Remember psychoexgirlfriend.com?

[LoZoccolo]

It's archived!

http://web.archive.org/web/20010405175508/www.psychoexgirlfriend.com/voicemails.html

[Mizmoon]

1. Does this seem like a "psychoexgirlfriend.com" kinda place to you?

Cause it isn't. :eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

3. Sure.

The reason no one has responded is because everyone's rapt in listening to them.

What's the matter, anyways?

[lukasahero]

23. Apparently you haven't been paying attention

Yes, this is a psychoexgirlfriend.com kind of place. As the response to this post would support.

(Just FYI, I would also like to have believed it was not. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.)

[Mizmoon]

25. So I have noticed

I expected more from Progressives. *sigh*

(on edit: Actually, reading the responses so far once again, DUers could have done worse. Could have done better, but could have done worse)

[LoZoccolo]

29. I guess I still don't understand...

...what's so unusual about ridiculing some manipulative behavior. We do it all the time to the Republicans and it helps us understand things about how people act and how to deal with it.

[Mizmoon]

33. Here's a list

1) It perpetuates the "hysterical woman" mythology.

2) It's an abusive invasion of her privacy, even if it's legal.

3) The fact that he posted this stuff makes me wonder about what other cruel things he did to her to make her so upset. Are listeners helping him to abuse her further?

4) This website could have driven her to suicide. It's heartless and thoughtless.

Would you approve of posting nekkid pics of an ex? How about posting their love letters? Posting their meltdowns is in the same catagory.

[benburch]

2. I wonder if he got sued?

In some states, it would have been quite illegal to share those voicemail messages like that.

[JanMichael]

4. I was wondering about that

That is one bizarre website.

[LoZoccolo]

6. I am not a lawyer, but...

...it's not like she didn't know she was being recorded. Her right to privacy may have been violated, but I would think these have serious journalistic value with regards to psycho ex behavior.

[benburch]

7. Maybe she simply shot him dead, then?

Doesn't seem all that far-fetched.

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. once you record your voice...

...you have no expectation of privacy.

[Book Lover]

12. Excuse me?

Is this your opinion or is it a state law where you are that voicemails you leave for someone are public?

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. In WA the law says

If you knowingly record your voice on an answering machine, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Similar law in OK ...

If you are made aware you are being recorded and allow the recording to take place, you have waived your right to privacy as far as that recording is concerned. Whoever makes the recording owns it and can do with it whatever he or she pleases.

[Book Lover]

24. I am appalled

and disgusted. There goes me leaving messages for anyone anymore. What a shitty country.

[RoyGBiv]

34. Look at it this way ...

When people are in your house and say things, do you feel you are required to keep everything they say a secret?

Or, suppose someone calls your house when you aren't home and starts leaving a series of obscene messages on your machine, and you want to stop it. Unless you can use that recording, you actually have no proof the calls are obscene. This is in fact the kind of reasoning behind these laws.

OnEdit: I'm not defending this guy. I was actually in a situation in which I've been essentially stalked, so I understand the compulsion to do immature things. But, I never did them. Others who suggest that his willingness to do this might suggest some things about the problems in their relationship probably have a point.

[Book Lover]

35. Yes, when people are in my home

they have been invited and are friends, I expect everything of a confidential nature to stay that way. Maybe I have different expectation of my friends than the law thinks I ought.

And the way to work around breaking the privacy of a voicemail is for a judge to issue a warrant for the release of the obscene messages to the cops/court rather than the blanket removal of the privacy expectation. Guess I oughtta write to my congressman if I want that changed :sarcasm:

I apologize for my harsh tone, and I suppose I am foolish to be so naive, but this whole thing is a caraway seed under my bridgework.

[RoyGBiv]

37. Your tone is fine ...

The context provided by this particular case makes it a bit extreme and thus prone to encourage extreme feelings. I understand that. This website is humiliating, and the girl might actually have a case regarding being characterized as "psycho," but the recordings themselves are another matter.

That said, I think you've set a standard here that perhaps no one but yourself could possibly reach. This subset of this thread isn't about expectations; it's about what's legal, what's not, and by extension what should be legal or not. To take my first example to an extreme, suppose I'm your friend and that I visit your house and tell you I'm making soup for dinner. Then suppose you write in your blog that night and mention you were talking with Roy, who mentioned he was having soup, which leads into your own discussion of what soups you like. Should I be able to sue you because of this? If you say yes, I'm sorry, but I find that absurd. If not, then you're talking about having different standards based on subjective opinion of what is and is not allowable for discussion outside a private conversation between two people not bound by any other legal inhibition, such as a non-disclosure agreement.

And this leads into your next suggestion about getting a warrant. On what grounds? If all you have is the call recorded on your answering machine, and if the speech on that call is protected by a blanket right of privacy belonging to the one who made the call, you have no grounds. You have to let *someone* listen to it before a reasonable standard of suspicion exists, and that breaks this theoretical standard of privacy you seem to be setting. On the other side of this same coin, if you can just ask the cops or a judge for a warrant to release the tape without first disclosing the content of the tape, you could easily get anything disclosed simply by claiming it should be. Another possibility would be creating an intermediary government agency to determine what constitutes private and non-private conversations, which of course would be based on the content and context, and this might require an actual trial before a determination could be made.

For example, say someone calls my house and leaves a message one a week saying, simply, "I like shoes," and hangs up. No big deal, just a bit obnoxious. But suppose I suspect the person leaving this message is a sexual predator with a foot fetish. "I like shoes" is nothing overtly harmful, but it could be. How do you judge, and for our purposes here, at what point does the person's private comment on *my* answering machine cross a line at which any intermediary judge would determine the content could be released into the public record, i.e. allowing me to file harassment charges? In effect, the standard you seem to want places yet another road block in the way of preventing harassment and abuse. Are you aware, for instance, that this "no expectation of privacy" is often invoked to convict men who threaten to kill their wives or girlfriends? Why require a hearing before that can be taken to the police. A woman should simply be able to pop that sucker out of the player and broadcast it anywhere she likes.

Other ramifications exist, but I hope you get my point to some extent. As noted, reasons exist for these laws, and they tend to be rather good ones.

The bottom line, to me, is this. If you don't want your thoughts to be made public, don't let someone record what you're saying, and never use a phone line to share private information. A more controversial aspect of some of these laws is that in some states only one party to a conversations has to be aware that conversation is being recorded for the owner of that recording to do with it as he or she pleases. I had to use this tactic myself in an unemployment case. I had a conversation with an ex-boss in which she admitted to telling racist and sexist jokes despite my repeated objections. She never knew she was being recorded, but without me doing it, she would have been able to paint me as the fool and get away with committing a crime.

I'll shut up now. I understand your outrage in this particular case. I just don't think a legal remedy, as far as the recordings are concerned, is the way to go with this.

[warrens]

27. I don't think so

There's no expectation of privacy when you leave a voicemail.

[donco6]

5. I think after the first 2 or 3 of those. . .

it would be time for a new cell phone.

Seriously.

[alittlelark]

8. She is one SCARY person!

I've never seen that site. WOW!

[d_b]

9. Those voicemails are great.

I could listen to that psycho all day :rofl:

[Book Lover]

11. I hope her lawyer ground him into paste

I haven't come across this until now. How can it be that I am still appalled at some of the shit I see online...

[Droopy]

15. You know

I didn't really think much of it when I first listened to the recordings, but your post has got me thinking. I know I wouldn't want somebody blasting my private phone calls all around the world. Even though it sounds as if the woman needs professional help that doesn't mean you can just share her private thoughts with everybody. But it looks as if the boyfriend has retained their anonymity so that may be why he hasn't gotten his ass ground into the dirt yet and the web site removed.

[aeolian]

28. Yeah, 'cause if there's anything that guy needed,

it's more shit from his ex.

[Book Lover]

36. Tough fuck

The problem with revenge is the neverending cycle... he wants revenge, he maybe ought to do it in a way that doesn't make people rise to her defense.

[Placebo]

13. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

It's funny...but at the same time it's reeeally depressing.

Ugh, the things we put ourselves (and others) through.

[VOX]

14. I feel sorry for her. We're only given his opinion: "She's psycho."

And, yes, maybe she needed/needs professional help. But we have absolutely NO idea of how he actually treated her -- and you can hear the frustration in her voice -- she is in genuine pain. There's no recorded document of him attempting to communicate with her, so we have no fair concept of the dynamic of this relationship. Should his point of view be believed just on faith?

Who hasn't gone through some sort of obsessive craziness, even just once, out of love? The extreme emotion in that young woman's voice, whether born of obsession or of genuine distress, is not the stuff of public entertainment.

Not to be a killjoy, but IMO, it was pretty shitty of this guy to have put this up on the Net for general consumption.

[Droopy]

16. Good points

I know I've made some pretty crazy phone calls in the past and I would hate it if somebody decided to broadcast them all across the world.

[ChoralScholar]

20. I can sympathize with him, as I had a psycho hose beast of my own

but, yea, probably not for the unwashed masses to enjoy....

[Samurai_Writer]

17. Man that was like watching a train wreck...

I tried not to listen to them all, but I just couldn't help myself!

It also has reaffirmed my stance of staying single. FOREVER.

Peace,
Bella

[orleans]

21. what a weird site

i've listened to three of them--the first two and the last one.

i would think that it wouldn't be against the law because she was knowingly recording her voice on his answering machine.

but the anonymity isn't one hundred percent. we know (or can assume) his name is mark and he states on his webpage that her name is jill.

it's a bit creepy.

[LoZoccolo]

22. Kick!

I wanna hear some peoples' stories about psycho exes!

[dr.strangelove]

30. I've got a one. It was scary, but turned out fine.

It has a happy ending, so I don't mind sharing it.

When I was in college I dated a girl for a few months. She was a few years older than me and wanted a more serious relationship than I did. When I realized that she was looking for a lifetime commitment, I told her that I was not at a place in my life where I wanted that type of relationship. She asked if we could stay together to make it work and I mistakenly agreed. Just a week or so later she started to bring up marriage and children again. I told her that it was not working out and I ended it.

We had similar friends and remained in contact, though we never dated or had any close contact again. (Mostly we saw each other at the bar I worked at and at some parties with common friends.) Six months later my wife and I started dating. At first we had a few childish pranks pulled on us, like my wife's car was egged and there was some nasty notes left on the car calling her a whore. We did not know who it was until one of the girl's friends told me and that she was trying to take care of it. It got worse though.

She slashed all four of my tires and one of my wife's tires. Then when I got all four tires replaced, she did the same thing and left me a message (a piece of lingerie I had given her was shredded around the car). Then she started leaving notes and woman's underwear on my wife's car and suggested I was cheating on my wife (which I was not). Finally, while my wife and I were in my place sleeping, she broke in using a key she had made without my knowledge and spray painted the walls in my living room, calling me and my wife diseased whores. Fearing for all of our safety I called her brother, who I knew from the bar, and had him come over. He explained that it had happened before and apologized. He went right to her house and she had spray paint on her hand matching the paint on my walls. He took her home to her parents. I later met up with him and he was very straight with me. He told me she had gotten very jealous with two other guys before me and was once arrested for breaking and entering a high school guys house.

I understand she got some help after this and was diagnosed with some type of associative disorder, for which she has been, and is presumably still being, treated. She got married a year or so ago and I hear is doing very well.

It was a very scary time to live through. However, it made my wife and I closer and wound up getting her help. I still see her brother every so often and I always ask about her. She is doing very well and is happy. So it was a happy ending for all of us. There probably was a time when I would have posted on the internet messages she left on on my answering machine (though this was probably before I got my first answering machine and was certainly before the internet was very popular). I'm glad I never did that. My anger passed quickly and my compassion for her took over. I am glad she got help and I continue to wish her the best. I wish this guy did the same thing and never left this crap on the internet for all to see/hear.

[tk2kewl]

26. Sad

:(

[bleedingheart]

31. Who would want to date him after he did this

Clearly this is a fellow who felt the need to be vindictive and publish his voice mails to make himself feel better...

I have met many men who have turned women into psychos and vice versa.

There are genuine psychos out there but a lot of normal people get into relationships with people who just like to mess with their heads.

This guy frames the debate from his perspective but who is to know what the hell he did to her to make her so sad and mad.

I think it is terribly juvenile for "adults" to air their personal relationship problems this way.

[LoZoccolo]

32. You know how they show those bloody accident movies in driver's ed?

This is like, kind-of the same thing. It serves a cautionary educational purpose for the community.