Which World War II General was the biggest asshole?

[Wat_Tyler]

This is a tough one - Patton famously berated shellshocked men as cowards, Montgomery had an extraordinary ego that lended itself to massive arrogance and MacArthur was more concerned about his own myth than anything else. Of course, to make things worse, all three were great generals.
As a wildcard, I'd add Clark, who was even more of a publicity whore than MacArthur, a man would rather be photographed taking Rome than capturing an enemy army.
What do you lot reckon? I think I'll vote for MacArthur.

[CanuckAmok]

1. I think Patton...

Probably because he just continued being an asshole long after it was required of him.

[Wat_Tyler]

3. He was brilliant, but apparently in real life he had a high squeaky voice.

For some reason, I find that hilarious.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Yeah Ive heard that

about him. George C Scott as him will forever be in my mind though. I say McArthur too honestly.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

19. I think you are confusing him with someone else, he died

within a week of the end of the war.

His assholishness drove an army which delivered a decisive blow not once, but three times (africa, italy and belgium) and had previously completely re-written the armored war plans for the US army.

It was completely, from a military point of view, justified.

[Maestro]

2. It was probably Patton

however, I voted for MacArthur. Patton still had some sort of transcendental aire about him. Yeah, he was a nut, but his troops, (most of them) loved him.

[elperromagico]

4. General Dick "Crustypants" Savage.

Terror of the Teutons.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

5. Clark

His Rome escapade prolonged the Italian campaign.

[Wat_Tyler]

9. True enough.

There's a story that the Fifth Army had to clear central Rome by no later than 4pm on June 4th 1944 so the General could get his photo taken in time for the next press.

[Fenris]

7. I actually would choose Soviet Colonel - General Lev Mekhlis

"Stalin's iron hand." Also at several points during the 1930s was the chief editor of Pravda. Mastered the art of terrorizing, arresting, and executing his own troops. Truly one of the most horrific people ever to exist.



Of the listed, I would go with MacArthur, for obvious reasons.

[Wat_Tyler]

11. Oh , you.

Everybody knows Tuchachevsky was the real bad boy of the Kremlin set.

[JohnKleeb]

13. What about that one soviet general who went benedict arnold?

[Wat_Tyler]

20. Vlasov.

He sounds more easily taken in than anything else.

[Fenris]

24. Probably accounts for his death before the start of the war.

:tinfoilhat:

[Wat_Tyler]

27. Apparently the Germans framed him because he was the best Soviet general.

They planted information that he was conspiring with Hitler, and Stalin purged him.

[Fenris]

36. Yes

Another brilliant maneuver by Koba. :eyes: Stalin probably could have gotten more accomplished if he had refrained from shooting himself in the foot constantly.

[imenja]

17. probably could throw in a Nazi or two as well

to round out the pack.

Mekhlis sounds horrifying. The depths of inhumanity men can sink do defy comprehension.

[Minstrel Boy]

8. I have to go with Montgomery.

He seems to have been an insufferable prick.

[imenja]

10. How can people not pick MacArthur?

He wanted to nuke China off the face of the map. :nuke:

[JohnKleeb]

12. I did

for that and how he wanted to handle Korea and as a result, I admire Harry Truman for firing him.

[Wat_Tyler]

15. Patton had similar ideas about the USSR.

[imenja]

22. Did he insist on nuking them? And don't forget Le May

I hadn't heard that. Truman had to fire MacArthur because he refused to relent from his diabolical scheme.

Another major asshole was Curtis Le May. If had been up to him, we'd all have been wiped out in the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Wat_Tyler]

25. Patton did want to invade Yugoslavia to sort out Tito.

Imagine Bosnia fifty years early.

[imenja]

26. sorry, I still have to go with MacArthur

[Wat_Tyler]

30. Why not, I did.

And Patton was at least an excellent general.

[JohnKleeb]

29. Thats a reason for me not to like Patton

I had family there then as I do now.

[Fenris]

32. So did Stalin

But he chose the path of espionage and assasination. Tito sent a letter to Stalin in 1950 that read: "Stop sending assasins to murder me....if this doesn't stop, I will send a man to Moscow and there'll be no need to send any more."

[imenja]

33. Tito had guts

Awesome quote.

[JohnKleeb]

38. He certainly did

One of my heroes honestly. He kept a hotspot united for 35 years.

[JohnKleeb]

35. Yep I read that in my biography of Tito I had

He was afraid really of what Tito planned to do there.

[Wat_Tyler]

37. Tito was practically indestructible.

After all, he survived four years of having the Nazis chase him across the Balkans - he was ruthless, cunning and smart as hell.

[Melynn]

50. Tito told Stalin to take a flying leap after the war

and Stalin didn't do anything about it.

I have a friend from Macedonia and she told me her country was a lot better off under Tito.

[JohnKleeb]

52. My grandfather's family is Slovenian

and they too saw an improvement. I think his relatives were actually partisans, not sure.

[jpgray]

28. Patton figured now or later, so let's do it while we have the troops there

Good general, but crazy as fuck.

[imenja]

31. well, he had a point there

Would have spared us the agony of the Cold War. :sarcasm:

[jpgray]

34. I think as a general rule good soldiers make bad politicians. (nt)

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

14. God, what a competition... all of them, and more

How about LeMay, he made General towards the end of the war.

[Wat_Tyler]

16. Yeah, people tend to forget him.

I know I have. :D

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

54. Want to hear something to make you go.... AH HA!... ?

There was a certain Lt Col who worked under him during WWII, bright fellow, trasferred straight from Harvard to the US Army Air Corps. Worked for him in plans and strategy...





His name?







Robert McNamara



Hmmmmmmmm, Ah HA!

[MrSandman]

18. Other , if you meant Clark...

At least the other three were able to show something besides stack up casualties.

By acting like prima donnas, the other three used that persona to inspire their troops to a belief in victory.

[Wat_Tyler]

23. It did work for all three.

As far as Montgomery goes, he was a cheerleader as much as anything, and he knew it. The man was a brilliant trainer and motivator - and that is half the job of Generalship.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. Montgomery...

arrogant bastard, and his military abilities are less redeeming than those of any of the others. He was the architect of the massive fuckup at Arnhem, for instance, that resulted in the capture of two divisions. He's only considered "great" because of the African campaign, and even there the defeat was more Rommel's than the victory Monty's, thanks to the overextension of German supply lines.

[BiggJawn]

39. Reinhard Heydrich

Came up with "The Final Solution"
Can't be a bigger asshole than that, can you?

[Wat_Tyler]

42. Does Heydrich count as a general?

I had him down as a politician, myself. Mind you, Himmler 'commanded' an Army Group towards the end, and they don't come any jerkier than old Heinrich.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

51. Technically he was a policeman

but under the system prior to and during the Nazi regime, that was a military service.

[BiggJawn]

55. Yes, he was an SS Brigadier General.

Granted, that's like being named "Hero of the Murkan Empire" by Shrubby, but a General he was. He was an Oberguppenfuhrer at the time he was "fixed"

[Wat_Tyler]

40. Subthread - which World War II General was the most incompetent?

Nominee #1.

Australian General Gordon Bennett - so useless the phrase 'Gordon Bennett!' as an exasperated cry entered the British and Australian lexicon - a man so rubbish he practically singlehandedly lost Singapore to a numerically inferior Japanese force, then pissed off back to Australia at the last minute.

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. Another vote for Monty.

See my earlier reply for part of the reason why...he is, without question, one of the most consistently overrated military commanders in history.

[Wat_Tyler]

44. But he wasn't as incompetent as his direct predecessor in the 8th Army

General Neil Ritchie - utterly useless with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. Auchinleck might deserve credit for even greater incompetence.

After all, he appointed Ritchie.

[Wat_Tyler]

46. True.

Although, Auchinleck did at least win one battle - First Alamein, albeit against an exhausted Panzerarmee Afrika. Ritchie's predecessor, Cunningham, was equally dismal.

[pres2032]

41. MacArthur was considered a god by the Japanese

that has to count for something. Not to mention he was a damned good general, as was Patton. I'm going with Montgomery for being an arrogant little prick.

[CubsFan1982]

47. MacArthur

For thinking he was above the President of the United States. I'm sorry, but the douchebag couldn't hold Harry Truman's jock as far as I'm concerned.

[VOX]

48. Tough choices. Patton probably required the most baby-sitting.

So he was maybe the highest-maintenence of the lot. Although MacArthur and Truman went toe-to-toe more than once. I just keep remembering what war-cartoonist/writer Bill Mauldin wrote about Patton, and it *wasn't* flattering.

I'm stuck between these two admittedly great assholes.

[Wat_Tyler]

49. How could I forget France's asshole of the Century - Charles de Gaulle?

[mikehiggins]

53. Monty. Absopositivilutely the biggest asshole of the entire war

Ego and stupidity in equal measures.

How do the Brits breed them?

[terrya]

56. Montgomery: because he was an asshole AFTER World War II

In Great Britain in 1955, the Wolfenden Committee was formed...to look into the idea of decriminalizing homosexual acts between consenting adults. At the time, homosexuality was very much a criminal offense in Britain.

The Wolfenden Committee, after hearings and debate, in 1957 issued its report recommending essentially decriminalizing homosexuality. During debate in Parliment, Montgomery...now Lord Montgomery...fought this every step of the way...calling homosexuality "vile" and saying at one point during the debate "if we do this, we might as well condone the Devil and all of his works". In 1967, 10 years after the Wolfenden Report, the Sexual Offences Act was passed...formally ratifying the reports findings and decriminalizing homosexuality.

http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/wolfenden_report,2.html

[Wat_Tyler]

57. Looks like it's between Monty and MacArthur.

Patton couldn't really help being a jerk, and his early death in December 1945 at least saved us from post-war assholery.
Incidentally, Patton and Montgomery's superior in Africa, Field Marshal Alexander was a later Governor General of Canada, and a very decent individual.

[Zuni]

58. Patton, no doubt

He was an asshole of a rare degree, but a damn fine general too. Then again, Montgomery and MacArthur were also major f-in assholes, but damn fine commanders.
I personally consider MacArthur's Island Hopping campaign up New Guinea and the Southwest pacific and through the Phillipines to be the finest Allied campaign of the war.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

59. Dougout Doug? He did not think up that campaign, it was forced on

him by the Navy and Marine Corps.
He fought it all the way above Marshall's head to Stimson, who told him to do what he was told.

Mere words cannot describe how assholish he was.