Serious Cubs Marlins Poll

[VermontDem2004]

Who will win the NLCS

[ProfessorGAC]

1. I Voted. But, My Vote Was Compelled.

I could NOT vote against the Cubs. They could have been playing an android team and i would still have to hope against hope.

I really do think, though, they'll win it. Good pitching has such an advantage in the short term of a playoff series. This is especially true when there are 3 good pitchers all on one roster. It's not necessarily true that the hitters will see the pitchers enough times to figure them out. With three stud pitchers, it could be good for us long suffering Cub fans.
The Professor

[Drifter]

2. Talk about the Apocolyptic

World Series has of course jinxed it from happening. Now for some salt for the wounds.

The BoSox will of course embarrass themselves (again) and lose to the Yankees.

The Cubs will lose to the Marlins (as they would certainly deserve that). While some may figure the Cubs as the underdogs, the Marlins are more out of place in the playoffs.

Cheers
Drifter

[pmbryant]

3. I voted for the Cubs, but I think it's a tossup

I think these teams are pretty evenly matched.

:shrug:

--Peter

[VermontDem2004]

4. The Cubs won more games

in the regular season series against the Marlins. The Marlins can already cross off two games as loses.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. Hey Vermont!

Last week you were asking about Prior, and how good he was. How ya like him now? Pretty darn good, huh?

The guy looks like he's playing catch in the backyard, and then the radar gun says 96! What mechanics!
The Professor

[VermontDem2004]

6. I seen Prior

He looked really good, I haven't watched alot of Cubs games but I seen Kerry pitch once(5th game) and Prior pitch once and imo Prior looked better then Kerry, but watching one game of each pitcher is not enough to pass judgment imo, but Kerry looked Great, 8 innings and only 1 run allowed.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Prior Is The Goods

After a season and half of Mark, and 5 years of Kerry, my basic assessment is this:

Prior is THE GOODS! Wood is a very good pitcher, but i think he's better this year, because the pressure of being "the ace" is gone, (he's clearly the #2 starter now), and his focus and attention to mechanics is better since he sees how much it helps his teammate.

He has far better control than he even had at the beginning of this season, and challenges hitters more than he did the last couple of years.

Prior's poise is incredible for a 23 year old. He's steadied the whole pitching staff with his demeanor. Trust me on this Vermont, he's the real deal.
The Professor

[pmbryant]

7. Well, the Braves beat the Cubs in the regular season 4-2

So I don't know how much stock to place in their regular season matchups. Pitchers pitched then who won't be pitching now, etc.

What two games can the Marlins cross off as losses? Prior and Wood are good, but are not automatic wins. Even Pedro Martinez loses games occasionally (see game 1 of Oakland-Boston). ;-)

--Peter

[VermontDem2004]

9. He didn't lose that game

The closer or reliever or saver did. Whatever the f*** you call 'em.

[pmbryant]

14. Well, the Red Sox still lost

Whichever pitcher got the official credit for it. ;-)

[Chamfer]

8. I hate the Cubs/Red Sox for this reason.....

Seems these teams are the darlings of every bespectacled, bowtied nerdy journalist in the country. I feel like puking every spring when I read about how these teams are somehow more 'pure' just because they still play in rickety old ball parks with natural grass. Fenway, it was said, was somehow better because they eschewed most of the billboards that other parks allowed. Wrigley was more hallowed because for decades, they had no lights (the way baseball was meant to be played (gag)). The reality is these teams have sucked for decades, yet their fans are among the rudest and most self-righteous in the country. Tell you what. I'll take a team like the St. Louis Cards or the Atlanta Braves or the Minnesota Twins anyday. Their fans are hardworking, loyal, generally very polite, and the bread-and-butter salt-of-the-earth people that make the country great.

[XNASA]

11. Wrigley = Rickety?

You've obviously never been. It's a treasure.

The National League does play a more "pure" version of the game. American League games are lackluster IMHO.

I'm not sure where you live, but we also have "hardworking, loyal, generally very polite, and the bread-and-butter salt-of-the-earth people" here in Chicago as well.

[VermontDem2004]

15. I never been to Wrigley

but that is my favorite ball park, I never seen a ballpark that looked so nice. I hope the Cubs play there forever.

[flama]

117. Me too!

I've been outside, but never inside. My brother got that pleasure - in the press box no less!

Wrigley Field was supposed to be the first MBL park with lights but gave them up for the war effort in 1941. They ended up the last park with lights.

Let the light shine on them this year!

[Evil_Dewers]

18. Wrigley has a trough

No separate urinals. Just a trough with recycled running water and piss for a dozen guys to piss in.

[Seneca]

46. what's wrong with that?

It's urination, fer cryin' out loud! :eyes: Troughs are common in unpretentious ballparks and good taverns. :-)

[Evil_Dewers]

53. It is gross.

I don't want to look at the foaming piss from eight drunken Cubs fans floating by.

[HuckleB]

60. Then don't look.

.

[VermontDem2004]

64. lmao I knew I liked you

:toast:

[Evil_Dewers]

68. I won't look from now on...

I'll just piss on the nearest Cubs fan and improve his/her own smell.

[HuckleB]

50. So does ASU stadium in Tempe, Arizona.

And it was just "modernized" in the '80s. So what? It's a place to piss. You need something more?

[Rich Hunt]

25. yep

...and they're on the South side of town, where we don't fly all over the country, waving our charge cards around.

And you people lie about us and trash us, and no one holds you accountable for it. Doesn't stop you from exploiting us to score a point.

Chicago's working-class reputation comes from OUR side of town.

[HuckleB]

51. Please.

Could you possibly whine any more? Oh, no! The Cubs won a playoff series. It's time for WSox fans to act like sore losers?

Luckily, most Sox fans aren't playing your tune.

[Rich Hunt]

63. not true

We're not sore losers and whiners. I couldn't care less what the Cubs do.

We're pissed because you're going to use winning as a cover for your continuing lies about us and your lies about your own "fanbase". It has nothing to do with what goes on ON the field.

And you are wrong about the Sox fans - completely wrong. You're not well-liked down here. If you don't know why, you don't know your Chicago history.

[HuckleB]

69. In other words,

you have to put words in my mouth, since you can't respond to my actual post.

You are a whiner. Most Sox fans are not. And, sorry pal, but I've got a few dozen family members and a few dozen more family friends on the southside. They aren't playing your tune, and they're not reporting that your tune is anything but a minority one.

I'll ignore your goofy outbursts from now on. It's too bad you can't let people have some fun without jumping in and crying about it.

[Rich Hunt]

73. I'm not whining

I'm reporting the facts, which are distorted at our expense.

[VermontDem2004]

76. Cubs fans smelling bad is a fact?

edit: that isn't you, that is Evil_Drewers.

[Evil_Dewers]

85. Denver Broncos, Football Cardinals and Cubs is a strange mix

I guess you were a Tampa Bay Bucs fan and an Angels fan last year.

Who the fuck is Evil_Drewers?

I terrorized free republic for a time and bragged about it here, and some freeper came over here, read about it and pretended he was me by creating a similar id. Is that what you are referring to?

[VermontDem2004]

90. I am not a Cubs fan

I am actually Diamondbacks fan. I am a Broncos fan because I grew up in Colorado and the Broncos were the first football team I ever heard of so I liked them, but since I lived in Arizona the Cardinals grew on me. I hate the Bucanneers but I rooted for the Angels in the World Series because I don't like the Giants. :evilgrin:

I was in the middle of writing my post so I didn't have access to your name and I didn't want to click back because if I did I would have to re-write my whole post so I just had to take a guess. I am just joining the debate but it is getting rediculous here. It is strange you call me a fair weather fan for having a Cardinals logo because they only one 1 playoff game since 1947.

edit: But since I don't like the Yankees or the Marlins, I like the Cubs more then the Red Sox so I am rooting for them to win the World Series. But I won't lose sleep or ponder or whatever if the Cubs get knocked out of the playoffs.

[HuckleB]

88. So you say, but the content of your posts say otherwise.

Including the one I'm responding to now.

[Rich Hunt]

91. whatever

This is all I have to say before I put you on ignore. We're not discussing my purported emotional state - we're discussing the myths about the Cubs. I'm not going to let those myths go unchallenged as long as Cub fans use them against us.

You can read what I have to say with fairness, or you can imagine that I'm bitter because it makes you feel better. Down here, that's what we call the "Kubbie Kool-Aid".

Stick to the topic. You're acting like a bully - trying to shut me up by accusing me of bitterness. It's not proveable and it's not relevant.

[HuckleB]

93. You are discussing your myths about the Cubs.

There is no "we." You do not speak for White Sox fans, not by a longshot.

Put me on ignore? Thanks. I'm free at last!

[Rich Hunt]

95. I don't?

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com

My views are pretty common in my experience.

[HuckleB]

99. Most Sox fans don't spend time there, pal.

Don't fool yourself.

[Rich Hunt]

102. I live on the south side, and have for most of my life

I think we should drop this, because you're asserting something that you can't prove.

[HuckleB]

105. Hmm.

And you can prove your assertions about how snobbish Cubs fans are? Please. By the way, I can tell you to take a look at how many people actually sign on to Sox Internet boards, for one. Are you really going to tell me that the "vocal" minority that hangs out on such boards is representative of the "typical" southsider?

As I've already stated, I know many southsiders more than very well, and they don't resemble you or those on that Sox board. And they don't appear to be surrounded by people who resemble you either. I do find that very interesting.

Good day.

[Rich Hunt]

108. indeed

How many times do I have to read about the "trashy" Sox fans?

Like I said - I went to college on the north side and I lived there. I witnessed first-hand the elitist, ignorant attitudes toward the south side. Many people won't even venture south of Jackson.

I don't know how many times I've heard from Cub fans about the "trash" that go to the Cell - they make it sound like it's the Jerry Springer show, and that the neighborhood is a slum. It's a total lie and I won't stand for it.

[HuckleB]

110. In other words --

You are among the minority of Sox fans who find it absolutely necessary to care about and bash back at the minority of nasty Cubs fans. OK. Everything is clear now. Thanks.

Bye.

[greatauntoftriplets]

94. If you "could care less what the Cubs do"

then why are you constantly on pro-Cubs threads? Don't read 'em, if you don't like them.

[Rich Hunt]

100. sigh

...because lies are very often told at our expense.

You north siders just don't GET it and you don't listen to us.

When I said I didn't care, I meant I didn't care about how they fare as a team. What I do care about is the snobbery directed at us and the misrepresentation of our fan base. I care passionately about that.

And I'm not "constantly on pro-Cubs threads". I've ignored the ones celebrating the Cubs. I'm only on SOME threads because I won't allow myths to go unchallenged.

Finally, this isn't a "pro-Cubs" thread - if it did, it would say "yaaay Cubs".

[ProfessorGAC]

12. I'm A Cub Fan, and I Work Hard!

So, exactly what was the point of you're rambling paragraph (try using the enter key a bit), other than to insult people you obviously know little about.

Loyalty? There were 10,000 Cubs fans in Atlanta because these "loyal" fans didn't even sell out a playoff game. Think that's going to happen in Wrigley or Fenway? Didn't think so!

And, the vast majority of fans for EVERY sports team are "bread-and-butter salt-of-the-earth people that make the country great".

So, save your insults for someone dumb enough to be offended.

Buffoon!
The Professor

[Chamfer]

17. Just because Chicago has a large population base

has no correlation with loyalty. Just more of em. Same way in the populous Northeastern corridor. These are just basically two sucky teams, and I get sick of their fans blathering on about how there is somehow nobility in getting your ass kicked year after year while playing in antiquated triple-A-sized ballparks that lack modern amenities.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. You Don't Actively Apply Logic To Many Things, Do You?

Numbers = Loyalty. What the heck are you talking about?

Nevermind. I'm done with you.
The Professor

[Chamfer]

27. Let me educate you.

Chicago has a huge population base, being the nation's third largest city. Just for the sake of argument, let's assume Chicago is four times as large as another city. OK. If 30% of Chicago's population are Cub fans, in order to achieve the same number of fans for its team, it would be impossible for that other city. Understand now?

Good lord, the concepts you have to explain! LOL.

[VermontDem2004]

30. Ok

what makes the Minnesota, Atlanta, and St. Louis fans more loyal then Cubs fans? Yes those cities aren't as large as Chicago but they are huge cities and it doesn't take half of those cities to fill their stadium.

[XNASA]

34. Assume this.

We have two MLB teams. So your estimates are off by at least 50%.

Still doesn't explain the fact the Wrigley was filled to over 95% of it's capacity over the course of the entire year, while some teams stuggled to fill the stands.

Also doesn't explain why nearly half the people in the seats in Atlanta for the Cubs/Braves Series were rooting for the Cubs. That sounds pretty loyal to me.

[Chamfer]

115. Wrigley holds what? 35,000. So they sell out 95%

of the time. BFD.

[HuckleB]

116. 39,000 capacity.

The Cubs averaged 37,000 a game in 2003. They averaged 34,500 a game in 2002. And they averaged 35,200 a game in 2001.

[Rich Hunt]

31. bullshit

Many of your fans are tourists, bandwagoners, and people who like to "hang out". North side singles who like to "hang out" have admitted this. North siders who hate baseball and hate your fans behavior admitted this.

If you're so loyal, then why was your attendance so poor during the most dismal seasons in the sixties and seventies?

Or didn't you even know that?

Also, for some of us "blue-collar" families, going to a game is a BIG DEAL and a great expense. Doesn't make us any less loyal because we go less.

[Chamfer]

37. That's true....Wasn't long ago Cubs couldn't sell out their little park

34,000 seats...huge megalopolis....and they couldn't even fill their freaking little park. Yeah. Some loyalty.

[Rich Hunt]

41. thank god someone is telling the truth AT LAST

Because since 1995 and only since 1995 have the Cubs beaten us in attendance.

We've been having some problems...many of them economic and such, but we don't deserve to be told by smug, snobbish north siders that we're bad, bad BAD disloyal fans with a bad attitude because we can't fill a ballpark, especially a ballpark with crappy upper deck seats.

Especially since that other ballpark is full because of marketing, atmosphere and the greater economic fortunes on the north side.

I'm happy for you Cub fans but PLEASE. Come down to earth and cut the crap. Then maybe we can bury the hatchet.

[greatauntoftriplets]

97. You're the one waving the hatchet, dymaxia.

Please come down to earth and cut the crap. Had the White Sox been contenders this year, I would have rooted for them. If you are a representative White Sox fan, however, you may just have changed my mind for ad infinitum.

[Rich Hunt]

104. right.

No lies about the south side. No Cub fans chanting "South Side Sucks" after clinching the division.

No class snobbery.

No claims that our fans are all like the guy who attacked Gamboa, and that we're horrible fans because we don't fill the ballpark.

No Cub fans behaving badly and never being held accountable for it.

No media neglect of not only the Sox, but the south side in general.

No neglect of the south side, period.

Right.


Kubbie Kool-Aid.

What a liberal, open-minded board this is.

[HuckleB]

59. Baseball attendence --

wasn't all that great during the '60s and '70s anywhere. Look at the averages for the entire MLB. You're offering an often-repeated, largely out-of-context theory.

[Rich Hunt]

65. yep

...and yours was lower than average.

In 1981, half as much.

[VermontDem2004]

71. kind of like this year huh

The White Sox were 23rd in attendance this year with an average of 23,944 people comming to the games which was only 54% of the seats being filled, almost half of the seats were empty the entire season.

[Rich Hunt]

75. we're working on it

...and we're tired of being beaten up about our attendance.

A lot of it is simply based on a misrepresentation of the baseball fanbase in Chicago. Our attendance was up 17% this year.

How did people get to moralizing about attendance by fans? It's incredibly petty and incredibly illiberal.

I explained the attendance situation in my posts above. If you don't want to be open-minded enough to read it, that is your problem.

[HuckleB]

72. One year is meaningless.

It has ebbed and flowed throughout baseball history. God forbid that the Cubs had some soft years of attendance. Somehow that makes the fun of this year's playoffs meaningless. Everyone go back home. Pretend that the playoffs are not happening! You should not be having fun!

[Rich Hunt]

79. Go ahead and have fun

...but don't take it out on us. Don't brag about your huge fan base when it hasn't always been that way.

I'm just asking you guys to be consistent and honest about attendance fluctuations at Wrigley.

[VermontDem2004]

82. The last 3 years

Cubs has been ahead of White Sox in attendance. ESPN doesn't show me beyond that. But it wasn't Cubs fans brining up attendance, it was Chamfer originally talking about it.

[Rich Hunt]

84. no duh

...but it doesn't mean that some fans are better than others. Nor does it even mean that there are more devoted fans.

Especially with a park like Wrigley.

It's not something to moralize about, and the whole issue is extremely petty.

[VermontDem2004]

87. Don't tell that to me

Tell that to Chamfer, talking about how Cubs fans are bad because Chicago has a large population base and happen to sell out a 38,000 ballpark but doesn't mention that only 54% of the seats at Comiskey(is that how it's spelled) Park are being filled.

[HuckleB]

86. Who's bragging?

Did someone point out something in response to your posts? Oh, so that means every Cubs fan is bragging and rubbing it in the face of Sox fans? Sorry, but you are way to thin-skinned, and you continue to take attendance figures out of context with baseball averages and with what was going on in the world and in Chicago in the '60s and '70s. And you forget how many people who grew up in Chicago live elsewhere. Of course they are "tourists" when they hit town for a game or two. Heck, I am always a "tourist," no matter what town I watch an MLB game in. So what?

Later...

[VermontDem2004]

21. Atlanta has a large population base

What makes them loyal but not Cubs fan? But I like fans who stick with their team even after countless loosing seasons rather then the fans who like whoever wins the World Series, somehow all the Angels and Cowboys fans in my area have disappeared. :shrug:

[Rich Hunt]

29. the nerve

If you're such a champion of the common man, then how come you think that having the $$$ to fly to Atlanta makes you a "loyal" fan?

[VermontDem2004]

13. You basically prove their point

Yes these teams had loosing teams for decades but these fans still like and root for their team unlike most Yankee fans who DON'T live in New York. I think that makes a fan loyal, of course Braves fans are loyal, they've been to the playoffs 12 straight years(I think). How are you so sure that Cubs or Red Sox fans aren't hardworking and what makes St. Louis fans hardworking? I think there are fans of all TEAMS that are polite, hardworking, loyal, assholes, bandwagon jumpers, etc.

[Rich Hunt]

33. absolutely

There are Cub fans who are decent, respectable and who love the game.

They don't deserve this type of arrogance on their behalf.

There are clowns and princes in every crowd.

[bif]

26. I've been to both ballparks

And they're the two finest facilities still in use. Period. Far more character and history than these new "retro" ballparks.

[VermontDem2004]

28. I like old ballparks

with real grass, I don't like Turf and I don't like Domes. It's sad that the Cardinals are going to leave 46 year old Sun Devil Stadium for some new themepark. I seen my first ever football game from that Stadium and it was a blast, yes the stadium is in poor condition but at least it doesn't have a retractable roof.

[Evil_Dewers]

44. Wrigley Polish Sausages Have Been Cooked In The Same Grease

since 1914.

[Leftist78]

111. Ok I've heard enough of this shit from you

FUCK THE WHITE SOX!!!!!

There I've said it. Now I guess I'm just another arrogant Cubs fan, well that's fine by me, but at least you don't see me bitching every time my team doesn't make the playoffs about the team from across town that does make it.

I'm not from Chicago, but my grandparents were Northsiders, and I've been a fan of the Cubbies all my life. I'd always heard from my Grandpa about you Southsiders, but I never really believed it until now. Good God you people are some sore losers. I hope it's not all the ChiSox fans, but you sir are a whiner.

[HuckleB]

112. It's a small minority.

Don't let them fool you.

[Leftist78]

114. I'm sure it is

I got a little carried away there. I just hate whiners.

As if it's the Cubs fault that W-Sox attendance is low and every Cubs fan walks around bad mouthing Sox fans. I couldn't care less about them.

It's fine to have a cross-town rivalry, but he's going WAY beyond that. I want to apologize to any other ChiSox fans I may have offended in the last post. I shouldn't paint all of you with that brush.

[Chamfer]

32. Character my ass

I'll take a place with comfortable seating, modern facilities, and good parking.

[VermontDem2004]

35. ah yes

You must be pampered if you want to see a ballgame. Sun Devil Stadium, a place you won't like, has been around in this area for 46 years, it has natural grass, and the entire seating are bleachers, (instead of the luxury box and club seats) but now the Arizona Cardinals and the Fiesta Bowl(which has been at Sun Devil Stadium for over 30 years) are moving to some new theme park with a retractable roof in Glendale. Old Stadiums do have character and don't understand why you take it out on the fans?

[bif]

38. I won't

I gave up on going to baseball games after they built Commercial (Comerica) Park here in Detroit. I went to one game and it was horrible. A plastic, theme park. The horror! The horror! (The whore!)

[XNASA]

39. Good parking, huh?

What's the matter?

Taking public transportation to the game isn't good enough for ya? Who's the elitist now?

[Chamfer]

43. Sorry, but I'm way too busy

to take public transporation, wait in line, have my kids get groped, and get my pocket picked. We prefer to drive to the game, find a place to park, walk into a state-of-the-art facility, sit in a comfortable seat, go to a restroom that doesn't resemble a gas station bathroom, root for our team, get in the car and drive home..all before 10:30.

[VermontDem2004]

47. That has to be the most elitest thing I ever heard

I take public transportation almost everyday of my life and never got my pocket picked, I was never groped as a younger kid, and my younger brother has never been groped. You ever worry about being car-jacked? Sun Devil Stadium cost 1 Million to build, that isn't alot for the taxpayers to cover, the new stadium being built in Glendale costs a whooping $345 million shifting the burden on the taxpayers and likely raising taxes.

[HuckleB]

55. So...

The attendance isn't all that good for your favorite team?

[HuckleB]

49. Enjoy it, then, if you can.

You'll paying for a new one every 20 years.

[HuckleB]

48. Braves and Cards fans polite?

Hardly. Outside of a few hardcore folks in the Bleachers, your depiction of Cubs fans is way off. I'll grant that the Sox do have a fair-sized contingent of rudies, but even that's a small minority of the team's fans.

As for the Marlins, they've got a fair-weather fan base. It's very difficult to compare such a fan base to the Cubs, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, etc... who sell tix regardless.

[Evil_Dewers]

56. I'm a Cards fan and I'm polite...

at the ballpark. Just not here.

[HuckleB]

58. Good for you.

Most Cards fans are polite. There is a fair contingent of nasties, though. And it's only fair to point that out.

[Evil_Dewers]

66. I disagree.

The nastiest baseball fans are in NY and Boston and Philly and Oakland and Chicago (south side only).

Nicest fans are in St. Louis, Seattle, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Montreal.

[Rich Hunt]

70. bullshit

When Tom Gamboa got hurt, he got thousands of letters from sympathetic Sox fans, and Gamboa made it clear that the behavior was not typical of Sox fans. In that regard, he has way more class than many baseball fans, who are willing to distort the truth to feel superior to their rivals.

The other guy, the one who attacked the ump, had spent the day drinking up at Wrigley.

Meanwhile, I actually lived near Wrigley Field. Long enough to know that those guys are no better than any other fans, and we are no worse.

It's class stereotyping - straight up.

I go to the Cell all of the time and I don't see any of the crap that people say is there.

[Evil_Dewers]

78. But you have to admit that Gamboa incident

tarnished the Chi-Sox and their fans significantly.

Plus, didn't the Wrigley fans get into it with Dodgers players a while back?

[Rich Hunt]

83. but it wasn't at all fair

It's not fair to tarnish people.

I don't judge all Dodgers fans because someone got stabbed. I don't judge all Cub fans by the bad behavior I see. But you don't hear all that much about Cub fan bad behavior.

Why can't people just agree that there are some really bad fans out there and that it can happen anywhere?

[HuckleB]

81. Perhaps.

But Milwaukee and Pittsburgh fans are stuck with the role of the humble hosts, for now. And there are minor league teams with bigger fan bases than the Expos in Montreal. So I'm not sure that means much. And, while I would compare my experiences at Safeco to those in St. Louis, Wrigley, and, yes, Yankee Stadium, as good, clean fun, many Mariners fans turn butt ugly nasty when the Yankees come to town.

[Evil_Dewers]

89. In my experience...

All fans turn nasty when the Yankees come to town.

Mets fans are obnoxious (but only when they are winning).

Philly fans are always shitty.

The Cards - Cubs "rivalry" is good natured, but one-sided (heavily in favor of the Cardinals).

[St. Jarvitude]

120. Not exactly

Cubs lead the all-time series against the Cardinals 1026-994. But yes, the Cards have dominated the Cubs the last few years (except that last series at Wrigley)

[HuckleB]

121. The Cards have also won a few World Series Championships.

.

[Leftist78]

103. All I know

is that when I went to games 1 and 2 of the Braves/Cubs NLDS, the Cubs fans were the nice ones, and some of the Braves fans were polite too, but I'm afraid the stereotypical drunk redneck braves fans showed up too. Sorry to break it to ya, but those "salt-of-the-earth" types as you call them could do with a couple of lessons in manners. Of course I think game 5 was all the lesson they needed :) By the way don't take this as South bashing. I'm a Southerner born and raised, so this isn't some elitist "Yankeeism" or anything like that.

[greatauntoftriplets]

109. Oh Lord, Leftist78,

you are trying to destroy some people's illusions here! But as a polite Cubs fan, I wish to thank you.

[Leftist78]

113. Smashing illusions

is my specialty. :evilgrin:

Go Cubs!

[Redneck Socialist]

118. I wasn't aware that there actually were any Braves fans...

come to Fenway some time. You will see what the fuss is about.

[Redneck Socialist]

119. Sorry, Dupe

[Evil_Dewers]

16. Cubs fans coming out of the woodwork like termites

in a 1890's Victorian house.

Last Cubs World Championship 1908/

Last Cubs World Series Appearance 1945/

The Marlins already have just one less World Championship than the Cubbies.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Your Point?

Do you think real Cub fans don't know this stuff? Thanks for the input Captain Obvious.
The Professor

[Evil_Dewers]

22. I think Cubs fans think Wrigley Field is "pretty"

and they really don't give a damn about winning anything.

Keep your "loveable loser" schtick. It is all you have.

[VermontDem2004]

23. It's funny how

so many people critize the Cubs fans for sticking with their team after countless losing seasons and no world championship titles. Those are the fans I like, not the ones who jump from bandwagon to bandwagon Mr. I live in St. Louis.

[Rich Hunt]

36. yeah

Those old-time Cub fans are great - I'm happy for them. They deserve everything they get.

But the attendance numbers from the past belie the notion that there were SCADS of them. If you weren't there, don't claim the nobility of the "long-suffering".

Cubs attendance was wretched at one time.

[Evil_Dewers]

40. George Will is a Cubs fan.

His friends who were Cardinals fans grew up happy and liberal.

George the Cubs fan grew up bitter and conservative.

I'm not a bandwaggoner. I am a Cardinals fan and I hate the fucking loser Cubs and their idiotic "fans."

Marlins all the way, baby.

Oh, and I hate the Spankmees, too, so I'll be pulling for the BoSox since, while they haven't won a World Championship since 1918, their fans (unlike Cubs fans) actually do know baseball, want to win and their ownership wants to win.

The Cubs are in the playoffs because of dumb luck and baseball economics. Trading for one-third of the Pirates starting lineup and then playing the hapless Pirates many times down the stretch is the only reason why the Cubs are where they are.

Mark Prior is a fucking idiot, too. He said he wanted the Astros to sweep the Cardinals the last week of the season. He didn't want or need help from the Cardinals. But if the Cardinals had not won two of three from the Astros, the Astros would be in the playoffs--not the Cubs.

[Seneca]

45. Hillary Clinton is a Cubs fan

So are John Cusack, Bill Murray, and countless other non-bitter, non-conservative people, if you must mine celebrities to make a point. Sounds like all the bitterness is in your post, my friend.

[Evil_Dewers]

52. Hillary became a Yankees fan.

Remember?

Don' forget that the multi-talented ;) Jim Belushi is a Cubs fan.

He made a movie "Taking Care of Business" in which he broke out of prison to see Mark Grace hit a home run in the World Series. Did Mark Grace hit a home run for the Arizona Diamondbacks when they beat the Yankees in the World Series?

And Disney made a "fun for the family" tale about Henry Rowengartner, a 12 year old who breaks his arm and throws 100 mph and pitches the Cubs into the World Series.

Look, but I've heard this same crap from Cubbies fans in 1984, 1989, 1998 and now. You could empty a shotgun in the stands a couple of years ago in September and not hit anyone. Why? Because the Cubs were in last place (as usual). Even Corky Sosa wasn't a draw. The Cubs should have been made to forfeit all games in which Sammy used a corked bat, which would put them in last place.

Some Cubs fans are diehards, but most are clueless and don't care about winning. I remember a poll in the Sun-Times asking Cubs fans if they'd rather win a World Series or be forced to have a new stadium to replace Wrigley. An overwhelming majority chose to keep Wrigley.

Losers.

[VermontDem2004]

57. Wow

Losers.

I can't believe all the petty stuff were arguing about and were all democrats, in an essence were all on the same team.

[Seneca]

61. The Marlins - owned by GOP huckster

Same guy who owns the Hollywood (pro-censorship) video chain. He bought the World Series for his team a la Steinbrenner. Not interested in putting out a consistent winner, he dismantled the team the following year and they sank back to last place.

The Cubs are owned by the Tribune Company, who owns the anti-Schwarzenegger LA Times, the Washington Post, and irony of ironies, the Miami Herald!

The Chicago Cubs - you can't escape them.

(Hillary was kissing her constituents' butts, but she still bleeds true Cubbie Blue)

[Rich Hunt]

67. obviously...

you don't read the editorials in the Trib.

And it's not very noble to boast of your corporate owners' success - are you guys selling your souls?

[Evil_Dewers]

74. The Marlins are no longer owned by Wayne Huezinga (sp) n/t

The former Marlins owner dismantled the team, meanwhile Greg Maddox nixed what would have been a record contract from the Cubs because "he wanted to win." Maddux knew the Cubs would never win.

Nobody goes to the Cubs to win. They just want a paycheck. Sammy just wants to hit home runs. He'll even use a corked bat to hit them.

[pmbryant]

80. Story about Maddux is inaccurate

My recollection is that Maddux wanted to stay with the Cubs, but the Cubs did not offer him anything close to what he deserved, after having won his first Cy Young award in 1992.

Maddux received a huge offer from the Yankees and nixed that, choosing to sign with the Braves instead for somewhat less.

The Cubs' inept management had decided that they didn't need Maddux and didn't make a serious effort to re-sign him.

--Peter

[Evil_Dewers]

92. Your recollection is incorrect.

I think it was after the '91 season, the Cubs offered Maddux $25 mil for 5 years. At the time, this would have been a record amount for a pitcher. Maddox took much less money as a free agent to sign with the Braves.

[pmbryant]

96. Perhaps

I remember quite well that the Cubs did not make a serious offer, treated him with disrespect, and pretty much ran Maddux out of town. Guess I'm going to have to do some research to back this up, though.

EDIT: My memory may be somewhat incorrect: I found this from December 1992 (link): "Maddux, who turned down a $28.5 million contract extension in mid–season with the Cubs, signs for $28 million, $6 million less than the Yankees offered." Unfortuantely, it doesn't say the details (length) of the Cubs' offer versus the Braves' offer. But my recollection is obviously not totally correct.

EDIT AGAIN: The Cubs and Braves offers sound pretty much identical. I think there is a backstory over why Maddux turned down the mid-season offer from the Cubs, and why the Cubs never re-joined the fight to sign him, but I can't find a reference to it right now.

--Peter

[Scurrilous]

123. The Marlins are no longer owned by Wayne (Blockbuster) Huizenga.

He sold the team to John Henry. Henry (who now is part owner of the Red Sox) later sold the team to Jeffrey Loria (who used to own the Montral Expos).

[St. Jarvitude]

122. I'm gonna go out on a limb...

...and guess that, about, oh, say, fifty years ago, you tried to get into Wrigley with your pet goat and you're still a bit bitter ;)

Anyway, it really saddens me to see a person root AGAINST a specific team. 95% of the fans I know, from all sports, are good-natured folks who care only about their team winning, and not a specific losing all the time (unless it affects playoff seeding or something similar). All of the Cub fans I know feel the same way - the past years when the Cardinals and Astros have made the playoffs, they've treated those playoff series just like any other (though I understand there are, unfortunately, Cub fans who don't feel this way). If the Astros or Cards had won the NL Central this year, I would've felt "Good for them." What I hope for is the return of this respect from fans of other teams, which I have for the most part seen. It makes me sigh in frustration to see ANYONE act any other way, Cub players not excluded.

Speaking of player-to-player respect, the Cardinals are no angels either:
"I hope Mark Prior takes a line drive to the forehead and we never see him again." -- Steve Kline

It may just be me, but this is seems to be just a little bit worse than saying "I hope they lose."

That's all. Reading what I just wrote is confusing me, so don't feel bad if you don't get it. I'll be happy to clarify anything needing clarification. Just please, think before you type :)

[ProfessorGAC]

24. No. I Have A Team in the NLCS

So, it's not all i have. You're logic is really lacking. You're facts are wrong.

You are dismissed!
The Professor

[Evil_Dewers]

42. Perfessor (sic)

The Cardinals have been in the NLCS in two of the last three years.

Yet the nerdy media types (the George Wills of the world) weren't fawning all over them like the second coming.

There's nothing more pathetic than the current media swooning for the Cubs except for maybe the 1986 love-in for the New Yawk Mets.

Muck the Fets.

[HuckleB]

54. It happens.

Sideline fans who get into teams for a few years and then back off when life presents other options often come out when things improve. It sure happened with the Packers in the Favre era. It's happening with the Cubs and RSox now. So what? It's the playoffs. That's when everything gets serious coverage. It's only natural.

[Evil_Dewers]

62. The national media is biased towards

the Cubs, the Yankees, the Dodgers, the Mets and the Red Sox.

It is not natural.

Happily, we don't have to be exposed to the bias towards the Cubs very often.

Given a choice, Cubs fans would chose to preserve Wrigley instead of having a World Championship.

The el train to Wrigley always smells like urine. Or maybe it is the fans.

[HuckleB]

77. Perhaps.

I'd say it's biased toward the stories it thinks will sell papers and get ratings. Though, as someone who lives on the west coast, I know well how much the national media ignores athletics east of the Mississippi.

[VermontDem2004]

98. I don't know

I live in the West Coast and I keep hearing about Hokies, Hurricanes, Seminoes, Buckeyes, etc.

[VermontDem2004]

101. WOOHOO!!!!

My thread gets over 100 replies, this has only happened to me 3 times since I have been at DU.

[HuckleB]

106. Congratulations!

So, what's the word on the state of the Suns this year?

[VermontDem2004]

107. I guess I will have to wait and see

We have great young players, I think the Suns will go back to the playoffs this year. Most likely a 5th or 6th seed, I will of course root for a higher seed.