Question about these Kittens

[funkybutt]

Okay, I know some of you have been following this. I found 4 kittens under my deck earlier this week. I'm trying to keep the mom well fed so that she'll stay around. My goal is to socialize the kittens so that they can be put up for adoption when they are old enough.

I'm trying to touch them and handle them (whenever possible) so that they won't be wild like the mom. The problem is: In the mornings, I feed her and while she's eating, I touch the kittens and pick them up (sometimes). Then in the afternoon she moves them to another location. Today is the 3rd move this week.

First they were in a very secure area under a staircasing beneath my back deck. It was secure from rain and pretty much everything else. I couldn't really get to them very easily there. Ideally, i wish she'd return them there.

Second, she placed them in a bed of ferns. Still in my backyard but not safe from rain.

Third she decided on a tight space between a stack of bricks and my garage. (sheltered from the rain)

Today, she moved them to a space between my back fence and my brick grill structure.

So...She's obviously not cool with me handling the kittens. Yet she hasn't taken them to a location that I can't access (YET!) like under my house. I wish she'd just settle on a spot for them and I'm concerned that she's running out of spots and she'll take them under the house soon (where I can't get to them to socialize them). What should I do?

on edit: photo

[Mutley]

1. I don't know

how much time or money you have to devote to this, but if you really want to socialize them you might consider taking the kittens, and bottle feeding them until they are old enough to find new homes. You can get kitten formula at most pet supply stores. Mom might even be willing to be socialized with them.

[mike_c]

5. I'll second that suggestion as well as the ones I made below....

I've done this, and the cats who resulted were awesome pets. It's a big committment, but it works really well.

[Mutley]

7. If you choose this option

be sure to do a lot of research on it. I'm pretty sure if they're really young they have to be fed every 2 or 3 hours (including in the middle of the night! and during the work day!) It IS a big commitment, but when it's done you will feel GREAT about what you've accomplished.

[sui generis]

16. you also have to massage their stomachs

if you do it - momma kitty helps them excrete by licking their stomachs for the first couple of weeks. I don't recommend it if you have the mother right there to do all of that as designed by nature.

Just be patient.

[jus_the_facts]

2. I don't know...but awwwwwwwwwww they're soo sweet.....

:loveya:

[mike_c]

3. give her a few days without interacting with the kittens....

She might simply be moving them because she doesn't feel properly denned up anywhere yet, so maybe if you let her work that out-- and if it were me, I'd provide her with an enticing shelter, like a nice warm box in a dry place with a blanket inside and food and water bowls nearby (feed her there, but don't leave food out-- that will almost certainly cause her to move away from the food, which can attract unwanted attention).

on edit-- cut an opening in the side of a closed cardboard box so she can go in and out easily, then set the box on something to raise it off the ground a little, or otherwise keep the bottom dry.

double edit-- it just occurred to me: are you putting food out near her and the kittens? That might seem like a reasonable thing to do, but it's not a good idea, especially if you leave the food there. Put the food somewhere away from her nest.

[funkybutt]

6. thanks

I made the mistake of putting food close to her spot before she made the first move. I realized that mistake and now i always put it in the same spot away from them.

I just got a box and I'm going to fix up that initial location for her this afternoon...maybe she'll take them back there.

[newsguyatl]

4. i would leave them completely alone for

a couple more weeks, so she won't move them anymore, then when they're old enough to survive without her (4-5 weeks) take them with you.

[paula777]

21. No, I disagree - if the mom is feral and you wait until they are that old

you will be dealing with unsocial cats that will be very hard to tame completley and make 'adoptable'. you need to get them young - the younger the better (bottle feed, etc, like the first several posts). But only if you have the time and energy to do all that. It's so worth it if you do.

[sui generis]

8. she's not moving them because you're handling them

she's moving them because you're feeding her close to the kittens which could bring other predators around them.

put the food a little distance away from them - and don't worry about socializing the kittens until their eyes are open (about 10 days). They'll be curious and socialize themselves, especially if they see you moving about feeding momma kitty. Do you have a box or something you can turn on its side and put an old blanket in for them? They like to "nest". They're adorable.

[Kikosexy2]

9. Have these little...

kittens lost their mittens?

[SoCalDem]

10. You have dilemma on your hands.. She does not want you touching them

She's perfectly willing to accept your handouts, but it's her job to make these kittens fear humans, so if you do not "take" them (and her) you will soon have some wild kittens running all over your yard, and you will have a hard time catching them. In a few months, they will bring THEIR kittens to your house for the "eats".. I have been through this, and it's TERRIBLE..

Feral kittens are not in demand..There are plenty of "home-raised" kittens..

Our feral "tribe" apparently walked through anti-freeze and one by one I had to have them euthanized.. The first time they were touched by human hands (mine) was when I scooped them up and took them to the vet to end their misery:cry:..

Only two survived, and we were able to trap, neuter and release them. We still feed them. but they refuse to be touched, petted and flee at the first sign of eye-contact. We give them shelter, food & water, but they are never going to be housepets.. I bottlefed the two litters the female had (before we caught her), and either adopted them or found homes for them (we kept 3 from the first litter and 2 from the second)
..

The best chance those babies have is for YOU to kidnap them and bottlefeed them.. then haul them to Petsmart to be adopted.. Catch Momma, and neuter her.. You will be saving their lives:)

[funkybutt]

14. That's terrible!

That sounds like a horrible situation that you had. I pray that I dont' have the same one on my hands. Unfortunately bottle feeding these kittens is not an option for me. I work 10 hours a day and it would simply be impossible to feed them every 2-3 hours.

I have successfully tamed a feral cat in these exact circumstances. Only one kitten out of 6 was not adoptable. I think those odds are acceptable in my situation so I'm doing all the same things that I did before...and praying that I can catch her and have her spayed after I catch them.

[Mutley]

28. You could possibly find a foster family

if you contact some local shelters and rescues. That would be a good way of finding someone who does have the time to raise them.

[Beaverhausen]

11. Very common for mom to move them

they even do it if they are housepets and are inside. It's a natural instinct to hide them from predators.

I agree to wait until they are older. Don't take them now...you would not only have to feed every 2 hours but have to help with their "elimination."

But maybe now you could try and make some kind of shelter for her? Maybe just a big cardboard box with some old blankets or towels in it. Put it somewhere nearby and maybe she'll move the babies into it.

[roguevalley]

13. by the way, you have a star in heaven for helping them.

[roguevalley]

12. Are they old enough to drink and thus be removed?

[funkybutt]

15. No probably only 10 to 12 days old now

They just opened their eyes yesterday

[Beaverhausen]

17. oops

I think way too young to take them from mom. I helped a friend try and save 3 very young kittens and none of them made it.

We also had a stray mom cat with 7 kittens in my (outdoor) apartment complex a few years ago. When they were old enough the kittens and mom were all rounded up and taken to a shelter. It was the only choice.

[fleabert]

18. I could be totally wrong, but

if you have no other pets, and have a garage that you can live without, lure momma there for a feeding and move the kittens inside. Trap mama in there with babies (with a nice bed in a box or something hidden so she feels safe) continue feeding mom until babies are older, and mom is more used to you, then move inside the house.

Mom will follow kittens, so i'd put the kittens where i wanted them and make a nice space somewhere totally safe. Socialize all at once.

[Steph13]

19. I agree with others on here..

..they don't actually start cleaning themselves (& using a litterbox) until about 3-4 weeks of age. I'm fostering some kittens now w/ their mama, and they pretty much didn't know much of anything until around 3 weeks old or so. Their eyes opened, and they pretty much hissed at anything in sight, but then they start exploring. I think that's when you want to nab them is when they can clean themselves, use a litterbox, and aren't as reliant on the mother as they are when they're younger. I believe that's around 4 weeks old. Do you know how old they are now? Here's a few pics of some of the kittens I'm fostering at around 4 weeks old..





The kittens are 4 weeks.. the big one is mine.. she's 6 months. :)

[Beaverhausen]

20. oh my god they are so cute. Beautiful coloring on that first one

Good for you for all your work.

[tammywammy]

23. I agree with what you said

Ali and Chloe were dumped on some land my parent's friends own. They were about 4-6 weeks old, so they could use the litter box on their own. That sat in my bathroom and hid for a week, hissed and spat at me everytime I went in there. During this time, we'd go and pet them (even while they hissed) to show them it was okay. After a week or so, they started to come out and check out the house. And now, there's no way anyone would think they're feral. They're two lazy house bums now.

[Mr. McD]

22. I am going through a similar experience.

Found these guys under my woodpile last Thursday. The next day Momma cat moved them into our garage. We started putting out food, water, and a litter box. The momma and the kittens have been eating the food and the kittens are using the litter box. We haven't seen the mother go into the garage for several days now. We have holding and petting the kittens for several days. If we don't see momma soon we will take them into the house.

On edit: 3 boys and a girl.

[Beaverhausen]

24. oh my god. sooooooooooooo cute

I love this thread.

[funkybutt]

26. Wow! a very similar situation indeed

Those little guys even look like older versions of the ones I have.

SO CUTE!

[miss_kitty]

25. I have friends who have made boxes for ferals and entice them in with a

heating pad, well insulated, on low heat. If maybe you could rig something up, get mom close to it with food, so she'll check it out, then step off a bit to see if she'll move there.

Good Luck!

[laugle]

27. My husband feeds a colony

of 10 feral cats. He also works with the local humane society(aspca) in San Francisco to have them spade and neutered and he feeds them. He has turned in 7 kittens to them and all were adoptable..... suggest you contact your local humane society for advice. If they have a feral cat division, that's even better. Good Luck to you....I hope they can help. I know that at the very least they can advise you.

[khashka]

29. You are doing the right thing

but call the SPCA or Animal Welfare.

Obviously Mama Cat is caught between protecting her kittens and knowing which side of her bread is buttered. She lets you handle them... so you are only a potential threat not an immediate one.

So call the SPCA. They'll know what to do. Not only do you need to get these kittens into good homes, you need to get Mama spayed so she won't be having litter after litter of babies that will die horribly.

Khash.