PC vs Mac - which should I buy and why?

[NewJeffCT]

I posted a few months ago and got some good comments. But, our now 3 1/2 year old Dell PC is really on its last legs. A friend of ours that knows quite a bit about computers thinks it may be the motherboard, but I don't know if she has all the information. We have backed up all our personal files onto an external hard drive.

Most of the PCs I have had, from IBM, to HP to Dell have lasted about 3-4 years each. The current monitor we have is about 7 years old now, and is also getting on in years.

I would like to get something that will last longer than 3 years or so, but Macs seem to be so expensive compared to a PC, that I am not sure it is worth it. I would prefer not to buy used, as you at least get a warranty with something new.

I can get a very good PC with an LCD monitor for around $1,000. When I went to a local Mac store in the mall, I was looking at well over $2,000 for a similar Mac, not including having to get MS Office. The Mac they have that is just the monitor is pretty cool, but I would also have to buy something extra to play/edit mini DVDs from our DVD camcorder or buy the separate system. Am I way off base in my pricing?

Other than playing & editing the mini DVDs, we primarily use it for internet browsing, email, watching regular DVDs, occasionally using Excel, Word and PowerPoint, and the very occasional PC game.

[cleofus1]

1. if you have the money and don't play games...

buy a mac...

otherwise...buy a pc...but not from gateway dell etc...either go to a local computer store or go to an online vendor and build your own...

[NewJeffCT]

3. online vendor

Can you point me to one?

thanks

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Goto a local vendor.

Always. Support the local businessman and have support at your fingertips.

[SlackJawedYokel]

12. I just bought most of one from

Monarch Computers.
Definitely recommend.
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=allcustom#desktops

Cletus

[meegbear]

2. Get a mini-Mac

You can get one and get a monitor, mouse and keyboard for under $1000 with all the trimmings. You can get Office for Mac; I have it and the files work on both Windows and Mac. Costs about $250.

I can't comment on the DVD stuff or PC games.

[benburch]

7. And you can get OpenOffice and AbiWord...

For free and operate on most Microsoft Office files.

I recommend buying a refurbished eMac from the Apple Store's online site; You can get a fast G4 machine with a DVD-R for $799 as of this morning. 17" screen, 1.25 GHz processor, 256 MB RAM, 80 GB disk, Ethernet, Modem, Keyboard, speakers, microphone, USB-2, Firewire, full warrantee.

I'm using a 1GHz eMac right now and love it.

[benburch]

5. Macs cost no more than equivalent name-brand PCs.

And are immune from viruses and spyware at present.

That could change, but I'm betting it won't; Windows is more full of holes than swiss cheese, and the Mac is based on BSD Unix, which has years of hardening and peer review behind it.

[KurtNYC]

6. I've owned both

I think the difference use-wise is less than ever. I switched from Mac to PC and I run everything I used to run on the Mac - Photoshop, etc. Cost was a factor plus I got tired of the Mac's over engineering (which is what you pay for). Apple lost me when they put out that model that looked like a box of kleenex (~2001)

[cleofus1]

8. local is good

but in a pinch

http://www.xtechnology.com

[NewJeffCT]

9. thanks, I will try local

just to see the prices.

[Ready4Change]

10. I use both.

I have a PC desktop, and use PC's for work. (Or it did when I wasn't "between jobs.") I also have an Apple iBook, which I use for daily browsing, posting here on DU, etc...

While I highly recommend Macs, I've got to say that if you want to run current games, you get more bang for your buck with a PC. More games are written for the PC, thus the most recent titles are for the PC, and for a top of the line gaming spec machine PCs cost far less.

For all your other uses I see Macs and PC's being fairly equal. I see Macs being easier for a new computer user, and PC's better for people who like to tinker with their equipment. (Or who at least like to have the option to do so.)

But for games, PC's are the better choice, imho.

(I typed this on my much beloved iBook.)

[Dukkha]

11. They will soon be more closely related

The next generation Macs next year will be Intel based, and a new Mac OS X will be ported to PC platforms.

So you could get a PC now and run Mac OS on it eventually. Just don't skimp on the hardware and you'll have something that will last for years. You could probably have a PC custom built that would be the same price as an off the shelf Dell and be far better quality.

I've been using the same Mac G4 for 4 years now and It still functions flawlessly. Never had a problem with it.

[newportdadde]

13. I'd get your old PC checked out or do some research on it yourself.

Our old one use to have trouble booting up, turned out it was the video card going out. I replace it for 10 bucks on Ebay and still have that PC as an emergency box incase my current Dell(also 3 years old) goes out.

[hyphenate]

14. My suggestion:

A 5 year old PC is probably behind in technology anyhow, and for a $1000 with a PC, you're getting a pretty good deal across the board. HOWEVER. Celeron processors (the cheapest Intel chip) are not meant to be upgraded, so the computer is more difficult to improve on down the line. A few dollars more initially can buy you an upgradeable PC, one where you can replace the different components instead of trashing the whole PC. I have an AMD Athlon processor which is less expensive than an Intel processor, and for me there is no discernible difference in performance. In order to keep the computer more up to date, buying a new motherboard and processor every few years is a lot less expensive than going for the whole enchilada. And adding memory is a snap--literally.

I would go to a good computer warehouse and get a good, fairly powerful machine for about $1500. Then, as components begin to fail in the future (DVD and CD writers ALWAYS go on me after about a year or year and a half), you need only replace those parts. Your machine can remain more current this way, and the amount of money you're spending isn't wasted.

I love the fact that there is so much software out there for PCs. You don't get the same diversity in programs for the Mac, and shareware and freeware just doesn't come very much for the Macs. On the basis of software alone, I would go with the PC. If you work with a PC at work, you can always take work home with you if needed, and of course the same is true of Macs.

If you were a professional in the graphics industry, you would likely work with a Mac at work. This is the only main reason you might choose a Mac. But even there, most software companies have equivalent programs for both computers.

If you are not skilled in techie work, in the old days, you might have chosen a Mac over a PC for sheer ease, but with Windows XP and the "plug-and-play" platform, it's now just as easy to use a PC.

I hope this helps!

[youspeakmylanguage]

15. My 2 cents...

Union Built PC

Otherwise, your post is too vague to adequately answer. A computer cannot be on "it's last legs" unless there is a component malfunctioning. You are either the victim of malware and spyware, which is slowing down your system, or else you are attempting to run a program that is too technically advanced for your system. In that case your computer is underpowered.

So many people waste hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars on computers that are either overpowered or underpowered.

You need to identify what you use your computer for (business apps, games, publishing, internet connectivity and networking, etc), how much money you want to spend, and most importantly, how much time and money you want to spend actually learning how your system works.

1) If you want a "family" machine (games, internet, cd burning, etc), have limited funds and want a system that works "out of the box", go with a discount manufacturer (Dell, Compaq) and Windows operating system. Disadvantages are a dependency on proprietary software and overexposure to malware and spyware. This is akin to buying a domestic station wagon.

2) If you want a powerful machine, have a reasonable or more than reasonable budget and want a system that works "out of the box" yet still razzles and dazzles, go with a Mac. Disadvantages are more dependency on proprietary software and devices but with less exposure to malware and spyware. This is akin to buying a European sports car.

3) If you want a machine that works to the limits of it's capabilities, have almost no budget, but are willing to spend a lot of time and money learning a new system, then go with a used computer and a Linux distro. A HUGE advantage is almost no dependencies on proprietary software - you choose which OS you want to use and you can pick from a library of thousands of Open Source/GNU licensed software. Disadvantages include compatibility issues with proprietary Windows software and limited "out of the box" capabilities, but with almost no exposure to spyware and malware. This is akin to buying a cheap used Honda Civic and tricking it out (if the accessories were free).

Also, if you have a good budget AND want the advantages of Linux, there are many companies that produce powerful Linux machines.

[NewJeffCT]

16. so, if I have spyware & malware...

I will say that the PC consistenly crashes - often get the blue screen with the message on the bottom about physical memory being dumped. When I reboot the PC, I get the message that windows has recovered from a serious error & when I send the message to Microsoft, I get the message that the error is being researched & they have no info at this time.

What should I do? I have Yahoo anti-spyware running, as well as "Counter Spy", which is supposed to be one of the best anti-spyware programs out there.

I've also downloaded several windows updates with a malicious software removal tool in it.

[youspeakmylanguage]

20. I'm not an expert...

...but dumping Internet Explorer in favor of Firefox will help tremendously. Dumping Microsoft Windows in favor of Linux or Tiger will help even more...(see the emerging pattern?)

The fact is that 95% of the malicious programs that will try to infiltrate your PC are designed to penetrate and infect Microsoft products. Since Microsoft has 91-94% of the OS market, 90%+ of the web browser market and at least a majority of the E-mail app market, most malicious crackers, script kiddies and spammers simply don't bother targeting Linux or Apple users. If Apple or another company such as Mozilla were able to gain a significant market share, then they would most likely be targeted as well.

If you continue using Microsoft products, then the only real solution is to stay ahead of the criminals with expensive firewall and security software.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

30. You actually need about 4 pieces of spyware detection

software on your system!! Run them in "Safe Mode".

[DemBones DemBones]

17. The morons who invent

viruses write them for PCs, not for Macs. Mac owners are thus spared a LOT of grief. My husband uses Macs at work and I have a Mac at home so he decided he'd get a PC for his home computer, just to keep up with PCs (which we had a dozen years ago, running DOS.) His virus protection on the PC has let him down over and over and he has greatly regretted buying a PC.

The downside of Macs/ upside of PCs is that more software is also written for PCs but we haven't found that to be a real handicap.

[Redstone]

18. Just don't buy a G5 iMac!

They're nothing but trouble.

If you decide on a Mac, pick any other model.

Redstone

[NewJeffCT]

19. what is wrong with it?

My internet search capability is limited today...

[SkipNewarkDE]

24. Power Supply Issues with a certain run of them...

A supplier of parts used in the power supply had a bad run of capacitors that were used in the G5 iMac and other manufacturer's machines. Sometimes they go pop, and you need to cart your machine in for a motherboard or power supply swap. The nice thing tho is that Apple usually upgrades your machine to the latest and fastest and greatest, ha ha ha.

This only affected machines manufactured in a certain period.

[benburch]

27. There were also fan firmware issues...

Where the fans would cycle to high and back at odd and inappropriate times. Also now fixed.

[Redstone]

41. They overheat and burn up;

they have severe problems with the displays; and a ton of other quality issues.

Go to http://www.macintouch.com for more information.

Don't buy one! Especially because you could buy a Mac Mini and a ton of other stuff for the same price.

To tell you the truth, my recommendation is that you buy a used Mac, maybe a nice G4. It seems like Macs get less reliable with every new generation.

Redstone

[cleofus1]

21. these mac vs pc threads

are always good for a hoot,,,,

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. I've been a Mac person since 1986

They're sturdy, reliable, easy to use, and if you're in a large city, there's probably an Apple Store that offers walk-in support.

I'm not a techie, so I want something that I don't have to fiddle with a lot for word processing in English and Japanese, e-mail, Internet surfing, and the small amount of spreadsheet work I need for my freelance business.

I'm not a gamer. In fact, I was already in my twenties when Pong and Asteroids came out, so the availability or non-availability of games is a non-issue for me. I don't do CAD, either, and I understand that is another area where PCs are better.

I'm typing this on a 12" iBook bought in September 2004 for traveling to Japan. It's now my principal computer, although that's not what I intended. It's just so much handier than my January 2000 desktop iMac, which is still running, but doesn't offer the freedom that the iBook does. The iBook was $1500, including extra memory, an Airport card, and a dealer-installed Microsoft Office.

It works great, but it's a bit small for some of the assignments I do (like the ones that require me to translate PDFs of oversize documents) so I'm saving up for something with a larger screen. (My desktop has a 14.5" screen.) The screen size is my only complaint.

It doesn't crash. Even if an individual program crashes, the system does not, thanks to the newer Unix-based OS.

[SkipNewarkDE]

23. Use Windows and Mac at work, Mac at home

I recommend a Mac, unless you are a hard-core gamer. The sheer elegance and sophistication of the system is nearly effortless. Using both machines side-by-side at work, I am continually frustrated by some of the really crappy design in Windows XP. I am not talking just about how XP LOOKS. I am talking about the user experience, so far as where stuff is located functionally, what contortions you need too go through to do certain things.

The Mac is a really consistent, elegant piece of equipment, and OS X is a brilliant operating system. The level of integration of the various software packages, especially the iLife media suite just blows anything on the Windows side away. I do a lot of photo manipulation, video, and music. The ease with which I can grab video out of my camera, assemble it with professional looking transitions, music, stills, etc. and put it back out to DVD is remarkable. That same level of care and integration permeates all of the best applications on the machine. Too often when I use Windows XP, it is a jarring experience - there is only rudimentary consistency between each application, and data interchange is there, but it just isn't as elegant.

And the thing is dependable. I have the iMac G5, some of which DO have problems due to an issue with bad parts used in the power supply, something which affected several manufacturer's computers recently. Despite the difficulty, I walked into an Apple store with the thing, sat at the genius bar, and was immediatley entertained and amused by the technicians for the time it took to fix the thing. The whole retail experience just exhuded this enthusiasm and energy that I never experience in any other computer store. Everyone was talking, sharing experiences, talking about NEAT things they were doing with their computers... a real sense of culture and community.

[sir_captain]

25. Don't go Apple for the long term

Because of Apple's impending switch to Intel chips, the current line of G4 and G5 based machines are not going to age well--software written a few years from now will not run on the PowerPC platform as Apple software developers begin to write software for the Intel chips.

My suggestion is to forget about having a computer that lasts more than 3-4 years: the computing world just moves too quickly now for that. Instead focus on purchasing a sub-$1000 PC that will be terrific for the next couple of years and then cross that bridge when you get to it.

[NewJeffCT]

26. sounds like good advice

Thanks

[benburch]

29. But still buy an Apple.

As you say, in three years you will want to replace it anyway!

And there is no reason to suffer with an inferior computer for three years.

[SkipNewarkDE]

36. Easy with the FUD

I am a software developer, and we DO write for PC and Macintosh. The G series stuff will age just fine. Our development tools for Mac have been revved to build what is called Universal Binaries, which contain the executables for both PowerPC and Intel-based platforms. All Mac software will be like this for the next several years, ie. the average lifetime of the machine.

[sir_captain]

37. The OP

is talking about wanting to have the machine for a lot longer than 3-4 years, though, and do you really think 7 or 8 years from now you'll still be writing for PPC? If you are, Apple won't be doing very well...

[SkipNewarkDE]

42. In 7 or 8 years, the determining factor...

for obsolesence is not going to be determined by the processor type. That's a lifetime for most computers. I cant take one of my 8 year old Wintel boxes and run today's software on it, either.

Regardless, as a developer, I will build for both PPC and x86 because it doesn't require any additional effort on my part. It's a flag in the compiler, the development environment does all of the work. Most software packages will be like this, and a developer isn't going to switch this off when there is still a potential market for those machines. Apple developers have been pretty good about maintaining long-term compatibility with previous machine architectures and OSes, far better at it than Microsoft platform, actually. Our company still supports running on OS 9, and that has been obsolete for four or five years now. But since most Mac people tend to hang onto their machines a bit longer before upgrading, especially in academia and sciences, which are our primary customers, we still support them.

[sir_captain]

43. Ah, we get to the crux of the issue

which is that it'll be easy for developers like you who are using Apple's dev kit. Not so easy for developers who haven't been--this is an issue that has been well-covered since WWDC. If it were so easy to recompile every little bit of software, there would be no reason for Rosetta, and even Rosetta isn't going to work for any bit of code that uses Altivec.

As for backwards compatibility, well, that's a whole different argument...

[SkipNewarkDE]

47. We use CodeWarrior....

... and while there has been no official announcement as of yet, I would warrant that they will attempt to remedy the situation regarding universal binaries.

I have migrated large projects back and forth between the two development systems. Moving our project, which consists of a couple of hundred source files, and several million lines of code will take perhaps a week to accomplish.

I was involved with development during the migration of 68K to PPC, and this will actually be quite a bit easier. Carbonizing code blew chunks. I haven't done enough research to understand the migration of Altivec stuff, which is fine at this point, as we don't use it anyway.

But back to the original post, buying a PowerPC Mac in the near term and wanting it to last for four or five years is not going to be a big deal, as software companies know where the bread is buttered, and will produce the universal binaries in the near term, especially for home or consumer applications.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

28. I'm an IT Consultant and I would not get a Dell. Too many

problems. If you get a PC try Compaq. No problems with them. Also you might want to try to back up your whole system and reinstall the software. First before you reinstall put the Recovery CD in the drive *then* turn off the computer. Take the panels off the system and air blow out the insides. Then take the connections off some of the devices and put them back on to ensure good connections. Also the only things that should be hooked up to the system is the keyboard, mouse and monitor, that's all; no printers or even internet connection. Then once everything is back together *do not* plug the system back in but hold in the power button for one minute; what this does is discharges the residual electricity in system. Now plug everything back in and boot. After the software has been reinstalled *first* put on your firewall/AV then get your updates from Microsoft.

[benburch]

31. A Naked W-98 machine on the net does not stay uninfected long enough...

to download and install Microsoft's patches! They did some tests on that not long ago and reported it on Slashdot.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

32. That's why I said to to put security on there first. Also

after that has been loaded run Ad-Aware and Spybot on the system!! Yes a clean system does have pests on it. Then go get your updates from Microsoft.

[benburch]

33. This is why I SO prefer Linux, BSD, or MacOS X

None of these worries apply.

[NewJeffCT]

35. Unfortunately...

When we moved & started having problems, I was unable to locate any of the systems disks that originally came with the PC.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

40. If you have, you can probably get around that. Let me think about

it.

On Edit:

What's the model number?

[NewJeffCT]

46. It's a Dimension 4400

I don't have the model # with me here at work.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

49. Yhe best thing to do is take the system to a local computer shop

and they *might* be able to make a system recovery disk for you. I don't think it will cost more than $50. I could tell you how to do it yourself but ......

[RebelOne]

34. I use the eMac at the office.

That is the one that has the whole works in the monitor. It's a really cool computer. At home I have the cheap eMachine PC. I only paid $399 for it 3 years ago not including the monitor and it is still running perfectly. But all I use it for is surfing the Net, so I don't need anything more powerful.

[slybacon9]

38. long time mac user say go mac mini

jsut bought one for my dad, and was surprised at how fast it was. Cheap, tiny, and built very well. Good if you want to get into Macs. You won't be sorry on that end.

The question really comes down to aesthetics i think. Macs are generally better feeling tools. PCs are clumsy and graphically horrible. Basically it would be like comparing a japanese garden to a Walmart.

Oh yeah, and Macs are about 1000 times easier to deal with.

And viruses hardly EVER happen. Or freezing. And you can have all your programs open at once be downloading off the internet and burning a CD at the same time and it won't slow down.

I never met a PC user that went Mac and wasn't blown away.

Basically, once you go Mac, you never go back.

we are cultists.

For godsakes move away from the Dell though NJ...

[BlueJazz]

39. I'm a Tech so I'll throw in my little Two Cents.

Look at this:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1389560&sku=SYXS-DC-988860

I have nothing against a Mac but most computers are out-dated after 4 years and the idea of paying so much for a Mac just doesn't seem cost worthy.

As far as getting a Virus or getting hacked or spyware ...that's the users fault. (Yeah..I'm pretty hard-line on that)
I know several Techs and we NEVER get any problems with our PC's...simply because we protect them...and cheaply also.

I run one of the best Anti-Virus on the Planet ..NOD32.
I have anti-hijacking, anti-spyware on mine also.
The only people who complain are the ones that use junk programs to protect their computer. (Sorry..People)

[Hugin]

44. Buy a PSP!

;)

[intrepid_wanderer]

45. MAC

I've had a Mac for several years...


Recently I upgraded to a Mac PowerBook G4 laptop with a DVD burner/CD-RW....


It's a dream & so very smooth. Even my mother used it (she's not too good with computers generally)... with great success.

my 2 cents

:bounce:

[cleofus1]

48. hey new jeff!

what did you decide?

really...macs are good...but i could not find one that i liked for less than 2000...and i would not be able to play some of my favorite games on it...very pricey (here in anchorage anyways)...i still say the best way is to build one yourself...450 w power supply and roomy case and the right motherboard will allow you to expand your system over the years...run two to four viri programs and you should be able to run your system with a minimum of problems...get at least a 3 gig processor and at least 512 mg of ram...
my motherboard has 4 slots that i can expand to 4 gigs of ram...and front system bus must be as large as is available...a system like this can run about 1000.00 w/o monitor...but you will love it...i've had mine since october with zero crashes...zero crashes...and i can expand my space by adding a hard drive...i have a 120 gig hd right now...and with my lian li tower i can pretty much expand as i please...hell i can probobly play a game of volley ball in there in a pinch....do some serious shopping...macs are great if you have money to burn and don't care about gaming...but if you want a serious system that you can build on get a PC....and you really have to build it yourself...


my baby