Conversely, which WWII general was the biggest class act

[JohnKleeb]

I'd say General George C Marshall, very key to the war effort and a great guy all around, and admired by the admired.

[JohnKleeb]

1. Yeah talking about nice people is boring

:)

[pres2032]

2. I like Ike

:-)

betcha didn't know that one of the buildings on my campus was used as his temporary oval office after his stroke.

[JohnKleeb]

5. No I did not

I like him too but I really admire Marshall, Ike idolized him and it really hurt him a lot when people like Senators McCarthy and Jenner would question his patriotism and loyality. I believe a quote attriubted to Ike about Marshall is that "He is the best man to come out of this war", Ike was a pretty classy guy himself, I would have voted Stevenson but Ike was a good guy and decent president.

[elperromagico]

3. Ike is just alright with me.

[Fenris]

4. Marshall.

[GOPisEvil]

6. Bradley. Unassuming, but brilliant.

:thumbsup:

[JohnKleeb]

8. I admire him too, he was a soldier's soldier I am told

Didn't seek the limelight, actually stayed in the field with his men. Great guy, he really was a classy guy.

[Wat_Tyler]

7. I like General William Slim of the British-Indian Fourteenth Army.

As far as US soldiers go - Marshall, Devers, Bradley or Ike.

[JohnKleeb]

9. Who is Devers? Ive heard of Slim but dont know much about him

[Wat_Tyler]

11. Commanded the Army Group that came ashore in Southern France

during the Anvil operation - 6th Army Group. They covered the section of the allied line between Luxembourg and Switzerland - very competent and decent, and forgotten by most. General Jacob Devers.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Yeah that name sounded familiar

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. Slim is a good choice.

I think a case could be made for Brooke, as well.

[Wat_Tyler]

15. Slim inflicted the biggest Japanese defeat on land of World War II.

He was pretty much universally loved by his troops, and seems to have been an all-round decent fellow.
Brooke, considering what he had to deal with from the likes of Monty and Churchill, must've been a damn good diplomat, as well as a great commander.

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Not to mention...

that Brooke was also quite selfless. He rejected the offer of a major command, instead opting to play minder to Churchill and keep him from running off into some half-cocked scheme a la the Dardanelles...

[tjwmason]

44. Anyone who could restrain Churchill must be good

[CubsFan1982]

10. Marshall

Anyone who inspires the wrath of Tailgunner Joe the way Marshall did has got to be a great human being.

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. What about Rommel?

[Wat_Tyler]

16. Difficult to say.

Fundamentally a decent, reasonable man, but his ego was his undoing.

[JohnKleeb]

18. Ahh Rommel, perhaps the biggest tragedy of the war I think

I dont hate him, he was just a soldier.

[VOX]

19. Other: Gen. Games M. Gavin, the "Jumping General" ...

He was young for a general, and he actually went up on the front lines with his men. Also an outspoken critic of the Vietnam War.
http://www.britannica.com/normandy/articles/Gavin_James.html
JAMES MAURICE GAVIN (b. March 22, 1907, New York, N.Y., U.S.--d. Feb. 23, 1990, Baltimore, Md.), U.S. Army commander known as the "jumping general" because he parachuted with combat troops during World War II.

[JohnKleeb]

21. Wow I didnt know that he became a critic of Vietnam

I can tell by reading that biography that Jimmy would be appalled by the Bush adminstration, its nice to see that he lived a long life. Thanks, I had admired him from what I knew about from the film A Bridge Too Far, now I admire him more so. You're right, he was young, only 38 when the war ended.

[CanuckAmok]

20. No Contest: Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC.

I know he was no lnger in command by WW2 (retired in 1931), but no conversation about "Generals who are class acts" can ignore Butler:

"I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

"I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

"There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism."

And this man ran for Senate as a Republican in 1932!!




http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Butler.html

[JohnKleeb]

22. What he did for FDR was just so brave

Its really sad that in recent years the once very admirable republican party has gone down hill. Hell even as recent as the late Reagan years, you would know of republicans who went against the norms and stood up for regular people.

[CanuckAmok]

28. You might find it interesting...

(and don't tell anyone, because it's a BIG SECRET)...

There was (is?) an unofficial society within RMC (Royal Military College of Canada, one of two universities which train officers for our Armed Forces--yes, we have Armed Forces!) Called the Butler Corps. It is named after Smedley Butler, and after Col. John Butler, who fought off invading American forces during the War of 1812. The society is dedicated to rooting out neo-fascist elements in the Canadian Forces.

[JohnKleeb]

29. That's very interesting and I know you guys have armed forces

The reputation that Canadians have gotten as isolationist pussies is false and wrong.

[CanuckAmok]

30. We have a great Army...his name is Dave.

This is him here, eh.

Nice guy.

Dropped his rifle, though.

[JohnKleeb]

31. hahahaha

[libhill]

43. It's bullshit -

Canada played a big role in World Wars 1 and 2, and were involved in both conflicts long before the U.S. was. Not to mention having to fend off U.S. invasions once or twice in the 18th and 19th Centuries. Pussies they're not.

[libhill]

42. Now, now-

You should well know, that Gawd fearin' America would never invade your country - we went into Canada to, uh - um - protect our freedom from the evil Brits. Nothing to do with Manifest Destiny, or anything like that.

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. Wow! That's quite a quote

and back when the republican party didn't mean fascist jeezo-corporate-owned whacko sick fuck.

[JohnKleeb]

27. Hard to believe there could be a time

where I wuold have to think about what party to vote for eh.

[libhill]

34. Ya beat me to it -

Butler is my favorite "class act" general too, although I believe he died in 1940. Served in most of the U.S. "colonial wars" of the early 20th Century, from the Boxer Rebellion in China to Nicaragua, and admitted later that it was all in the interests of U.S. Big Business. And became a life long pacifist after retirement. Favorite Butler qoute- "I could have given Al Capone a few tips". We could use a man like Butler today.

[CanuckAmok]

35. My favourite Butler quote:

(it's my favourite because I cite it as being stated in 2000 by a fictional pundit, and nobody has ever called me on it. It's as topical now 9if not moreso) than when it was said in 1938):

"I spent thirty-three years in the Marines, most of my time being a hlgh class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.
I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers... I helped make Mexico...safe for American oil interests... I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests... I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street."

[libhill]

36. That's our boy

A truly honest man - if there is a heaven, I hope J.C. will look kindly upon Butler.

[JohnKleeb]

37. I bet he does

Butler is one of the best stories our history books in school won't tell us about and its a shame too, he was also a very brave guy, one of only a handful to get two medals of honors.

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. Yeah...

that was before they changed the rules pertaining to the MOH...now it may only be awarded once...

[libhill]

45. You should read

"The Savage Wars of Peace" by Max Boot. It has a lot of interesting items about Smedley Butler and the Banana Wars in Latin America. Even though it takes the view that the U.S. is obligated to go into third world countries to "Nation Build", and subscribes altruistic motives for our small wars, which is bullshit, it's still an eye opener. You'll get a lot of history you never learned in High School or even college, because it's covered up. The Phillipine war, the Boxer Rebellion, the take over of Samoa, it's all there. Even lesser known events, like Commodore Porters attempt to colonize the Marquesas Islands in the War of 1812. Those poor chumps under Porter had double trouble, fighting Natives on the island, and dealing with a mutiny by Brtisih prisoners at one and the same time.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. How about Brigadier General Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.?

He personally led the assault on Utah Beach on D-Day, armed with nothing but a pistol, despite being 56 years old, walking with a cane, and having heart fibrillations. He was awarded the Medal of Honour for his actions (posthumously; he died within a month after D-Day, of a heart attack).

[JohnKleeb]

25. A very brave man

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. And what about General Postmaster?

Think of how important he was during the war.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

32. My vote has to go to Bradley

He was a soldier's soldier.

George Marshall was an admirable man in many ways also. During WWI instead of being a yes man he stood up to General Pershing winning his respect in the process. Can't imagine anyone in the Pentagon doing that today.

[Hardrada]

33. Georgi Zhukov

Probably took out more Nazis than anyone else.

[JVS]

38. Zhukov

[adwon]

40. Marshall

If any one person won that war, it was him.

One thing I always liked about Bradley is how he let Richard Russell and the Senate Armed Services Committee 'use' him to nail MacArthur to the wall.

Eisenhower was overblown and useless. He owed both his wartime and post-war career to Marshall. The thanks he gave to his mentor was to keep silent when McCarthy, Jenner, and Nixon were attacking him as a communist stooge. The man just didn't understand integrity.

[onager]

41. Two more Marines...

Gen. David Shoup: Medal Of Honor winner at Okinawa, 1943. Appointed Commandant of the Marine Corps in 1959 by Eisenhower.

Known as JFK's favorite general, but resigned his commission in 1963, while saying things like "all of Vietnam is not worth the life of one single American."

Notable quote from 1966: "I believe that if we had, and would, keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-crooked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. One that they design and want, one that they fight and work for.

And if, unfortunately, their revolution must be of the violent type because the "haves" refused to share with the "have nots" by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans."

Lt. Col. Evans Carlson: temporarily resigned his Marine commission in 1937 to become a journalist and "Special Observer" with Mao Tse-tung's Fourth Route Army in China.

Carlson had served with the China Marines in 1927 and was appalled at the poverty he saw while local warlords lived high on the hog. One of the worst warlords was America's erstwhile ally, Chiang Kai-Shek.

Carlson started warning Washington in the Thirties that a major revolution was coming to China, and that Mao would probably win it. This was not exactly what Washington wanted to hear.

Carlson was also shocked when he learned how much raw material the Japanese bought from U.S. corporations--raw material that, in 1937, was raining down on Nanking and Shanghai in the form of Japanese bombs and shells.

Considered something of a dangerous military heretic and probably a Communist after his return, Carlson had fortunately made a good friend while serving on a Marine honor guard--Franklin D. Roosevelt.

When Carlson formed the Second Marine Raider Battalion in 1942, his Executive Officer was James Roosevelt, FDR's oldest son.

Carlson ran the Raiders according to the principles he had observed in Mao's army. Officers and enlisted men worked together. Or in the local Chinese language--"Gung Ho!"

Gee, that sounds familiar...(former Marine D.I. here)

[libhill]

46. Shoup

Sounds like he may have been a student of Butler - wonder if they ever crossed paths in the Corps?

[libhill]

47. Truman -

Never had much use for Ike - even McArthur didn't like him - called Eisenhower "the best clerk I ever had".