A question - does it matter how music actually sounds these days?

[DancingBear]

Not a rant - just a question.

With portability being the rage, and with everything being copied into a multitude of digital formats, I was just wondering if the sound quality of what is being listened to takes a back seat (these days) to convenience.

I am an audiophile, so you can guess where my prejudices lie. While I have no issues with listening to car radio (there is, after all, a certain "car sound" that is to be expected) I find it fascinating that folks will pay lots of money to gain the ability to listen to poorly reproduced music wherever they go.

And let's not even start on "surround sound" - geez..... :)

So, whatever happened to people wanting the music to sound really good? And does it even really matter anymore?

Sincerely,

Old Person

[Selatius]

1. Let technology answer it in time

Simple fact is an mp3 file at 128 kbps is of lower quality and takes up less space than one that is 192 or even higher and takes up more space. If a person wants to squeeze as many songs as possible onto a medium of storage, he's probably going to choose lower quality files as opposed to larger, higher quality ones.

The problem is space. There's not enough of it.

[kerrywins]

2. mp3's sound just as good in the car, on my computer

or on my home stereo.....not a big difference...so to me...i think the quality is there....

[DancingBear]

6. Try an mp3 vs. an LP

One is analog, the other digital.

There is no comparison.

[kerrywins]

8. or...a remastered lp

example...
remastered rolling stones album...
originally on lp...remastered recently on cd....rip to mp3...sounds much better to me then the lp.

[DancingBear]

20. A serious question

Does it sound "better", or does it sound correct?

The old Stones albums, for example, were awash in reverb and distortion when they were made - that was the "style" back then, and it was deliberate. Richard's guitar, if the system is reproducing it correctly, should sound (at times) tinny.

Another example is "Baba O'Reilly", from "Who's Next." In the piano intro, a good system (or an analog recording) will let you hear (literally) the wooden hammers on the piano striking the keys and then decaying in what (sounds like) an off-key harmonic. Newer recordings of the song sound much "cleaner" and "purer", without this irritating component. But it was THERE when the LP went to tape.

That is what I mean by better vs. correct. In these times, artificial perfection seems to be the order of the day. I am wondering if we are being conditioned that guitars always sound a certain way, that horns are always bright, etc. (Note: This is of course a function of digital technology, because no matter how many times you sample a square wave it ain't never gonna be analog in nature).

[kerrywins]

25. it sounds very good to me....

cleaner to me....
also...at louder volumes...it doesn't hurt my ears as much as lp at louder volumes....

[leftofthedial]

3. how good is "good"?

is this a digital versus analog thing?

or a CD versus mp3 thing or what?

There is such a range of quality in recordings and playback devices for all the formats that I'm not sure the distinction makes sense.

also, most people can't physically hear the difference anyway.

[DancingBear]

9. I think most people aren't aware of the difference

because they have never heard true two channel analog audio.

Whenever friends come by (especially non-audiophiles) I have them pick out a CD (or LP) of something that they know very well. Then I play it for them.

Without fail, they look at me and say things like "I NEVER knew it sounded like that'.

I try not to get too sheepish when that happens... :)

[leftofthedial]

42. personally, ilove the way hi-end hi-fi analog audio sounds

But I also liked AM radio

All the shades in between are okay. There are some things I specifically fire up the good system for, and others I just listen to on iTunes.

It's all better than no music at all.

[Hugin]

10. In my whole life I've only known one person who had...

"perfect pitch" and one person who could tell you
what song was on a record by looking at the light
reflected in the grooves. (That was strange.)

So, I don't think there's much of an issue any more.

Except for file size between the formats and with these
mega-gigabyte players most people can still have high
sampled files of their entire collections with room
to spare.

[BlueJazz]

17. Now you know 2 people with perfect pitch.

:)

(You should hear me Rant when one of the judges on American Idol starts critiquing the performers)
Serves me right for watching..

[Hugin]

23. Well then... (Assuming you're not the same person.)

What's you're take on the great Digital vs. Analog debate?

Assume an infinite sample rate and 8 channel sound.
Decent amplification and playback.

[BlueJazz]

38. Well...(to me)..there is a difference.

I've got several albums and Cd's by the same groups (Chicago..etc).

I mean the SAME songs on CD and LP...anyway..I notice that the "Colors" of the waveforms (AGGGG..I've always had a rough time explaining how I hear notes or "Just Know" that a note is a Db but sharp..sorry) seem more Warm on LP than on CD. I can pick out the Chords and tell who is off-key easier on a LP than I can with a CD...Not by much but still.... :)

[Debi]

4. I CAN'T HEAR YOU

I GOT THE SOUND TURNED WAAAAAY UP AND I'M FREAKIN JAMMIN RIGHT NOW!;)

[Hugin]

5. Well... I for one think the sound quality

of digital music is as good if not better than
the sound coming off of a vinyl LP.

At any reasonable sample rate.

[Bluzmann57]

7. As a fellow old person

I am not altogether sure if modern music is even worth listening to. I have a 20 year old daughter and she says that she likes our "old folks" stuff, but that we need to open our minds to some of the stuff out there now. So I tried. I wasn't too impressed. But then maybe I'm just an old fogie. I do have several hundreds of dollars worth of stereo equipment however and can pick out subelties (sp?) in music. Ah never mind, just an old guy questioning things too.

[DancingBear]

13. Nah, you're right

Rock music died in or around 1973. It was not a real creative force to begin with, but by '73 all the avenues to be explored (psych, country rock, etc.) had been played out. Everything eldse now is just a rehash of what came before.

(but don't tell the young folks - they get mad... :) :)

[BlueJazz]

31. Yep..I understand..I'm an audio buff myself.

You should have heard my former Girlfriend when I told her I was going to buy some speakers (18 hundred dollars..Are you NUTS!!)

One of the "problems" nowadays is the fact that so many tunes employ
Guitar, Bass, Drums....The next "Hit" has Guitar, Bass, Drums and so
on and so on...repeat 500 times.

I mean, when your instrumentation only ranges from E on bass (42 cycles) to MAYBE 12,000 cycles (hertz) for the whole song plus the fact that there is Distortion Purposely performed then just about ANY half-ass stereo will do the job.
On songs that have more complex wave forms..Violins..Saxes..Etc..then it's a new ball-game :)

[kerrywins]

14. ther are great bands out right now

chevelle
strokes
bravery - honest mistake
coldplay
mars volta - the widow

tons more...

[kerrywins]

11. drums in digital tend to be more clean...

which...i think...to me sounds worse....
they're too dang loud.....just like in real life....
example...drums on all zeppelin albums sound incredible...they add to the music..instead of hurt my ears....the cymbals especially sound cool....and its because they weren't recorded as cleany as they are today....but thats a good thing...

[seemunkee]

12. I don't think people know the difference

A lot of people have never heard a good stereo system. I've tried to play MP3s through my stereo and had to stop, I just couldn't stand listening to it.
I think the other aspect is with so much video/TV options people people, and teens especially don't just sit and listen to music.

[Beaverhausen]

15. I agree with you

the compressed formats like mp3 just don't sound as good.

as a musician, and a middle aged person, I still want to hear it all as best I can.

[RC]

16. Most people have no clue what good music really sounds like

because they have never heard any.
All most people today have ever heard is electronically, amplified, compressed, expanded, loud, purposely distorted sounds of various wavelengths and durations.
High Fidelity? Not out of those light cheap speakers that come with most sound systems people buy. They sound "good" only because they can produce electronically boosted bass.

Straight acoustical music, no matter how good just does not sound right to way too many people. And that is a shame.

[madmom]

18. Hubby and I went to but new TV awhile back...

and the youngun (salesperson) was aghast when hubby said he didn't want surround sound cuz it sucked. It was like he committed sacrilege or something.

[kerrywins]

22. surround sound doesn't suck

its a good thing...

[seemunkee]

24. Not necessarily

A good two channel system will beat a crappy surround sound system.

[kerrywins]

26. crappy anything isn't good.

[DancingBear]

28. It is the biggest gimmick since quad

Let's say you go to see the London Philharmonic. You take your seat in Row 9, the curtain opens, and the musicians appear and begin to play.

Exactly how many of them are standing and playing behind you??

'Nuff said. :)

[kerrywins]

30. watching band of brothers on regular tv...

or watching it with surround sound?
you'd prefer to watch it without surround sound?

[Hugin]

33. Put me down for surround sound...

Only problem is... Very few things are originally
recorded in surround sound.

Same problem as HDTV is currently having.

[kerrywins]

34. for me...its about movies

i want surround sound for movies at home.

[Hugin]

37. Aside about the track spotter guy...

He really could tell what music was on an LP by
looking at a track.

It was a real Rainman moment when we realized his
talent.

The guy was fairly "normal" in all other respects
and a real idiot savant in one particular area.

The only rule was he had to have heard the music
played a couple of times. Otherwise, he could hum
a few bars, but, would have to admit he didn't know
the song.

If someone covered the label and handed him a "Greatest Hits" album
he hadn't heard before that he'd heard most of the songs on.
He could name them off in order.

[DancingBear]

39. It's fine for movies

Movies are artificial, and so surround sound. I can agree with that.

For real music, to be listened to as it was recorded, surround sound is just silly.

"Oh wow, the drums came from over there."

[kerrywins]

40. i agree

music, except super audio cd...is in 2 channels....why would you listen to it with surround sound?

[Abelman]

19. What do you use to listen?

Tech specs?

Anyone who knows anything about digital v. analog KNOWS that analog is better quantitatively. I would love to hear a good solid stereo kicking an LP. A fresh vinyl record played for the first time will always have superior quality to a CD.

But the CD is harder to skip. Same with an mp3. Add to that the concept that there are many popular songs which don't have much going on to really listen to, and convenience is the winner.

What drives me crazy is all the people who think tey are the experts on the EQ. Obviously, all music should have the bass turned all the way up, along with a subwoofer turned up all the way, and some bass boost behind it.

Because that's music!

Signed
A young person.

[DancingBear]

36. High end tube equipment

SET monoblock amps, low power horns.

Single play CD player (Naim) with separate power supply.

Brazilian made amps/pre-amp (matched to the horns). Pre-amp is a line stage, with separate phono amp.

As far as skipping, well if you just sit back and listen - let the music take you where it wants - then the skipping thing is a mute point. Yes?

Turn the bass up???

You're joshin' me, right??? :) :)

[Abelman]

41. Solid info

Bass up. That's how the students all listen to EVERYTHING. It's ridiculous.

As for skipping, I agree. I generally take it easy, it's hard to do that sometimes though. I've got a bookshelf system that really sucks, but at my financial stage I can't really get much else right now. It's okay.

[Mugweed]

21. Well...

Some music lends itself to being recorded badly (live Gun Club recordings) while others better sound crystal clear or there's no point to listening (Eno ambient musics).

[Hugin]

32. Bingo!

I have no idea of the groups you're talking about, but,
I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment.

[mr blur]

27. I'd rather listen to an LP than anything else

I LIKE the surface noise. I hate the sound of CDs - no presence and ultimately boring to the ears and to the brain. Doesn't matter what's on it, it's not the same. But the world is locked into this dull path, and now my kid's buying CDs and converting them to mp3s or whatever for his bloody iPod.
I think sound quality does take a back seat these days. Pretty soon everything will be reduced to elevator music for the headphones. No-one under 30 will care much because it's all they've ever heard. Endless tinny digital drivel.
And CDs are too long! But then I think that 45 minutes or so is the ideal length for an album. It's a satisfying length for a selection of music. Much more and your brain has had enough, I think. Name one classic Beatles, Who or Stones album, for example, that would be improved by another twenty minutes or so of stuff that wasn't deemed good enough for the album in the first place, and a dodgy video at the end.
Quantity at the expense of quality, I'd say. Or to put it another way, More Is Less.

[necso]

29. My buddy is into

music big-time (and old school).

He favors analog and he has a point. He sat me down once and made me listen to two (record album) recordings of the same song, one digitally mastered and one analog.

There was no question that the analog master sounded (significantly) better. (The albums were both in virtually pristine condition and everything else was the same -- and he is a fanatic about needles.)

He also dislikes CD's and MP3's, etc. (He likes FM when a good source is used.)

But it is what you are used to, at least to a degree. I normally listen to music on my PC speakers (good, not great) and when I use only my (inside) stereo speakers (very good speakers -- hand-me-downs) the same music sounds very different.

Now, I know from testing a whole mess of speakers (with my friend -- using different amps, including some tube ones) that my stereo speakers make the same music sound better -- but it takes some getting used to when I switch over.

Myself, I am not that fussy, and I hate scratching sounds, motor noises, etc, so digital (and even compressed with loss) the whole way works for me.

But yes, the quality does seem to suffer with digital. And this starts (apparently) with the master recordings. Perhaps better sampling would mitigate the problem. However, many people may be past caring.

And digital music is convenient -- I can hook my MP3 player to almost anything, including some good headphones. But you certainly aren't alone, and my buddy talks about certain musicians moving back to analog -- or at least fiddling with it. (I can't remember the details.)

[LeftyMom]

35. I agree

Analog soungs better, just richer and more alive. The tone is warmer, and the ocassional imperfections are mostly charming. Except for cassette hiss, which is truly evil. It's the sound of the devil's flatulence or something, I tell you!

Reading your post makes me want to head over to my family's house and dig my records out of the closet. Execpt for some of the more embarassing hair metal, I'll bring that home but pretend I didn't. ;)

Surround sound is cool for two things: movies where stuff blows up, and movies where helicopters, spaceships, etc fly past. Once you've heard it happen a few times, it's old news.

-Not old, just prematurely crabby and set in my ways

[Abelman]

43. Here's how the difference was explained to me:

This is analog ___________________

This is digital ----------------

I hope that explains it.

[Jamastiene]

44. Something I have always wanted to ask a fellow audiophile...

Do you feel like listening to music without at least a 7 band equalizer is just torture? I'm an audiophile on a budget, so it's hard to explain to those who don't understand. I have always wondered if I and one friend of mine are the only people in the world keeping the entire equalizer manufacturing industry afloat.

[Radical Activist]

45. This is why I don't want an I pod and still sometimes buy CD's

Downloaded songs just don't sound as good. I want to hear all the music. Its especially important with some newer recordings.