Are predators more intelligent than prey?

[Jara sang]

I say no. The predators victims are usually sick or old and feeble and it has very little to do with intelligence. The greatest factor I think would be sheer brute strength. My friend says it has more to do with intelligence. What do you think?

[RebelOne]

1. Well, look at it this way.

Even the dumbest of human hunters are more intelligent than the animals they kill.

[Jara sang]

2. I don't agree with you on that.

[salvorhardin]

3. Define intelligence.

If you mean the general factor 'g', then no, not necessarily. However, binocular vision, spatial hearing, the ability to swing through trees, etc. are all forms of intelligence. Instincts are intelligence that we learned evolutionarily.

[DS1]

4. Only when a crocodile watches a Bush Press Conference

[SOteric]

15. I dunno. I get the feeling that

Steve Irwin guy isn't too bright either.

[DS1]

16. I was thinking about him when I posted that

but I'm sure that Steve Irwin, despite being a moron most of the time, has more cognitive ability than your typical croc.

Unless a croc finally eats his baby, snatched out of his arms; that would make him dumber than a crocking croc

[sundog]

5. no

imho

[DrDebug]

6. I disagree with you on that

In general predators are among the most intelligent animals and the prey are not. The need to rely on their intelligence to be able to capture their prey so it's essential for them as well. Many spiders have been known to use strategy as well.

[kenny blankenship]

7. You can say no if you like but

in general science takes the other position. Predators devote a greater proportion of their body mass to their brains. It takes a protein rich diet to grow that big brain too. Predators aren't predators because they're intelligent, which seems to be the idea you're reacting to, but they're intelligent compared to their prey species because they've evolved to be able to anticipate and react quickly to what the prey animals do. It takes much more compute power to stalk and chase down a gazelle than it takes to stalk a blade of grass.

[Jara sang]

8. So you are saying that cougars are more intelligent than humans.

Many humans still fall victim to cougars in the mountains around Southern California. Humans are killed by cougars all the time. They are more intelligent than us? What about sharks?

[DrDebug]

11. Most large predators would rather avoid human beings than attack

We are not prey. And it's about the average prey for a versus the average predator. Mice vs. cats; Deer vs. wolves etc.

And human beings have the characteristics of predators as well. Even though we don't have claws and sharp teeth, we heavily rely on predator insticts and it was made us succesful. The moment we started to get off fruit and expand our diet is when we had more time and could do more.

[Jara sang]

19. Yes we are prey.

Bears often eat humans. Sharks often eat humans. Tigers often eat humans, just because that doesn't gist with your thoughts on evolution doesn't deny the fact that there are animals that prey upon humans.

[DrDebug]

20. Actually they prefer to avoid us

Bears and tigers usually go out of our way. The exception is sharks and crocodiles. Bears and tigers will keep a distance from humans and only attack when provoked or when they are very hungry and dangerous.

There aren't that many animals which prey on humans, ie. think that humans are part of their natural diet. We are part of the top of the food chain and historically as well.

It is because of our intelligence that we opted to become preditators ourself, so your statement works the other way around. Even though we are designed for a diet mainly consisting of fruit and plants, our intelligence made us preditators and that was a basic evolutionary step forwards.

[Jara sang]

21. What are you talking about?

Works the other way around? You said:In general predators are among the most intelligent animals and the prey are not You put the "in general" caveat in there but what you are saying is that the predator is more intelligent than the prey, I gave you instances where man is preyed upon by other animals. By your logic sharks are more intelligent than humans. By the way have you found a way to measure intelligence in other sentient beings, I'd sure like to know how that is done.

[DrDebug]

22. Humans are an example fo the other way around

Works the other way around?
Yes, humans choose predator behavior. We are an example of the other way around. Unlike animals which are build like predators, we opted for that behaviour by using and inventing weapons. It was our intelligence which made us predators, because it was a cheaper and more effective method of getting food and leaving us with more time for other things. And after farming was invented we stopped being predators once again, because that was an even more effective method of ensuring food.

In general
In general means that it applies to most but not all. Only sharks and crocodiles have such an immense body strength and superb design that they don't need much intelligence. That's also the reason why those animals haven't evolved very much either. Additions like increased intelligence aren't really necessary for those animals.

By your logic sharks are more intelligent than humans
You are twisting my words around. I never said nor implied that. That's a false conclusion by faulty logic.

By the way have you found a way to measure intelligence in other sentient beings
I don't know what you are trying to do here, because it seems like you want to proof your own statement only by disqualifying the statements of others and using false logic as well.
Anyway intelligence can be measured by things like problem solving, learning ability, learning retention. And that method can be applied to animals as well.

[mike_c]

12. you're taking the term "intelligence" out of context....

Sticking with your example, yes-- in those situations the prey (humans) acted unintelligently within the context of a predator-prey relationship with cougars or sharks. One could certainly argue that mimicing a sea lion in great white shark infested water is not a supremely intelligent act.

In reality it's a poor argument, because humans are not really prey for cougars or sharks except in a rare, opportunistic sense. Cougars do in fact have significantly larger brain mass than most of their usual prey, and since intelligence is correlated with brain mass, the inferrence that they're more intelligent than their prey is not unreasonable, but it is not necessarily proved by that circumstance alone. (on edit-- sharks might seem to prove the exception-- they're very primitive, but highly evolved predators that-- at least in some instances-- routinely take prey that are more intelligent, e.g. pinnipeds.)

We readily speak of predators "outwitting" their prey with good reason-- predators must overcome prey attempts to be non-apparent and other escape strategies.

Another dimension to this question has to do with the type of intelligence you're referring to. Vertebrate predators usually exhibit considerable behavioral plasticity-- they learn from experience. Invertebrate predators often rely to a much greater degree upon innate behaviors shaped by evolution. We often regard the former as being "more intelligent," but that's a mistake. It's all a matter of context. But that's straying from your original question, so I'll refrain from going there.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

13. Yes

At the moment a cougar manages to kill a human, the cougar is clearly smarter. This applies to one cougar and one human.

[El Fuego]

9. In terms of evolution...

Prey animals often protect themselves by herding since there is safety in numbers. It doesn't take that much intelligence to get into a herd. Predators, on the other hand, evolve to have greater intelligence because they have to use skill and cunning, and sometimes even teamwork, to catch the herd animals.

[mike_c]

10. one little nit-pick....

OK, maybe a big nit pick. Your statement that "predators victims are usually sick or old and feeble" is perhaps true for vertebrate predators that attack exclusively large prey, e.g. lions attacking gazelles. It doesn't apply to most other predators, such as predaceous insects and spiders, for example, or to vertebrates who routinely take prey much smaller than themselves, e.g. whales feeding on krill. That last example is pretty extreme, but my point is that most predators-- and you don't usually see most of them on Animal Kingdom-- are not constrained to working the margins of prey herds.

[MrSandman]

14. Instincts...

When the instincts are not strong enough or the body os not strong enough, both the individual prey or predator will be eliminated. This promotes the health of the herd/group and improve the gene pool of the species.

[Baclava]

17. "Humans are tasty"

Our day will come...stupid earthlings.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. I think on average they probablty are, at least among mammals.

Big cats, and certainly canines, are brighter than most of the big herbivorous quadrupeds. Weasels and other mustelids are brighter than rabbits. Primates are the most intelligent, of course, and mostly eat plants, but a lot of them eat some meat as well.

The brightest birds are corvids (mostly scavengers and predators, I think, although I'm not sure). Vegetarian parrots are also quite clever, though, I believe.

The brightest species tend to be omnivores, though, I think, and of course there is no even remotely hard-and-fast rule.