Assuming I had the "goods" on a Freep or similar...

[benburch]

performing troll...

Supposing I developed information from some IP traces that indicate that this person works for an employer who would take dim view of their online activities...

Supposing I could destroy that person's life with a phone call.

Would it be ethical?

Should I do it?

[achtung_circus]

1. I'll say no.

If you are serious about the "destroy his life" part.

[benburch]

7. Yeah, he'd be toast...

and likely other legal ramifications for him.

[NoPasaran]

2. Do it to them before they do it to us.

[Madrone]

3. Well,

considering I saw someone here (can't remember their name) lose their job at a radio station because some idiot "reported" him for posting his political views on DU - I'd say no. But I can certainly appreciate the temptation.

[Catherine Vincent]

28. Yeah, I remember that.

A freeper did it. And the guy didn't bother to change his profile showing where he went to school and all. He posted that he didn't know the guy would lose his job. I think he felt real bad about it.

[MichiganVote]

4. No and oh....get real

[Rick Myers]

5. DO IT!

NOW!!!

I have been the victim of a cyberstalker for over 4 years and if I could drop him "clean" with proper evidence, I'd send him to room with Scott Peterson!!!

My 'perp' doesn't even have a job!

[amazona]

6. absolutely

They do it to us. Why do we hobble ourselves?

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Zuni]

8. do it

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. Simple question:

Would they do it to you?

Read Sun Tzu.

[benburch]

10. They have already tried several times.

But not this particular fellow.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. So?

Do you owe him anything?

You wouldn't have posted this if the problem was not estimable. If this person was not asking for it.

Sometimes, you have to give as good as you get.

[Maddy McCall]

39. The Art of War.

China's own machiavelli. Good reference, TS.

[AlienGirl]

11. It depends...

Are they doing anything inherently wrong, like stalking a DUer or doing things that might be actually dangerous? In that case, going for it would be more justified. If they're just being irritating and you're tempted to get rid of them because they're a bushbot, then turn the data over to the mods and they'll be banished from DU. Of course, if you're sneeeeaky you'd just watch them, wait for them to show you who their mole/troll buddies are, and get the whole nest of 'em banned!

Tucker

[MrMonk]

12. Do it, but only if the other person has been especially foul, or,

worse yet, indulged in personal abuse. If he's trashing his employer, explicitly or implicitly, do it without question.

I've done it several times on other boards, but only under extreme circumstances.

[madrchsod]

14. if the said person is using his employer`s computer

to do this then yes or if it is illegal yes, otherwise no.

[benburch]

16. Actually, more accurate to say he is using YOUR computer...

At least, you paid for it...

[merh]

18. Misuse of government equipment for political purposes?

Then yes, by all means. They have so many false persecutions and prosecutions going on all around the nation that are impairing the efforts of any party to reclaim our nation, if they are committing crimes, at our the expense of the tax payers, then they should be held accountable. Most definitely they should be stopped.

It is that simple.

[MrMonk]

19. "Gummint employee"? Cheney!? DO IT!

[merh]

44. Let me try to put this in perspective.

In the 70's Sen. Eastland was the strongest political force in the state of Miss and one of the strongest in the nation, being a senior senator. (He was no saint, but he was a dem.) He died and Senators Lott and Cochran decided they wanted to remove all of the Eastland power and appointments from office. The party targeted federal Judge Nixon. They were angry that he ruled the government must pay fair market price for some barrier islands south of MS and that he didn't rule in favor of the gov. (Though the USAttorney failed to present contrary evidence, they believed he was paid off and ruled for the land owners.) So a kooky old repuke businessman made accusations that Nixon was taking bribes. Nixon appeared before the grand jury investigating him and testified, not by subpoena, but by invitation. He was indicted for the bribery and for lying to the grand jury. At trial, he was acquitted of the big charge, accepting bribes, but was found guilty of the lying to the grand jury, the same body he appeared before and told the truth to as he knew it. He was later impeached and removed from office. So, a powerful dem appointee was removed from office in shame.

Then, during Reagan's term, there was the mismanagement of HUD monies by Deborah Gore Dean and her boss. They tried to blame that mismanagement or at least a portion of it on the mayor of the City of Biloxi, another powerful dem on the Coast and an shining star in state politics. He was expected to go places.

He was indicted for misappropriation of HUD funds and for using bond moneys to pay off his political friends. The first trial lasted 3 weeks and the jury came back deadlocked. The charges were subsequently dismissed. The second trial, outright acquittal after 10 weeks. But, the man's reputation was ruined and he was bankrupted. Why, because he was a favorite democratic politican with promise.

Now, move to Clinton in office. Plenty of repukes were suspected of crimes, the USofA was given plenty of links to investigate, but the dems in office used the thinking "but for the grace of god go I" and "I wouldn't want them to do it to me" and the investigations died.

Now, in the repuke regime they are again prosecuting folks for political reasons, stop the dems, stop the liberals because they are corrupt. That is their MO.

This purging of dems and take over of the repukes has been going on for better than 20 years. It didn't happen overnight. It has been calculated and ruthless.

We let them get away with their crimes, thinking that they will do the same for us. It is time to call them on their crimes, to hold them accountable, to not compromise and make exceptions. They don't make any exceptions for anyone that isn't in their camp.

If this person is misusing government property for political purposes (attacking- stalking bad dems/bad liberals) then he is committing a crime and should be held accountable.

The only way we can regain our nation is to hold them accountable for their crimes, each and every one of them, no matter how small, no matter how minor.

IMHO

[Left Is Write]

15. Would it be ethical? No. Should you do it? Not in my opinion.

[MrScorpio]

17. I can be a vindictive bastard

If I had the goods on a bonafide troll, his ass is grass and I'm the lawn mower.

That's just the Scorpio in me talking

[Zuni]

20. go for the gold!!!

[Mrs_Beastman]

21. Most employers already track where their employees are on the net

I have DU up while talking to my boss. I've noticed most of my other co workers using IM's or just playing games.

[swag]

22. I would say that you had better have ultimate goods on said person,

and even then you should think twice about taking the first train to Narcville. If you're willing to go this far against another person, I would suggest you not remain anonymous.

On second thought, I'd beseech you to take no action, unless the actions of your accused were bound to directly and adversely affect the well-being of another person.

[DS1]

23. Preach that Personal Responsibility

Make the call

[Lone_Star_Dem]

24. Is this person doing any real harm to anyone?

If they are not I suggest you view the issue from this perspective... This is just a message board and as such there will be trolls. For every one that retires, dies or finally gets a real life there's another to take it's place.

If they are somehow doing real life damage to someone that would be a different story. Even then I'd have to qualify if the damage deserved such an action.

[Catherine Vincent]

25. No you shouldn't. You're better than that.

Don't be a repuke.

[JimmyJazz]

26. Absolutely not. Seriously. This is a message board and the

discussions get heated, but are you SERIOUSLY considering ruining a person's livelyhood because they are a troll? Fer fux sakes, that's just indecent.

[LibraLiz1973]

27. I'm with you JimmyJazz. Seems over the top

Especially considering that you said this person never did anything to you.

[JimmyJazz]

30. I'm watching what someone is doing to one of our own right now and it

pains me. It's not like these people have ever met in real life - what is so horrible about having different political beliefs that one has to "destroy" another. This person may have small children at home to feed. What would having him fired accomplish?

I dunno. There's this thing called compassion. I believe in it.

[LibraLiz1973]

34. I'm a believer too.

In compassion & kharma. I'm not sure I could ever intentionally set out to get someone fired- unless they were cruel to animals, children, the elderly, were racist & homophobic. And it would have to be something tangible that I could feel comfortable ruining someones livelihood/life over.

[Zuni]

36. are you talking of

a badcat perhaps? A real vile piece of work that one is...

[JimmyJazz]

40. DING DING DING - Get this man a spliff!

[Melynn]

33. I'm with Ms. Jazz on this one

That's some bad karma you're flirting with if you destroy someone's life.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Dunno. Is this person dangerous? Would your act be on the

same level as what they have been up to?

Can you handle the karma of ruining someone else's life and perhaps heading down the road to being Karl Rove? (OK, that might be a bit extreme, but you know what I mean :) )

[benburch]

31. That is indeed the question.

This one isn't particularly worse than any of the other performing trolls. Not like I'd be taking down RimJob or anything.

Funny thing is if we were in a shooting civil war I could kill any number of them and never regret it. But until that happens, I am reluctant to violate the social contract in this manner even if I can.

[AlienGirl]

35. Wait for him to lead you to his troll-nest

Then turn the lot of 'em in and have them banned. Watch them cry at the babysite.

Tucker

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. I would say don't do it. You don't know what the ripples will be or what

innocent people would be hurt in the fallout.

[Maddy McCall]

32. If it's the one I think you are talking about.

I say hell fucking yeah. Do it.

[JimmyJazz]

50. Oh! You mean HIM! Really? It. Just. Got. Interesting.

If this person is trying to destroy one of our own, I say go for it. I thought you meant a regular/average freeper. My bad.

[Zuni]

52. Would I know who this is?

[Kingofalldems]

54. Clue please

Who is being destroyed?

[Zuni]

58. ralph wiggum

[LibraLiz1973]

37. Also.. why would you be running IP traces on people here?

Or am I misreading that?

[Maddy McCall]

41. Not on people here. He has no access to that.

[benburch]

43. Actually...

... to one who has his own servers, all things are possible.

All you need to do is host an image, and anybody who reads that posting tells you where he is...

The freeps have been doing that to us for years, BTW.

[Maddy McCall]

45. Hold on.

Please explain that a little better.

If I own a server and host that image on my server, you can see my IP?

[benburch]

47. No, you can see MINE.

If I view that image, a log entry goes to your logfile saying;

What page I was viewing at the time.

What IP address I was at.

What exact time of day it was.

[Maddy McCall]

48. Ooooh. Gotcha.

I need to learn more about the internet. :D

[benburch]

51. Yep, you do!

Privacy is one thing you don't really have here. Just the ILLUSION of privacy.

And the Internet never forgets ANYTHING.

[benburch]

46. I've reached my decision...

Nothing will be done with this information.

I think perhaps it may lead me to bigger fish to just wait and watch.

Thank you for your input.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. No

Karma

Someone would do it back at you.

[benburch]

55. Its been done to me several times...

But as I work for myself, their letters to try and get me fired come to ME.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I just don't like playing dirty

I like to outsmart rather than outmean.

[LoZoccolo]

49. Rather than ask "should I do it"...

...ask yourself "what would it do". Make a fair assessment. Will it bring us forward or back? I really don't know how to answer that, because I don't know the guy or what will happen. But I wouldn't do it just to do it, or because it makes you feel good. I've been coming to the conclusion that what feels good is not necessarily good strategy.

[benburch]

53. I agree.

I watch and wait.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

56. I wouldn't do it

think of it. his online life is one thing, but his livelihood os another. as much as I'd be tempted, I'd rather take the high road. karma's a bitch.

[Moderator]

59. Locking

This thread has reached a positive conclusion that is in keeping with DU rules (below). Please remember that DU does not endorse or support any activity by a member that threatens the livelihood of another member, or takes disagreements or feelings about another member offline.

From DU Rules:

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