe not yours, but it's truly sad that people put so much upon material wealth.

[pitohui]

43. that quote wasn't aimed at your personally

but if the shoe fits and you're determined to have your feelings hurt, fine, have at it

sheesh

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. My feelings aren't hurt. I'm just stunned, as I said, that so many place

so much on something of little significance IMO. Society has made it important I guess, but what means most to me is the companionship that my husband offers free of charge...the hugs without cost from my kids. :shrug: Never said you aimed it toward me personally.

[RandomKoolzip]

33. Do you pay rent or your own bills?

[bertha katzenengel]

48. I do pay bills, yes. I need money for all the things that keeps one

going. If I want to have food and a roof over my head, yeah. Money is important.

It's still not on my list as what I need to survive life. I need love, stimulation, discussion, touch, warmth, family, etc., etc.

[hfojvt]

44. in that case

send a large chunk of it to me, Al Franken.

[LaraMN]

5. It's damn important to me. I like eating and having heat.

Surprisingly enough, so do the rest of my family members! A Lexus, a McMansion, someone to shine my boots-- not so much.:)

[indigo32]

8. Exactly

and how much time you have to spend worrying about and obtaining those essentials matters.

[Mizmoon]

10. When I was poor I spent 99% of my time worrying

about the electric bill
about the phone that had been turned off
about the rent
I was in pain non-stop.

Money matters, especially when you have none.

[kick-ass-bob]

11. You have half of that right.

Money matters, only when you have none.

The poor let money control them, the rich control their money, that's how they become rich.

That's how some "inherited rich" become poor - because they don't control their money, it controls them.

[LaraMN]

12. That's my feeling. It hurts having to worry if I have enough gas to

get my son to the doctor's office, having no heat in the car that I have to haul my kids around in, in Minnesota. I think really, I'm probably on the same page as the above posters, in the sense that I don't desire extravagance- not by a long shot- but I wouldn't go so far as to say that money flat-out doesn't matter. I wish it didn't!

[Gormy Cuss]

16. Money doesn't matter to some people who can pay the bills

Bertha K explained that quite nicely. When someone in that situation says "Money doesn't matter" it means the accumulation of wealth is not an important goal. I would argue that the statement is anti-bourgeois.

I know what it's like to have a chronic lack of money for basic necessities. It is great to learn household management skills as a twelve year old. I knew exact how little we could get away with paying to the utility companies in order to save cash to pay for heating oil. The grocery list was figured down to the penny before I left the house. That saved the embarrassment of having to put things back at the register. I could go on, but suffice it to say I know what it means to think about the lack of money every single day. Even though it's been years since that was my lot, I still live in fear of wasting a dollar that I might need some day.

The best lesson I learned from this experience is that I have no need to define myself in terms of how much wealth I've accumulated. I need only make enough money to stay secure. Everything beyond that is a bonus. Money doesn't matter to me. There. I said it.

[patcox2]

14. Excellent observation.

Likewise, "class doesn't matter" is a purely middle class fiction. The upper classes are acutely aware of their status, and your lack of status, believe me. But they pretend they are egalitarian, primarily because if the general public ever heard the way the rich, the truly wealthy, the Bushes, for example, talk about regular people, they'd revolt.

[Mizmoon]

15. thanks!

and I agree with what you wrote too.

[anarch]

17. well, if there's anyone here to whom money is actually repugnant,

I suggest that you send it to me, immediately.


That said, I must say for myself, that money does not matter. That is, as long as I have food, shelter, clothing, and a moderate degree of comfort...and access to communication, transportation, and some amount of entertainment...and medical care...and enough of a safety cushion of wealth to get by in times of trouble. As long as I have all that, money doesn't matter at all....

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. I have to disagree, Mizmoon. Some of my fondest memories are of

my little mobile home, purchased at a time I could ill afford it. A single mom, breaking myself as a bank teller and hairstylist...trying to make ends meet and falling short monthly. Robbing Peter to pay Paul...but having this sweet little 3 year old beaming that she and her Mama had their own place...Mama and me nights when she picked what we would eat, what we would do, and she would end up asleep next to me in the spot now taken by MrG (which I wouldn't trade either). We are now doing relatively well. She has a Daddy and a little brother at 15. We have a good solid house and money in the bank. But somedays, I wish I could go back just for a few moments to that wonderful time.

No, money doesn't matter at all. sue me. :hi: :hug:

[Mizmoon]

27. I had the opposite reaction

Not being able to provide a stable home and the basics made me sad and stressed out. I feel much better now that I can provide those things and more easily. What changed was that I got a degree and was able to produce an income that met our needs.

True, the then baby doesn't remember it, but I remember that night in November of 1990 when the heat was turned off for lack of payment and we had to huddle under a blanket for warmth while I cried. What I would have given for the pittance it would have taken to get it turned back on!

They aren't the best memories.

I guess since then I've had a bit of the "I'll never be hungry again" thing going on. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. I've been there. I went without electricity for a month...and we survived.

A working furnace for two weeks in the coldest of Michigan Januaries...and we survived. It's just stuff.

[Flaxbee]

20. Money shouldn't matter, but it does when you don't have enough

I agree that the accumulation of wealth is rather ridiculous - fancy cars, multiple houses, frivolous clothes, etc. But if you don't have enough money to fix your car to get to work, it matters. If you can't pay your mortgage three months in a row and the bank is going to foreclose, it matters. If you're 70+ and working as a greeter at WalMart (who just cut your hours b/c they've run every other business out of business in your tiny town) and the new, high gasoline prices are making it impossible for you to pay for food and heating, it matters. If you have to decide, as many do, between food and medicine and being warm enough in the winter, money matters.

And if you're young, it's not nearly as big of a deal as when you get older and less physically able with many fewer work and life options.

There are too many people in my area who are about to lose everything they've ever worked for b/c they don't have enough money, can't earn enough, can't even find a job.

Until this country gets its priorities straight and offers national health care, and tells the credit card companies and banks and big oil and big pharma and the MIC to go f*ck themselves, people are going to suffer and money will matter. Until this country acts civilized and can give every single citizen a safety level below which they CANNOT fall, money matters.

Having lots of money obviously does not make anyone a better person. It doesn't buy happiness, but it sure as shit makes life in this country in 2005 much, much easier.

Perhaps it is wrong to say that money matters, it is better to say that the LACK of money matters greatly.

[merh]

21. It matters to me.

Without it, I can't rebuild my life. :-(
And those that control it and owe it to me won't give it to me, so I am left worrying about my future.

Those that have worry about keeping it and those that don't have it worry about getting it so they can survive. :-(

[Mizmoon]

25. I'm sorry you're suffering

I wanted you to know that I heard you. I hope that things get better soon. As time passes things will fall into place. They always do.
:hug:

[merh]

26. Thank you.

Thank you for caring enough to let me know that you heard me and for the support and hug. :hug:

God knows, how I wish money didn't matter. :-(

[BamaGirl]

36. Hugs Merh

What's the hold up? Insurance I'm assuming? Hope they come through for you soon. :hug:

[merh]

39. thanks BamaGirl

The insurance company has flat out denied my claim, something they are doing to the majority of folks here. I have to sue them and lord know that can take some time. The wheels of justice turned very slow here before the storm, now they have grinded to a halt. (There is no way to have trials, there are no jurors for trials, everyone has been dislocated. There is no way to serve notice on potential jurors to appear for consideration.) Once the process starts up again, the back log will make the slow process even slower.

It will all work out, eventually. :-) I do appreciate the good wishes and hug. :hug:

[pitohui]

42. damn insurers not paying anybody

how they can deny yr claim? in my case, they are not denying my claim, they just keep misplacing it but the effect is the same -- ain't got no damn money

i mean, wtf?

how long do they expect to keep this scam rolling? do they seriously think we're going to fold up and go away when they owe us tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

[merh]

49. Just imagine the jury that will consider the case.

They all will be from the area and they will have suffered losses or will know someone that suffered losses.

They are just trying to break us, make us so weak that we will accept any crumb they offer.

Sorry they keep losing your claim, at least my claim being denied puts me in FEMA's hands.

Good luck to you. :hug:

[BamaGirl]

46. Ugh those ppl are parasites

:grr: Sorry things are moving so slowly for y'all. Have another hug. ;) :hug:

[merh]

51. thanks

:hug:

[raccoon]

23. It really chaps me to hear people say that.

"Money doesn't matter." or "Money's not important."

Sure, it's not important if you have it. Air isn't important--until you don't have it. Water, same thing.

I don't have to be wealthy, but I do need money for housing, food, clothes, transportation etc.

Not to mention medical care, dental care, vision care, prescription drugs--and all those things are pretty darned expensive.

Anybody who says this should have to try to live without money for a while.

[billyskank]

24. I think it's like this

Money matters when you haven't got enough to meet your basic needs: food, shelter, and that sort of thing.

However, once an acceptable standard of living is achieved, more money doesn't mean more happiness. In my opinion loving relationships are the only wealth that counts.

[pitohui]

32. i doubt this is bourgeois belief either

i'm not sure who these idiots are who think money doesn't matter, but certainly comfortable middle class people are aware that money does matter, and most of us can price the exact cost of your shoes, car, handbag, hairstyle etc. at 50 paces

[MrScorpio]

34. Money does matter

Especially since I don't have any

[hfojvt]

47. everybody seems to say that

I think that $24,000 plus health insurance for $175 a year is a fair amount of money. If I could make half that amount without needing to work I would feel like the richest man alive.

What bothers me is people who drive around in $30,000 vans with bumpers stickers that say 'money does not matter'.

Right now I am bundled up in a house that is mostly unheated. I prefer the money to the warmth.

[BamaGirl]

38. Certainly matters to me

We took a major hit this year when my husband's employer decided to decimate over time. I didn't have to worry about it so much before, now I do. It's very stressful.

[Alcibiades]

50. On general principle

I must disagree. It is, in fact, a faux-genteel attitude that money does not matter. Folks who make this claim may be aping aristocrats, who themselves only make this argument in the most shamelessly self-serving way.

Poor folks will also assert that money does not matter as a way of affirming their own lifestyle choice. Money, like book-learning, is discounted. One cannot miss what one does not value.

All in all, though, the idea that money does not matter to the bourgeois pretty much contradicts 300 years of philosophic inquiry into that old stalking horse of continental philosophy, the bourgeois or burgher. This is precisely the class for whom money is the most important, the very people most likely to mistake the possession of money for personal excellence, etc.

It is exactly wrong to claim that money does not matter to the bourgeois or to the (classical) liberal. The bourgeois is the man who makes money his religion. I think that the idea that money, and earthly things in general, and this life as a whole, do not matter has its origins not in the ideology of the bourgeoisie, but in Christianity.