I was beginning to think I had a monopoly on idiots!

[jmowreader]

Yesterday was payday. The first thing I always do once I have some Yankee dollars in my hand is to buy some gasoline. So off I go to the gas station.

I ran up an $18.75 tab.

I then handed the cashier a $20 bill. He gave me $2.25 in change.

"This is the wrong amount of change. You gave me too much."

'No! That's exactly the amount of change you should have!'

It took me FIVE FUCKING MINUTES to teach this clod enough basic math to know that when someone spends almost $19 buying gas, and he only gives you $20, you shouldn't give him $2 in change back!

I swear, in my next life I'm coming back as a math teacher!

[amazona]

1. This doesn't make sense

I don't understand how or why you have time out of your busy day to teach math to a store clerk. Keep the extra money. Plenty of times when you are too busy to notice, the mistake will go the other way, and you will be shorted.

If you always correct mistakes in your favor, but (assuming you are fallible) sometimes miss mistakes that go against you, then you are cheating yourself.

It is wrong to embarrass someone over a minor mistake and make them feel an idiot when it is not costing you anything and indeed is putting a little extra change in your pocket.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[RetroLounge]

3. No, taking the money is wrong

under any circumstances. It's stealing, even if they give it to you, IMO.

Stealing money and justifying it is what the GOPers do, not us.

RL

[CTLawGuy]

5. its not stealing

if they give it to you willingly, even if they make a mistake. They are responsible for making sure they give the right change.

Obviously if it they catch it after the fact, you should give the extra money back. but if they don't catch the mistake, it's their fault.

[RetroLounge]

6. Yeah, okay, feel free.

:eyes:

RL

[CTLawGuy]

7. I do feel free thanks!

gas stations can charge whatever they want. If they can't count change correctly, it's not my problem, unless I get screwed.

It's about willingness.

Stealing requires two parties. One party must be unwilling to go through with the exchange.

I take your car stereo. I am willing to take it, you are not willing to give it away. Therefore, it's stealing.

If you have an extra candy bar and I ask for it, and you give it to me, there is no unwillingness, even if I don't "deserve" the candy bar in a moral sense. Therefore, no stealing.


If I get change and it's too little, then effectively I've paid a higher price than I agreed to by buying the gas. Therefore, if I notice and don't consent, I have the right to ask for correct change.

If I get more change than necessary, then I've paid a lower price than I agreed to, which I am not going to be unhappy about. But the clerk would have charged a lower price than he wanted to. But, by not checking, he shows he doesn't care that much about what he charges. He willingly gave the extra money, and I willingly accepted. So, there's no stealing.

[RetroLounge]

8. You keep telling yourself that.

I'm sure Dean would be proud of you...

RL

[CTLawGuy]

9. Dean has nothing to do with it

I believe people have to be responsible, including clerks.


Irrespective of whether you SHOULD give extra change back, taking extra change, when freely given, is not stealing.

[RetroLounge]

10. Nor is it responsible

but you know that already...

RL

[CTLawGuy]

11. what is "it" referring to in your subject line

giving incorrect change, or taking incorrect change?

[RetroLounge]

12. Now you are just trying to be cute

but it's not working.

But to anser your question, both. Duh...

RL

[CTLawGuy]

14. you are being needlessly hostile

I just expressed an opinion about whether this practice was stealing, and you interpret is as a personal attack.

Well it's not.

If I saw that a clerk at the register gave me more money than I was due, I'd probably correct him too, but if I noticed 3 hours later, I wouldn't sweat about it. I wouldn't consider myself a thief.

[RetroLounge]

16. Well now you are changing the paramaters

of the discussion.

and if you think I'm being hostile, then I guess the guilt must be eating at you. If you can point out a personal attack, let me know, I don't see it.

:hi:

RL

[CTLawGuy]

17. Your

"dean would be proud of you" comment was dripping with hostility.

I don't appreciate you dragging him into this. Whom I support politically is irrelevant to this discussion.

And then there's your accusation that I am "trying to be cute".

also, post 6 with the :eyes: is nothing but hostility. It expresses your annoyance with my contribution to the discussion.

[RetroLounge]

20. Hostile, yes, maybe, but not an attack

If you want to brag about stealing change from a clerk, feel free. Karma is a bitch.

p.s. I supported Dean as well, and I doubt he would support you stealing from a clerk, who may get fired for having a short drawer.

Oh, and apparently, you weren't being cute, my bad.

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Hostile enough for you? Dripping with it?

I'm done with this thread. B'Bye...

:hi:

RL

[CTLawGuy]

24. no more talking to brick walls

for me. Glad you're leaving, have a good day :bye:

and it's not stealing if he willingly gives it.

[RetroLounge]

Oooh, you got the last word..

oh, wait, you didn't

RL

[CTLawGuy]

26. I thought you said you were done with this thread

:shrug:

[RetroLounge]

28. I thought you were glad about it?

:shrug:

We could do this all day, but I'm feeling a bit silly. You?

RL

[CTLawGuy]

31. nope

I just hoped you weren't the type of person that couldn't handle simple disagreement.

I guess I was wrong.

[RetroLounge]

33. No problem with disagreement.

I think I'm right. You think you are.

It's all cool...

:hi:

RL

[CTLawGuy]

36. thats good

:pals:

[qnr]

13. That candy bar is the owners to give away. The change belongs to someone

else, and will get the clerk in trouble. It's your choice of course, but I believe in helping people when I can.

[CTLawGuy]

15. the clerk got himself in trouble

and its totally fine to help him, if you happen to notice. But it's not stealing if you don't notice, or even if you do.


This is true as long as the clerk doesn't realize his mistake and ask for money back. If he does and you refuse, then THAT is stealing. But if he doesn't notice due to laziness, there's no stealing.

[Misunderestimator]

18. What? If you KNOW they gave you too much, then it's unethical to keep it.

I'm sure I've been handed the wrong change, less and more, without counting what I've been handed, because I'm distracted or in a rush... that's not stealing. But KNOWING they gave you too much, even if it is not technically stealing, it is unethical.

[CTLawGuy]

19. If I knew I was handed the wrong change in my favor,

id probably correct him, but If I realized 3 hours later, I wouldn't rush back to the store and correct it.

that said, it's not stealing. He handed me the extra money willingly and personally. i didn't wave a gun in his face, I didn't trick him.

[Misunderestimator]

21. But that's not what happened here, he knew right away, and he did the

right thing. No one said anything about going back three hours later and walking a mile to return a penny or whatever. Please.

[CTLawGuy]

25. yes, he did what I would have done

but i just don't think it rises to the level of stealing, becuase there is no unwillingness.

[CTLawGuy]

23. What if you went up to buy gas one day

and the clerk told you there's a one-day half-price gas special, but you didn't see it advertised anywhere in the store or elsewhere.

And then he asked for the amount equalling half the normal price,

would you insist on paying full price?

would you ask whether the discount was approved by the clerk's management?

are you responsible for knowing what discounts the managment approve of?

would you feel like a thief if you did pay half-price?

[RetroLounge]

27. and what if monkeys flew out of the clerks ass

and handed you the wrong change?

:shrug:

RL

[CTLawGuy]

32. the clerk is responsible for the monkeys

so you could take change from them.

I thought you were leaving again?

[RetroLounge]

34. ROTFL

Okay, that was a nice comeback. It's all good...

"the clerk is responsible for the monkeys"

:hi:

RL

[Misunderestimator]

37. I find it irritating when people respond to the same damn post

twice with another ridiculous one. That's what.

As a matter of fact, I was filling up my tank once when I noticed that the gas was flowing, but nothing was showing up on the meter. I pressed the intercom button to ask the attendant what was wrong, and he arrogantly said "Just pump the gas!" After a few minutes of back and forth over the intercom, I went in and demanded that he come out and take a look at the pump while I was filling my tank. He grumbled something about me going to another pump when he realized that it was indeed giving me gas without registering anything.

Even though he pissed me off royally, I still could not have taken something that was not mine, and wouldn't in the same situation in the future.

[amazona]

30. sorry this is whack

If someone gives me money, it is not stealing for me to be courteous and take it instead of trying to embarrass them with a display of my supposed moral and intellectual superiority.

I am not going to make someone feel like **** over less than $2.

That is just impolite. It harms the person you made feel bad, and it harms your spirit because you indulged in the whole "I'm so superior" deal. No one benefits, and everyone loses.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[RetroLounge]

35. and if 20 people did the same thing, the clerk would be short

by $40.00, and get fired.

Now maybe he deserves it. Maybe not. But why help him get fired, as opposed to helping him see his mistake, and become a better employee and keep his job?

RL

[qnr]

4. Well, I agree with the embarrassing part to some extent. However,

they should be embarrassed period, for not knowing basic math. Perhaps pointing it out to them will prevent them from doing it to an even greater extent in the future, resulting in their discharge.

Just speaking for myself, I thoroughly check my receipts. I get shorted way more than the other way around - and I take action to get my money back. I also make sure the store doesn't get shorted - not so much for the stores benefit, as for the clerks own benefit, so that they do not come up short at the end of their shift, and have to explain why.

[qnr]

2. That annoys me too. And the people in the line behind me looking at

me like I'm an idiot for giving up free cash. Strange world.

[TrustingDog]

22. Render unto Exxon what is his. n/t

[RetroLounge]

29. I started a poll on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2818800

RL