Never thought I'd say this...

[WilliamPitt]

...but, with only a few informational exceptions, I am only posting in here from now on.

No GD. No GD/Politics. No ATA.

Only here.

DU ain't the place it used to be. Once upon a time, participating on DU made me feel hopeful about the situation in America, that there were allies all around and we could be strong together.

Ain't that way no more. Reading anything other than the Lounge nowadays just brings on a sick feeling of despair...and not about Republicans, either. So I'm a Lounge Lizard from here on out. Let the rest of 'em take out their angst on each other. I got better ways to out my rage.

:toast:

[progmom]

1. hang with us for awhile

But I bet you'll get a GD jones after awhile. And we'll understand.

[RetroLounge]

2. Sorry, you're not a lounge lizard until you add the sig pic

Feel free to take mine!

RL

p.s. I agree with your post too.

[Goathead]

29. I swear to proverbial god.

I was going to put that in my sundog tagline. I love Magritte.:toast: :hi:

[RetroLounge]

102. Glad to see someone saw it!

:hi:

RL

[BigMcLargehuge]

3. I was in GD today

Note, I'm the one on the bell tower.

Welcome to the lounge Will.

[JimmyJazz]

8. The problem is: once you become a lizard,

you can NEVER go back :o

[BigMcLargehuge]

11. It's true!

I went in looking like this -



And came out like this -



FECK!

That'll teach me to jump into a religious fraccas!

[JimmyJazz]

20. Erm - I know for a fact that you are much cuter than

either of those two :D

[fishnfla]

108. *snark* Good one!

:thumbsup: :applause:

[Zuni]

17. so true

the lounge is so much more fun and pleasant than GD, I can hardly bear to even look at it over there

[radfringe]

74. guess I missed it all

my work schedule had changed so my postings have been limited to early morning "fly-by's"

I did take some time this morning to peruse the "religion war" going on and find it both amusing and disconserting

Since the repugs have seized power they have divided up the country into tiny factions under the guise of "uniting" the country.

If you objected to bush*'s selection in 2000 -- you were unpatriotic

If you have problems with bush*'s social security scam - then you are racially bias because blacks get less out of social security than whites

If you had a problem with a particular judicial nominee than you are prejudice against women, hispanics, blacks etc...

If you had a problem with Terry Shaivio's feeding tube removed -- then you are anti-life

Now they have put down the flag and taken up the bible -- object to THEIR views and you are anti-christian.

from the postings I read -- many of us have taken that bait and the repugs have won -- we're divided, and divided we fall

wake up people -- religion is a personal freedom to celebrate (or not) as each of us chooses - it is NOT and SHOULD NOT be in the hands of Politicians to be used as a political tool

[LynzM]

81. Great post, RadFringe

I think you should repost that, in its entirety, in GD, actually. Oh, and bold the last line, especially. You're so right.

[radfringe]

98. thanks -- taking your suggestion and posting it in GD

and putting on some flame-proof longjohns...

[AuntiBush]

118. Jeez... You are Right on the Money!

Well, what's left of our bucks, anyway. Seriously, well stated.

Especially, with regards to the "uniting," comment. Like hell. We're on the verge of the great divide. When I'm at, it's already at that point.

[7th_Sephiroth]

156. Ah Yojimbo

rubber hand in a dogs mouth since 1962

[JohnKleeb]

4. Welcome home

:P

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. Will, after talking to a fellow DUer, and dear friend on the phone this

evening...I am hopeful that we can still work together for a better future...and....

...that the slimeballs in GD will get tired and leave.

:toast: But it is fun here!

[Zuni]

6. Join the club

the people in GD have gone nuts! They are a venomous pack of jackals who get crazier every day! :crazy:

Will, hang in here, take a load off and have a beer with us lounge lizards :beer:

[Abelman]

7. What are you talking about?

You mean there's other forums besides the Lounge?

News to me!

[Maddy McCall]

9. What happened?

Yeah, I agree. It ain't the same place it used to be. Misunderestimator was right with her post a couple of months ago.

I can't put a finger on it, but something has changed.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Buncha stuff

Not any one thing. Just kinda...yeech.

[Maddy McCall]

68. So you have a case of ...

DU Dispepsia. Or DUspepsia. :D

Me, too. Maybe it's the growth of the site, and the influx of people who didn't know how it was a couple of years ago. Or even three or four years ago. :shrug:

[autorank]

10. Sorry to hear that, but you're still writing...that's the main point!

...but where else can you learn phrases like Bungholio Bush?

[MrScorpio]

12. This is the only place to be, Will

I figured that out a long time ago

[imenja]

13. I know how you feel

It makes me think there is no difference between some on the left and right.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. These are hard times, Will

A lot of people are freaking out. It's understandable.

I see a change in DU also. But I still am so thankful for this site. It is a glimmer of hope to those of us in red state hell. In spite of the changes, it is still a far better alternative than any other media out there.

[Amaya]

15. You finally get it!

:)

[Dave Reynolds]

16. I may be rude to say this,

but a fundamentalist mentality has reared it's ugly head in GD, complete with the persecution complexes and brutal suppression of dissent.

I mainly go there now to fuck with people, saves me from logging into FR.

[Zuni]

19. that is why I do not go there no more

there are way too many zealot types

[Robeson]

26. Yes, there is a lot of dividing into camps lately, instead of sharing...

...and respecting diverse opinions. Seems to be some "your either for me, or agin' me" stuff going on....

[imenja]

55. that is a canard

The complaints have been about hate speech, not dissent. If your idea of free and appropriate speech is hateful rhetoric, that is very sad indeed. I object to no thoughtful and informed expression of dissent. What I despise is bigotry of all kinds, against homosexuals, Germans, Catholics, women, everyone. That is a fundamental principle of progressivism. If we can't practice that, what are we anyway?

If I were a mean-spirited homophobic person, I could use a variety of epithets to denounce those different from me. I cannot and will not, even to illustrate a point. Yet some on DU argue that if that if I object to their calling me a Nazi whore, I'm stifling dissent. If I point out the fact they are resurrecting nineteenth-century nativist, anti-Papist arguments in the tradition of the Know Nothings, I'm stifling dissent. One person went so far as to say Catholics should not be allowed to speak on this website. What principle would that person be upholding? There is a very strange notion of progressive politics going on here. If that is your idea of what it means to be a Democrat, you bar is very low.

[Dave Reynolds]

97. I guess you need to remind me of when I peed in your cornflakes,

I musta been drunk or somethin...

I'm afraid I DO hold a bit of predjudice against anyone who thinks that a good discussion is helped along with "fuck hunting" or "babies are high in B12, why don't you eat one" and things like that. Those are the type of people I amuse myself with, just to see what kind of bullshit they spew forth.

I will never post anything that I would not say to someone's face.

Stupidity, in my small, narrow mind at least, is exempt from politeness.

:hi:

[imenja]

103. what the fuck are you talking about?

There must be something a lot stronger than piss in your cornflakes.

[Dave Reynolds]

124. I prefer Vodka on mine....

sorry, I mistook your post for a scolding.

As I have mentioned other places before, I am stoopid, and an asshole.
Again, sorry.

Now, back to the vodka, and this time I'm skipping the fuggin' cornflakes....

[Califooyah Operative]

120. you hit the nail on the head.

I used to stay away, but I still go there these days, I don't let it bother me, but regardless, things have changed for sure.

[Dave Reynolds]

125. I am in the process

of trying to develop a better attitude about it. I just need to have fun with folks and not dive into deep idealogical chasms.

[MidwestMomma]

18. It's all about respect

We don't even have it for each other anymore. (That's how I feel sometimes anyway.)

It's like...You don't agree with me, you're stupid. Oh yeah, and your mom is probably stupid and you come from a long line of stupids.

That's the feeling I get from the world in general and sadly, from DU sometimes too.

I went from a GD politics addict to a lounge lurker myself. Welcome to the club. :)

[October]

21. There's so much anger there...every thread it seems

Is there room for one more here in the lounge?

What are the requirements?

[MADem]

34. I am flabbergasted at the "deliberate misunderstandings"

You know, the fights that start out: Well, you KNOW that calling someone a 'flodnik' is a (racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-whatever) remark. Then, when the person says, gee, sorry, didn't know, I thought flodnik was a term of endearment, but even after that the easily offended party STILL WON'T LET IT GO.

I also don't go for the people who deliberately try to shit on someone's perceptions for sheer mean sport (only a stupid fillintheblank would believe fillintheblank!!!!), but when it happens accidentally, or through genuine ignorance, you can usually catch more flies with honey than vinegar. A simple, gee, that ain't nice, as opposed to "You and all of your family are SCUM I say!" might work...and sometimes, people just can't agree. Whatever happened to "I don't agree?" There's way too much of this "You evil Nazi, you MUST agree with MEEEEE!"

I guess people are all on edge, these sure aren't good times, are they?

Oh well, everyone seems pissed off lately. I guess it is better to be pissed off than pissed on, but I long for happier days...!

[October]

83. I concur

The name-calling is exhausting. Where once it was a place of refuge...now I feel tense when I visit.

I home-school my daughter because she's an aspiring ballerina who dances more than 20 hours a week. It's an efficient use of time, and she's self-disciplined enough to get her work done independently with our supervision. Anyway, we're not religious. We're not anti-public school. We're not weirdo anti-social freaks...but you can imagine the "feedback" I encountered after my post. I stayed calm, and I have to say that a handful of people thanked me. They said they'd never thought of homeschooling for the reasons I'd mentioned, and they were glad to have my perspective and felt somewhat enlightened. That truly gave me hope, but it was the great majority of posts that attacked, assumed and assigned all kinds of issues to me.

DU is still a main source for me as far as late-breaking news and such...but I truly feel bad about the turn GD has taken. I peek in on them once in awhile, but rarely post. (I think people have me on "ignore" any way.)

And you're right. These times are hellish...it's nonstop trying to respond to every lie/scandal coming out of Washington. It's tiring. People are rightfully angry.

Maybe I give * et al too much credit when I say that I think it's just what they wanted. I can't help it though...they've flaunted their mistakes, lies and such...as if they know we couldn't possibly respond effectively to all of it. GD is a microcosm of how we are failing at a cohesive response.

Thanks for posting.

[MADem]

95. Isn't it a shame!

A bit off the trajectory, I don't see anything wrong with homeschooling if it serves the needs of the parents and children and the kids actually do the work. A few excessive kooks who have some strange ideas have made the whole process somehow evil, when it isn't that at all. If I had school age kids and lived in FL, I would either homeschool or send the kids to Catholic school, because I don't think the FL schools are very good, frankly.

Well, there's a trick to consolidating power. You get your enemy fighting amongst themselves, divide them, pick them off one by one, and conquer. I prefer to try to focus on the things we have in common, because a united front is the only way we are gonna get these clowns gone from government!

[October]

115. I was nervous when I saw I had replies to my post...

Doesn't that say a lot.

Thank you for your post. There are a lot of reasons to home-school. And a lot of reasons to stay here in the Lounge. <wink>

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

140. I definitely see the value of doing it when the parent is smart enough

to teach the child - and some are homeschooling to get away from the fundamentalist takeovers in the public schools

[skygazer]

96. You've hit on something that is pretty central to my reasons

for staying in the Lounge most of the time. There is an incredibly judgmental spirit going on right in GD and GDPol. We've always been an opinionated bunch but there's some real venomous judging going on amongst each other rather than directed outward. Your comments about homeschooling illustrate that perfectly.

(I too homeschooled one of my daughters for a year - she'd been having some serious social problems at school and was not comfortable there at all. I homeschooled her for her 8th grade year and we both found it very fulfilling. She elected to return to the public school the following year but I would never condemn someone simply because they chose to teach their own child at home. Both she and I learned so much from the experience and when she returned, she was ahead of her class in all her subjects).

[October]

116. Indeed

I'm really happy for you and your daughter! That's great. What a great parent to help your daughter through a tough time. And the fact that she felt strong enough to return and had such success is a testament to both of you. Brava.

I keep telling my daughter that she can return to public school if ever she wants...and at this point, she said she never wants to return. She loves that she can ask as many questions as she wants/needs till she is satisfied that she understands. And because she finished a required Health course early, she added another language (Russian) to her curriculum. She studies French, too. To her, a whole new academic world opened up...she's incredibly happy and motivated to study all kinds of subjects. Isn't that something!

I'm sure it's not for everyone, but she just happens to be a very self-disciplined and self-motivated. I'm a stay-home Mom and an artist...so this has been truly wonderful for the entire family. My younger son is happy in school for now...we'll see.

As I stated in another post, I was actually a little nervous when I saw I had 2 replies. It seems I needn't have worried here in the Lounge.

[October]

117. Didn't mean to "hijack" your threat, Will...sorry

Got carried away there with a couple of posts...

[FizzFuzz]

126. "flodnik"--I love it!

:rofl:

I hope I can remember that, I love the sound of it

But aside from that--gee I've been trying to reduce my time on DU (DU addiction; must...get..under control...arrrgh). I guess I must be missing the festivities in GD. I've seen some jerky stuff and some stuff that pisses me off for sure but I think I missed this serious garbage you're talking about here. Thankfully.

[tammywammy]

22. I know I'm still pretty new here

But I was a long time lurker of GD (about 8 months or so before I signed up to post). But I'll read in GD, but it does get somewhat vicious. I don't mind when someone disagrees with me, but don't call me names or stupid. So, now I just really post mostly in the lounge.

[VelmaD]

24. I know what you mean...

This place isn't the same. Even the Lounge isn't what it used to be. GD will be poorer for the lack of your voice.

If you need to talk I'm around. PM me. :hug:

[enigmatic]

25. GD needs an enema, and quick...

All the screamers on both sides of the Pope threads need to seriously log off and rejoin Planet Earth as soon as possible. And that goes for the "I'm being persucuted" crowd, too.

There are millions of things to get worked up by in the world; words on a screen by a poster on an internet message board isn't one of them, as indispensible as DU is.

[InvisibleTouch]

27. I got addicted to DU during last year's primaries...

...but I'm mostly in the Lounge these days myself. That, and some of the select DU Groups. With an occasional forray into another forum if a thread title catches my attention on the Greatest Page or latest-breaking summary.

I think a lot of us will venture back into other forums as a new round of elections draws near. Meanwhile, the Lounge is a good place. Make yourself at home. :)

[Redstone]

28. Why not?

No reason to make any apologies or offer any explanations.

Redstone

[TroubleMan]

30. Remember that there are Freepers and some others purposefully trolling

There's a website who's main point is to troll and cause discontent here.

Some of those posts you don't like are probably from them (at least I'm hoping).

[WilliamPitt]

32. No

If they are Freepers, they've been here as long as I have.

No, these are DUers in 'good standing,' such as it is.

Alas. Whatever. Pass the punch.

[JohnnyCougar]

31. Will,

I am growing disinterested with this site as well. I feel as if I cannot post anything unless it directly reacts to the Republican agenda without being attacked myself.

Independent thought has given way to flame-fests where you are a freeper unless you are on the totally ideologically opposite side that Bush is on. This is no way to handle a discussion.

There are selct people on here that team up and harass people who do not adhere to the 100% anti-Bush, all the time rhetoric. Personally, I despise the man, but that does not cloud my head when it comes to thinking rationally, and not reactionally.

Perhaps it is just pent up rage left over from the election, but it's getting a little bit long now for it to have subsided. I hope the best for this site. Perhaps it will come around again.

[MuseRider]

33. I dearly love this place but

lately I find myself wishing some people here would grow the fuck up and quit acting like spoiled 2 year olds. Gotta jump hard all over every single thing without thinking about anyone else. And fer christ sakes the primary is over and the hero worship is freaking me out. Of course, I have never acted poorly :shrug: still. The lounge isn't for me either, I am not the popular type and feel uncomfortable here, not sure what to do. I think I will just sleep now, maybe tomorrow will dawn with a different outlook. I sure hope so.

[MADem]

36. Oh come on, you are popular!!!

Everyone LOVES your horn!!!!!!

Go ahead and toot it! It's your own horn, after all!!!:evilgrin: :toast: :woohoo:

[MuseRider]

37. Ahhhhhh

I am feeling sorry for myself tonight. Thanks. I keep plugging away here and have made a few very good friends so pity me not, I'm just bummed and THANKS, I feel better already. :hug:

[Robeson]

38. Don't feel uncomfortable. You're posts are good, and you don't....

...have to worry about being "popular". Whatever you say is appreciated, and part of the deal, is just reading what others say. Just remember, this is a group of people, who push the same button you do, when you go into a voting booth. And, I would hate to miss that picture in your sig line.... :hug:

[MuseRider]

40. Good Grief!

OK! I feel 100% better now. You guys are great. Really, I am just having a poor me moment but it is passing now. I usually try not to do that but damn, sometimes.......:hug: and thanks.

[Robeson]

41. See? And you thought nobody was paying attention.....

....;-)

[MuseRider]

44. I did and now

I know better. :pals:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

39. My dear MuseRider!

Please don't go away! I would definitely miss your thinking, and of course, your beautiful clarinet! It is so graceful and ornate and it adds a "Je ne sais quois." to the Lounge...Maybe you need a little break, or post less often, but please don't leave!

You are certainly popular with a number of us, here...:cry:

:grouphug:

[MuseRider]

43. Now I am getting a big head.

Actually, I could no more leave this place than I could my own home anymore. As I said to the others who answered to make me feel better, I was wallowing the moment I read this thread and oops, it slipped out this time.

Last night we had a fabulous meet up where I met some of the DUers around the area and I could not have been happier, I had such a great time with some really great people. I guess it made today seem a little bland and cheerless. Thanks, you are so nice. :hug:

[fleabert]

35. good to have you, I'll give you updates and snippets from elsewhere if

you like! I only venture in occasionally. :-) well, I lurk every day, but participate here more.

[norml]

42. The great thing about declarations is you can always go back on them.

You're tougher than this. Maybe you're just run down? I think you may tire of just trivia after a while, but at least this isn't one of those "I'm Leaving DU" or an "I'm Withdrawing My Funding" threads. I thank you much for that. When you go back to the more serious forums, try not to be so bothered by those who post things you consider nonsense. Try to have some detachment, and to set a more positive example instead.

[Glenda]

45. You need to chill with us dude

Then you can decide whether or not to go back to the bad bad place :)

:dilemma:

[stevedeshazer]

46. I'm pissed

I had your back for three years.

Don't puss out now. It's just gittin good. :shrug:

[Goathead]

60. I agree,

I think it might get REAL good around here in the next week or so.

[LynzM]

82. That's an awesome sig picture

Love it.

[Ladyhawk]

47. I'm an atheist and I'm sick of the religious flame wars.

If it's any consolation, Will, it isn't all bad. I've participated in some threads where atheists and agnostics and religious folks reached out to one another.

The recent flames in GD scare me.

LH

[Robeson]

59. I don't know where the line should be drawn, Ladyhawk....

...as much as I might want to agree with you, I've seen some post, and been involved in some post on the other boards, where I didn't really think it was out-of-line at all, and all the sudden, they got locked. So how does one determine that kind of thing. Sometimes, it seems that the mods are on target, then sometimes, they seem to over-react, probably based on how many people are bitching at them to lock a thread down....:shrug:

[zooloobush]

48. Hi Will, I am new here as a poster but have lurcked for a while.

I understand your discouragment with the other forums but you are a wonderful motivator. I think you will get outta this funk soon, as you sound like you had a few tonight...lol.


Like I said I don't post much but you are a neccesity on the political forums.

Enjoy your vacation.

zooloo

[intheflow]

106. Hi, zooloobush.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[bling bling]

49. Maybe you could make it better.

GD has been chaotic lately and I've been pondering why. There are probably many reasons for it, among them:

1) We live in hell.
2) We have four more years of hell.
3) We feel very alone here in hell.


The Republicans have Fox News and talk radio validating their anger - speaking out for them day in and day out. This enables them to stay focused and on-topic. It's cathartic. They feel sane because their viewpoints are validated and broadcast to the country every day.

What do we have? Some occassional thought provoking threads from you and a handful of other DUers, A handful of threads daily from KOS and other blogs, Olbermann for an hour a day (and he's just reporting the news without a conservative slant), and John Stuart for 30 minutes four days a week. Hell, I've even put the freaking Onion on my list of "newspapers" that I read, because it's more like reality than satire anymore. I hungrily await the "toons" threads.

It's sad.

We literally salivate over things like editorial columns from newspapers we've never heard of that are brave enough to report the truth.

We have a coupla Senators that we cling to for dear life because they represent our party.

That's it. It sucks to be a Democrat right now, in soooo many ways and on soooo many levels.

But, there's potential here. I've seen many posts by you in the GD forum that I didn't agree with at first but then made me think about it and alter my opinion, albeit slightly.

There's potential there for people to start and discuss topics that AREN'T mere replications of topics already spoon-fed to us by the media. But it would take thought and creativity and of course it helps if the author is someone who tends to draw an audience.

[WilliamPitt]

62. I am zero for lifetime

in my attempts to 'try and make things better.' Almost always when I say something, I get tagged with tryiung to 'stifle conversation.' Maybe they're right to say that. Regardless, my attempts at playing King Canute have always met with predictable results.

It's gonna do what it's gonna do, and it'll get better. This isn't the first time things here have driven me up a wall. Won't be the last. In the meantime, I've got a lot of work to do tomorrow and a whole shitload of DUers coming to town this weekend, so it's gonna do what it's gonna do without me until Monday. :)

[housewolf]

70. Will, is this the bunny-suit weekend????

it is, isn't it?


Well, that explains it then.

[imenja]

73. you made it clear that was not what you were doing

in your ATA posts. The stifle conversation is nothing but a cheap excuse.

[suziedemocrat]

110. What is ATA? Ask the Administrators? n/t

[imenja]

142. yes

[LibraLiz1973]

119. I had to laugh at this: "I am zero for lifetime"

I understand where your coming from with that!

[Ladyhawk]

50. Question: I saw your appeal for civility.

Do you think those of us who are not happy with the flame wars could appeal to Skinner for some kind of new rule? I hate to clamp down on discourse, but I don't like the "feel" of GD these days.

:shrug:

Any ideas?????

[WilliamPitt]

64. Well

and I'm not sure if I am speaking out of school here, but I get the sense that Skinner is as fed up with the crap around here as a lot of us are. The admins had that Clark thing blaze up on them this week, and that got personal. Now we have religious warfare board-wide.

There are a ton of requests exactly like you describe down in ATA. You'll notice the Admins have not responded to any of them for a couple of days. They *never* do that; those guys are always on top of those posts. They're not ingnoring us. They're working on something.

I think maybe we're going to hear from the Blue Man Group soon, and all the issues will be addressed in one fell swoop. Bookmark this post, and we'll see if I'm right. But in the past, when the Good Ship Skinner goes dark and silent in times of goofiness, that usually means a torpedo is about to be fired.

[Ladyhawk]

67. I hope he can think of something that will allow open discourse

and still dowse some of the flames. Many personalities and egos are involved. A lot of people on all sides have been hurt or have become extremely angry. The thing is, I still like and care about people who have become involved in the flame wars and can agree with certain points of view from various sides of the religion issue. What I don't like are ad hominem attacks on individuals. Sigh.

Like I said, I've stayed out of the religious wars because I knew there would be flames. I was deeply hurt by the fundamentalist religion of my childhood and didn't feel comfortable wading into the fray. Either I would have hurt someone or someone would have hurt me. It would have been inevitable.

I'm usually not into causing or receiving pain. :(

After an exchange with RevCheesehead, I was thinking about asking for a special forum where the religious and non-religious can build a coalition. We need to realize that we agree on most of the important issues. Petty squabbling over our various world views isn't likely to change minds, but is likely to drive a wedge between us. In the forum, debate over world views would be verboten. We could discuss world views, I suppose, but I was mostly wanting to find issues that all of us consider important and--dear, sweet Jesus!--forget the fact we don't share the same religion.

Is that too much to ask?

[SW FL Dem]

51. Sad to say I agree with you

I found myself reading AOL message boards tonight because I found them more in line with my views. What the hell is happening to DU? P

[Bake]

52. I feel your pain, my Brother!

I've been here since close to the beginning, and I feel like an alien around here. The Lounge it is for me, too.

Bake

[yewberry]

53. You don't know me, I don't know you.

However, you ARE one of the reasons I am proud to be a Masshole (I'm originally from Melrose--worse, I lived in "Live-Free-or-Die-Land for several years. Don't try to sell me a party line!)

We're independent thinkers, we're frustrating because we insist upon taking seriously opposing viewpoints. Not just contrarians for the sake of being so, but genuinely invested in looking at issues from more than one angle.

Take a little time. Not a bad thing.

Plus, you still have the. best. t-shirt. ever.
(jealous! :grr: )

[autorank]

54. I have the answer!

People are a bit more on edge around here lately and GD is where most of that happens. I figured out why!

When you have global political and cultural forces that produce Bush, Blair, Kim Il Sung, WhoevertheFuck runs China, Berlusconi AND THEN

PRODUCES A POPE WHO (A) THINKS ALL THE OTHER RELIGIONS SUCK, AND SUCK IT HARD; (B) HARASSES GOOD MEN AND WOMEN OF THE CHURCH IN LATIN AMERICA WHO FIGHT FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE; AND (C) USED TO BE IN HITLER YOUTH AND THE WWII GERMAN ARMY

THEN THINGS ARE BOUND TO BE WOUND WAY TOO TIGHT.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE JUST BLOWING OFF STEAM AND THAT IT'S TEMPORARY.


PS. I used the term Luddite the other day in the pejorative sense and I was smacked down, by someone serious about the smack, for disparaging that particular group. :rofl:

[rockymountaindem]

57. HEY!!!

I'm a Luddite, my father was a Luddite, and my father's father was a Luddite!!! You fuck with the Luddites, buddy, and you fuck with me!

I'm gonna tear you a new one you anti-Luddite bigot...

[autorank]

61. "HEyHEY!!!"

You are obviously the progeny of an atavistic bunch of ass-effing assholes who reverted to normal intercourse only to produce Luddite "morans" like you. I'll meet you at the end of the unpaved, unlit, muddy road which you will walk in your bare feet...or we could have a cyber slug-fest, which would prove to all you're no Luddite (I know Luddites; Luddites are friends of mine: and you're no Luddite!).

:grr::toast::grr:

[GirlinContempt]

56. Aw

:hug:

[flaminbats]

58. no kidding..

tonight this place is truly dead, where did all the flowers go? :boring:

[Andy_Stephenson]

63. Kiss

:loveya:

[WilliamPitt]

65. HEY!

What's the story, morning glory?

[LoZoccolo]

89. Good album.

:+

[Writer]

66. GD and GD/Politics are like a night with a very hot, but demanding date

Let's say, a date with Jennifer Lopez. You go out with her, she looks great, and you have a little fun. Then you decide to strike a conversation, but she ignores you and begins to get demanding. She orders you to buy her a vanilla milkshake, so you start scrambling all over creation finding a place that sells vanilla milkshakes. You can't locate one so she orders you to drop her off at her place. Of course, she flicks you off when she leaves the car because YOU'VE done something wrong.

End of date.

Yeah, sort of like that.

Writer.

[LoZoccolo]

92. J-LO MILKSHAKE STORY BA HA HA HA HA!

:thumbsup: :yourock:

Personally, I think it's just an urban legend, but I thought it was so funny when I heard it!

[Writer]

138. I believe ALL of it.

I bumped into a makeup artist on a subway in NYC some years ago who said that another make-up artist friend had worked on her and said that she is very mean person.

I've dealt with a few J. Lo's in my life and I've seen worse.

Like this for instance - some years ago myself, my husband, his brother, and his brother's wife go to a very fancy seafood restaurant. My husband's sister-in-law, who is Hispanic and literally believes herself to be J. Lo's protege, started asking the waiter to find a way to better light our table, which was dim because we were, well, in a fancy, dimly lit restaurant.

Here's the exchange:

Waiter: "Ma'am?"

J. Lo's Protege: "My table's too dark."

W: "Yes the lighting here is dim."

J: "Yes but my table's too dark."

The waiter paws a light sconce close to the table. "I can twist this light around a bit, but I don't know what else I can do."

J: "Well it's too dark (whimpering) and I can see my shadow!"

All of us (EXTREMELY embarrassed) to the waiter: "It's okay." "We're fine." "No, really, DON'T worry about it."

Oh the J. Lo's of this world.

Writer.

[housewolf]

69. What about just not engaging, over there?

What about just going over, reading what you want to read, posting what you want to post and not engaging with those into chaos?

The whole world is nuts right now, why would DU be any different?

[hunter]

71. Oh damn, I wasn't Raptured.

That explains everything. A hundred and forty four thousand good souls ascend bodily into heaven, and nobody on this great turd-pile of a planet even notices. Maybe some of them used to post here on DU, but how the hell would I know?

[rppper]

72. thank you will.......

i'll try not to sound patronizing here, but you have alwys had a finger on the pulse of this place from the get go. i have been here since the begining as well, and you are 100% on the money. i have managed to avoid the pope threads because i am not a catholic and it really holds no water for me, but the "mann coulter" threads drained me.....someone else said it before my post...even after someone legitimatly says "i'm sorry", it seems that others with thinner skin can not seem to let it go and forgive and forget....it seems like we have turned into the very beast we have tried for 6 long years to battle...my way or the highway...no quarter...some posters and groups of posters have forgotten that we as liberals, and yes that includes moderates and far lefties too, are the party of understanding, forgivness and progressivness. i will go as far as to say some have become out and out hypocrites. we all need to take a long look in the mirror, because we are biting the bait the right has left for us...hook, line and sinker. i hope we wake up, or we are forever doomed to our current position.....

just my .02

[GalleryGod]

75. What BETTER time to have 45 Drinkin' DUers Arrive in Boston!

:beer: Zounds "like a plan" to me, Pope !? :popcorn: :rofl:

[Seabiscuit]

76. Welcome, Will!

The Lounge is where it's at.

I discovered this shortly after the November election.

LBN, GD and GD Politics degenerated into sniper fights since then.

[Maestro]

77. I've been involved in GD lately

and I have been surprised by the blantently conservative postings there. People protecting typical rethuglican talking points really. It's disgusting, but there is something in me that makes me post when I read points like that being posted. Argh!!!! I come here to chill. Are you still posting nekkid, Will?

[sniffa]

78. p'shaw

fires need acceLerant, so i go there often. :evilgrin:

[curse10]

79. Welcome to the club, Will

trust me, your blood pressure will drop. It's healthier in here :-)

[NewJeffCT]

80. I've seen other old-timers with similar sentiments

And, while I've been here for only a little over 18 months, I tend to agree with you guys. Since the election, things have changed around here... and, unfortunately, not for the better. Prior to the election, if I asked for some input on a LTTE or to respond to a Freeper-type email, I would get some pretty good responses. Since then, helpful responses are much rarer.

Unfortunately, I think it's just a longer than normal period of mourning/depression/denial/lashing out/rage after four long years of buildup to the "Most Important Election of Our Lifetimes." So many of us were so sure of victory, that we're still having trouble dealing with the aftermath. Heck, I'm normally one of the biggest pessimists I know, and I even got caught up in the optimism of DU last year. (I even started my own thread, which is still rare for me, like 2 weeks before the election that said I was optimistic.

[Redstone]

84. I like a good argument, but there are too many threadstalkers

lately (and I don't think it's just me).

Definition of threadstalker as opposed to a flamer (hypothetical example):

Original Post: Should black people be angry at whites about slavery?

You: I'm black, but can't be angry at American whites about slavery. I immigrated to the US in 1990 from Nigeria, so my ancestors were never slaves here.

Stalker: So you're saying it's OK for white Americans to have black slaves? You're saying slavery is RIGHT??

You: No, I'm not. Just saying I'm not angry at whites, because slavery in America hasn't affected me.

Stalker: You didn't answer the QUESTION! Do you think slavery is OK, or not?

You: Of course, I think slavery is wrong. It just hasn't had any effect on me, so I'm not angry at white people about it. Besides, none of the white people I know own any slaves.

Stalker: So you're saying that because white people TODAY don't have slaves, it was just FINE AND DANDY that there WAS slavery in America?

You: Silence.

Stalker: Well, I can't HEAR you! Are you going to answer my question or not? Well?

You: Silence.

You (answering another poster whose ancestors were slaves in South Carolina): I see your point. If my ancestors had the experience that yours did, I might feel that way myself.

Stalker: Oh, so it's OK for YOU to say that slavery is justified and wonderful, even if someone who is descended from slaves says otherwise? I can see why you're afraid to answer my question. What do you have to say to that, huh? Well? Are you afraid of the TRUTH, or are you not really black like you say you are?? Well? Huh?

And so on, following you from thread to thread and following up via PM in extreme cases. The ones with a bug up their nose about immigration seem to be second only to the Gun Nuts in persistence.

Redstone

Edit: Oops. I meant "good" argument, not "god" argument. No way I'm going to get into a God argument, not me.

[LoZoccolo]

85. I agree about the downhill slide of this place; here's what I've done.

I've been trying liberal use of the ignore button. I think I have 130 or more people on ignore right now. I've been trying to get to the problem at the root, and trying to get GD to fall into place more for me, though I still don't like going there. There are a few people every now and then that post useful information, even though even that seems to be on the wane (perhaps they get discouraged by the flood of useless or detrimental garbage). However, I'm even losing confidence in this strategy, and DU might very well crash under the weight of the database queries required if everyone did this.

I've been coming to the realization that it might just be the nature of the Internet which makes things fall apart. A person gets a certain amount of attention here no matter how socially inept they are; that doesn't happen in real life. In real life, self-serving rants are seen as a waste of time, and people in a group work to exclude them from a discussion; here, that's not so. It's harder to be rude and inflammatory in real life to someone that's right in front of you, than it is here.

Also contributing to this, I think, is the fact that a lot of people who spend a lot of time on the Internet let things happen to them rather than make things happen. It's a passive form of activism (if there could be such a thing) to sit and complain about things rather than get involved. As such, we see all sorts of impractical strategies proposed (letting the Republicans win to teach the Democrats a lesson, alienating religious voters), and all sorts of ineffective tactics (abrasiveness, verbal abuse), because people are perhaps incompetent in effecting real-world change through lack of engagement, so far removed from the real world and thus the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of what they propose or do. I also think that their frustration is compounded by their lack of effect, or percieved lack of effect on the real world, contributing to some very rabid sentiments.

In Chicago, my friend Leo puts together meetups to get us involved in local events of interest to Democrats; at the last meeting, someone started acting much like someone acts when they post here, using up everyone's time to satiate his frustration, and everyone kind-of ganged up on him, however subtly, for interrupting what we had come there to do, and playing games in an attempt to get attention drawn to him. The social mechanisms we used to get try to get back on track don't exist here.

Do what you have to to protect your activist time; I've always known you as a doer, and not just a DUer, a rhino and not a cow, so that time is valuable.

[underpants]

86. Democrats Killed Christ

http://www.mightymiddle.com/index.php?/archives/60-Democrats-Killed-Christ.html#extended

[MissB]

87. I used to think that the people that posted only in the Lounge

were, um, odd. Wusses even.

I saw the light a few months ago. I've taken up residence in mostly the Lounge, with a few exceptions. The last few posts I've made on GD were apparently to trolls. :rofl:

Hope you still post your links to Truthout in GD. Those are always the best threads.

[greatauntoftriplets]

88. Join the club....

It gets :scared: out there.

[miss_kitty]

90. I came to that conclusion when I first got here

I used to admin on a small site that closed, and was all over introducing people to Democracy Now!, Counterpunch and other lefty stuff but here-meh. Too many people, too many fucked up agendas masquerading as 'progressive'. Fock it.

[LynneSin]

91. You know, there have always been assholes, I just let them roll off

GD is still one of the best forums out there! If anything it helps toughen me for the upcoming battles we'll have to fight

[Kevin Spidel]

93. no more Will in GD ....

only one thing to say about that

:hurts:

[UrbScotty]

94. I rarely go there either.

But I suspect I will more often.

[redqueen]

99. Wowzers, Will.

Glad you'll keep writing. :)

I venture out of here a few times a day... it's tiring.

[NV Whino]

100. I have an idea

How about a Flame Forum... or a Fight Club? Post any subject as long as you're looking for a fight. Then we can get GD back to civilized discussions and hide the fight threads. Someone starts flaming, the mods move them to the Fight Club.

[Deja Q]

101. Seconded.

Too easy to be called a freeper over there, and for what?!

Paranoia runs rampant, I'd rather drink tea.

And nominated.

[LoZoccolo]

107. Is that a rendition of you at the bottom?

I'd say you put the most effort into your varied sigs out of anyone here! :thumbsup: :toast:

[Deja Q]

130. South Park style, but yes. I'll admit there's a certain charm to S. Park,

that quite defies description! :D

Thanks!

[katinmn]

104. Why would you lounge lizards nominate this for greatest page?

Can't stay away?

Come on people. BUCK UP.

This is a political discussion board.

Politics isn't for the thin skinned.

Not everybody is gonna agree with you all the time.

DU is the best place for liberals to learn, share and kick some virtual ass.

You have ignore and alert buttons. Use 'em!

[cornermouse]

105. If I have offfended you then I apologize.

I didn't mean to.

[HEyHEY]

109. Welcome to where all the truly smart people hang

We understand the futility of GD arguments

[bigwillq]

111. YIPPEE!

:bounce: :party: :woohoo:

[AuntiBush]

112. Hang in there Will. You're the most respected.

Maybe you need a break. Burnt out and who could blame you.

"Better to have tried, then never to have tried at all..." If you want to Lounge Liz around, I couldn't think of better company to hang with.

:pals: Always, to me. You were my first true-news find out here after Nov 3rd, 2004. Can't forget you for that.

P.S. Noticed something different over at truthout... or is it me?

[MelissaB]

113. Besides the Lounge, the other safe place at DU is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

There are lots of people working their a**es off, making a difference, and puttting me to shame. God, I love them.

Hang in there, Mr. Pitt. Many of us read your posts, but don't respond. :hug:

[bleever]

131. Amen, sister. We might not have made it happen yet, but make no

mistake: we are making it happen, along with all the other folks across the country putting shoulder to wheel.

Including Will. With gratitude and appreciation, I say, especially people like Will.

The internet is galaxies of opinion clouds, but the rubber hits the road where hot gases condense into bodies in motion, and it's happening here, and it's manifesting in many self-sustaining, self-directing entities across the country that together are an informal, chaotic, and tremendously adaptable network of intelligent response.

Not. Giving. Up.


(With credit to understandinglife for his insight into the power of a system of unorganized, co-motivated biotic entities.)

[Melissa G]

132. Absolutely right! Election forum is still a good place to hang...

KOEB threads are the 'other' lounge and if it gets racy with bodice ripping and such they are less likely to lock the thread...
Hang in there Will!

[yowzayowzayowza]

114. No whacha mean...

Been on hiatus since the election.

[izzybeans]

121. I'm moving in that direction too.

When I discovered this place I thought the possibilities for positive political action were endless. But then I discovered that the muck can bog you down. So I tried hard to be subtle when it came to debunking the outlandish (e.g. posting what seemed to be obvious and civil refutations in the the Gannon wrinkles or pointing out that dihydrogen oxide is an awkward and dishonest way of saying H20). My faith is dwindling after disingenious replies to an episode of police brutality that I found particularly troubling. But also the endless discussions of Pope, Schiavo, premature presidential Primary candidate ejaculation, and other nonesense ring in my ears like that Billy Ocean song that has become my own private hell. I need renewed vigor it seems. Can the lizards of the DU lounge lend a hand? Shall I fear the dementors in GD and GDP and remained confined to the lounge afraid of the darkness or shall I plunge into the GD abyss in search of what's left of the light? I'd like to post more often but in all seriousness I'm finding it harder and harder to do such a thing.

[bleever]

122. Dear Will,

2004 Election Results and Discussion remains a boiler room of gritted-teeth determination that this story will never die, and that the green sprouts of Democracy reasserting its essential power are all around us, and growing stronger.


bleever

[demnan]

123. Oh come on, Will look at the fun you'll miss

I've got to do some research so I can post quotes from another famous atheist tomorrow. My post on Mencken got 27 hits! I love people bashing me for posting quotes. I've never had so much fun in GD!




Hi to everyone, in case I get tombstoned! (Or burned as a witch!)

[FizzFuzz]

127. I never knew about Mencken till DU

saw some quotes in some siglines I think. Checked out a library book--Wow!! I learn so much here--DU rules!

[JanMichael]

128. *, always an *, open ended and ambiguous.

:-)

[AuntiBush]

129. Will, if I may ask, respectfully speaking...

What has you troubled, Will? You're on the frontlines of information. I get this sick feeling from learning/knowing too much somedays, though I know I better pay attention now. It has me truly respecting our Democrats more and more, with each passing day.

Are you ok? Is it something we did in other forums? Maybe I'm reading this wrong but maybe it's burn-out.

I sincerely hope you come back soon. We need you, badly.

:toast: and :hug: just for you, Will.

[imenja]

148. he's upset about statements from other DUers

not politics more generally. That's my impression anyway.

[SarahB]

133. I completely understand.

I have turned into an almost total cynic. Hopefully, that'll change over time, but for now, it's just how it is.

So Will, if you are now just a Loungian, do you get to be the Lizard King? :P

p.s. Boots!!! ;)

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Laurab]

135. Will you can't do that...well you CAN

but you shouldn't. You're one of the best known, intelligent, thought provoking, and knowledgeable posters. When I see your posts I know I'm probably going to learn something, maybe re-think something, and almost always, get food for thought. While I don't ALWAYS agree with your posts, I do more often that not. I know I can count on an intelligent, educated post, at the very least.

If everyone like you decided to give up on GD, it would become a very sad place, and certainly not the place that gave me so much hope and inspiration in November of last year. You and those like you have to be there for the new DU'ers, like the one I was last year. There are still good things to be read there, although I agree the arguing and pettiness has gotten out of control. Redstone captured part of it perfectly in his post above about the slavery argument.

We do need to have a thick skin out there, and to choose our arguments, because some people just aren't worth arguing with. Just stick with the things that matter, and ignore the rest, but BE THERE, because DU has to be here. Not a DU taken over by a bunch of people who want to argue, but the DU that educates, gives hope and optimism, and informs people about things they can do to help save our democracy. That's the DU that saved my sanity...

[grace0418]

139. I agree with Laurab, Will

We need you and others like you. Your posts always get my attention. This place is the last vestige of hope I get. It's the last place where it seems like there are any rational people, even if I have pick through the haystack of crazies to find a few sane needles.

I think a lot of people are just being pushed to the edge of despair by all that is happening, and they're cracking. We've all got to figure out a way to work together or we're all going to be crushed by the GOP war machine. I really don't want The Handmaid's Tale to become non-fiction. Please stick around and be a voice of reason!

[freebird1]

137. Welcome to my world Mr Pitt

I've spent many a happy hour in the lounge. It's not all sweetness and light ~ but it's a helluva good place to speak about what's on my mind.

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[imenja]

144. group think mind meld

is what it is.

[Arianrhod]

143. I was wondering what that was.

There seems to be a very depressive/angry energy running through DU lately. I've been affected by it myself, and always regret posting under those conditions.

I'd never considered posting in the Lounge before. Maybe because I originally joined DU for the political discussions. But I followed a thread here from the Home Page and suddenly realized that it's a pretty cool place to be.

Think I'll hang around for a while, and see if I can get control of myself again.

[hfojvt]

145. it feels like deja vu all over again

I swear people have been complaining about GD since I first came here. So I did a little searching.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=39631

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=59848


"Where the hell are we now, I mean really? When we need eachother the most, we're falling apart! I've been soured out of GD with all the bickering among us. I remember DU used to be so different. I'm sorry to say this DU isn't the same place I came to know and love a year and a half ago- it's different now and just doesn't have the same appeal it did. The constant flaming and itching at each other is driving me crazy." Aug 1, 2003

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=51630

"Yes this is a silly thread, but after the heated discussion that has been happening in GD, I thought it time for some silliness." Jul 29, 2003

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=76189

"Do as Will (who has also been known to become disenchanted and take a break from DU) suggests, Dave, and come back when you are rested. Your friends will be here to greet you." Aug 7, 2003

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=163813

"I'm not going into GD for a very long time
It just makes me want to puke every time I go in there." 09-05-03



Maybe it only started in Jul 2003. I cannot find any complaints before that, at least not in the lounge.

[Swamp Rat]

146. I like the Lounge

:)

[benny05]

147. WP

While I'm not certain about your reasons to only hang out here, I have something to say to you that lauds your work.

The blog or column you write on your own blog is often quoted by many, not only here, but on the One America Committee Blog, JREG (when it was not invaded by pests), and other places. It is considered to be totally cool.

I hang out more in the DU Lounge to add, but on the DU political forums I do not. Often I don't have more to add to the discussion.

I hope you do continue to hang out here and get ideas for your blog.

[H2O Man]

149. Well, sir, Mr. Pitt ....

I do hope that you continue to take part on the sports forum from time to time. I had read your response to a boxing thread, where you mentioned that you have long admired Ali; I asked if you have read his book, "The Soul of a Butterfly"? I think it is one of the most fascinating things I've ever read.

I understand fully and appreciate you feelings about GD.

[derby378]

150. Dude, we need you in GD

If you need a break, go ahead and take one, sure - me, I simply try to avoid the kvetchfests you've mentioned and focus on stuff that's more constructive on GD. My only diversion was when I was getting on Barbara Boxer's case for voting to confirm John Negroponte, but I'm nowhere near declaring her a DINO. (I have ADHD, not short-attention span.)

Welcome to the Lounge, Will! But you'll be back - you know it as well as I do. Once this Popeapalooza becomes yesterday's news, we can start realizing what brought us to DU in the first place.

[MaineDem]

151. I know what you mean

I mostly read LBN and the Sports but I've been coming into the Lounge a bit more lately.

It's going to be a LONG campaign for '08 if things go like they have been in GD-P. Yikes!

Enjoy life, you Lounge Lizard, you!

[iconoclastic cat]

152. Yes, some have begun to eat their own.

The Lounge is definitely a haven from all the vitrol. However, your insight is not entirely lost in the storm; I would guess that a majority of DUers have simply gone silent, preferring only to read, and then only to internalize the helpful information.

Anyway: Come, family, bathe in the Lounge's warm, glowing warming glow.

[El Fuego]

153. I stay in the Lounge. It is pretty much my approach to Real Life, too.

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[PDittie]

154. "Sports", dude.

Why wouldst thou forsake "Sports"?

[WilliamPitt]

155. Never!

I forgot to mention Sports. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

157. H20 put it aptly,

"a minority within a minority". I think it's just routine sense to leave them to it, Will.

It's normally a sign, I think, that, relatively speaking, few substantive economic or social issues are making the headlines. The great thing is they're so easy spot and ignore, in favour of a few laughs in the Lounge.

[ailsagirl]

158. Politics is in your blood, Will-- can you really stop cold turkey??

I hear you, though-- the Lounge is a pretty cool place to hang out. Far less strident than the other forums. :smoke:

But never say never.