Woman Who Weighs Over 600 Pounds No Longer Allowed On City Bus

[matcom]

<snip>

Pat Kern passes time in an Oakville duplex by scanning the newspaper, flipping channels on her television and spoiling rotten a dog named Cuddles.

And Cuddles has been getting a lot of attention lately.

Kern, 65 and in a wheelchair, can't leave her apartment except when the weather is just right. Her caregiver, Carol Durand, will take Kern for a spin. Just something to get out of the house.

Durand used to do more. But in August, Metro cut off Kern's access to Call-A-Ride Plus, the agency's door-to-door bus service for the disabled.

Kern is fat. She'll say it openly. At a combined 640 pounds, she and her wheelchair weigh 40 pounds more than Metro's limit.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/44CE253C3C504CF186256FCC0018680E?OpenDocument

[seriousstan]

1. Metro's equipment is tested at 600 pounds, and that's the limit officials

Metro's equipment is tested at 600 pounds, and that's the limit officials know can be lifted safely, Williams said.


I agree, there is a physical, mechanical range that a piece of equipment is safe to operate inside. When you near the acceptable limits, you are asking for a lawsuit.

If you want to debate whether the transit company should operate a crane and flatbed so the morbidly obese can get out and see the spring flowers, that is another question.

[StopTheMorans]

3. everyone's staying away from this, but i agree with your statement

and your last sentence is a good qualifier.

[MemphisTiger]

5. There are safety factors on those peices of equipment

For example, if a design strength is 600 pounds, it could lift 800 or so.

[wideopen]

7. True..

but if it breaks when operating over the safe load limit you just lost the inpending lawsuit.

[seriousstan]

25. That's why they are called "safety factors". They are not to be tempted.

Would you bungee jump on a rope rated for 200 pounds if you weighed 250, because there is a "safety factor"?

The woman has a disability (I hear the flame already). The inability to fit through certain spaces or be supported by certain structures. It would be negligent, as in lawsuit, to try to stretch the limits of a system to accommodate her.

If she wants to get around town for a breath of air and change of scenery she should call a furniture moving company.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[wideopen]

2. well it seems nobody wants

to touch this so,I will. 600lbs. is the limit of the equipment,if you want to ride the bus lose 40 lbs. I'm sure this will piss off someone but damn,do we install cranes on our buses?

edit; I'm sure she would be happy to sue if the lift broke trying to pick her over-the-limit ass up.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. *Dons asbestos suit and runs for cover*

:scared:

[StopTheMorans]

8. i wish i had that emoticon of the smiley eating popcorn

:D

[crispini]

9. This one?

[StopTheMorans]

10. Kathy, can you tell me what this says?

thanks :D

[Kathy in Cambridge]

11. Here

[StopTheMorans]

12. thanks, I was kidding

old (and bad) "i have Crispini on ignore" joke :P

[crispini]

33. LOL!

Smartass! :spank:

[miss_kitty]

23. or this one?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[progmom]

19. The average elephant weighs approximately 10,000 pounds, btw.

Your comments seem kind of harsh today regarding the obese.

[NorthernSpy]

13. could she possibly switch to a manual wheelchair for transit rides?

In the picture attached to the article, I noticed that her wheelchair is of the sort that includes an electric motor, and I seem to remember that those things are really heavy.

Manual wheelchairs weigh a lot less than the motorized ones. I bet if she used one of those when taking the bus, she could use the lift without problems. An able-bodied friend or aide could come along to assist, if necessary.

I think that sounds like a reasonable solution.

[NorthernSpy]

14. come to think of it...

... her friend/aide could bring the motorized wheelchair along, and she could switch to that after they'd got where they were going.

I know that this isn't quite the same as the complete autonomy that she might prefer, because it involves the cooperation of another person willing to devote a little time to helping with her errands, but I think it might be a workable compromise. The city wouldn't have to junk its equipment and buy new stuff with a higher weight capacity that would almost never be required, and this woman would still be able to ride the bus and go out and do things.

It could work.

[wideopen]

16. It sounds good but

pushing 600 pounds up even the slightest incline or trying to control it on a decline would require a lot of strength. Remember we are talking about the weight of 2 refrigerators.

[sasquatch]

17. Why not just get her stomach stapled?

:shrug:

[progmom]

18. I hope you're joking?

:shrug:

[wideopen]

20. Good luck w/this one my friend

I think you may be in trouble.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

27. but if you do that..

... then she'd have to keep going downhill, and eventually just end up in the harbor! I know you're trying to help, but I'm not sure your solution is a workable

Oh, wait...

[NorthernSpy]

30. because my solution is much safer

It doesn't involve a risky surgical procedure, for a start...

[DS1]

15. This sounds like a job for Electrolux!

:eyes:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Tough shit. They need to work out a reasonable accomodation then

There are ways for them to put her on the lift and alleviate some of the pressure to the lift. They need to be creative. I err on the side of non descrimination for the disabled.

[DS1]

24. creative with a machete, maybe

600 pounds is well within reason, common sense, etc etc

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. You have no idea WHY her weight is as it is

This is a case of the city saying, "The ADA requires this and we won't budge an inch beyond ADA requirements" This article already describes 10 people being excluded.

Common sense should tell you you don't have enough facts.

Anyway..I gotta go to court now and deal with those pesky disabled folks...so I won't be around for a while to respond.

[progmom]

38. What, they should cut off more of her limbs?

:shrug:

Maybe she should drag herself onto a treadmill and hop for a few hours?

[ProfessorGAC]

29. I Tend To Also, NSMA

But, this is not a simple accommodation. The law, both in the states and federal specifically uses the term "reasonable" in reference to the accommodation. Hauling a forklift around (intentional hyperbole) is not "reasonable".

If her total weight is within the lift rating + safety margin, perhaps a reasonable accommodation would be to have her sign a waiver in the event that the lift did, indeed fail, holding the MT system harmless. Then, they could transport her at her convenience without regard to the possible legal consequences of exceeding the hardware's capability.

I think the engineering aspects of this are more complex than you purport. It might even require outriggers on the bus, because the externalized lift may put too much leverage on the springs and shocks. I don't know. We'd have to see all the particulars.

But, while in general i agree with your premise, the specifics here may complicate things way beyond what is "reasonable".
The Professor

[StopTheMorans]

31. good post

:thumbsup:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Not in any fundamental disagreement with you as to safety waivers

I don't know the specifics but what I gleaned from the article was the city taking a hardline on the exact specs of the ADA. We already know that employers/municipalities DO NOT like conforming to the ADA process..but it is in the better interest of society in general to accomodate the disabled.

My issue was more with the hardline...I too would like to know more about the specifics.

[LiberallyInclined]

39. well in that case- her bus isn't the only one that needs to be re-fitted..

every bus in the country will have to be able to accomodate her and those of her mass and girth...just to be fair.

cases like this demonstrate why the ADA was such a boondoggle- nobody can agree on/be happy with whatever definition of "reasonable" is reached.

accomodating this woman would be UNreasonable. shouldn't she be expected to take some personal responsibility as well? How much effort would she need to slimm herself down to the 600 fucking pound limit anyway?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. Not true. Every bus in the country does not need to conform to ADA

requirements. Cities only need to have A form of transportation available to accommodate.

You have no idea if she CAN lose weight -if her thyroid was destroyed, or if there is another health issue at stake.


cases like this demonstrate why the ADA was such a boondoggle- nobody can agree on/be happy with whatever definition of "reasonable" is reached.

No cases like this demonstrate why the ADA is NEEDED. Even though I disagree with the hardline the city is taking, there would be NO accommodation for the disabled were it not spelled out in the law.


accomodating this woman would be UNreasonable. shouldn't she be expected to take some personal responsibility as well? How much effort would she need to slimm herself down to the 600 fucking pound limit anyway?

This comment besides lacking any medical sophistication is so ignorant as to demonstrate exactly why the weakest of us needs protection from the most medically unsophisticated of us.

Fuck wheelchair ramps and handicapped parking too...what about personal responsibility for making sure you never need your legs amputated or a little more room in a public bathroom stall for your wheelchair (sarcasm on)

[LoZoccolo]

28. My cardiologist is in constant discrimination of me.

He and the nurse practicioner employed by him taunt me with insults about my weight like how my body mass is bad for my ejection fraction, and that I need to stop eating the way I am because it's bad for my cholesterol.

:cry:

I'm thinking of contacting the AMA over this gross disrespect for professional standards.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[MadHound]

35. Well, at the risk of getting flamed here,

It sounds like the woman needs to lose a bit of weight. And yes, it can be done even though she is wheelchair bound.

It sounds like the Metro is doing what they need to do. The woman is over the weight at which their lift can operate safely. Therefore, they don't want to risk the safety of Ms. Kern, or the other passengers. They also don't want to put undue wear and tear on their machinery. The Metro has "reasonably" accomodated Ms. Kerns needs per the ADA. After all, how many people weigh in at over 600 pounds? The city has done what it can, however it is now time for Ms. Kern to do something, lose a bit of weight.

[Divameow77]

36. I don't want to sound heartless but

she needs to find other transportation, and pay for it if necessary.
If I couldn't ride the bus because of a phobia then is the city going to send me a cab? No. I live in a place where buses are not easily available, should they have to send them to my front door because if I don't have a car and want to ride one? No.

[JI7]

37. but the bus service is for the disabled which she is

[Wat_Tyler]

40. I guess, if she weighs more than the limit, there isn't much can be done.

If her weight makes the vehicle and equipment unsafe, then I can see their point.

[RedCloud]

43. My old stomping grounds makes the news!

Yehaw!

[Moderator]

44. Locking

Flamefest material