how do we know anything is real?

[mark414]

and does anything matter?

what is the difference between dying tomorrow and dying in two years?

what are thoughts made of?

how do i know that i am not just a brain in a vat?

cogito, ergo sum?

why do i keep driving myself crazy with all these questions?

[Bok_Tukalo]

1. Cogito, ergo es

<ope>

[jobycom]

4. I jammed my toe into a barbell in the dark three nights ago

I believe in that barbell with all my heart, now.

[hfojvt]

17. toejam football is best played with the lights on

Eschew the darkness, it will not hide your evil deeds. Marvin can see by infrared. How I hate the night.

[phusion]

2. We are...

Everything and nothing.

Everywhere and nowhere.

Every and no.

E & n.

We are.


:shrug:

[WindRavenX]

3. The only things we have are the things we feel.

I remember kisses that were tainted with smoke.
I remember his eyes were the color of a storm churned sea.
I remember the light that made the snow shimmer like diamonds.
And I remember his scream.

[fishwax]

5. ohhhh ... we don't ... i need another drink

:toast:

[GirlinContempt]

6. For something to exist

it has to matter. It's counterpointing something, balancing something. Or holding something together. And so, it inherently 'matters'.

[jonnyblitz]

7. shit is getting deep. time to crash.

:P

[mark414]

11. time to crash indeed

night everyone

p.s. jonny...that sleeve is SICK, can't wait to see the rest

[autorank]

8. Thanks for the fish!

[alittlelark]

9. We don't... so live your life as though ALL you do

effects/affects others. That way you will do just fine.

[leftofthedial]

10. how do we know if it matters or not?

[Az]

12. We cannot know such a thing

We can only take the universe before us as we percieve it. If at some time we percieve some evidence that things are not as they seem we incorporate this into our sense of the world around us.

If you wish to go through life knowing things you are going to be disappointed. Our nature does not allow us to know things to an absolute degree or control things to an absolute degree. It is this desire to know and control things that lead many to false beliefs and paths. They offer them the comfort of certainty and power. Eschew these things if you wish to be happy.

[realisticphish]

13. we can't

so fuck it. let's go bowling.

[dbt]

14. The great Lennon teaches us (all those years ago)

Nothing is real
And nothing to get hung about,
Strawberry Fields forever.

:smoke:

[entanglement]

15. You are merely a collection of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen

and nitrogen atoms put together in a certain configuration. Your 'life' is a continuous fight against the entropy that wants to reduce you to dust. All other aspects of your existence are mere sequellae.

[hfojvt]

16. nothing matters and what if it did?

That was the title of one of John Mellencamp's first albums.
Sounds like you need to do some reading - 1) Sophie's World, 2) Does God exist?, and 3) Being and nothingness.

[mark414]

18. who is the author

of 'does god exist'?

i found a couple with the same title...

i just finished reading camus' 'the stranger' last night...that's what set me off

[hfojvt]

23. this guy who used to teach with Joseph Ratzinger

name of Hans Küng
people are strange, when you're a stranger
Camus is not a nihilist, is he? Does not the stranger learn that some things do matter?
I cannot remember that one, something about a beach and a murder.

[mark414]

25. you are right about the beach and the murder

but what the stranger realizes in the end is that, in fact, nothing matters. whether he dies tomorrow by execution or dies in 20 years from an illness, life will keep on going, and that we are ALL condemned to die, whether it be by jury or by god, because all men are mortal.

i think the best way to describe camus is that he understands and accepts some premises of nihilism, but if you look at some of his other works he seems to argue against it.

[hfojvt]

30. sounds like empty rationalizing to me

anyone alive would tell you that the difference between tomorrow and 20 years does matter. You might say that in 21 years that difference will not matter, but that is not true. First, because the influence of my life can extend beyond my death through the people who remember me and the posts or short stories I write in the next twenty years might still be either inspiring or discouraging people thousands of years from now.
In the next twenty years, theoretically I could have a child or two, raise that child who would then go on to have children and like one of my ancestors, Joseph Loomis who was born in 1590 and has millions of descendents alive today. As the Loomis family history says: "from a single man, established in Connecticut in 1639 has descended an army of sturdy men who contributed no mean share towards making good our Declaration of Independence in 1776, and in saving our country from disruption in 1861; who have been respectably represented in the ranks of educated men and in each of the three learned professions; ..."
Since I am descended from one of his daughters I would think that his female descendants made some important contributions as well, but it would not have happened if his life had been cut short.

[mark414]

31. that

is a good philosophy to live by

thanks

[JanMichael]

35. Camus is one of my FAVORITE authors.

The Stranger has a difficult theme to dismis however my favorite work by Camus is the Myth of Sissyphus (sp?) which has a deeper take on what it means to "exist'.

Sure pushing the boulder up the hill is torture but the trek back down the hill is the time to flip off the "gods" that put you in that place. Or better yet you knwe you may end up in that place but ultimately it was YOU who chose that fate.

Either way it's always good to exist because nobody, I mean NOBODY, knows what happens after this "You" dies.

[RandomKoolzip]

19. Go get some psyocibin NOW. Eat it before 3 o'clock.

The answers will come, my son.

[Nikia]

20. Thoughts are very powerful

I didn't realize how much this is true until recently. It really is like the Matrix. What you think, you perceive as real. In a self help book I read, it says that are bodies cannot distinguish between anxiety caused by real situations and anxiety caused by thought. You might think that it helps you to prepare for a big confrontation by simulating it in your mind, but the toll is that you have to literally experience it twice then or when you wouldn't have to experience it at all. When I think of how negative I have been thinking lately, I realize how damaging I have been. Beating myself up over the fact though, just damages me more.
Even our normal senses, which we think are really outside of ourselves, are only experinced through the filter of our mind. We see things in our minds, not where they really are.
Some mystics go as far as to say that reality is a distraction to keep us from the truth.
Yes, it is all very scary if you seriously think about it. Perhaps, it is safer to live primarily in the world of "reality", what we seem to experience outside of ourselves with our senses.

[HEyHEY]

21. If I die tomorrow, my bank will get less of their loan back

So, I'm hoping for tomorrow, those bastards :mad:

[Left Is Write]

22. "why do i keep driving myself crazy with all these questions?"

Now that's the $64,000 question!

[Redstone]

24. Excuse me, I gotta run. The solution in that vat

over there needs some adjusting, I see.

Redstone

[Jara sang]

26. About a million Pink Floyd lyrics that I could reply with, just this one.

All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.

[JanMichael]

27. Because of the pre-reflective cogito?

Sorry I'm only 150 pages into Being and Nothingness so I'm still a tad unclear on this.

Pose the question in a week and I'll definately be able to bullshit for hours on consiousness and being and other such swell stuff:-)

[Briarius]

28. is there really a you to drive crazy?

and if you're comparing yourself to others to determine your sanity, if they only exist in the mind can they really be sane? :evilgrin: I love these kinds of discussions

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. Because nothing unreal exists

Though, actually, "real" is dependant on one's own definition of what "real" constitutes.

It's a totally personal choice.

Though there are times when, no matter how much you choose not to believe that car speeding toward is "real", it's gonna hit you anyway.


You drive yourself crazy with those questions because you are intelligent and are curious. People who don't ask those questions join the Taliban or Jerry Falwell's Christian Terrorist Network or other religious nutso group.

[LiberallyInclined]

32. yeah...i remember my first joint-

happy contemplatin'...

[mark414]

36. heh...thanks

but far from my first friend B-)

:smoke:

[Taxloss]

33. Our conception is real, and as our only benchmark, we must conclude that

the rest of the universe is real. But we have no proof, and are dealing with a conception, we have to admit the fantasy that nothing is real.

But if nothing is real ... where are we?

[KittyWampus]

34. I Am... That Is The Name Of "God" Or Mind. Read Patanjali's Yoga Aphorisms

it's much more practical.