Why would people who would never wear fur wear diamonds?

[gollygee]

Both are cases where something immoral is done to produce something pretty and expensive.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

1. Perhaps it's because . . .

. . . they care more for animals than they do for their fellow man?

[Freebird12004]

2. Because they just haven't thought it all out.

The same could be said about eating chocolate. Unless your chocolate is a Fair Trade product

[gollygee]

5. That's true

I think PETA is better at advertising or publicity or something. And I don't know of any large anti-diamond organizations.

[Freebird12004]

61. The problem with Diamonds is that we don't know how they were mined.

The average person buying a diamond usually isn't aware of the conditions of the mine workers.

[lonestarnot]

8. God not chocolate! n/t

[tjwmason]

93. Green & Black's

Not wishing to be a marketing man, but they make the most wonderful chocolate on this planet - it is both organic and fair-trade.

[Freebird12004]

94. taste wonderful

Green & Black's is the best tasting organic chocolate! The fact that's it's Fair-trade makes it even better.

[rooboy]

3. Are all diamonds obtained immorally? n/t

[Freebird12004]

4. Yes!

[KharmaTrain]

9. Sorry...Try Again

We have diamonds that have been in our family for at least 125 years and came across an ocean. I'm pretty certain that little 1/3 of a carat that was a lifetime's saving for one of my ancestors in 19th Century Russia would have come from a South African mine. It's a family heirloom worn proudly and now in my daughter's care.

There are blackmarket diamonds, just like there's contraband in any precious material, and those who want to abuse people and laws for their own profit will do so. Many diamonds have certificates which include which mine they came from to guarantee they aren't fake or ill-gotten.

[Freebird12004]

67. Really! I've heard that all South African diamonds had blood on them

I also have diamonds that were handed down through my family. I've even bought diamonds in my lifetime, but I won't again. There are places ... such as Australia and Russia that mine diamonds not tainted by the blood of slave labor. I can't tell the difference. Can you?

[bicentennial_baby]

77. If it came from S. Africa...

then it's a product of expoitation, oppression, and greed...namely the colonial era. Cecil Rhodes, Henry Morton Stanley, DeBeers...

[BornaDem]

92. Maybe we should not buy any product from South Africa...

or many countries (China? because of prison labor) that force or have forced people to work for nothing like slave or prison labor. If everyone follows that practice we might be able to stop the practices we abhor. On the other hand, we won't be buying much - maybe not enough to be able to go to our jobs and support our families. Our mistake is not having protested all this back in the '50's and '60's when it was all getting started. Now it's too late after fifty yrs. to stop "free trade." We can pick out certain items and refuse to participate in their purchase, but we won't be turning back the tide.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Even those you dig for yourself

at Creator of Diamonds State Park near Murphreesboro AR? Personally, I don't have, nor do I want, diamonds, but it is fun to go there to dig around.

[Freebird12004]

73. Collecting rocks for fun is far different.

There are local rock-hounds that dig for Herkimer Diamonds for a living.

[tx_dem41]

81. So...your sweeping statement you made in the OP....

has self-admitted holes in it.

[Freebird12004]

83. *

was a reaction

[amazona]

95. herkimer diamonds aren't diamonds

I'm just saying.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[rooboy]

14. How are the diamonds we mine here in Australia immoral? n/t

[leftchick]

17. I did not know Australia had diamonds....

I know Russia is holding onto several thousands of them but I don't know if they were mined there.

on edit: did a google... very cool information I never knew!

<snip>http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/diamonds.htm

Diamonds
in South Australia


With Australia producing one third of the world's diamond supply, it is interesting to note that of all the minerals and gem stones discovered and mined in South Australia, diamond seems to be the least known. Many people would not believe that any were ever discovered in this state. However within twenty-five years of the founding of South Australia diamonds had been discovered on the alluvial goldfields at Echunga. In 1879 the Commissioner of Crown Lands engaged the services of G.T. Bean, an experienced gem digger to examine and report on the Echunga field.

He reported that diamonds had indeed been found in several localities and that Chapman's Gully looked very much like the diamond fields of the Kimberley in South Africa. Bean also recommended that a systematic search should be undertaken. Since then most diamonds found in that area were accidental discoveries while panning for gold.

It was the same story at Mount Kingston in the far north of South Australia that a diamond was discovered in 1894 by a small party looking for gold. Another diamond was discovered in the same area, at Algebuckina in 1908. Others have since been found at Edwards Creek, about hundred kilometres south from Oodnadatta.

Discoveries have been made at several localities such as Eurelia, by Stockdale Prospecting Ltd., Pine Creek, Ketchowla and Franklyn near Terowie and Karatta on Kangaroo Island

[yvr girl]

78. Canada has diamonds too

[AngryAmish]

21. Australian diamonds - every diamond sold commercially - are immoral

When one purchases or sells a diamond, one participates in the diamond market. If you did not buy, the price would be marginally (very slightly but still there) lower. Thus a marginally smaller incentive for blood diamonds.

Selling any diamond gives you a windfall created by the immoral marketing practices of DeBeers. Diamonds are much worse than fur, but I value humans.

[ben_packard]

27. Doesn't that hold for any product?

Does buying a car help out car theives? Perhaps the distinction is the level of suffering (though I'd rather not be the one to draw the line) or the fact that the majority of the industry is undesirable rather than the majority?

Just some thoughts.

[AngryAmish]

29. To me, diamonds just seem to be such a clear cut case

DeBeers holds such dominent market power and is a true cartel. The market price should be no where as high as it is. People clearly suffer for it.

Also, don't get me started on OPEC. Also immoral cartel, but I am a total hypocrite because I drive all the time.

Driving seems necessary, but diamonds are just shiny rocks when worn for cosmetic purposes.

[ben_packard]

88. Fair point NT

[bowens43]

32. Tha's just silly.

This is the type of issue , taken to this is extreme , that makes liberals and liberalism look foolish.

[Freebird12004]

71. I shouldn't have included Australian diamonds in my original answer.

I'm sorry! My friend tells me that they're rare and beautiful.

[blondeatlast]

31. No--They are mined in Australia, for instance.

I wouldn't wear a diamond, and I'm aware and make others aware of the blood diamond atrocities, but there are ethically obtained diamonds. If we want to stop the blood diamond trade, we need to make people aware of the fact, since it's unlikely we can stop people from desiring diamonds.

IF people are aware, they will avoid DeBeers like the plague and buy from places like Australia.

[Freebird12004]

79. They're also mined in Russia.

However, I have diamonds and I don't wear them.

[China_cat]

87. No.

Diamonds mined in Russia and Canada are 'blood-free'.

The problem is that the brokers won't buy and will lie to the designers and jewel merchants that buy them so you really don't know where they are coming from.

I put a message in blog every important holiday that diamonds are pushed for and I include pictures of those mutilated for these stones.

[Feathered Fish]

6. Most people I know don't

But I think it has something to do with the fact that no cute and furry critters are killed for diamonds. :eyes:
It drives me crazy that more attention hasn't been paid to the diamond trade - it's pretty sickening.

[radwriter0555]

12. Right, just living humans die for DeBeers; & children work precious ruby &

emerald mines in indonesia and Brazil.

In Indonesia, children are used to polish the stones as well, since they have the smallest fingers.

http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/diamonds.htm

Thank goodness they aren't minks or rabbits.

http://www.sparkle.plus.com/children.html

http://www.fguide.org/Bulletin/conflictdiamonds.htm

[Feathered Fish]

20. It's disturbing

that people tend to turn a blind eye to the suffering of humans, but will protest, boycott and denounce the fur trade. But it seems that all of these causes are fads. People are interested and outraged for a period of time, and then... apathy. It's infuriating :grr:

[radwriter0555]

48. Well PETA serves an absolute purpose; there are indeed groups who defend

children and slavery from the diamond traders. They're just not as well known or as well marketed or as well funded as PETA.

Don't denigrate PETA. They do GREAT work that is valid and very important.

[Feathered Fish]

54. I didn't say anything about PETA

I am not denigrating anyone except for those that claim to be outraged over (insert cause here) and then forget about it. Apathy and cynicism are the problem, not a group who's purpose is to bring attention to a particular cause.

[blondeatlast]

33. I've told people about the atrocities that DeBeers supports and

they are dumbfounded. They have absolutely no idea of what goes on.

DeBeers has such a monopoly that the media won't come near the story, I think.

[Stop_the_War]

7. .

[bicentennial_baby]

11. I don't do fur or diamonds

and there's a zillion other things that are probably immoral to own as well, but these are two of the most blatant and obvious

[gollygee]

13. True

It's impossible to avoid everything produced by immoral means. Those two seem to stand out to me.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Oh and gold too

I don't wear gold either. I try to wear as little silver as possible, but I'm sure there's something bad abotu that as well.

[jmowreader]

74. Silver is tied to lead

Silver was originally a byproduct of lead and zinc mining--the three metals come from the same ore.

Lead mining is a synonym for environmental devastation.

Also see http://www.usmra.com/saxsewell/sunshine_view.htm to learn about the Sunshine Mine fire.

A company called Sterling Mining (http://www.pennaluna.com/prospector.htm?news_item=349) bought the Sunshine Mine in 2003. Once they pump all of the water out of it, they'll make a lot of money.

[bicentennial_baby]

76. Sick

I think I'll take my bf up on his offer of an onion-ring engagement ring :P

[Warpy]

15. Ever ask yourselves how much human misery

went into making your cars? How much sweatshop labor went into your computer? Your SALAD?

Maltreatment of labor by the rich is universal.

It's easy to despise fur and diamonds when you can't afford them anyway, and it seems to be very easy to despise the people who wear them because they happen to be women.

It's harder to acknowledge the greater truth that nearly everything we use in our daily lives was produced by other people working in harsh conditions, paid less than they're worth, sexually harassed, and with no hope for the future.

That's the real problem, folks, not that silly women in the suburbs drape their bodies with the skins of dead animals and their fingers with minerals obtained and traded under questionable conditions.

[havocmom]

44. Well said, Warpy!

When we buy plums in March, we are taking food from some Southern Hemisphere farmer. How much dead dinosaur fuel was used to bring us a plum out of season? Was it a corporate farm plum? Were poor people displaced to produce the plum? How much do plums cost in the Southern Hemisphere now because we insist on hauling a huge portion of them to America in winter to satisfy our spoiled-child cravings for fruits out of season for us?

Anyone care for a strawberry? Anyone care where it came from and what it cost the locals there to send it to the US instead of their own markets? Anyone worried about rain forests going up in smoke in the Amazon basin so corporate farms can send you stuff you just don't want to wait until it is produced closer to home? Anybody care that before Nov 2, 2004, about 40% of our food came from some other country? Anybody care that right after Nov 2, the US Congress repealed a regulation requiring foods produced overseas to be labeled as such? Anybody care that it is gonna be damned hard to even know how much of our food is imported?

What does that do to local framers here AND in poor nations?

The problem is not vain women draped in furs and dripping with diamonds, the problem is we are not thinking globally and the corporations are!

[ultraist]

46. exactly!

It seems that the things that are depised on DU and that people are judged for, are things many cannot afford. Bigger houses in the suburbs, SUVs, more than 2 televisions, diamonds, fur, etc.

Do we really know that diamonds cause more suffering than computers made by child labor, create pollution and use natural resources?

[seabeyond]

16. we could and do put a judgement on anything people want

to spend their money on. why the hummer, shoot suburban, pick up......membership in a country club. a house with more space than what someone warrants we need. a green lawn. clothes made outside of country where labor wage and enviroment isnt controlled. meats. "own" an animal. 3 tv's in a house, 7 computers?

buying pot

i could judge on furs and diamonds, i dont do either. things arent a big deal to me.

i read on the making of fur in china hte other day and told kids when they were talking fur that i dont know how people could wear them. but then i answered myself, they didnt read the article. if they had, maybe they wouldnt. but i wont judge people that chose to wear the furs. own the diamonds

[gollygee]

18. I'm wondering more about why one but not the other

Why people who care so much about one issue don't raise an eyebrow over the other.

People who don't care about either are at least consistant.

[Warpy]

23. People who care about the things they can't

afford but give a pass to anything they can are hardly consistent, themselves.

My mother was one of those women swathed in mink and encrusted in diamonds. I inherited both but never wear either. It's like lipstick on a pig in my case. It's just not me.

But I do eat salad produced by Mexicans doing stoop labor and living in condidtions worse than most neighborhood drug dealer dogs live in; I use a computer whose innards are produced by my sisters in the far east who work in appalling sweatshop conditions for barely enough to feed themselves; I'm sitting in a secondhand office chair that likely was produced by people living in prison conditions in a Chinese "factory town."

None of us has clean hands when it comes to profiting from the exploitation of our fellows. Focusing on women with more money than sense is self defeating. The problem is raising awareness of the harsh conditions labor around the world faces, not just selected items.

[flvegan]

25. Education and spotlight

The fur industry came under heavy fire from the animal folks. The diamond industry hasn't had that spotlight.

Additionally, a fur's immorality is like a sledgehammer to the forehead...it takes zero thought. A diamond, you have to link back to the workers, etc. You gotta have a brain.

Lastly, the diamond is the bastion of wedded bliss...what every girls wants, right? How can we besmirch the very foundation of marriage and family values??? Sorry, sarcasm off.

I've been against fur for a long time. I've only recently (1 year or so) become enlightened to the diamond industry. My own fault. The info has been out there, I just had to find it.

[seabeyond]

26. i personally didnt hear diamond tragedy but a year or two ago

and i am informed. we can all imagine how cruel it is to skin an animal and that the thing on our body is frm another living thing. not hard to figure out. further this has been a cause for decades now. people well informed. there jsut hasnt been the info on diamonds. and if you have a diamond and hear the story are you gonna give it up. generally diamonds are a sentimental gift of love. no one is going to give away. i have a diamond my mom gave me before she killed herself. was special to her. what good to get rid of it. i dont wear it, i dont wear jewlery, but people dont know about the diamond issue. and even so..........they see it as another battle in life, poor being abused for greed, all over world, same in the sweatshops of china

[gollygee]

22. Let's see if I can clairfy

Obviously we can't avoid everything that is produced immorally.

What I'm wondering is more why people are so much more aware of the fur industry than, for example, the diamond industry. I don't see the fur industry as being any worse than the diamond industry. How is it that the two situations have such different public awareness levels?

[Feathered Fish]

24. Cute, furry animals

People hate to see them die. Also, diamonds are purdy... :eyes:

[7th_Sephiroth]

30. women still like shiny rocks

and the diamond industry, even the few places that produce diamonds ethically, like canada charge 5,000% markup its all been a 150 year AD campaign, they put out so much media glitz and start thier own traditions, they have deep seeded themselves as a positive thing in our country, and have become a giant industry, with lots of political power

[Feathered Fish]

34. ahem... I don't like shiny rocks, thanks

A little overstated perhaps?

[7th_Sephiroth]

35. quoting Bill Mahr on that part

and for the most part, its true, me and bill both have had the same experience, we once told women about where thier diamonds come from, and the children who' loose thier arms to teach the slaves a lesson, and we were both asked by the women"...both arms?"

[gollygee]

38. I don't either

but I have to admit that most married women I know, and a lot of single women too, have at least one diamond. When I say why I don't have an engagement ring and only have a wedding band, people think I'm silly.

I think it is the standard. Most women want a diamond when they get married.

[7th_Sephiroth]

43. yup

gotta drain the man your marrying of his 2 months of salary for a miniscule, shiny pebble

[Feathered Fish]

45. Come on.

Unnecessary.

[7th_Sephiroth]

49. i dont think so

De-beers advertises thier product, mined from slave labor, funds going to terrorisim, as costing only a "mere two months salary" like saying "women, if he wont cough up all his hard earned money on a shiny trinket, he's not worth marrying" reminds me of this either debeers or kay commercial, a couple are walking in a large, public area, and he proclaims loudly of his love for her, and she's about to take the axe to hil for embarassing her in public, until BANG he whips out the diamond and she just melts.

[Feathered Fish]

58. Your post makes it seem like it's your opinion

Hey, I've seen the ads and they are ridiculous. Your post isn't clear - you should have mentioned the ad in the first place, that's all.

[7th_Sephiroth]

65. my biggest problem it seems is clarity

what i post makes sense to me, but to others it doesent, its kinda odd, really

[Feathered Fish]

66. It's all good

:)

[7th_Sephiroth]

68. i try to be as blatant as possible

and if i had verbally said it alot more people would understand, but the internet, text, it doesent give me a chance to voice the proper tone, wich gives to context, my words

[ultraist]

50. How SEXIST 7th!

I WORK AND PAY for my things. My husband and I have a co-equal relationship. I'm not a "kept" woman.

And I can assure you, it didn't take two months of my salary to buy my diamond.

There is so much classism against anyone who makes over middle class income on this board.

What percentage of your income do you donate?

[7th_Sephiroth]

51. Donate? DONATE???

lady you are out of touch, donation to charaties for the most part is just a way to make rich people feel better about being rich, i donate clothes to the good will, and i give a bit to DU and the DEM party, but i have neither the income nor the vapid stupidity to donade percentages of income like its a fucking status symbol

[ultraist]

56. You are very classist & judgmental

I don't donate as a status symbol. Get real. I also don't donate to a charity. I give directly to a family I have been sponsoring for 8 years and it's a hell of a lot more than some old ratty clothes.

You are really "out of touch."

[7th_Sephiroth]

64. well i'm sorry i cant afford to pay the upkeep for an entire whole

family like you can, i am the lesser person </scarcasim>

and on edit, as for the ratty clothes part, i do donate some used clothes, but for the most part i buy a handfull of new clothes and give them straight to the good will store

[gollygee]

52. What you're saying here is potentially offensive too

I don't work - I'm a stay-at-home mom, but I am not a "kept woman". Not having a job doesn't make me a "kept woman" and it doens't mean my relationship with my husband isn't equal.

[ultraist]

59. I didn't say that being a stay at home woman was being a "kept woman"

Not sure if you are responding to my post, but I didn't say that. I was describing MY situation.

Being a stay at home mom is one of the most difficult jobs. I did it for five years until mine went to kindergarten. Being a mother is undervalued in this society, which is rooted in misogyny.

That comment was extremely judgmental and sexist, that a woman 'drains' her man of two months salary. More misogyny. Demonizing women is very fundie like.

[gollygee]

60. I agree with you

but I think he was mocking the tone of the commercial - not saying he felt that way.

I was pointing out that your post was *potentially* offensive - both yours and his could be misunderstood.

[China_cat]

89. I managed to show my niece

about the diamonds and she showed her boyfriend...who was about to buy her a diamond. Now they're both carefully considering other options, including man-made stones and the possibility of custom made, designed by them, rings in metal only.

[blondeatlast]

36. Think of the stranglehold DeBeers has on the diamond industry--

if you've read any of the books about blood diamonds you will know how powerful it is. If DB can manage to hike prices up artificially far out of proportion (and they manage this wildly successfully), then it isn't a stretch to think they can put the kibosh on negative publicity.

Interesting to compare recent gas prices to the diamond industry...

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. Diamonds are nothing more than overrated

hunks of coal. They aren't even that rare. There are large deposits of diamonds all over the world. I believe one of the biggest is in Canada.

So aside from the moral and ethical issues, diamonds are basically a rip off. If it wasn't for de Beers and one of the most successful ad campaigns in history, diamonds would cost about the same has a cz. Just another pretty sparkly piece of glass.

[Warpy]

37. Diamonds aren't even forever

Eventually they'll revert to their ordinary form, graphite.

Silliest ad campaign ever. And silly people seem to buy it.

[blondeatlast]

40. Nutshell--exactly. nt

[seabeyond]

39. i find this more interesting, democratic women, how many

wear diamonds, wear fur.

i am hearing a lot of women that just dont mess with this stuff. i know getting married bought a seashell ring to get married, told husband emphatically i did not want a diamond engagement ring

are dem women more likely to reject these things cause we dont buy into what a woman is,.........with outside appearance

we also have more fun with sex

does these go hand in hand, lol and a wink

[blondeatlast]

42. Well, when you're frustrated, a shiny rock and a warm, soft coat

probably are pretty desirable, if you catch my drift.

I have a loving, GIVING partner, so I feel no need for compensation, again, if you catch my drift!

[ultraist]

41. I didn't know about this until recently

But I've thought wearing fur is disgusting and immoral since I was a child. I really didn't even like the idea of cow leather but I do wear leather shoes.

There are MANY, MANY products that are made with child labor or by unethical means and I'm sure NO ONE in the US can claim everything they own was produced and sold ethically.

[gollygee]

47. Oh I agree

I chose those two because they are two things that nobody needs -- are entirely ornamental.

It is impossible to only buy products produced morally. I try but I know I fail time and time again.

But in the case of the fur and diamond industires, no one needs fur or diamonds. I have to drive a car where I live. I have to buy clothing. I have to eat food. I can try to be careful in regard to what I buy but I have to have some kind of food and clothing and I need some gas. I do not need any fur or diamonds ever. It is very easy to avoid those two things.

Those two things seem to be the most obvious completely unnecessary items that are immoral.

[ultraist]

53. You don't NEED a computer either or a lot of other things you own

Are you a vegetarian? How much do you drive a week?

How much volunteer work for needy people do you do a week? What percentage of your income do you donate?

Do you live a PURE lifestyle as far as social responsiblity and environmentally?

Point being, judging someone on one thing, such as if they wear a diamond, is myopic.

[gollygee]

55. No one lives a pure lifestyle

my point is comparing these two ornamental unnecessary items. There is a lot of media attention given to one, but none given to the other.

[seemslikeadream]

57. 4 million dead - the forgotten Holocaust

Poll: Congo War Is World's Top 'Forgotten' Crisis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1299318

1 vote

Does that tell you what's important?

[sk8tenn]

62. What about Tundra Diamonds from Canada?

Why dismiss all diamonds out of hand? Why not support Canadian Tundra diamonds for things like weddings etc.?

[ultraist]

63. Because for some...

it's more fun to sit around and be judgmental and classist and make out "certain" Democrats to be evil and selfish.

There is a long list now of what makes a person worthy from these classist threads.

No living in the suburbs
Not more than 2 tvs
No diamonds
No SUV (even though old beater pieces of shit cars pollute more)
No income over 89k
No house over a small 2 bedroom

Lists like this sound like a lower income rednecks going off about liberal elites.

[gollygee]

69. My post wasn't meant to be classist

I appear to be of the same socio-economic group as you based upon what you've typed.

It's about choices, but beyond that about marketing. The anti-fur crowd has done a much better job of getting their message out than other groups. I compare furs to diamonds because both are produced unethically and both are expensive and serve no real function - they're just ornaments.

I don't think anyone here is evil. I'm just amazed how much more we as a society know about the fur industry than the diamond industry.

[bicentennial_baby]

70. Why did this get moved to the lounge?

The fur and diamond trades aren't political topics? :shrug:

[seemslikeadream]

72. Especially when 21 million are dead because of it.

Loans provided by the International Monetary Fund, World Bank and G8 have traditionally included strategies known as Structural Adjustment Programs (SAPs) which came in to effect in Africa in 1980. SAPs require that governments reduce public spending (especially on health, education and food/storage) in order to pay Western Banks. They must also increase exports of raw materials to the West, encourage foreign investment and privatize state enterprises. Instead of reducing the debt, since 1980 SAPs have increased African debt by 500 percent, creating a domino effect of disasters (prolonged famine, conflict, abject poverty, environmental exploitation) linked to an estimated 21 million deaths and, in the process, transferring hundreds of billion dollars to the West.

more
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/10.html

[bicentennial_baby]

75. One of the reasons I am majoring in African Studies

Well, a joint major in PoliSci/African Studies/French Language & Culture...

Everyone else may want to ignore the continent, but not me. Hopefully one day I will live there, if I am so lucky.

[flygal]

80. I simply can't buy into the value of diamonds

I wear my grandparent's depression era gold and platnum bands. When I got engaged and saw how small a diamond we could afford I thought it looked tacky. Like it put a value on us. One of the wealthiest women I know - good democrat - wore a gold band and I thought if it's good enough for her it's good enough for me.

I also have to say I know so many people with consumer debt that still feel they have to present themselves as better off by having rings on every finger or diamond earings. CZ for me.

[intrepid_wanderer]

82. WHY is it

... that so many posts on this thread are from the perspective that one persons good intentions / cause is less valid than this one??

If someone (hell anyone!) wants to do something for good... that's progress! If we can help them to recognize other things that are not right.. awesome!... but that shouldn't mean always telling them their ideas and thoughts are AFU!

cooperative argument vs. antagonistic argument


hrm.

[Freebird12004]

84. What a concept!

cooperation rather than antagonism

:hi: Welcome to DU

[intrepid_wanderer]

91. thanks Freebird12004

[latebloomer]

85. I asked for an emerald for my engagement ring

instead of a diamond-- in 1990. Goddess knows whether emerald miners are exploited as well, but it was the anti-apartheid issue at the time.

[Deja Q]

86. What's immoral about wearing a polished rock?

[seemslikeadream]

90. I guess it's who's involved in the polishing

Maria, a mother of three, lost her arm defending her children in Nizi, Eastern Congo. She says soldiers ate flesh from the arm after they had amputated it.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2097314

Tribal slave raids bring new wave of terror to Congo
(Filed: 09/03/2005)

Kidnapped families face punishment beatings and amputations, reports Adrian Blomfield in Tchomia

As though time had turned back at least a century, tribal raiders are swooping on the villages of eastern Congo and carrying off their human booty to slave camps where order is enforced with beatings and amputations.

They come in the cool hours before dawn, their presence announced by the clanging of a cow bell that echoes through the hillside hamlets of the Hema tribe, overlooking Lake Albert in Congo's Ituri district.

Armed with machetes and machineguns, the raiders scythe through the rows of huts, torching their thatched roofs.

Mothers clutching their screaming children run through the flames into the arms of their captors, members of a militia from the rival Lendu tribe.

The fat and the elderly, those unsuited for work on the Lendu farms or in the gold and mineral mines they illegally occupy, are hacked to death.

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