I don't give a hoot about Wesley Clark

[undeterred]

Am I a DU misfit? :scared: :cry: :scared: :cry: :scared: :cry: :scared: :cry: :scared: :cry: :scared:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

1. I've got the fire extinguisher ready ..........

[Droopy]

2. I like Clark

But not enough to post in the Wes Clark group. I think there are some people here that would agree with you, though. So you are not a misfit.

[billbuckhead]

3. Ist in his class at west point, purple heart in Vietn, working class roots

There's a lot to like. But then I don't trust or like Dean.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

4. Smile when you that ...........

:nuke:

[bowens43]

13. 30 years of military indoctrination is something to like?

The man spent his entire adult life looking for military solutions to political problems. We have a CIVILIAN government. After 30 years, you may leave the military but it doesn't leave you.

[Droopy]

17. But I heard that he had similar social and domestic views

as Kucinich. If that's true the guy can't be too bad.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

19. Take a look at the Clark forum. I think it's still up.

[noahmijo]

5. speaking as someone who is pushing for Clark in 08

I don't give a hoot what you think. I think he's the man for the job. But hey if whoever you're pushing happens to get more votes and is a true progressive than I'll back him/her like a favorite horse.

[undeterred]

11. I have nothing against him at all.

But having only been around DU for a month or two, its hard for me to understand why there are so many posts and discussions about him right now.

:shrug:

I have no opinion on '08. Well, maybe I'm leaning a little towards Feingold but that's because he's my Senator and I know more about him.

I can't understand why people spend so much time discussing Hillary either, although I suspect its because the Right won't stop talking about her.

[Rowdyboy]

21. You'd understand if you'd been lurking during the campaign from mid-2003

Clark has a lot of supporters here. So does Kerry, Dean, and Kucinich. Personally, I like all of them and try not to bad mouth any of them.

[Trajan]

6. I give a hoot for Clark ...

Ok .. two hoots and a holler ...

HOOT ! .. HOOT .. HOOEYYYYYYYYYYYY !

[Crazy Guggenheim]

8. I gotta tell you something that I am big on Clark for VP. He's

the perfect candidate.

[KittyWampus]

7. Well, Everyone's Different & Have Differing Views!

so you're not a misfit.

Although, I think Clark's a pretty stand up, righteous truthteller.

:)

[nickgutierrez]

9. I'm pretty indifferent towards him, to be honest.

(Not posting a further opinion.)

[undeterred]

10. I have to confess that I really didn't pay that much attention to the

primaries. I didn't catch on to Howard Dean or anyone, I just wasn't into it. And I hadn't discovered DU yet. I campaigned for Kerry, but I would have campaigned for whoever the Dem candidate was. There were things I liked very much about him and things I didn't like. Nobody's perfect.

But more than anything else, I don't think politics should be all about the politicians- it should be all about us. Who is really going to serve all the people of this country. Its not always that easy to tell from a campaign.

[bowens43]

No you're not.

Most us didn't drink that particular brand of kool-aid.

Clark lost big time in the primaries because Democrats overwhelmingly rejected him. He's very transparent. He had absolutely no qualifications for the office of president. He was an unabashed supporter of bush, cheney and the rest of the neo-cons....at least until they made it clear they didn't want him. Then of course his loyalties changed.

[IChing]

12. I think it's worthless talk unless you work locally for 2006

anything else is fantasy no matter who I want
I do work locally and state wide
get your elections honest, work locally think globally

I stay out of those Clark, Hillary, Warner, Jeb
discussions. A waste of time,
in the time we have left
on what is really important.


I want Chavez for 2008.

[WhollyHeretic]

14. I don't have anything against Clark

but I'm not particularly enamored with him. I'm new here and was very surprised to see the amount of talk about Clark on this board. Some people get pretty nasty defending him too, I think it's a little early to pick an '08 canidate yet.

[undeterred]

15. Welcome GreenJ!

:hi:

I'm sure there's a history to some of the discussions here that goes way back...

[WhollyHeretic]

27. Thanks for the welcome

[Crazy Guggenheim]

31. Hi GreenJ!!

[JohnKleeb]

16. Nah youre entitled to that opinion

Personally on Clark, I think he should run for Governor in Arkansas, we do have an opening out there as Huckabee has to retire. I think it would be a great chance for Clark to show what he can do.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

18. That's right! I want to see WC get in the thick of things.

[JohnKleeb]

20. Seriously though

I want to see how he would do as governor, like I think its reasonable to say that Clark should run for the opening there, and Arkansas isnt a bright red state either, its always been one of the more liberal states in the south.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

22. Same here. Also as a side note ..........

More than a few Demos don't quite "trust him" yet. I think that he could realy show his stuff.

[JohnKleeb]

25. Well apparently theres already a defacto dem candidate there

and I know they have two dem senators.

[Rowdyboy]

23. Sorry, John, but Arkansas's next governor is gonna be Mike Beebe

He's the heir apparent, the current state Attorney General and a really good candidate.

Both senate seats are in the hands of young, ambitious Democrats. If Wes Clark wants an electoral future he has no choice-it the presidency or nothing.

[JohnKleeb]

24. Oh my apologies

I didnt know that, he has every right to run for the presidency though, it would be nice if he could build up his political resume though, no offense intended to him what so ever, I just want to see what the man is capable of doing once in office.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

29. Someone new like Clark would shake up the Democratic

establishment. We need the change right away!! And Clark is the man for it at the time!

[Rowdyboy]

33. Arkansas politics has always been very hierarchical and the state

attorney general has been a typical stepping stone for Democrats running for governor. Clinton followed this path, as did Jim Guy Tucker and at least one other Arkansas attorney general whose name totally escapes me right now.

I thought the 2002 nominee, Jimmie Lou Fisher might run but she declined. As it stands, the Democratic field has been cleared for Beebe. Republicans have a very contentious primary. Asa Hutchison, former Bush drug czar and brother of the fundy Arkansas senator Hutchinson who Mark Pryor beat in 2004, is running as is Lt Gov Winthrop Rockefeller who has more money than God.

Clark certainly could run for governor against Beebe, split the party for his own political advantage, force Beebe to spend all his cash in a primary and probably win. But the Arkansas Democratic party is ailing right now and a fierce party primary is the last thing they need. It would be counter-productive to say the least.

To be a governor is to be an administrator, a delegater, a manager. Thats exactly the same thing a commanding general does. There is a necessity to think strategically, plan pro-actively, delegate carefully, build morale and maintain basic societal norms (food/clothing/housing/schools). General Clark has spent much of his career doing just that.

When Dwight Eisenhower retired from the military he moved directly to the White House. No one felt it necessary for him to run the state government of Kansas to prove that he was competent to be president. His military resume proved he was competent to be president. In my opinion, Wes Clark has earned the same respect.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

34. We don't need no stinking rules.

Keep Clark occupied.

[JohnKleeb]

35. Well I obviously didnt know that but thank you

I dont know Arkansas politics well enough to understand. I just want to see what Clark is capable of doing as a politican like what kind of programs etc he will support. I didnt know about Beebe and youre right it would be a mistake. I just want to see what Clark can do as a politican before I can support him running for the white house in a primary now if hes the nominee, hes got my support, hes a fine guy but he needs to establish himself, just my personal preference, I would have felt hte same about Eisenhower.

[Rowdyboy]

36. Here's a good article on the race from Thursday's Ark Democrat Gazette

http://nwanews.com/story.php?paper=bcdr§ion=News&storyid=21768

I started following Arkansas politics in 1972/73 when I entered college next door in Mississippi. Gov Dale Bumpers beat J William Fullbright (one of my hero's) for a senate seat in 1974 and Bill Clinton lost his first political race for congress that year. That was the Watergate/Nixon pardon election when Democrats won almost every race being contested. It was awesome-one of the greatest nights of my life.

Arkansas is a fascinating state with an really intriguing political history (would make a wonderful master's dissertation).

I'm not shilling for Clark. I respect him and will probably wind up in his camp in 2008. And I understand people like you who want to see a candidate with an elective history and have no problem with that, it just isn't that important to me, considering his overall career.

I expect 2008 to be like 2004, 1992, 1988, 1984 and 1976. There will be 8-12 Democratic candidates, almost all of whom I could happily (or at least willingly) vote for. When the time comes, I'll vote for whoever the party nominates because the alternative is just too horrible to imagine. I imagine you will too.

Regardless, we've gotta get through 2006 before 2008 really becomes relevant.

[JohnKleeb]

37. Thanks

and thanks for understanding where I am coming from. Oh and 2005 not 2006 ha, just teasing ya man, just we here in virginia have a governor's race which is going to be my first race. I realize you're not shilling, understand whats going on, in fact when I mentioned that Arkansas's two senators were more moderate, someone took that to mean they were DINOs and Clark should run against them which I thought was absurd for the same reasons it seems it would be for him to run against this current AG. Yes, Arkansas is interesting politically, the state I study most politically though has to be the state of Pennyslvania.

[Rowdyboy]

38. Pennsylvania makes Arkansas look NORMAL!

What an incredibly strange place politically. Often I've found myself liking their Republicans abbout as much as their Dems. I actually saw Governor Milton Shapp speak in Atlanta during his brief presidential run in 1976.

I had a hard time disliking John Heinz-he was a Republican but definitely not a Trent Lott/Bill Frist rethug. I really liked Senator Harris Wofford but former Gov Bob Casey (who appointed Wofford) irritated me to no end frequently. Don't even get me started on the various mayors of Philadelphia! Frank Rizzo was a Democrat and the worlds largest asshole simultaneously!

[JohnKleeb]

39. Thats what I mean

Yeah Heinz was a good man and back then really the parties were much more diverse. Oh yes Casey was pro life and more conservative on guns as well. The thing about Pennsylvania though is you'll have some republicans from like the Philly area who are liberals on the social issues but more like your average republican economically but if you go to where my family is from you get some democrats who are conservative on social issues but very new deal like on economics. Its a funny state. I originally read that Rizzo was a republican but recently read he was a dem, I first learned about him from the Jerky boys of places.

[Rowdyboy]

41. Here's a link that will explain the bizarre story of Rizzo's party....

He was a Republican at heart who ran as a Democrat because it was expedient. After 2 terms he launched a drive to overturn the "two consecutive term limit" in Philadelphia. It lost 85%-15%.

4 years later he ran against Wilson Goode as a Democrat, then, 4 years later, he ran against Goode as a Republican. Republican, Democrat, Republicrat, Demopublican, Frank Rizzo was first and foremost a loud-mouthed, bigoted, right-wing asshole.

For detail, google "Frank Rizzo Republican" and read the first link. I tried to post to the article but it won't let me.

He was a really nasty, overly ambitious, cheaply conniving man.

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

26. If the primaries still mattered when they got to me

I would have voted for General Clark. Does the "General" part bother me, not so much. It seems to me like he has a level head about when using force is, unfortunately, necessary. I believe I heard him say no one wants war less than a soldier because they are the ones who have to fight it. Although that might not always be the case it seems to me that that is his opinion.I agree with his stance on guns, if you want a semi-automatic join the army you can use them all you want. His tax plan is what won me over to him.

In the primaries I would have taken any of the Dems except Lieberman with Dean, Kucinich and Kerry not far behind Clark.

[RandomKoolzip]

28. He's a good guy, but so is Kerry, Dean, Kucinich, etc.

I don't see why the rest of DU seems to think that if you like one of those guys, you can't like the others. Really fucking odd, IMO.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

30. Bravo!!

[bobthedrummer]

32. You're not a misfit and you are not alone.

Some of his partisans have even targeted and used concerted group efforts to get DUers deemed "anti-Clark" banned.
http://chat.forclark.com/comments/2005/4/10/15343/7983/233#233

[Corey_Baker08]

40. I Really Dont Give a shit about Clark

I wish him the best if he runs but I wont be supporting him in the primaries. All of this DU talk of Clark I believe is completly overblown.

Just hearing about him so much on DU makes me dislike him all the more, he seems to eager to please.

[Floogeldy]

44. With which specific issues are you concerned?

B-)

[Floogeldy]

42. I feel fairly confident that he gives a hoot about you.

B-)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

43. How the heck would you know? Have you talked to him and he

mentione undetered?

[undeterred]

45. Wow, I started a political thread in the Lounge.

I didn't mean to. :shrug: