Today I was on the bus. An elderly lady was standing.

[valis]

I did not ask her if she wanted to sit because I was very tired. Am I a bad person??? I was not sitting at one of those reserved seats...

[Jessica]

1. You're not a bad person ...

simply because you're still thinking about it & obviously regretting it ... ? Bad people don't even give things like this a second thought. :)

[Left Is Write]

2. I'm not qualified to judge whether or not you are a "bad person"

based on a single incident.

I will tell you, though, that regardless of how tired I was, I would offer my seat to any elderly person who did not have one.

[progmom]

5. you took the words right out of my mouth

:hi:

[Shell Beau]

8. Yeah, what you said!

[LostinVA]

87. Ditto

[ronnykmarshall]

24. I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down.

I'd do the same.

One time I was on the subway in SF and this little shit teenaged asshole just sat there on his butt and didn't give up his seat for this elderly man. TWICE this guy almost fell when the train jerked, I basically caught the guy (I was standing behind him).

Finally the little bastard got off the train and the old guy could had a seat.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

32. In Boston we generally tell the little asshole to get off his butt

even if he's wearing gang colors. Honestly, I don't get kids nowadays, and i'm not that old.

[ronnykmarshall]

36. We can't do that in San Francisco.

1. We'd form a committee to discuss the mental impact to child to having to lose his seat.

2. Elect a chairperson to speak with the child.

3. Re-group and vote on the agreed action follow a report on the child's social, political, ethnic and medical background.

4. Get off the train since we've now fucked away all time and kid and the old goat are now off the train.

[democracyindanger]

62. There are those

who think you're joking. But little do they know.

[ronnykmarshall]

81. Ain't that the truth?

[Arugula Latte]

95. Random memory

When I was a kid growing up in the Bay Area in the 70s, BART opened to much hoopla. I was sooooo disappointed on my first ride "under" the bay -- I was expecting a clear tunnel that would allow us to view the fish!

[Lerkfish]

3. when I was recuperating from gall bladder surgery recently,

my wife took me out to eat. I had the old fashioned kind of gall bladder surgery, with the 11 inch scar.
anyways, It really hurt for me to stand for any length of time, and it hurt to get up or down, so while we were waiting for a table, I was sitting on one of those waiting benches by the hostess, my wife and son were standing, and the bench was crowded.
In came an elderly (not infirm) woman who kept glaring at me, I suppose expecting me to stand and let her sit, or maybe to let my wife sit, I dunno.
It was awkward because I didn't feel like explaining my medical condition to a complete stranger.

[Love Bug]

16. Sorry to hear that about your GB surgery

I had my gb removed a month ago and I had the lapriscopic surgery. I was amazed how quickly I felt pretty normal -- like a week. Sorry you had to endure the "old fashioned" surgery for this.

[MountainLaurel]

17. Another GB removal here

I felt pretty tolerable after a week, though I was fatigued and achey. (I went back to work 6 days after my surgery.) However, part of that had to do with pollen season erupting and my allergies going haywire.

[Lerkfish]

52. they tried lapro first but because of massive scar tissue in my abdomen

from old surgery to remove all my lymph nodes when I had cancer, they found out they couldn't get past the scar tissue to remove the gall bladder (oops!) in fact, they had to make an even larger old fashioned incision than usual, because the adhesions from the lymphectomy hampered them getting it out.

not a lot of fun.

I'm glad you guys could get the lapro!
I was laid up for 3 weeks, and it was six weeks before the incision completely healed due to an infection.

[nini]

4. It would have been a decent thing to do..

but I don't think it makes you 'bad'. If you were 'bad' you wouldn't even be posting this as you obviously think you should have or it wouldn't be on your mind.

Let yourself off the hook and do it next time if the opportunity arises again.

[Hugin]

6. To me...

It depends on if the person looks to be needing a seat.

If they are fine and in better shape at the moment than
you are I'd say it's okay.

Triage, I think it's called.

[valis]

7. Good point. She did not seem like she was looking around and I

ignored her... She did not have heavy bags and she was not bent over or anything... Damnit, next time I'll ask so I don't have to obsess about it...

[ronnykmarshall]

29. Oh my god, I know that woman!!

She later collapsed in the street when she got off the bus because she got a horrible leg cramp from standing. Then the bus driver ran her over because he didn't see her.

Poor thing. She was on her way to visit her grand-daughter at the hospital. She was about to become a great-grandmother. Shame she never got to hospital on time. Her grand-daughter was so upset that she went into shock during labor and the baby had to be delivered by C-section. The doctors tried, but the baby died. The grand-daughter is in a coma and is brain dead.

Don't feel bad.

Did I mention the old woman also read to blind kids?

[progmom]

34. i love you ronnykmarshall

i love you ronnykmarshall

[sniffa]

35. pffft

:rofl: :rofl:

:loveya:

[jonnyblitz]

43. really?

:wow: sad story.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

41. There's been a lot of these type posts lately

Ego stroking type posts, looking for attention, and people jump right in and begin stroking...

You are most correct, "ACTING on those intentions" is the key.

Faith without works is dead... (or something like that...)

RL

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. Wow...you can diagnose them like that?

You can know of they have osteoarthritis or some other malady just by looking at them?

To me..being tired isn't an excuse for being rude.

[Hugin]

79. Aren't there rules about following someone around here at DU?

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. The fact that you are asking makes me wonder if _you_ think you are a bad

person because of it. Do you?

[valis]

10. Well, it's the way I was brought up...

Yes, that would make me a bad person because at the time I knew I should ask and did not, basically out of selfishness... I mean, I can rationalize and say she did not seem to need it etc, but how can I be sure I'm not just try to deny things?...

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. You can't go back and have a do-over, so since you now know

that this bothers you, next time you are on the bus you can go out of your way to find someone to give your seat up for and repair the Karmic breach. :) *hugs*

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

12. A classmate (former, I guess now!) blogged about this very thing

He agonized to himself over whether to offer his seat to an elderly lady who looked very fit and was wearing sneakers. He wondered what the proper etiquette was if the elderly person looks anything but decrepit. He finally didn't offer, but kicked himself for it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

13. I have finally come to the realization that I needn't bother trying to sit

on the train or the bus on my way to or from work.

I always end up feeling guilty about it even if I'm really tired or ill.

Even when there are some empty seats, I feel like everyone over 30 is glaring at me.

So I just stand now.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

14. My personal experience

When I had foot surgery and I was already walking on my own, albeit in pain and haphazardly, I had a few older people look at me in strange ways when I was sitting down. I didn't feel that I was either (a) bad or (b) in need to explain my circumstances to anyone.

I don't think that you did the wrong thing.

[TX-RAT]

15. My 2 cents

If a women is standing, i give up my seat, if a women is going through the door, i open it for her, if she's fixing to sit down, I'll pull her chair out for her. If she's bitching because i played poker last night, she can fix her own damn coffee in the morning.

Not really Baby, just in case she watching.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. Were you raised by wolves?

you certainly weren't raised in Boston, that's for sure. :eyes:

[valis]

20. No, wasn't... Been in Boston for less than 10 years, in fact...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

21. That pretty much explains why you don't have subway etiquette down

I'm assuming you're male? Were you taught common courtesy?

On edit: why do you ALWAYS post threads like this? do you enjoy getting flamed?

[Gormy Cuss]

27. On the Red line

It was so rare that someone did not leap up to offer the seat that those with hidden infirmities like an earlier poster would sheepishly attempt to explain themselves. My favorite moments were when the rickety old guys would offer up their seats to pregnant women.

I did see people ignoring the seat rules on Saturdays, Red Sox nights, and other times when the irregulars showed up. Usually teens or young males in business suits, but it was still a pretty rare event.

Boston is filled with opinionated in-your-face people who also understand that common courtesies are expected.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. Exactly. it's the blow ins and college students who are the rudest.

Us natives understand subway etiquette. Driving on the other hand...

[valis]

78. ALWAYS? Why should I be flamed? .... It's a neutral thread...

[Magrittes Pipe]

19. How DARE you not offer my girlfriend a seat!

:grr:

[DS1]

22. Yes

[youthere]

23. It's bugging you so you aren't bad.

It's not like said "YAH!Stand there you wrinkled old BIYATCH!" Just a selfish lapse. We all have 'em. Just do better next time. :hug:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

30. If it bugged him at the time, he should have given up his seat

no respect for his elders. Gimme a break.

[youthere]

55. He didn't say it bugged him at the time.

and people make mistakes.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

59. It goes back to my original point of being raised by wolves

anyone with any common courtesy would give an old lady their seat. Whether she looked infirm or not. Coddling someone because they have no manners is not the answer.

[fishnfla]

25. Such a shame

This is a no-brainer.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

33. you seemed to have judged yourseLf aLready

i never sit because i assume that someone wiLL aLways be more tired than myseLf.

and, i don't Like strange peopLe touching me. :P

[tjwmason]

80. Really?

I thought that having strange people touch you was how you spent your entire life.

[Parche]

37. sit

if she was a republican you did the right thing!!!

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progmom]

44. .

:eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

45. not surprising, eh?

:boring:

[RetroLounge]

48. Why on earth does common courtesy not extend

to them? My parents taught me better. Too bad for you...

RL

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dastard Stepchild]

40. I've done this when very ill, or suffering a major headache...

But otherwise, I do offer the seat. If I cannot physically stand without falling over, then I don't offer. If I am fully capable of standing, even if tired, then I usually just stand anyways.

[WindRavenX]

42. If an older person, or a mom with kids, comes on the train...

...and you don't give your seat up to them, yes, you're an asshole.
You give urban citizens a bad name. And I'm DEAD serious. New Yorkers, Bostonians, Seattle-ites, whatever, YOU GIVE UP YOUR SEAT.
Honest to god.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solly Mack]

49. Do you even have to ask? Seriously.

It's just plain rude not to offer elderly people your seat.

[DS1]

51. This thread makes me

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh man, there's a freakin Pile-on, AND a pile of deleted messages in a public transportation etiquette thread.

HILARIOUS - my faith in DU has been restored, for about 5 minutes

[Kathy in Cambridge]

58. If they can't act freakin' civilized on the "T"

there is no hope...

[valis]

77. what the heck are all these deleted messages?

Why are you flaming me? :P

[foreigncorrespondent]

53. Yes it does.

There is no reason in the world for you to not give up your seat for the elderly. And I really don't care how tired you were. This woman has lived a lot longer than you, but you decided to just ignore her (obviously to try and alleviate the guilt you were feeling) and just keep her standing there.

Just think how you would feel if some younger person didn't give their seat up to your grandma. You would probably be outraged.

Now you come here and post about it, why? So you can be justified in your actions, to help eliminate the guilt you are dealing with?

In my job, you bet I get damn tired. I am on my feet anywhere from 6 to 11 hours a shift. And you bet, if I was to catch public transport home and an elderly person had no seat, I would give mine up.

So yes, your actions really do make you a bad person. At first, I wasn't going to say that it made you a bad person, but when I read further and saw that you deliberately ignored her, well you changed my mind. Well done!

[NorthernSpy]

54. what are you going to do the next time you face this situation?

That's the important question. You were selfish today, but you needn't be selfish tomorrow.

Oh, and to answer your question: everyone is a bad person. Everyone is guilty of something. Even the ones who have (rightly) criticized you today.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

56. I always ask...

I was taught to do so and, at 45, I still will ask an elderly person, pregnant woman, or someone with infants/packages if they would like to sit, no matter how I am feeling.

Now, just because I ask doesn't mean they always take the offer. I've offered my seat to seniors who have politely refused -- obviously they felt able enough to handle the ride on their feet. That way, I've never been left to wonder if I did the right thing.

Always ask if you are physically able to sacrifice a seat.

[Telly Savalas]

57. You should have asked for documentation proving she was a U.S. citizen...

and only then yielded your claim to the seat. If she was an illegal she had no right to that seat much less breathing the air on an 'Merican bus. It's time Democrats take a bold stand against the invasion of illegal immigrants and public transportation is as good as any place to start. In fact, it's about time the spineless Democrats propose measures that would require riders to demonstrate proof of U.S. citizenship before getting on a bus.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

60. Damn straight! And don't forget to call homeland security!

[Elidor]

61. I've been there

If I'm not exhausted, I have a tendency toward chivalry, but if I'm dog-tired, granny gets to stand.

[WindRavenX]

63. It's not about chivalry

It's freakin' common courtesy. I don't care if I can barely stand- the old people and moms with kids get my seat.

[Divameow77]

100. Just because a woman has children you think she should get to

sit? She made the choice to have kids.

Now when a person doesn't hold the door open for me when I'm pushing a stroller, that gets me heated.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

103. Have you ever tried to balance with children on a subway?

I don't have kids, nor do I want them, but I give up my seat to women who are contending with toddlers.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Elidor]

66. A guy can't even joke around in the Lounge anymore

Everything is SERIOUS.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

68. Normally I clown around, but the OP isn't joking

even if you are. :-)

[Elidor]

70. I'll take the position that I'm not kidding

Let the PC police get down.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[valis]

82. No problem with me. I can use a good laugh...

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

65. How old are you?

That's all that matters.

Everyone's tired. But not everyone is an old person.

[valis]

83. Too young to be tired. But I haven't been sleeping well lately...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

85. Then, you are damned to eternal hellfire for what you did

Well, not really, but I do believe in old-fashioned chivalry and good manners, and if you were bothered - as you so obviously were - by what you did, then I'd say you're blessed with an abundance of both.

We all make mistakes, but this is one you don't ever have to make again.

Ain't life simple?

(I'm old enough to be that old lady, by the way.)

[Scooter24]

69. I don't think your a bad person...

We all make simple mistakes sometimes, but generally the courtesy rule is to offer your seat if you suspect that someone standing might be in need.

I have been in a similar incident several times. Recently, I was on a train going into Chicago and needed to get some important work finished on my laptop. So I sat down and just went to work, completely oblivious as to who was standing around me. It wasn't until I was about to get off when I noticed an elderly woman standing nearby. I did feel bad about it, but in retrospect, I needed to finish my work as well.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

71. "I needed to finish my work as well"

well, that excuses you from common courtesy then. :sarcasm:

[NorthernSpy]

73. disagree a bit...

The poster said that he hadn't noticed the elderly woman until he was nearly at his stop. He wasn't deliberately refusing her a chance to sit down.

[Scooter24]

75. Kathy

It really doesn't happen that often, but when it does, it's because the situation usually warrants it. When my clients are spending $50,000-$100,000+ on a wedding or corporate party, every minute is extremely important when I am working to meet deadlines. I don't like being rude at all, and under normal circumstances I take a cab, or limo it across town. However, when a situation arises where I need to get on a subway or train and have important things that need to be done, then if that means that I have to break a common courtesy rule, then so be it. I don't make a habit of it though.

[Bridget Burke]

86. Courtesy does not apply to IMPORTANT people!

Please use the Limo more often so there will be more room for the peasants.

[bleedingheart]

74. Once an elderly man gave me his seat when I was pregnant

it was so chivalrous....

My husband and I were at Disney with our 2 year old...I was hot and tired and 6.5 mos pregnant.

None of the healthier/younger people offered me a seat and I was prepared to stand, but this elderly man stood up and kindly told me to take his place next to "his gal" and I did...she and I had a nice chat and I thanked him profusely..

[Jean Louise Finch]

76. One of my favorite things about Bangkok

Is the fact that on the skytrain, bus or subway, EVERYONE leaps out of their seat if an elderly person gets on (or a pregnant woman or someone with kids). It's incredible. There's not even a question, and if you stay put, you get daggers thrown your way by everyone else in the carriage. It's just absolutely standard behavior, and everyone, regardless of age, status or their own tiredness, knows what's expected. You almost have to fight with the other passengers to make sure it's YOUR seat that they take.

You should absolutely have gotten up. It's just rude not to.

[newfaceinhell]

84. dunno

even if it was my place to judge you, how could i do so on the basis of one incident?

[name not needed]

88. I can honestly say this is one of the dumbest flamewars I can remember.

[JohnKleeb]

89. NO its not! youre a DLC Neocon Trotskyist Nazish thing

:D

[name not needed]

90. STOP MAKING FUN OF ME!!!!!

I'LL LEAVE IF YOU DON'T THROW ROSES AT MY FEET AND WIPE MY ASS FROM NOW ON! AND I'M NOT LYING EITHER!!!!!!

[JohnKleeb]

91. Would you like me to throw venus fly traps at your feet?

[name not needed]

92. THAT'S IT! I'M LEAVING!!!!

YOU GOT YOUR WISH. YOU'LL NEVER SEE ME ON HERE AGAIN!1

[JohnKleeb]

93. but what if I buy tou an edible woody allen bar?

[name not needed]

94. WAAAAAAAAAAH YOURE MEAN

[JohnKleeb]

96. Fine Kirstie Alley ala mode?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

97. Ruh-roh

:nuke: :nuke:

[name not needed]

98. BE NICE TO ME

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[JohnKleeb]

99. What?

Perhaps a bit of Cheers will Cheer ya up.

[name not needed]

101. BOW TO ME, OR I SHALL DESTROY YOU

[JohnKleeb]

102. Them Belly Full but we hungry

Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na;
Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na;
Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na;
Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.