Cleveland

[RPM]

Discuss

[Dr.Phool]

1. Where's the lake?

[RPM]

2. wrong cleveland thread...

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3392072&mesg_id=3392072

[JVS]

3. Mmmm, non consecutive-a-licious

[RPM]

6. errrrrrr, yeah

if that is indeed a term.

[EstimatedProphet]

4. Grover Cleveland was a pretty good president

[RPM]

5. I like Ice Cream

:D

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Mmmmmmmmmm icecream

[CubsFan1982]

8. Pretty laissez-faire, but OK.

Didn't give in to that idiot fundie William Jennings Bryan. :D

[hfojvt]

9. Laissez-faire?

Using Federal troops to end a strike, against the wishes of the state governor is laissez-faire? Of course, it means 'let us be' for business, and 'enforce our wage-slavery' for workers.

As for the idiot fundie WJB - he was a Democrat fighting to keep the workers and the small farmers from being 'crucified on a cross of gold!' Are you thinking of Coolidge anyway? Wasn;t Cleveland long gone before Bryan rose to prominence?

[CubsFan1982]

10. Whoa, slow down there, comrade!

Unlike others, I don't judge a man or his Presidency on the basis of one action. So he made a mistake in the Pullman Strike. You can start by admitting that other Presidents, including that famous progressive Theodore Roosevelt also ordered injunctions against unions. Cleveland obtained passage and signed the Interstate Commerce Act, the first time anyone had tried regulating corporations, an action that any sane person would take as friendly to workers.

And what about the gold standard? The depression that had started as Cleveland began his second term was ending by 1896 after he had persuaded Congress to retain the gold standard. Releasing more silver into the market would only have made things worse - it would have flooded the economy with more currency and caused more inflation. Cleveland, examining his actions in the context of the time, was right, and Bryan, in the context of the time, was wrong.

[hfojvt]

13. any sane person? what are you insinuating?

That there are some people who believe that keeping the money supply tight ends recessions? That inflation causes recessions which are periods of deflation?
Maybe I am crazy, but I thought that the farmers/workers wanted Bryan to be President, rather than McKinley/Roosevelt. So it is supposed to prove something that Roosevelt did things as bad as Cleveland? :crazy:
Also, the "comrade" thing is what right wingers like to call socialists/workers' advocates so they can conflate them with Soviet tyranny and Stalin - not even close to cool and not something a fellow traveller would do. :P

[CubsFan1982]

14. I'm saying don't judge someone by one solitary action.

Cleveland accomplished some good things while in office, too. The point I was making about Roosevelt is that all other Presidents between Cleveland and FDR did the same thing that Cleveland did in the Pullman strike. Granted, not quite on the large scale as Pullman, but they did, so to say that Cleveland was singularly bad because of that action is wrong.

[hfojvt]

18. Pullman is not a "larger scale"

it is qualitatively different, by using military force, Cleveland crossed the Rubicon. There are lines in the sand, where if you cross them you are declaring yourself the enemy of the working class. He crossed such a line, and that one action is enough for me.

This seems similar to the argument I had about Truman only I am on the other side. However, in this case you seem to have conceded that Cleveland's action was the "biggest", or as I would say the "worst" which makes him a bigger a$$hole than the others.

[Lannes]

11. Carol Cleveland

[JVS]

12. Put that in the cleavage thread too

[RPM]

15. Nice!!!!

great dress too!

[Bunny]

16. Ma ma, where's my pa?

Gone to the White House, ha ha ha.

http://www.orange.k12.oh.us/teachers/ohs/TJordan/Pages/gclevelandscandal.html

[RPM]

17. forgot about that one

good reference!

[RPM]

19. kick

:kick: