OK, guys, I've got something to say about GD

[Bouncy Ball]

Here's the deal--if GD is getting overrun with people who, shall we say, don't need to be here (spouting right-wing talking points), then that's all the MORE reason for people who SHOULD be on DU to be over there doing everything we can to get people who shouldn't be here outta here (I'm trying to word this so carefully).

I know a lot of you wouldn't go over there if someone peeled off your toenails, and that's fine, that's certainly your choice.

But if you won't go there because you hear a lot of right-wing crap in GD, that's stuff that we should be hitting the alert button on.

Do NOT let people who are echoing right wing talking points take over a forum at DU. Because I suspect this might be slowly happening over there, I am going to be in GD far more often. This is OUR website.

[Randi_Listener]

1. Fuck 'em in the ear.

Let those motherfuckers troll all day.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. Well, obviously I don't agree.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Randi_Listener]

46. He's fucked up on Jack and waters.

He's still hitting the goddamn sauce.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[skypilot]

3. I don't think it's just...

...right-wing talking points that keep some people out of General Discussion. I'm pretty sure that some people don't like to hang out there because some discussions get too heated and degenerate into bickering and hostility--even among the folks who aren't trolls.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. Well, that's true, too.

And if that's not to someone's liking, then of course they should stay out of GD.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. It's admins website

and the moderators moderate. When admin gets sick of having a website where monthly donors become more scarce and people post right wing talking points while making a 5 dollar a year contribution, they'll deal with it more effectively.

I'm starting to give up. When it takes months to get rid of an obvious freeper such as ALiciaKeyedUp, something's wrong. Polite right wing bullshit is still right wing bullshit.

[StopTheMorans]

5. I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph NSMA; it's why i left

GD last fall :thumbsup:

[Bouncy Ball]

8. GD suffers for it, in my opinion.

You have good things to say.

[StopTheMorans]

9. yes, but I was getting sick of wasting my time repeatedly alerting on

obvious trolls, and then watching while they racked up 1000's of posts over the course of weeks and months while just barely skirting the rules (and often subtly breaking them). in the meantime, long-time DUers who called them out and WERE RIGHT repeatedly got warnings and were threatened with bannings. not really my idea of an enjoyable day-to-day activity...

[Bouncy Ball]

12. That's not been my experience

but maybe I only go for the really obvious ones.

I'm sorry that happened. I certainly have missed a lot of you over there.

[StopTheMorans]

14. thanks for the compliments:)

i pop in every few days, but don't plan on going back until there is closer to a zero-tolerance policy for comments that even closely resemble right-wing talking points (i'm not asking for a change of policy b/c it's not my site; just saying that i don't feel that it's as much fun as it used to be in there).

[Bouncy Ball]

7. Good points.

And the polite right wing bullshit drives me crazier than anything. There are ways we DUers can deal with that, too, though.

[xmas74]

10. Just pm me the name.

I enjoy fighting w/ freepers-I just don't want to fight with the good guys (us)!
And I have no qualms about putting someone in their place.

[Bouncy Ball]

26. Ok

will do!

:hi:

I hope a certain other DUer sees your offer, too. She's a warrior.

[xmas74]

29. No prob.

I have a freeper at another site that I fight with constantly. I chased the a-hole off.

[Maestro]

50. Amen

I love getting into it with them. They are such idiots that anyone with two brain cells connected can put them in their place. I really don't mind so much. It's frustrating but I love debating them and making them look like the asses that they are. The more that pile on them, the better.

[xmas74]

95. I had one

inform me once that my daughter needed to be taken away from me since I have no problems bringing a "bad element" into my home (he was referring to the fact that one of my closest friends is gay).
He also stated that, by being pro-choice, I needed to be reported to the authorities since I am more likely to abuse my child (since I don't care if someone "kills babies". )
Before I was personally attacked, I used to sit back and say that we had two different opinions and that it was nice to be able to discuss them. Now, I just slash and burn their asses!:evilgrin:

[mike_c]

11. yeah, I've been dismayed by some of the shockingly conservative...

...opinions expressed in GD, but not just lately-- I feel like it has been that way for some time. I remember having threads critical of the U.S. role in Iraq absolutely overwhelmed by "support the troops" nonsense over a year ago. I thought it was especially bad during the campaign, and seemed to have improved a bit shortly after the election, but it's growing worse again, IMO. Much of the problem seems to be plain incivility. After all, DU attracts a diverse group of people, so I'd expect (and appreciate) diverse opinions, but many seem unable to express themselves civilly.

Case in point: in the recent thread about Texas seizing assets of Medicaid patients, I said I believe that society has an obligation to provide care for the elderly without making them destitute, e.g. we should let them keep their home for their children if they've been able to buy one, to which someone replied "YOU are SELFISH and GREEDY!" Now, aside from their apparent misunderstanding of my comments, their response was unnecessarily uncivil. That's what has discouraged me the most about GD during the last year or so.

[Bouncy Ball]

15. I hear ya.

And that's really too bad.

Makes me want to go over there and fight even more.

The biggest thing I've noticed (besides obvious disruptors) is the declining quality in the thread topics. (But that's just my opinion!) That's not something I have any answer for besides posting meaty, thoughtful threads to counterbalance that.

Also, this may be a cyclical thing.

[Thtwudbeme]

13. We've ALL done advanced searches on you

we know your agenda!

[Bouncy Ball]

18. heh heh

I bet advanced searches on me are tres weird.

I'm all OVAH the place!

[Thtwudbeme]

22. I HAD to laugh at that post; it was the only one that

day that I showed to Michael (hey, you gotta see this one!)

;)

[Califooyah Operative]

60. hahaha. nt

[GOPBasher]

16. Ummm aren't those threads deleted and the posters tombstoned?

[Bouncy Ball]

21. Nooooot necessarily.

No. People have to hit alert for it to come to the attention of the mods, as they don't sit there watching it all day (and no one would expect them to).

Then the mods make a decision. I think the hardest thing to deal with are people who "walk the line" as I call it. They go right up to those right wing talking points, are careful to be very polite about it, then back off, then do it all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

And on edit, very few people are tombstoned for ONE post, unless that one post is so egregious that they have to be. Usually there has to be a pattern of behavior.

Which is only fair. I've had a thread deleted and a couple of them locked, so if it was one strike and you were out (for non-really bad stuff), I'D have been tombstoned! LOL!

[GOPBasher]

24. I see.

[Beware the Beast Man]

17. Bewteen the disruptors, hystericals and toe-the-line-or-else hardliners,

I gave up on GD months ago.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

19. I've recently started to go back to GD

Although I'm using the "hide thread" function a lot. :)

[Bouncy Ball]

25. Well slap me upside the head.

I totally forgot about the hide thread function. I'm going to have to use that again.

Thanks!

[KoKo]

20. It's not just "GD." It's "GD Politics" too. How many more

".________for President in 2008," and "Why isn't Dean Speaking Out?" threads do we need? How many more articles from Fox, Washington Times, etc...should be posted as rebuttal to Democratic views. Those sites used to be banned here, but now they are allowed. :shrug:

[Bouncy Ball]

23. Now THAT forum I rarely ever venture into.

I am a bit burned out on strict politics right now, and I wanted a wider variety of topics, so I started going back to GD. GD: Politics I just peek at every so often and then go back out, usually.

[Misunderestimator]

27. I agree...

I've noticed a trend there, and have been issuing red alerts now for the past week... it's a shame that they get to soil in our sandbox for so long.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

28. It's not just rightwing talking points.

Look at the threads last night where people were accusing Olbermann and John Stewart of crossing over to the darkside. Paranoia runs rampant in GD and is, in many ways, just as bad as the rightwing talking points.

[Maestro]

The paranoia thing

does get to me at times, but relatively speaking it is just a few. At least it seems that way from my point of view.

[WhirlyGirl]

73. But please bear in mind: Just because you're paranoid...

... that doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you. Or that they can't get you while PRETENDING to be on your side and "one of you."

The discussion last night re Keith's story examining the possible effects of the "Bush Doctrine" in the Middle East was a case study in right wing smear techniques.

However, it appears that to DESCRIBE the techniques, and point out how they're being deployed within the current discussion in order to neutalize the smear, was considered BAD MANNERS.

Heaven forbid we should call the bluff of visitors spreading lies (masquerading as earnest and heartfelt "expressions of concern"), and even working in teams to accomplish that end! We might hurt their feelings!

How in the heck are Dems ever going to succeed if the only destroyers we recognize are the ones who arrive wearing signs around their necks reading, "Hi! I'm here to nuke the reputations of everyone who might be able to do some good for this country!"

"When a tyrant appears, he first comes as your protector," goes the old adage. Facryinoutloud, friends: Freepers can sound terribly, sincerely *in your corner* while dismantling everything you're trying to build!

Yeah... I know... okay...
Here endedth the sermonette for the day.

Yours very truly,
WhirlyG

[Celeborn Skywalker]

76. self delete

[WhirlyGirl]

78. Huh??? Jaredh, you replied to the wrong post.

I defended Olbermann against those questioning his skepticism toward the administration's spin.

(If you click the wrong "reply" link, the discussion doesn't follow logically!)

[Celeborn Skywalker]

82. oops! sorry about that

My brain's not working right today.

[WhirlyGirl]

90. Hey, it could happen to anyone...

[LeftCoast]

93. Some of those posts ranked as the stupidest I've ever read on DU

I was shocked by the mind-numbingly moranic postings of one DUer in particular. They got added to my possible freeper list, in fact.

[havocmom]

30. Perhaps the words you are looking for are:

Don't let people shit in our house.

Did I get the gist of it? ;)

I agree with you Bouncy Ball. The wingers count on us just rolling over and playing dead while they espouse nonsense and substitute their talking points for a real, rational dialog. That game-plan just didn't work for us and we need to toughen up and get our points made. That is why the right tried so hard to make Dean a none-player. He understands the need to get the message out there. :thumbsup:

[Redstone]

31. You got the gist of it, and shamed me into going back

to GD as soon as I have some time. Can't solve a problem by ignoring it.

Redstone

[havocmom]

32. No shame involved. Just a nudge for us all to do the right thing.

We need our good guys in the fight. Glad you made the decision to stay in the there. You are correct, ignoring a problem doesn't fix it. You have much to offer and your areas of expertise are very helpful around here.

A nice, analytic approach is good balance to those of us who work with a more emotion-evoking strategy. The more facets we have, the harder we are to break, much like diamonds. And like diamonds, we are much more plentiful than the mine owners would like people to realize ;)

[Bouncy Ball]

41. Great post and great points.

[SOteric]

33. And now, for a slightly differing perspective.

Let me start by asserting outright that I don't like the idea of sharing these fora with conservatives and arguing my viewpoints with them. I like the notion that DU is a haven for liberals and progressives. I'd very much like it to stay that way.

That said, I do agree with Bouncy Ball that if conservative viewpoints are expressed in GD and GD:Fight Club, it's an obligation of love for the liberal way of life to hit the alert and as eloquently as possible, address and discuss the more liberal perspective.

But here's the rub: As an individual who's spent several terms as a moderator I can assure that there are times when the citizenry in general seem to see Freepers lurking behind every corner. I don't know if it's a phase of the moon or a group ennui that overtakes us. There are times when this place takes on the uncomfortable tone of "she's a witch! burn her!!"

I do not envy the Moderators and Administrators trying to balance the peace at such a time.

DU does not welcome conservatives. Yet, it is not against the rules to be a fairly lukewarm liberal, middle of the road in your politics, or even a dyed-in-the-wool, tree-hugging progressive with one or two conservative opinions.

Truly, it is a difficult task to ferret out from time to time, and I can't say that I'd admire the "nuke 'em all and let god sort it out" technique of banning anyone with a faintly conservative notion in their heads. Heck, I have a few allegedly conservative notions about Social Security, so I'd probably be banned in the 2nd wave.

Most of those of us who've been here a while know that it's against the rules to call a Poopyhead a Poopyhead until they've been banned. But there are still some who persist, either because it's too fun to resist or they don't believe there are consequences. It's still against the rules to call someone a Freeper and whether you see the consequences immediately or feel them down the road, there are consequences.

One of the most effective ways to assist the Moderators in sorting the liberals with a conservative notion or two from the a Right Wingers is to engage them in discussion. (Within the boundaries of the posting rules, please.) The more they talk the easier it is to figure out who is whom.

Okay, I've said my piece. My coffee's getting cold and that's just wrong and bad.

[DS1]

35. I'm made of wood

:D

[loudestchick]

66. burn! Burn!

[Bouncy Ball]

39. Great post

and I totally agree. I do try to draw them out when my radar goes off. That way at least they end up saying something that is TRULY ban-able.

Thanks!

[Rhiannon12866]

34. I think you have an excellent point.

There's not much point in belonging here if we let disruptors scare us away. I'll make an effort to visit GD more often. *sigh*:shrug:

[Beetwasher]

36. Hardened GD Warrior Here

Any of you wanna rumble, stick w/ me, I'll take you under my wing and show you how it's done!

I never hit alert though, I like to engage and kick ass and make them look stupid!

[Bouncy Ball]

40. But see once you draw them out

and get them actually spouting right wing stuff, THEN you hit the alert button and it's enough to get rid of them.

That's what I love to do. And I do see you over there. :hi:

[steve2470]

44. check out my latest post there. I'm ready to rumble nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. What depresses me more is the flamewars among those who are longtime

posters here and bonafide liberals. I don't mind differences of opinion, but when the name calling starts among our own it's downright depressing over there.

[DS1]

38. Thank God. I roll my eyes so far into my head when I see

"Ack! I'm hiding" and think to myself, "Fuck you pal, get back in there"

[Bouncy Ball]

43. LOL

I think I've posted a few "screw it, I'm going in!" posts here in the lounge about GD. And then I came back, disturbed.

But I won't STAY out. What is that stupid saying about "all our bases are mine?" Applies to DU.

[Lone Pawn]

45. "All our bases are mine?" I don't think so.

As a result of the undeniable fact that we get signal, compounded with the horrific events that would be unleashed should somebody set up us the bomb--we would have no chance to survive, and any effort to make your time would be fruitless--we have two choices. We can either attempt to move 'zig' (tempting, as you know what you doing), or, as a precautionary measure, you can cede control of all of your bases to the community. I would advocate the latter--the only way to ensure great justice is to ensure that all your base are, now and forever, belong to us.

Sorry.

[Bouncy Ball]

47. Um, sorry but what the hell are you talking about?

[GiovanniC]

49. Nerd-Reference About "All Your Base Are Belong to Us"

[PleadTheFirst]

55. What you say?

All your base video, for anyone curious:
http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/AYB2.swf



For Great Justice,
PTF

[DS1]

56. Set us up the bomb. Make your time

[Maestro]

57. Funny!

Was that quote originally from a poorly translated Japanese video game or what?

[PleadTheFirst]

58. I think that's exactly what happened.

ZIG! ;)

[GiovanniC]

48. The Problem I Often Notice

You'll be reading along in a thread and all of a sudden you'll see something that could have just as easily come out of Ann Coulter's mouth. For example:

• I don't think our children should be exposed to the homosexual agenda.
  
• Things in the Middle East are going great because of the war in Iraq.
  
• Social Security is in big trouble and investing in personal accounts is the answer to our problems.

Other times (far more rarely), you'll see what appears to be a right-wing exaggeration of a tree-hugging hippie pot-smoking liberal, like so:

• I hate the military and think they are all murderers, rapists and baby-killers!
  
• I hope there are lots more terrorist attacks, especially in the red states, to teach this country a lesson.
  
• Rich people should be taxed at 100%.

When I see posts like these, I do a search on the author's name and typically find that pretty much every single post of theirs is something that you would find on Free Republic. The same poster that is anti-choice is often also gung-ho about the war, supports social security privatization, wants prayer in the school, etc. I saw one yesterday where the poster said "Poor people are poor because they choose to be poor."

If you call them on this shit, they claim to be a moderate and then mock the idea of the big tent. "What's the problem?" they'll say. "Isn't there room in the big tent for a moderate (or pro-life, or pro-war, etc.) Democrat?"

Often any one particular opinion will not expose them as a freeper troll, but the body of their opinions taken together paints quite a different picture. The fact is that there ARE some pro-life Democrats, and there ARE some Democrats who are pro-death penalty, et cetera. But usually if you look at their other posts, you'll see all the other progressive opinions they have and realize there is just a disagreement on a particular issue.

I don't know what can be done when you don't want to censor every single opinion that doesn't match lock-step with the Democratic platform, but you're not allowed to call someone out as a Freeper Troll even if they are one. You can alert on any one post in particular... but the problem is that any one opinion might not expose a troll for what they are. Do mods look at the other postings that a user makes if they seem to be making a post regurgitating right-wing talking points?

[Bouncy Ball]

54. That's why I love advanced search using the poster's name.

And you are right, they are usually in one of those two categories.

The second category I tend to roll my eyes at, but the first, I do an advanced search on their name, then draw them out to get them to say enough to hit alert on.

[Robeson]

51. Know what you mean....

...I was over there the other day, and this time, it only took to my second post before some smarmy person had to attack what I was saying. I was impressed, because it usually takes at least three posts before that happens, but no, now its down to two! The thing was, I made a completely innocuous/harmless post, yet someone found a reason to attack it. Its like some of them are hiding behind rocks waiting to lunge on anything.

[arwalden]

52. I Thought It Was Becoming The Gathering Spot For Kooks And Wackos...

... with their paranoid alien-implant theories and satellite mind control fears.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. Once your implant is removed, you'll quit saying that

:evilgrin:

[arwalden]

68. That's The Thing That's Protecting Me From Satellite Mind-Control Rays!!

As long as it surrounds me with a force field, then I'm willing to sacrafice my privacy by letting them use the alien-implant to track my every move.

They're reading your email too, you know.

[Bouncy Ball]

59. Welp, I just spent a few hours over there.

And I'm exhausted. Teachers getting beat the hell up, videos of teachers acting like total assholes.

People making weird assumptions all over the place. I'm still going to go back (have to go out now), but whew, that was really tiring.

[sandnsea]

61. What's a RW talking point?

When the left repeats shit that the right uses to slam the Democratic Party, I consider that right wing talking points. When the left repeats the stupidity that everything is a CIA operation, I consider that playing into the hands of the right by allowing the entire Democratic Party to be portrayed as fringe lefty loonies. I think there are right wing moles who are actually paid to be here and do this shit in order to disrupt and get others to make crazy statements that they can post all over the web or print or read on cablenews.

So I don't know what you're talking about specifically, but I know there are Democrats at DU who wish the left would shut up sometimes too.

[Bouncy Ball]

63. I rarely ever wish the left would shut up

ALL groups have their nuts.

And btw, the right can take almost anything posted here out of context to make it look crazy, then post it everywhere.

[sandnsea]

65. I think I see the post

I disapprove. It's actually exactly what I'm talking about. The right wing loves to stir up disruption amongst Democrats and it's so easy to do. "Democrat X" is such and such, and there's always somebody willing to jump in and help perpetuate the picture under the guise of helping the party somehow. At DU, it tends to come more from the far left, but on occasion it comes from other places.

Right wing talking point. Democrats want to appease terrorists and blame America first. Along comes Ward Churchill. I happen to agree with his premise, but because he said what he meant in such a stupid way and has chosen to continue down that path instead of reframing his arguments to open up the debate; it makes it impossible for most people to even discuss terrorism in any realistic terms. Add to that the CIA conspiracy theory behind every single terrorist act which, again, makes it impossible to talk about illegal activities by the CIA, and I end up wishing the left would just shut up.

[northamericancitizen]

67. "When the left repeats shit.... RW talking points."

Good observation. Unfortunately not everybody are honest or courageous enough to question their own attitude.

lise

[Lone Pawn]

64. The Rules of GD.

1. You are a liberal. Act like it. You're like sunscreen: apply liberally. If any given post could conceivibly be more liberal, then it was clearly written by a freeper. Freepers are everywhere. PH33R 73H FR33P.

2. You are not a conservative. You must never be suspected of ever approving of anything conservative. If anything is positive, failure to credit it to a liberal means you are a freeper. If anything is negative, failure to blame Bush for personally instigating it means you are a freeper.

3. If you are in an argument, and you run out of facts, claim they are clearly lying throw the burden of proof on them. Reject any proof given.

4. It's us vs. them. And everyone in the South is a 'them.' As are all Christians. Despite the fact that four fifths of the nation is Christian, we really don't want their votes.

5. As it is us vs. them, the terms "Religious Right," "Freeper," "Neocon," "Republican," and "Conservative" are interchangable. Don't be afraid to call an isolationist member of the RR a Neocon! Don't be afraid to call a conservative professor a freeper!

6. Kool-aid is your favorite metaphor. It's always witty. Even if you've never heard of Jim Jones.

7. Kerry won. In a landslide. Do not attempt to talk strategy for '06 or '08. We won. We won in '02 and '00. Hell, we won in '84. We always win. We have no problems. We are perfect.

8. Once again--if you run out of arguments, they are a freeper.

9. If you are pro-life, pro-death-penalty, anti-affirmative-action, or God help you, pro-war, you are not wanted. Please vote Republican. This is a site for liberals, and liberal is defined as 'unable to be further from George W. Bush.'

10. Believe in conspiracies like freepers believe in the Rapture.

I ordinarily like GD, but we've had a bad crowd recently. Everyone's either a troll or calling everyone else a troll.

[Bouncy Ball]

79. And most of your "rules" are melodramatic bullshit.

9. If you are pro-life, pro-death-penalty, anti-affirmative-action, or God help you, pro-war, you are not wanted. Please vote Republican. This is a site for liberals, and liberal is defined as 'unable to be further from George W. Bush.'

Like that one. This IS a site for liberals, go read the posting rules.

[Lone Pawn]

97. i know this is a site for liberals.

i wouldn't be here if it wasn't. i am simply saying that if someone walks in who is, say, a pro-life democrat, they'll end up being flamed unless they preface everything with 'i'm still a democrat don't flame me.'

[Bouncy Ball]

80. Dupe.

[Bouncy Ball]

81. Dupey dupe.

[Bouncy Ball]

83. Dupety-dupe-dupe.

[ProfessorGAC]

92. You Don't Do Well In Debates, Do You?

Opinion, supported by opinion, supported by conjecture, which is consistent with your opinion.

Absolutely unbrilliant.
The Professor

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

102. Except he is a professor, so I will give you a minute to edit that part

of your post that attacks him prior to taking action.

Next point, nice broad brush you got there. EVERYONE in GD cannot agree on damn near anything so while you attack the forum via ad hominems, you prove his point rather nicely.

[Lone Pawn]

106. it doesn't matter if he's a professor or not

it is not germane to the point of discussion, and i believe the only purpose of its mention is an attempt to gain respect that otherwise would not be granted. when used in a combatitive setting, especially a dismissive one, it's a rather pitiful attempt at elitism--especially when he misunderstood the somewhat bombastic nature of my post.

and technically speaking, neither post constituted an ad hominem attack. when the point of the debate is the conduct of a group of people, it is not a fallacy to remark upon those same people. think for a second about why ad hominem is a fallacy.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

107. If it isn't germane then why did you bring it up?

[Lone Pawn]

109. he brought it up.

i stated my belief that it was not germane, and my belief that it weakened his case.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

111. No he did NOT bring it up but for his name. You brought it up.

And the best you could do to challenge him was attack him ad hominem..

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lone Pawn]

99. how amusing

apparently complaining that people are attacked unfairly for being 'freepers' when they're democrats with one 'wrong' position makes one a freeper.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

100. One wrong position? You defended about 25 freeper positions with

your post. Nobody takes anyone down over 1 position. It's usually a pattern over time. If someone posts all those positions you jockeyed for in your persecution post, they deserve a tombstone...and would most probably get one.

[Lone Pawn]

101. *sigh* i didn't say any one person did any of those.

actually, my only freeper position is believing kerry lost. what i was saying, of course, is that anyone possessing one position will be called a freeper unless they go far out of their way to avoid appearing as one.

however, i do seriously doubt anyone could hold a number of the above positions and not deserve to be tombstoned.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

104. And if someone calls you a freeper for believing Kerry lost

you can hit that little alert button and the post will be removed.
For the record, my witness is that one can hold ALL of those positions and still post here and not be tombstoned.

Conservatives and Bush supporters cannot claim a persecution complex at DU. They agreed to the rules when they registered and those rules say they are not welcome here.

Since Bush lovers and conservatives are all for free enterprise, you'd think they'd respect the rules of this free enterprise and leave us the fuck alone.

[Lone Pawn]

108. i haven't been called a freeper for believing kerry lost

what annoys me isn't persecution, but the general xenophobia of gd. it's not much fun to read through or participate in a thread where everyone is so defensive. it's irritatingly predictable--though it can be amusing if a genuine freeper starts a post.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

110. Then why stay here and torture yourself. BTW, as to your references

about whether Bush is to blame..you may wish to check the page of the rules which states that if you believe Bush os doing a good job, you are not welcome here. Again, conservatives believe in free enterprise. This free enterprise was founded on getting rid of Bush. IF you aren't supportive of that fact, then why participate here. The rules make it clear.

Any questions?

[Lone Pawn]

114. two questions.

1. if i find one problem in a generally entertaining forum, why ought i leave?

2. is it not possible to be a hard-left progressive, think that bush has done a terrible, abysmal job, disdain his domestic and foreign policies, and at the same time not blame him personally for, say, the flu vaccine shortage or sept. 11?

you're setting up a strawman. you keep talking about the freepers infesting the forum and complaining that they're being kicked out. i'm talking about real liberals being bashed as freepers because they hold a position or two polar to yours, but at the same time being just as committed to the left as you are.

[Misunderestimator]

117. OMG... I can't believe you get away with this shit!!

You are a real liberal? Please point out one "liberal" here who is being bashed as a freeper. You don't really count, given your original post.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

118. You didn't cite one problem, you cited many. Do you not read your

own words before hitting "post."


2. is it not possible to be a hard-left progressive, think that bush has done a terrible, abysmal job, disdain his domestic and foreign policies, and at the same time not blame him personally for, say, the flu vaccine shortage or sept. 11?

No. He is directly responsible for the flu vaccine shortages via his policies and he is directly responsible for 9/11 by ignoring the very real warnings issued in the months prior.

Again... I think you protest too loudly. Obviously I am not the final arbiter, but I plan to turn this over to those who are.

I'll let your own words be the judge.

[Misunderestimator]

112. If you are pro-life, pro-death-penalty, anti-affirmative-action, or pro-wa

r...you are not wanted.

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

Damn... what a good observation!!

You are absolutely correct... if you are anti-women's rights, pro-murder, anti minority rights, or you support Bush's war for OIL... YES... You are not welcome here!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

113. *sniff* but WHY??? I thought we were the big tent

[Lone Pawn]

116. hey, you wanna tell all the moderate dems they're republicans? okay.

most people don't think of 'republican' as an insult. they'll just go, 'okay, i guess i oughta vote for the republicans.'

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

119. Yes. Maybe we'd inspire real progressives to vote for us again

[Lone Pawn]

115. wait...

so you're telling me that bill clinton would not be welcome here? You're telling me john kerry would not be welcome here? you're telling me that hillary clinton would not be welcome here? you're telling me that al gore would not be wanted here? come on now.

oh, and war-for-oil? please. the hip bad guys have been pnac's geopolitical insanity and intended hegemony for a while now.

[Misunderestimator]

120. LMFAO

I really can't do anything but laugh at that ... oh man. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

69. Thank you for this topic

I really appreciate all you people do and write and am so glad to see this topic and all your responses because I am not alone. That is all. Except thanks again and I'm off to check out the GD again after leaving it later due to all this crap. Now I'm gone. bye and thanks.

[Bouncy Ball]

84. Well thank you right back!

:hi:

[Bluebear]

70. Thank you for posting this BB

I agree with all the posters on the right wing shills that seem to infiltrate just to get a rise out of us. I never saw a sorer bunch of losers in my life, they have the Prez, they have the Senate AND house AND the Supreme Court and still they need to rub in their little Hannity points for sport.

Having said that, it is disheartening to see posts here in the Lounge, which I also enjoy visiting, saying "I am hiding from GD, I need a shower after visiting there" etc. To me it is disrespectful of 'genuine' fellow DUers who enjoy the whole of DU. Comments like that used to be reserved for visits to a conservative forum!

[BikeWriter]

71. Show no mercy!

On our forum on another server we usually gag the stupid s.o.b.s. Their votes are what screwed America!

[da_chimperor]

72. I usually go though GD at least once a day.

If I see something objectionable and I know how to disprove them (in addition to the time involved) I'll do it. I prefer hanging out here though, it's much more . . . relaxing.

[Bouncy Ball]

85. Oh believe me I get in "lounge moods"

and I get in "GD moods."

Rare is the day when I frequent both (mostly because that would TAKE all day, LOL).

But I just wanted to encourage our saner members to get back into GD and use the alert button when necessary and not just hand it over to disruptors.

[da_chimperor]

91. I used to be hesitant alerting on people

but now I've been on DU long enough to be able to quickly identify disrupters. I'm in no way alert-crazy, but when I've identified one of him I won't hesitate. I usually then feel all warm and fuzzy and then go into the lounge with a smile on my face. :D

[RevCheesehead]

74. BB, you hit it right on the mark.

What pisses me off is that the alert button doesn't always seem to work. Just yesterday, I was directly attacked. The posts remain (although, thankfully, moved to Religion Forum). My only defense was to put the asshole on ignore. But before I did, I did a search on his posts. Guess what - he used the same confrontational arguments, same mis-direction, same everything on at least two separate occasions. One of those topics was still active, so I hit alert, saying "there's a pattern here. This guy's a freeper."

Funny thing is, Skinner tells us to hit the alert and let the mods deal with it. But when they fail to delete posts which are personal attacks, what recourse do we have? And why is their stuff allowed to remain, but we can't call them a troll?

I may still join in, but I'm through with arguing. There are polite ways of disagreeing.

Thank you for having the courage to take on the fight.

[Bouncy Ball]

86. I've only had that happen once

(where I hit alert and nothing happened).

I'm sorry that happened. Did you ask about it in the ATA forum? Sometimes that's the best thing to do. I just tell myself that mods are humans, this is a hard job (I've considered applying, but DAMN it seems hard!) and I go through their posts I get on an advanced search and hit alert on every single disruptive right wing one.

You could also send a PM to a mod or mods.

Thanks!

(Get back in there, you!)

:hi:

[hfojvt]

75. are trolls the problem?

I thought it was people with strong opinions in the big tent who argue in a flaming manner.

[Bouncy Ball]

89. Funny thing

I don't really mind liberals arguing with strong opinions.

I've disagreed with other liberals here. But that really doesn't bother me, because in the end, I know we're on the same side.

It's the trolls that bother me, thinking they're being clever with their posts they think are so disguised and sly. They aren't disguised, they aren't sly about it, and advanced search is the best thing on this site. With that, you can see a pattern and be more confident about that radar.

The arguing in a flaming manner from other liberals? Eh. If it's bad enough, of course hit alert. But otherwise, I just try to stay unemotional. The ones who flame don't realize when you get all out of control angry, you've already lost in a way.

[mattclearing]

77. Funny thing, I've been spending a lot of time in GD lately.

And the DP forum, which I like, but it doesn't get the kind of traffic I would like to see it get.

I'm kinda curious as to where I fit in on this whole thing.

I remember before the Clinton years, I was a leftist Democrat, and then during the Clinton years, I was pretty happy with Clinton for the first five years or so.

I was extremely displeased with the Telecom Act, and am still not sure how to feel about welfare to work, but I recognize that the balanced budgets and the decreased assistance sends a signal that the Democratic Party is no longer about tax and spend without accountability, which is a complaint that, valid or not, resonated with voters.

Florida, 9/11, the Iraq War, and Coronation 2004 all have combined to turn me into something just short of a radical.

I was aware of DU, and had a favorable opinion of it, and had lurked here a few times. It wasn't until the election, and the obvious foul stench, that I came here to see what was really happening, because I instinctively knew that this would be THE place where people would air out any and all suspicions regarding the likelihood of fraud.

I have some views that are kinda controversial for DU, though. I think globalization might work if properly policed by individual governments and leadership with a mind toward labor standards and limiting corporations' capabilities.

I used to think Wesley Clark was a Clinton-appointed Dean spoiler, and a former Republican at that, though I've now been cured of that notion.

I've jumped the Freeper gun a number of times on people who turned out to be blue through and through, and then been totally shamed by it, and I've only been here five months.

I guess my point is, "Where does one draw the line between having a mind of their own, toeing the DU line, believing what they see in the news, and saying things that have been said by members of the right wing?"

[Bouncy Ball]

87. You don't ever compromise on having a mind of your own, that's how.

That being said, it sounds like you fit in her just fine. This really is a big tent party.

I don't know of any DU line to toe to be quite honest.

And I feel like I've developed radar for right wing bullshit. That and it's so easy to spot since they just mouth whatever rush or hannity or anyone one of the other right wing mental midget freaks are saying that day or week.

Sounds like you're doing great! Don't let it shame you, we all make a mistake here and there. Just hit alert, don't say anything about hitting alert on the thread, and let the mods decide.

[ProfessorGAC]

88. GD Is My Most Common Forum!

I'm there, or in the Lounge, sometimes LBN, the IL forum, and then musician and sports groups. But GD and The Lounge probably makes up 70%. No freepers are chasing me out of GD. The more they show their tiny minds, the more i'll be there to provide them with those miniscule measurements.
The Professor

[SarahB]

96. It seems like every time I'm there...

Some douchebag that I've never heard of tries to pick a fight with me over something completely innocuous. It's tedious, so I just frequently read LBN and post in the Lounge these days.

[enigmatic]

103. Not gonna do it...

I don't go there because I hear alot of right-wing crap, I don't go there because I see alot of the "if you dare not to march in lockstep w/ "my" version of what a Democrat is, you're a right-wing freeper" posts. It's "black and white", "my way or the highway" garbage that I don't need to be involved with. And the "Jon Stewart and KO are going to the dark side" threads because they didn't have the right inflection in their voice BS last night is just the latest example of what I mean.

I'm a Liberal, a proud one. But I know if I were to go there and actively debate on threads that I find to be worth my time and express my opinions, I'd be called every name in the book because to a great chunk of the regular posters over there because in their minds, I'm not "Liberal" enough. The Circular Firing Squad mentality literally makes me want to vomit. And it happens every day over there.

Are there Freepers in disguise over there? Absolutely. But everybody over there who dares to present a view that leans towards the middle (or even not "hard" left) is't a Freeper in disguise; they are just as much Democratic party as those who think their idealogical purity trumps everyone else's. And when they don't see it, they attack. I don't need that shit; I know who I voted for and how I spent my time for Liberal causes that mean alot to me, even living up here in Canada.

I don't go there because I want to escape Freepers in disguise; I don't go there because I want to to escape those who think that if you don't completely buy intoi their Pet Cause, you're not only not a Democrat, you're scum.

I don't need that.

[redqueen]

105. I have a real problem with guilt... you've won me over.

It'll take me a while to get back to where I was last spring... but I'll get there.

Thanks for the kick in the pants. :D

[EstimatedProphet]

121. Locking

This thread has turned into a flamewar