Okay all you Seattle Washingtonians, tell me about your area. MrG got

[ScreamingMeemie]

a job offer for there or San Fran. Washington intrigues me, but I don't know much about it.

How's the cost of living? Average 3-4 bedroom home price? Would a $15 an hour raise cover the costs over what we've got going here in Michigan? It sounds like a lot, which has me worried that the area is expensive. I appreciate any input as I really have never thought of living in the state, but the idea of going kind of intrigues me.

Thanks,

Laura

[auntAgonist]

1. You can't move ..

we haven't met yet!!

I don't know about the economy but I'd pick Washinton over San Fran.
San Fran is a great place to vacation ... Washington is beautiful.


here's a link for some real estate ..yikes.

http://tinyurl.com/bd68q

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. I really don't want to move and am hoping that it will work out to not

be worth our while. And I would definitely meet you either way! :hi:

[auntAgonist]

8. I edited my post to include a link ..

[Goathead]

2. We tried to move there once.

No offence to Washingtonians but it is depressing. It is beautiful though.

[MissB]

5. Yes. Lots of rain

Portland is better. :evilgrin:

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. I've never been. I truly know nothing about it.

:hi:

[Zuni]

3. Seattle is home to America's 2 most prolific serial killers

Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer. Hope that helps you in your decision making. :hi:

[mark414]

9. hey, she's from wisconsin

home of jeffrey dahmer, ed gein, and joe mccarthy!

she can handle it no problem

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Well, I come from the land of Ed Guin and Jeffrey Dahmer...so...

;) :hi:

[tavalon]

77. Ah, but Ted

practiced his craft down in Florida.

[MissB]

4. I dunno

But I grew up north of Seattle. It is all very beautiful. We lived in the country - very rural, except for the fact that it was also a recreational area. Even back then, we had some people whose parents commuted to Seattle each day (for the Washington residents, this was slightly north of Marysville).

The only thing I don't like about Seattle (and the surrounding areas) is the traffic.

Good luck!

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. We got traffic and crappy roads to boot here in Detroit.

Is there still country? That would be nice.

[MissB]

22. I haven't been able to find a real estate listing for the area

where I grew up. It was zip code 98259 - Lakewood, Washington. Very country-ish. The high school was right across the street from a dairy farm.

I lived across the street from Lake Ki, which is a mostly private lake (with the exception of a strip of beach on the main road). No motor boats allowed. Our neighbors had horses. Field upon field upon field and forest upon forest upon forest.

It hadn't changed much last time I was up there a few years ago. But I did notice that my old school district had added two new elementary schools. So it must've grown.

[Zuni]

40. My High School was very close to a Dairy farm

The Naval Academy Dairy Farm (my High School, Arundel Senior, was near Annapolis, NSA headquarters and Ft. Meade)
Man, we used to have to cover our noses on the bus when we went past there. It really stunk on hot days. Lots and lots of cows pooping.

[miss_kitty]

28. Actually, Lakewood is a crime pit that has areas Ft Lewis soldiers

are barred from going to.
There is country around, but it is fast filling up with housing developments. You should come out and look around. probably your best bet for country is Vashon Island or something eastish or southeastish (Enumclaw, Black Diamond) or Northeastish (Gold Bar or Sultan) Country gets ya freeper action somewhat.
I think Amanda Ruth lives in the country, but close to Seattle. She might be able to fill you in

[MissB]

37. Different Lakewood.

There are actually two Lakewood, Washingtons.

One is near Tacoma (Pierce County). The other is north of Marysville (Snohomish County).

[miss_kitty]

44. ahh-that explains it

I was thinking "Wha? she crazy-talkin'!"
I never knew there was a Lakewood by Marysville. Learn sumpthin new every day!

Thanks! :hi:

[MissB]

45. Here is the public part of Lake Ki.

http://www.steelheader.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/110760/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

And here is the camp that is right across the street from where I grew up. Their lake parcel butted up against our lake parcel.

http://www.roi-invest.com/campki-photos.htm

Lakewood is just a couple of miles off of I-5 at exit 206.

[uppityperson]

80. There is country nearby. How far out are you willing to go?

Country is closer in Seattle. Live on Bainbridge or somewhere over the ferry and commute that way. And it does not rain that much here, more grey than raining. It's all negative publicity because we don't want too many people to move here.

[mark414]

6. move out of the midwest???

yer crazy

but really...i'm thinking about picking up and moving to san fran myself

the only downside is, unless i buy a satellite dish or something i won't be able to get the packer games...

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. I don't really want to, but, we go where the money is. And the shops

are all closing down here. It makes me giggle. Someone thought I said MrG would be making $15 an hour. ;)


Sunday Ticket is awesome. It's how we get all the Packer games now. :hi:

[grace0418]

11. I have 3 sibs in Seattle and 2 sibs in Olympia

I think it's beautiful there, not depressing at all (like someone else here said). Even when the weather is gray there, there is so much nature around. When the weather is gray in Chicago, there's nothing but concrete around. We've looked on and off at housing and whatnot for a possible move there. It seemed pretty comparable to Chicago, which might be expensive for you if you're in Michigan. But to a Chicagoan, it seemed fine. The nature there is incredibly beautiful. I love all the trees, hills, mountains, lakes, the ocean, etc. I didn't think the neighborhoods, architecturally speaking, were as pretty as Chicago. But they're still pretty cool and all the funky shops, restaurants and bookstores certainly make up for it. The people are awesome too, very liberal, very into culture, very into organic food and alternative medicine.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. An average 3 bedroom in a nice area is around 200-225 and up.

I would miss "Up North", but we truly live in the armpit of Michigan, so what you describe is interesting. :hi: Thanks!

[grace0418]

46. A 3Br home is $200-225K in Michigan or Seattle?

Because in Chicago proper you can't get a 3Br single family home in a decent neighborhood for under $400K, at least that we've seen. You can get one for $250K in some of the outlying or southern suburbs. Anyway, when we were looking in Seattle it seemed like the prices were in line with Chicago pretty much. The one thing my siblings told me to be conscious of when looking for a home was commute time. Because of the hills, large lakes, the sound, bridges, parks, etc. what seems like a small distance might actually be a long commute. So make sure when you do find something that you like to drive from there to your office at different times to get a sense of the commute.

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. Wow, my cousin just bought a 4 bedroom new build outside Chicago

for $290K. LakeForest.The prices I mentioned were Michigan prices. That's for a middle of the road, not too fancy, not too cruddy neighborhood. :hi:

[grace0418]

60. That's what I thought.

Yeah, it is possible to get a house in the farther suburbs for that much. Not that Lake Forest is super far, but it's far enough to drop the prices a little. We've been looking in Evanston (the first suburb north of Chicago) and having the hardest time. We want a 3br, 2ba single-family and can't find any we like for under $450K.

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. It sucks doesn't it?

You can't get much here for lower than that either. Our house is an 1150 sq. ft. ranch and they're selling for $225,000.

[grace0418]

64. Yeah, but I guess I can't complain too much

We'll be able to sell our condo for $100K more than we paid for it 5 years ago. If we can put that money into a house in a less expensive area, we can do alright. I'm just a city girl though. It's going to be really hard for me to give up city life.

[Zuni]

42. Seattle has great architecture

both Chicago and Seattle are known for Craftsman style homes

I liked Seattle a lot.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. We've got a ton of Craftsmans here in SE Michigan as well. There is

a gorgeous...and HUGE one at the end of our block that I would buy in a heartbeat. The architecture is really great in Michigan, I just don't feel as grounded as in my home state. People are rude for one. :hi:

[Zuni]

49. I love Craftsman style houses

But I love grand row houses, like in New York, DC, Philadelphia and Baltimore

DC---

Baltimore--

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. Here is the one I was telling you about...

It's currently on the market for $300,000. It's all original restored and just beautiful inside. :hi:

[Zuni]

56. I would love a house like that

those are the nicest looking houses. It really looks great.

I hate the new style single family homes. They have no charm. Those craftsman and colonials, they have class! :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. Agreed. My brother in law and his wife just bought a 3000 sq. foot

split level monstrosity...Obnoxious waste of space and no charm. I love the coved ceilings in our little brick ranch. :hi:

[Zuni]

67. You should see where my mother lives

she lives in a 105 yr. old 3 story colonial, right in the heart of historic Annapolis (literally a block from our statehouse, which was built in 1783 and George Washington resigned from the continental Army there)

On her street lived one signer of the Declaration of independence, William Paca. Charles Carroll, Thomas Stone and Samuel Chase (lived on the next street over), other signers, all lived in her neighborhood.

The writer of the national anthem, Francis Scott Key (who wrote the anthem during the siege of Ft. McHenry in Baltimore City) lived in Annapolis as well, near St. Mary's Church and Catholic School.

You would really like Annapolis. The third oldest college in the US, St. Johns founded 1696, is literally 1 block away from my mom's house, in a different direction than the state house. The Naval Academy is also nearby.

[grace0418]

65. I totally agree.

That's the other reason I'm loathe to move to the suburbs. All the new construction is so cold and lacking in character.

[Zuni]

68. One reason alot of those houses are old

is because they were built very well. People used to take pride in their craftsmanship. *sigh*

[Zuni]

59. actually, when I think about it

if you take away the top set of windows on the front and had them pointed to the side that house would look remarkably like the house my grandmother lived in in South Baltimore.

[grace0418]

52. I'm sorry, I said that wrong.

Seattle does have some wonderful architecture. But when we were driving and walking around different neighborhoods my brother thought we might like (and be able to afford), I didn't see *as many* stretches where all the houses on the block were adorable like I see in Chicago. My neighborhood, Lincoln Square, has block after block of really great houses. We're in a condo though and can't afford a single family home in our neighborhood (nothing under $500K). And lest you think I'm being biased about Chicago, I should tell you that I'd choose to live in Seattle over Chicago if I had my druthers. I'd probably be there or in Northern California right now if my husband didn't love his job here so much. Anyway, I was just trying to paint a picture since I figured someone from Michigan has probably been to Chicago at one time or another.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. I was born and raised in Milwaukee, WI... We spent every field trip

there. ...in Chicago that is. And my brother lived across from Wrigley field off Ashland for 10 years.

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. If I were living Michigan, I'd move to Seattle or SanFran in a heartbeat!

I wouldn't think about it very long at all.

Especially Seattle - I'd love to live there!

[miss_kitty]

14. It's expensive and the housing market is tight

but I think it's 10 times that in SF.

I live close to downtown (a mile) and the houses run in the 500-600k region, but the prices vary wildly. IIRC, we have the highest minimum wage in the nation, and $15 per hour is kinda low. If you move here, he should be making more, if that is what he makes now and is going to do the same job.

There are mountains, an ocean, many lakes and Puget Sound and all sorts of stuff to do here.

If you move here, please don't bitch about it afterward. We don't cotton much to that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=184x3771

However, if you did wanna bitch about it, there are plenty of folks that'll join right in. Just don't do it within the earshot of a native!

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. No, It's not 15 dollars an hour, it's a 15 dollar an hour raise from what

he makes now. We'd be living in a box if he only made 15 and hour here in Michigan. :hi: It'd be about $150-225,000 a year. Plus, I'd be working if my appraiser license is reciprocal. Sorry for the confusion.

[miss_kitty]

20. I think you'd have no problem affording a nice lifestyle out here

You may be able to bring your appraiser's license up to snuff with a few classes, if it is not 100% transferable.

We don't have a state income tax, but we do have the nation's most regressive sales tax system :( You could bitch about that :)

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. As a Chicagoan who has visited Seattle....it's a great city.

The scenery is incredible. I found the traffic to be much easier than Chicago and the living costs fairly comparable.

You trade snow in the winter for rain...and that can be depressing... but mostly you can kiss the snow shovel goodbye. In terms of real estate prices, check out realtor.com to get an idea. There are some very expensive areas and others that are more reasonable -- as in any city.

San Francisco is extremely expensive.

[ScreamingMeemie]

24. I find snow even more depressing.

:hi:

Thanks for your input. We almost moved to Chicagoland a couple of years ago.

[greatauntoftriplets]

27. You're welcome....

If I never had to see snow again in my life, I wouldn't miss it.

:hi:

[grace0418]

66. That's what I say when anyone asks why we want to move

to Seattle with "all that rain." Snow sticks around a lot longer and turns into a black disgusting mess.

[yewberry]

19. Yeesh, housing prices.

They vary widely depending on area, but they're high. You could buy a 3-4 br in a less-desirable location for 200-400K, but they get really high in some areas. The Seattle PI is at http://seattlepi.nwsource.com

Gas is more expensive than most of the country, in general, but less than it is in CA (currently $2.49 up the street.) Food is a little higher than other areas. Power is not bad, especially because temps tend to be moderate. (I just moved back to Seattle from MA, where my power bill might be $20 in the summer but would get over $300 in the winter.)

Visit first. It's a very different mindset than "back East"--that's why we had to come back. My WA-native husband HATED living in the Boston area. And so, no meet-up for me!

[youspeakmylanguage]

21. My girlfriend and I vacation there...

We have visited twice in two years, spending 5 days each time. We have friends that live in Ballard, which is a slightly more old-fashioned section of town. We work (or worked) for the same company, who moved their corporate headquarters from Seattle to Charlotte a few years ago.

We love it, but the cost of living is ridiculously high, especially housing. We would love to move there, but we have a nice house in a fairly-nice area in Charlotte, NC and couldn't afford much more than a 1-bedroom apartment in Seattle. The difference in the cost of living is enormous.

The town is an incredible, creative place. Why don't you visit first before you commit to moving?

[tigereye]

72. my best friend from college used to live in Ballard

I remember staying there when I visited. It was lovely with the view of the lake down the hill/ from her bf's breakfast nook. She now lives north of the city.


I loved Seattle when I have visited. As for the rain, I live in Pittsburgh, where it rains just a little less. And in Seattle the rain can clear pretty fast, right?

[The empressof all]

23. I love it here

I'm a native New Yorker who has lived in Seattle area for 20 years. Real Estate is more expensive here than in the mid west and you may not get comparable value for your Real Estate bucks but overall the good far out weighs the bad.

Where you choose to live depends on how much you want to commute, how much you can afford and what kind of community you want to live in. You really have a wide range of options. There are pockets of communities with older homes that need work (cosmetic--which is cool cause you can up-grade to the kitchen of your dreams) and are still reasonably priced. (At least by Seattle standards)

Don't limit your house browsing to Seattle. There are many wonderful small towns within commuting distance.

The weather here is wonderful. It gets Gray in the winter but rarely gets bitterly cold and snowy. Snow is an hour away at the ski slopes. Summers are never really hot and on the rare hot days it always cools down after the sun goes down to sleep well without air-conditioning.

It is hard to establish social connections but not impossible. There are tons of other folks out here in the same boat.

If you get closer to a move out here, PM me and I'll give you some pointers about neighborhoods, communities and commute times. (I'm not a Real Estate Agent--Just knowledgeable about the market)

[indy_azcat]

25. Will the 6" of snow this weekend change your mind?

I hear it'll be in the seventies in Seattle...

:hi: from Ypsi

[miss_kitty]

29. It's 71 right now

:)

[indy_azcat]

31. no fair

it's mid forties and dropping fast! :scared:

I vote they move to AZ.

[cally]

30. I love Seattle

It's the only city I've thought about moving to just because I like it. It's coffee and foody's town. I like the hills and that it's more compact than SF. Did I mention the food? ;-)

I think it's almost impossible for most to move into the SF housing market. It's my home and I love it but housing prices are insane. It's completely unaffordable. Your husband's salary makes you wealthy but not here. Average home prices are at least $500,000 and in most places much more. A half a million dollar home is a fixer upper in most parts of the Bay Area. We afford it because we rode the real estate boom. We made enough on earlier houses to afford this one. Moving into this market, you don't have that luxury.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. The job offer out of San Fran would be about a 25 dollar an hour raise

which the headhunter said was comparable to here...but I was doubting it.

[Arugula Latte]

48. This is a typical Bay Area real estate story:

We moved to a Bay Area suburb from Ohio when I was five in '71. Bought house (4 br, 2 ba ranch) for about $40,000. My parents sold it for about $465,000 in '99. Bought a house for about $550,000 that same year. Six years later, that house, which is quite nice but not spectacular, is worth well over a million dollars.

[Willy Lee]

32. Here's my 2 cents...

Seattle- a little cheaper than san fran. Beautiful surroundings- the Olympic Rainforest, Puget Sound, Mountains, etc. However, beaches are private property out INTO THE WATER!! so you must go to a park or public beach to comb or hang out. Clean and polite (could be the proximity to Canada, eh?) Folks aren't very outgoing- you have to work to make friends. Very keep-to-themselves-ish. Bad traffic, OK public transit. Ferry commuting- long but cool. You can live a ferry ride away from Seattle (Kitsap peninsula) for a fraction of the cost, but commute is long.

San Fran- Bright, vivid, colorful, dirty- but in a happy way. AMAZING architecture! Beautiful weather- foggy and chilly at times (OK, a lot of times) but quite temperate overall. It is a longer drive to get to isolated Nature. Awesome Pacific Ocean- which is public property up to the high-high tide line. Amazing creativity, levity and humor. Horrible traffic, BART rocks.

San Fran, to me, seems much more City. Stress, crime, pollution. But damn, I had much more fun there than Seattle! And I am a total country girl hick.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

33. We've been talking about moving to Seattle.

I say go. It'll be a good adventure. And it's beautiful. Good Luck :hi:
Duckie

[mondo joe]

34. Here's what I can say about Seattle:

The cost of a home will really depend on the neighborhood - Seattle is really divided by neighborhoods and each has its own feel. If you give more of a sense of what you'd like in a neighborhood I could offer more info.

Seattle, expensive as it is, has a lot of very cool low- and no-price activities.

Relative to San Fran it is a weeny little thing - more of a small town that thinks it's a city.

For me it's perfect.

For restaurants and activities take a look here: http://seattle.citysearch.com/

You can look at SOME properties here: http://www.windermere.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=listing.searchMap&map=seattle

or here: http://classifieds.nwsource.com/real/search.cfm?analytics=1&k=&l=64&f=&t=&search.x=47&search.y=8

You might want to set your sights lower than 4 bedrooms - Seattle housing tends to be smaller than Michigan.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. Right now we're in an 1150 sq footer, so I'd be looking between 1000

to 1400. We live in a small "city" north of Detroit in a 3 bedroom brick ranch. Neighborhood is older with lovely trees, sidewalks and parks. We're a block from the water right now...but I'm not a watersportsman so that wouldn't really matter. Thanks mondo.

Our house now is in the $200,000 range.

[Sanity Claws]

35. Seattle is nice but

the short days in the winter can be depressing. The sun rises a little after 8 Am and sets around 4 Pm. During those 8 hours, there's lots of clouds so you don't get much sun. That's the depressing part that someone else referred to. Lots of Seasonal Affective Disorder around here.
The trade off is that in the summer you get incredibly long, beautiful days. The sun doesn't set until almost 10 PM. Fireworks don't start until 10 Pm on the 4th of July.
The city does offer good theatre and movies. Its proximity to Victoria and Vancouver is an asset.
Good luck on making the decision that's right for you.

[ArmchairActivist]

36. Nah, you don't want to move here...

Real estate: off the hook prices.

Natives: We have a reputation for being grumpy and stand-offish (see miss kitty's link.)

Weather: Blah to the extreme. Gray, depressing, woeful.

Scenery: Used to be nice, now pavement spreads like disease, smog chokes the air so you can't see it. Hillsides denuded, valleys flood every time it rains heavy.

Traffic: Beyond awful, especially if you take another poster's advice and move to one of the 'small towns within commuting distance.'

Mass Transit: Mediocre at best, compared to what I read about in other places. It seems like a faraway dream.

Economy: Iffy, prone to boom-and-bust cycles, but it seems you're already fairly well off, so that might not be a problem for you.

Politics: Blue, but utterly polarized, and there is an extreme reticence on the part of the citizenry to pay for ANYTHING.

Culture: Decades of runaway growth, migration have left us scattered, fragmented. The cost of what that growth bought us has been high.

Bottom line: It's my home, it's where I've sunk my roots and I wouldn't live anywhere else. But it's changing fast, fast, fast. Blossom where you're planted.

-AA

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. See, the thing is, I'm a transplant here as well and pretty much a fish

out of water. In a word, I hate it and miss Wisconsin, but they don't offer jobs in my husband's field there. :( No blossoming anywhere for us...:hi:

[Arugula Latte]

50. One thing about the Northwest...

...when the mountains are "out" as they say, (i.e. out from cloud cover), it is a spectacular sight. Here you are in a cool urban neighborhood, and you glance over there, and there is a spectacular snow-capped mountain (even in summer; some snow remains).

Oregon has public access to all beaches so we've got that over our Northern Neighbor.

The grey skies do take some getting used to. We've lived here (meaning Portland) for 10 years and that is really my only complaint. Overall, we love it. I'm sorry, but it is waaay better than the Midwest. And yes, I've lived in the Midwest.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. I think there is something wonderful about every area of our country.

Like nothing beats the virgin pine forests of Northern Michigan. They are the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced...and the sand dunes are awe inspiring. I've just never felt at home here. :hi:

[Arugula Latte]

70. I know what you're saying.

I find the southwest spectacular, with the red dirt, rock formations, big skies, etc. Don't know that I'd feel at home there, though. I need an ocean.

BTW, we've got some pretty spectacular forests out here, as well, complete with moss, ferns, waterfalls and banana slugs the size of, well, bananas. :hi:

[flamingyouth]

55. It's great here!

I am a native and love it here. It's not for everyone, I know. Some people don't like the rainy winters (although we didn't really have one this past year).

Housing is expensive in Seattle and the surrounding areas, but outside the city it's not as bad.

PM me if you have any specific questions about neighborhoods, etc. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. I just got off the phone with MrG. We'd be looking around Kent.

:hi: Thanks Lisa!!

[flamingyouth]

61. Ask geniph

She lives down in the South King County area, right near there. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. Thank you Lisa! I'll do that!

:hi:

[Zuni]

71. that is where the Green River Killer lived

I read Ann Rule's book "Green River, Running Red" not to long ago and I remember the killer lived in Kent during his spree killing days.

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. Thank you Zuni...you have been such a big help!

:P

[Madrone]

69. I moved to WA from Kalamazoo Michigan.

I live on the eastern side of the cascades - about 84 miles from Seattle.

It is EXPENSIVE here. I know what you're used to, and believe me- it's expensive. Traffic on the west side (seattle and surrounding areas) is terrible - and overall, Washingtonians aren't very friendly.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it - and I'm enjoying my life (in a smaller town, away from the traffic nightmare), but after feeling it out since the fall of '98 I don't think I'm here to stay. It just doesn't feel *homey* - ya know?

[tigereye]

73. that's funny

because my friend who has lived there for 20 years tells me that many of the people there are transplants.. you would think they would be friendlier. Everyone was very nice when I visited a few times.

good luck in your decision, Mrs. G.

[Madrone]

76. It IS funny -

and it's hard to explain. It's very subtle. And it's statewide.

The way I usually describe it is that it's not an in-your-face "New York" style rudeness - it's more of a smile-to-your-face-while-nodding-and-not-listening-to-a-word-you're-saying-before turning-my-back-to-you-mid-sentence-and-walking-away type rudeness.

It's very bizarre, and it took me a long time to put my finger on it.

It's definitely different than the midwest vibe.

[uppityperson]

81. Saw a cartoon once comparing W/E coast attitudes

2 people walking past each other (same drawing for 2 panels)
East coast-voice "fuck you", thought balloon "have a nice day"
West coast-voice "have a nice day", thought balloon "fuck you"
I thought it funny. People can be friendly and cold at the same time but you figure it out and friends are really friendly. E coast manners drive me nuts. (note, I'm a midwesterner transplanted from Norwegian country to W coast)

[tigereye]

83. well it is interesting how

people can appear to be friendly and not be. I have a colleague who grew up in NYC who insists that Pittsburghers ( where I live) are not friendly at all. And I have another friend from NYC I met here who is one of the friendliest people I have ever met. Anecdotal, of course, but interesting. I guess it could also be an urban/suburban/ rural divide as well.

[tigereye]

82. is it akin to the Scandinavian shyness

people talk about? I have a friend who has lived in Denmark for many years and she talks about the Scandinavian "reserve" and how long it takes people to accept you. I had heard that there were many folks of Scandinavian origin who settled in the Pacific Northwest.

[FrankBooth]

75. It is about 75 degrees and sunny here today

a gorgeous day. Seattle weather is fantastic generally from April through mid-October, then it tends to be grey a lot. Housing prices are outrageous though, at least in the city itself, but nothing compared to San Francisco. I take it you are from Detroit, just so happens I have a couple of really good friends here in town originally from the Detroit area ... they initially ended up in the Bay area but moved up here after a year or so and have been here for about 10 years now.

And anyone who says Portland is better is out of their mind.

[tavalon]

78. Five years ago

as my marriage was ending, I decided to do some travel nursing. There were two places I had always wanted to check out. One was Seattle, the other San Francisco. So I did both. San Francisco is much more expensive than Seattle but Seattle ain't cheap. Seattle is drop dead gorgeous and the rain myth is meant to keep out the Californians. Yeah, it rains a lot here but usually it's just misty rain and the clouds move so fast here that even if it's raining in the morning, you can have blue skies by 1pm, followed by more clouds followed by a patch of rain and so on. Come June, it doesn't rain anymore until September. San Francisco I hated. I always thought I would love it but I didn't. It was way too urban in the city proper and yet the sprawl outside of the city was even worse. The traffic in San Fran is frightening. Now, the traffic in Seattle can also be frightening but not anywhere near as bad. Gridlock in Seattle seems to be confined to rush hour, not so in SF. Public transportation is far superior in SF, though Seattle folks think theirs is great. Seattlites are wrong about this.

Housing costs? For a three bedroom in San Francisco, you'll probably pay 500,000, in Seattle 325,000. So housing is mucho expensivo in both places.

Food prices in Seattle seem to be similar to Austin, TX, where I also live from time to time but Austin has the highest food prices in Texas so I have no idea how that would compare to Michigan. Food prices were higher in San Fran.

[uppityperson]

79. Move to Seattle.

I would love to meet you in person. SF is more expensive and the rain in Seattle is mostly publicity. It is grey more than it rains, but it is tolerable. Seattle area is smaller than SF, there are places somewhat outlying that are more affordable. Olympic and Cascade mts here are good, not quite as much chance of earthquakes, but still it's there. Gregoire is governer vs Arnir. Move to Seattle. Grumpys and Uppitys in 1 place, fun.

[Ariana Celeste]

84. I'd give anything to move back to WA.

Things are more expensive, sure... but they also have the highest min. wage in the country. So it's relative to the amount people get paid.

WA is the most beautiful state (imo) in the country. I miss it so much!! It's my home, and everything else pales in comparison.

:: sighs ::

:cry: