HELP -- opinions needed regarding outstanding arrest warrant.

[City Lights]

I found out this morning that my sister's best friend's husband has an outstanding arrest warrant. He is accused of home repair fraud to the tune of $78,000. The homeowner claims he paid the accused $78,000, but no work was ever done, nor were any materials delivered to his home. He was arrested in the Spring of 2003, and shortly thereafter announced, out of the blue, that they were moving to another state. They relocated about 1-1/2 years ago.

This person did some work for me. While the work was eventually completed, it was not completed in the time frame agreed to when the down payment was made.

I know where he lives and I'm trying to decide whether to turn him in. I am not familiar with extradition laws and don't know what impact they may have in this situation.

They are being invited to family gathering scheduled this summer, and while I doubt he'll show, I may run into his wife.

Should I turn him in, should I keep quiet, or should I encourage my sister to confront her friend? My sister knew there had been a lawsuit pending, but assumed it had been resolved prior to the relocation. Her friend hasn't mentioned it since shortly after it happened.

[AverageJoe]

1. I don't know the law

But I don't think I could be a snitch.

That said, here's my confession: I don't like cops or prosecutors. I'm not a criminal, but I just don't like cops or prosecutors. I couldn't be a snitch.

[fit4life]

4. Never forget.

Remember that you don't like cops or prosecutors when your car is stolen, your house is broken into, or someone beats the snot out of you. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite and call people you don't like for help! :)

[AverageJoe]

13. I'm just being honest

I didn't call them names, just told the truth to provide context for my post.

Here's why I don't like them:

My dealings with cops mostly have involved being stopped, hassled and rudely questioned while taking walks at night back when I was in college and grad school. Just walks, nothing sinister. This happened to me a number of times.

I can't help thinking that for many prosecutors, putting people in jail is a career enhancer, rather than a search for justice.

Here's what I propose: If a cop bothers or arrests an innocent person, then the cop should be immediately subject to whatever penatly he/she tried to pin on the innocent person. Ditto for prosecutors. If they just bother actual criminals, then they should have nothing to worry about.

I'm not saying there aren't good people in these jobs, but I think their accountabitity should be through the roof, and it is not.

[fit4life]

20. I have a suggestion for you.

While I can understand your ambivalence, I think I can help you appreciate them for the work they do.

First off, as far as your comments about prosecutors: What makes you think sending a criminal to jail isn't justice? Is letting a criminal go justice for the victim of the criminal? I really don't understand that one.

As far as police officers go, I'm willing to bet your local department has a ride along program for civilians. Take a day or night and spend it riding with a cop and see what they deal with on a daily basis. I'll bet it will significantly alter your perception of them.

***EDIT***

With my luck you'll do the ride along and get paired up with a royal asshole. lol

[AverageJoe]

28. I have no problem with sending criminals to jail

But I fear that many innocent people are prosecuted by careerists in that profession. Surely you don't think that everyone who is charged with a crime, prosecuted and sent to jail is guilty? When the innocent go to jail (think, for example, Rubin Carter) because a prosecutor makes a compelling, albeit incorrect, case, the prosecutor should be in jeopardy of identical punnishment.

I've known a number of cops. In fact, I used to be a newspaper reporter and did a few ride alongs. I got along fine with them in that context because I held a modicum of power.

I'm not suggesting that every cop or prosecutor is a bad apple, just that they have too much unchecked power and that they need to be seriously held in check.

And, by the way, my house was broken into once and the police actually knew who did it and didn't do a damned thing about it. No kidding.

[fit4life]

32. Innocent people...

Prosecutors represent the state, so they're basically free from the responsibility of being punished for wrongful convictions. Then again, they can only do what they can with what they're given, and as long as they pursue a conviction within the boundaries of the law it's up to the judge & jury to decide the guilt of a person. Holding a prosecutor solely responsible for a wrongful conviction would leave out the judge, jury, and defense attorney, who should also be accountable in some way.

With video cameras, camera phones, and other recording devices all over the country, I don't think police have that feeling of unchecked power any more. Video evidence is showing up everywhere.

Even if the police knew who did it, if they didn't have hard evidence or probably cause to find the evidence, there isn't much they can do. I get the distinct impression there's a lot more to that story than you're telling.

[AverageJoe]

38. Jesus, I don't want to get into a pissing contest

Just voicing an obviously unpopular, though honest, opinion

Here's the whole story of my house being burgled:

About ten years ago I was in graduate school. I shared a house with two roommates in a not-so-well-to-do neighborhood. Some kids who lived down the street opened an unlocked window while we were away, climbed in and stole a few pieces of jewelry. They later bragged about it to other kids who came and told us about it. We called the police and a young officer came to talk to us. We told him the entire story. He did nothing. Nada. Not a damned thing.

Does this confirm of deny your "distinct impression" of the veracity of my story?

Jesus.

[fit4life]

53. I wasn't aware it was a pissing contest.

I thought we were discussing our opinions on law enforcement and the justice system.

I have no way of confirming or rebutting what you said happened, so I really can't say either way if the officer did anything or not. I just have what you said happened.

If you think it's a pissing contest though, I'll just drop it. I didn't want to start an argument.

[AverageJoe]

43. By the way, I UNDERSTAND that prosecutors are free of being

punished for wrongful convictions. That's my point.

[Susang]

24. What about accountability in home contracting?

Should this man get away with ripping that family off for $78,000? After all, this man moved to another state to avoid prosecution for this, does it sound like he was acting like a responsible, licensed contractor?

Accountability should be applied to both these career choices, don't you think? Why should the police be held accountable for their actions but not this man? Why is holding him accountable for his actions a bad thing?

[AverageJoe]

29. Sure, hold him accountable

if he's guilty. I'm just saying that I couldn't be a snitch.

[Bunny]

30. If you were the sole witness to a murder, could you be a snitch then? n/t

[AverageJoe]

34. Ah, using the nuclear option, are we?

Well, yes, if I saw a murder I would certainly call the police.

Likewise, if I saw a little old lady getting her purse snatched, I'd help her and also call the cops.

In the case under discussion here, though, it isn't even clear that the guy did anything. He didn't kill anybody, that's for sure.

Please understand: I don't have a problem with apprehending the guilty. I just think cops and prosecutors need to be honest and kept in check. And I don't think they always are. For this reason, I don't like or trust them. Just my two cents.

I don't care if you want to turn folks in willy-nilly, though. :-)

[Bunny]

39. A nuclear option seemed necessary, in order to determine your level

of concern that justice be served. I happen to think it should be served for practically ALL crimes. Certainly the possible stealing of $78K. And even though it's not clear that the guy did anything, he can present his case in court. That should clear things up and everyone can get on with their lives.

[AverageJoe]

45. Fine, you turn him in

Track him down. Do whatever you think is right. I'm just telling you what's right for me.

[Bunny]

47. And I hope you are never ever victimized. n/t

[AverageJoe]

55. Me too!

And listen: I have been victimized by COPS! I'm not saying I was beaten or falsely imprisoned, but I have been singeled out and unjustly hassled more than once.

By the way, what's your take on the cops who sprayed pepper spray on the anti-war protesters? On old women and kids? This happened and it was reported on the news and photographs appeared here on DU.

Say what you will, but there are BAD cops out there.

Get a clue.

[Bunny]

59. Get your own fucking clue.

I know there are bad cops out there, Jesus Christ I'm not stupid. What the fuck does that have to do with the OP?

[AverageJoe]

65. with all due respect

Bite me, Bunny.

Indeed, the conversation I'm having with some of you has very little to do with the original post. I'm in the position of defending my stance and am doing so.

Turn in anybody you like. Peace be with you. Go with God.

[jeanarrett]

85. Really. . . she's seems a little testy for a Tuesday.

[AverageJoe]

96. Hi jeanarret

Welcome to DU! :hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:

[Bunny]

99. You don't know testy, honey.

You seem a little ignorant for a newbie, but it could just be me. Really.

[jeanarrett]

123. Well, thanks for the welcome, Joe.

And Bunny, how do I seem "ignorant" from that innocuous little post about you being testy? You seem mighty testy to me today and I just happened to agree with Joe on some of these things. . .

[Bunny]

129. Well, you don't know me at all. And because of that, you seem

pretty ignorant. For a Tuesday.

Your post was hardly "innocuous" and "innocent", but then, you already knew that.

And I'm happy for you that you agree with Joe. That doesn't excuse your comment about me.

[AverageJoe]

131. Sure thing, jeanarrett

Things aren't always this rocky. Best thing is to not hold a grudge.

Hope to see you around the Board! :-)

[Bunny]

100. And you may, in turn, bite me.

You began this by telling me to get a clue. Bad move. You got it shoved back at you, and now I have to bite YOU? Don't think so pal.

[AverageJoe]

101. Self Deleted

[AverageJoe]

102. Get over it, Bunny

I deleted my last post because I unfairly impugned another poster. My bad.

This is beyond ridiculous. Get a life, for God's sake.

[Bunny]

106. No, you get over it.

Now lets' be sure that you respond to this post by making an equally childish remark back.

Because you see, you can dish out the advice, but you cannot follow it. You always have to get the last word, huh? You could heed your own advice and walk away, but you won't, will you?

It is indeed beyond ridiculous, but I'm certain this isn't the end.

:boring:

[AverageJoe]

107. I am over it

You called me out, and it was more than an hour after the post that got your dander up.

I'll say the same thing to you I said to another poster: I suspect we would agree on many things, though clearly not on this one.

It's fine with me that you like cops and prosecutors. It's fine with me that you feel justified in turning in suspects. I don't hold that against you in any way. I simply do not share your feelings in these matters.

I don't want to be enemies or even in a snit.

Please feel free to reply to this post and get the last word yourself.

[Bunny]

108. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I knew it!

[Maddy McCall]

116. Your username should be less-than-Average Joe, or perhaps...

I-don't-give-a-fuck Joe.

I hope you never have to rely on the guys in blue after someone in your family is victimized. Karma's a bitch.

[AverageJoe]

118. Maddy, peace

I do not hold any hostility toward you. Why the slam on me?

[Maddy McCall]

122. I am not slamming YOU, but your opinion that you don't want to...

"get involved." I was a battered wife. Had it not been for concerned citizens helping me out, and reporting the abuse, I might have been dead 13 years ago.

Ever since, I am a "snitch" when need be. If I see small toddlers locked in a car while mom shops at Walmart, I call. If I am driving down the road and the SUV in front of me is taking out the ditch, I call. If I see a "lover's spat" that looks like it might turn physical, I call.

You are indirectly calling ME a snitch and accusing the people who saved my life of "snitching."

I do take that personally, and I hope you will reevalutate your position.

Peace back to you. :-)

[AverageJoe]

125. I know that the world is not black and white

and I would NEVER let child abuse or battery continue if I could do anything about it.

But I also wouldn't play the role of informant in the case outlined in the original post. I am amazed at the amount of hostility my position has aroused.

I'm very sorry you were in such an awful situation and I am delighted that concerned citizens helped you out.

Take good care of yourself.

[jswordy]

64. But everybody is...we all get screwed eventually, somehow. n/t

[Susang]

49. According to the OP, he had been arrested for this situation

Then skipped town, missed all court dates and is currently working as a contractor in another town. Certainly innocent until proven guilty, but he has broken the law by fleeing the state and not showing up for his court dates. Therefore, it is clear he has done at least two things wrong, at least in the eyes of the state.

[City Lights]

52. Thank you.

My thoughts exactly. I know what I have to do...I'm just a chickenshit.

[Susang]

74. No, you're not a chickenshit

If you were a chickenshit, you wouldn't even have mentioned it. ;-)

I think it's valid to be conflicted about the situation. It's complicated after all and doing something like this, even if it's the right thing, is never easy. In my opinion, you're being pretty brave by taking this responsibility on.

[jswordy]

67. The OP's mind was made up before the post was made. So this is a waste...

...of our unmitigated need to argue!

Heheheheh...

Like I say, No Surrender, don't use the 911 service when you place the call!

ROFL

[AverageJoe]

71. I think you're right

Well, it was fun. I hope nobody stays angry. :-)

[Susang]

35. What's a snitch exactly?

I mean really, what are you basing your definition on? I'm curious what that word means to you and what the parameters of the definition are. Would you inform on someone who had committed murder? How about a child abuser? What about a corporate embezzler? Would you have blown the whistle on the goings on at Enron? Is theft okay, is that the crime where it is acceptable for you to turn your head and look away?

Contracting scams are some of the oldest schemes in the book. They usually prey on the elderly and those least able to afford losing the money. This man moved out of state to avoid being caught, he obviously had no intention of facing the consequences of his actions. If he had, he would have done what other contractors do, fight it out in court.

You demand personal accountability from police but not from individuals who run businesses, what an odd way of looking at the world. :freak:

[Bunny]

44. Murder and purse snatching? Turn them in!

Steal $78K? Don't be such a snitch!

Apparently, that's his feeling, anyway. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? :eyes:

[AverageJoe]

50. I give up

I'm fine with you folks doing what you do. Sorry that my personal bias offends.

If I had had better experiences with cops and lawyers--I've know a few lawyers, too--then perhaps I'd feel differently.

By the way, are you people who are taking me to task cops, lawyers, or famlily or friends of cops and/or lawyers? Just curious.

[Bunny]

54. None of the above. Just a good, progressive liberal who wants to see

justice served. Who feels for the victim in this case. Who believes that the suspect should have his day in court. Who also believes that crime is crime, whether it's this asshole or Ken Lay, and that crime should be dealt with appropriately.

[AverageJoe]

63. I'm a progressive liberal, too

Who happens to believe that the police and the courts are too often tools of oppression in a racist, agist, sexist, rapidly-devolving-into-fascist state.

I'm not suggesting that turning this guy in is a fascist act, just that my distrust of a corrupt and oppressive system makes me unlikely to become an informant.

What's your take on the cops who arrest protesters at Bush functions? Anti-war rallies? What about the racial profilers? Hell, what about the speed traps?

Should we just give the cops and the courts a pass? That's certainly what Ashcroft and his ilk would like.

It's easy to say "Yeah, I think cops are great because they keep crooked contractors in check," but there is more to their function than this. And it's not all pretty.

[Susang]

75. Look dude, I asked you to explain what you meant

I asked you to clarify your position and define what the word "snitch" meant to you. Instead you once again proclaimed that you would not become an "informant" and railed on about police accountability, Ashcroft and oppression.

So, let's review: I asked you what you think "snitch" means and why you thought it would be wrong to inform or "snitch" on someone who has broken laws by fleeing prosecution and may possibly be perpetrating scams on other unsuspecting homeowners in another state. You declined to answer those points and instead constructed a scenario involving police corruption and oppression that have nothing to do with the specific situation outlined in the original post.

I think we all understand that there are problems with the police in this country, problems that involve all of the issues that you cite in your posts. What I want to know is, how does that pertain to the specific situation that the OP is dealing with?

Or was this thread just an excuse for you to rant against the police and the court system?

[AverageJoe]

76. Look yourself, Susang

Aren't you over this yet?

If you'll take a look at my original response to this thread and read the ensuing conversation, I think you'll find that I posted something, put it into context, and then found myself drawn into a conversation which led further and further away from the original post.

Indeed, I didn't even really expect a reply to my post. Since they started coming in, I was polite enough to answer them.

What's a snitch? A snitch is an informant.

I never said it would be wrong for you or anyone else to engage in such activity. I only said that it's not for me. And I tried to explain my distrust of the system one might "snitch" to.

I truly don't give a damn if you want to make it your life's work to track down alleged criminals and bring them to justice. More power to you. Truly. TRULY. My gosh, wear a cape and a mask if you want to. Go rid the world of bad guys.

I absolutely do not want people to be robbed, beaten, taken to the cleaners, bamboozeled, conned, raped, pillaged, picked on, laughed at, farted near, shat upon.... Well, perhaps you get my drift.

It would be a better world if people did not do these things to one another. It would be a much better world if the police and the courts, likewise, did not engage in such activities. I am NOT saying that all police and all prosecutors are bad. I'm simply saying that they need to be more rigorously regulated and that I tend to hold them in disdain because of their role in furthering a corrupt and oppressive system.

I choose not to be a government informant. And, I repeat: It's fine by me if you do.

Good lord. I have an opinion. Sue me. Hell, report me to the authorities. It's what Bush & Co. would want, after all.

I prefer not to fight with you or with my fellow DUrs. I respect your right to inform. I simply choose not to do likewise, for the reasons I have stated throughout this thread.

[Susang]

78. I think we can all do without the snotty attitude

For someone who says they prefer not to fight with their fellow DUers, you sure as hell come one like gangbusters, don't you?

When you call someone a "snitch" and a " government informant" instead of of using other terms, don't you think it sends the message that you disapprove, as those words are most often used as derogatory? That is why myself and others were questioning you in regards to your views.

I asked you what the word snitch meant TO YOU. Not what the dictionary says it means. Your complaining that the discussion is being taken farther away from the intent of the original post by other people, is unfair, considering that it was your posts that brought up the unrelated points that have been discussed. Since you have obvious issues around this subject and for some reason, seem to think I'm some anti-crime crusader out to spy and inform on her neighbors, then I agree that this dialogue is fruitless.

So, in the spirit of your post to me: Go ahead, sit back, don't be a "snitch". Allow others to swindle and scam the elderly and vulnerable, while you do nothing about it. After all, that's what the Bush junta would like you to do, isn't it? Sit back and let them scam the country while nobody "snitches" on them?

Does that paragraph sound wrong and unfair to you? Do you think that I am judging you wrongly? Well, that's just about how your posts to me have read.

[AverageJoe]

79. Snotty attitude?

Right back atcha.

If I have not made it clear what a snitch is TO ME, then forgive my lack of clarity. I don't know how else to say it, other than the ways in which I already have done, so I won't bother again.

I originally used "snitch," by the way, in a more-or-less tongue in cheek fashion and did not expect the horror it would sow among my fellow DUrs.

Please forgive me for having a world view at odds with your own.

You don't know me and you have no idea what I do or don't do to make this world a better place. I just don't happen to like cops and I do think our system of justice is seriously flawed.

I absolutely respect your position and uphold your right to do whatever you like in this matter. Honest to God.

You might want to look in the mirror and examine your own nose before calling somebody else snotty, though.

[Susang]

80. Still couldn't answer my questions, could you? n/t

[AverageJoe]

82. Susang, are you on drugs? Just asking....

I asked you to clarify your position and define what the word "snitch" meant to you.

SNITCH: An Informant.




Instead you once again proclaimed that you would not become an "informant" and railed on about police accountability, Ashcroft and oppression.

So?


So, let's review: I asked you what you think "snitch" means and why you thought it would be wrong to inform or "snitch" on someone who has broken laws by fleeing prosecution and may possibly be perpetrating scams on other unsuspecting homeowners in another state.


I did not say it was wrong for anyone else to do this, only that I declined to do so myself.



You declined to answer those points and instead constructed a scenario involving police corruption and oppression that have nothing to do with the specific situation outlined in the original post.

I did not decline to answer anything.

I think we all understand that there are problems with the police in this country, problems that involve all of the issues that you cite in your posts. What I want to know is, how does that pertain to the specific situation that the OP is dealing with?



As I have said repeatedly, this conversation long ago veered away from the specific concerns of the original post.



Or was this thread just an excuse for you to rant against the police and the court system?


No. I posted a reply to the original post and explained why I felt the way I did. Then I got pulled into this conversation.

http://www.comicgrail.com

ON EDIT (TWICE--BLUSH): Fixed my html tags

[Susang]

87. Ask all you like

Here are your responses to the OP and some of my posts. You and other DUers can judge from your words and your words alone. Hardly strikes me as "tongue in cheek, perhaps you might want to brush up on your "tongue in cheek" writing skills. Oh, and I don't really see your first post to the OP as an explanation, but hey, that's just me.

Your Original Post:
"I don't know the law But I don't think I could be a snitch.

That said, here's my confession: I don't like cops or prosecutors. I'm not a criminal, but I just don't like cops or prosecutors. I couldn't be a snitch."

Some subsequent posts:

"Sure, hold him accountable if he's guilty. I'm just saying that I couldn't be a snitch."

"I give up
I'm fine with you folks doing what you do. Sorry that my personal bias offends.
If I had had better experiences with cops and lawyers--I've know a few lawyers, too--then perhaps I'd feel differently.
By the way, are you people who are taking me to task cops, lawyers, or famlily or friends of cops and/or lawyers? Just curious."

"I'm a progressive liberal, too Who happens to believe that the police and the courts are too often tools of oppression in a racist, agist, sexist, rapidly-devolving-into-fascist state.

I'm not suggesting that turning this guy in is a fascist act, just that my distrust of a corrupt and oppressive system makes me unlikely to become an informant.

What's your take on the cops who arrest protesters at Bush functions? Anti-war rallies? What about the racial profilers? Hell, what about the speed traps?

Should we just give the cops and the courts a pass? That's certainly what Ashcroft and his ilk would like.

It's easy to say "Yeah, I think cops are great because they keep crooked contractors in check," but there is more to their function than this. And it's not all pretty"

[AverageJoe]

89. Susang, clearly we don't see eye to eye

on this matter. Frankly, I'm sick of this discussion.

My guess is that we would have a meeting of the minds on many, many issues.

I stand by everything I've said today and am truly sorry that you find these things offensive.

Now, run along and inform on somebody. Just kidding. Jeeze, lighten up.

Seriously, peace?

[Susang]

91. Sure

But a word of advice? "Lighten up" can be two of the most condescending words in the English language, particularly when you are posting on the internet. The words I type in this discussion have no bearing on how "light" my mood or thinking is. Humans are complicated and infinitely complex in their capabilities. It's a handy thing to keep in mind.

[AverageJoe]

92. Smug, smug, smug

Condescension seems to be a thing at which you are quite adept.

Humans are complicated and infinitely complex in their capabilities? If you truly believe this, then consider trying to see somebody else's point of view!

I never once, never once, suggested that anybody else should feel the way I do about anything; I just posted an opinion based on personal experience.

Once again I will say this: I suspect you and I would agree on many, many topics other than this one. Let's give this dead horse a rest before we beat out its decayed, bloody guts, eh?

[jeanarrett]

93. Hee, Hee. . . funny.

[Susang]

95. Dull, dull, dull

You want us to stop beating this dead horse and yet you keep responding to my posts after saying that you're oh so tired of this argument that you didn't want to get into into the first place. Right. :eyes:

As for your not suggesting that anyone should feel the way that you do about the OP's situation, if that is truly the case, then why did you feel the urge to post your views on it if not to convince? After all, this was a thread soliciting advice, wasn't it? Why would you bother posting what *you* would do in this situation in a thread asking for advice if you weren't making a suggestion, hmmmm?

[AverageJoe]

98. Okay, I'm sitting here laughing

Truly. Susang, darling, let's stop this now. Please.

Obviously we have a difference of opinion on the matter of the police and the courts and on the way online communication functions. Can we leave it at that?

I don't want to be enemies with you or even leave you with hard feelings.

Be well. Maybe we'll be nicer to each other if we meet again. I hope so.

So, there it is. If you choose to reply to this post, I will let you have the last word. I'm done.

[Susang]

111. Okay Pookie.

But really, your assumptions about other people on this thread have been the true comedy. Thanks for the chuckles, Chuckles! :*

Just because someone supports contacting the police regarding a possible criminal does not mean that they "love the police". Really, you just can't make up shit this funny! :D

[Bunny]

105. You know, susang, there is just no talking to some people,

is there? :shrug:

[Susang]

114. Hey, I started out making an honest attempt

After reading the "Bite me", "Smug, smug, smug" and "it's okay if you love the police" among various comments (made to me and other posters), I felt that perhaps honest discussion was not in the cards.

C'est la Vie. It killed some time at my boring job and for that I'm grateful. ;-)

[Bunny]

128. Grateful for small favors, myself!

Honest discussion was not in the cards, that's for certain.

[jeanarrett]

86. Ditto. My "ditto" was to #63. above. Not the comment above me.

[Susang]

94. I think we all understood you the first time

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay, however long or short it may be! :hi:

[jeanarrett]

121. Gee, thanks for the warm welcome. . .

[Susang]

126. No problem

Are you sure you wouldn't care to clarify your post, just to make sure that nobody on DU might possibly think that you were agreeing with anything that I posted to this thread?

Oh wait, you did that already. :eyes:

[Maddy McCall]

110. If this guy had abused his children, would you turn him in?

Are you the kind of guy who sees a crime and runs the other way so that you won't have to "get involved?"

I gotta say, your response to this thread flabberghasts me. This is not a victimless crime. They guy should face the music.

[AverageJoe]

117. Hi Maddy

No, it's not that simple. If I saw a crime in progress, I would certainly do my best to help. I just don't like the police or careerist prosecutors.

Maybe I'm an anarchist at heart. Dunno. I do have a fundamental distrust of an imperfect system which is designed to kill or imprison people.

I am not slamming anyone who feels otherwise, however.

[Maddy McCall]

124. But citizenship requires more.

If you can help out a victim, you should.

I thank god for the people who helped me when I needed it, although I was probably angry that they turned in my husband at the time they did it.

They saved my life.

[AverageJoe]

130. And good on them, seriously

There are many ways to be a good citizen, I think.

[jswordy]

2. I would not call that outstanding. Now if he had ripped off $1 million...

:wtf:

KEEP YER MOUTH SHUT and let the man alone. The long-term grief you will endure by snitching would be more than your apparent need to be vindictive over your own experience with him is worth.

Have a nice day!

:headbang:

[City Lights]

7. Huh?

I found out about this because I read an article in the paper today about this. It has nothing to do with my "apparent need to be vindictive" over my experience with him. My concern is that he is accused of screwing someone. If he had screwed me, I'd want someone to turn him in if they knew where he was.

:wtf: back at ya.

[jswordy]

51. I'm just saying...

...that you ought to let "someone" turn him in, then. If it was in the paper, someone in the community who knows him will do that, and save you a lot of grief from your family and their friends.

I'm different from many on this blog. I do not believe in sticking my self-righteous nose into others' business because of my superior morality.

Further, the man is ACCUSED of screwing someone, as you say, but I see in your post here and in others that folks have already jumped to "guilty."

I quote: If he had screwed me, I'd want someone to turn him in if they knew where he was.

I believe you probably had already made up your mind before posting, though, so the number to call is the police department's non-emergency number, not 911.

Have a great day!

:)

[Bunny]

56. Ever been victimized? Ripped off? Hope not.

Or maybe I should hope so. Perhaps you will then develop a little empathy. And then YOU can drop the smug, superior, self-righteous act. Unbelievable.

:eyes:

[jswordy]

66. Absolutely! Everyone is, you know, at some point. Sigh.

The best indicator of how well-adjusted a person is, is the way they DEAL WITH getting ripped off by people, cuz it is a commonality that we ALL are ripped off sooner or later, in big weays and in small.

Do they assume the victim mentaliity then? Do they become mistrustful, vindictive? Do they become overly sensitized to it? Or do they learn a lesson, heal and adjust?

And you can drop your attitude, too. I guess if everyone doesn't agree with your take on it, they are wrong...or in your words "smug, superior, self-righteous."

If the shoe fits, Bunny, wear the damn thing.

LOL...this is hilarious to me! LOL...the tao is certainly in effect here!!! ROFL!

[Bunny]

68. Just copying your own words and attitude & throwing them back at you dear.

It's a bitch, isn't it? You wear the goddamn shoe! And please give my your bank account numbers - I could use the extra cash, and you have obviously developed far superior ways to handle being ripped off. LOL this is hilarious to me LOL...the shit is really flowing here. LOL!!!!!!!!!

[candle_bright]

70. LOL!

I'm also thinking he's developed a "far superior way" to handle OTHER people getting ripped off.

But if not, you take the bank account numbers, and I'll take the keys to his car. B-)

[City Lights]

57. I have no way of knowing whether or not he's guilty of ripping someone

off, however, he did flee across state lines, and bailed on negotiating a settlement. Issuing this arrest warrant was, as I interpret it, a last straw option. I realize there are two sides to every story but am troubled that he chose to flee rather than take the opportunity to tell his side.

[jswordy]

69. OK, No Surrender, here is a good post where we are not...

...arguing, but rather discussing it. At last there is no knee-jerk.

I can understand how you are troubled by that. I also hope you can understand why I wonder why you feel you must TAKE ACTION. You are in no way directly connected with this situation. I see in some other posts what I would interpret as possible jealousy (they lived like kings or some such) and prejudgment (which I already pointed out).

If it's in the local paper with his name and all, why not let someone else turn him in. And I say that because there will likely be negatives for you in turning him in, if it is ever found out that you did. And for your sister, as well.

Further, I hope you can understand that there are myriad ways this alleged thing could've gone down, which could have precipitated his flight. Innocent until proven guilty. He may have a legit reason for having left. I'm NOT saying he does, but it is possible.

Lastly, I think you are maybe surprised at the responses here, because you may have expected only that a decision made prior to the post to turn him in would be supported unilaterally.

In the spirit of genuine discussion, I would urge you to think of the negatives, too, before you call the police. Then, after reflection, if you still feel compelled to turn him in and you are willing to deal with the consequences that may happen to you, do so.

[City Lights]

72. LOL, you claimed earlier that my mind was already made up

and were ROFL while urging me not to use 911 when I made the call.

You are right that I'm not directly connected with this situation, but I would feel extremely guilty if I found out that I could have stopped it but didn't before it happened again.

However, you assumed incorrectly that I am somehow jealous of their financial situation. You obviously don't know me - other people's wealth does not impress me. I was simply stating an observation my sister made.

I am aware that he is innocent until proven guilty, but it's going to be difficult for him to prove he is innocent since he won't show up in court.

And no, I'm not at all surprised by the responses here. DU has lots of opinions and I wanted to hear all of them - that's why I made the original post.

[jswordy]

81. LOL right back, yer gonna make the call! No question! n/t

[Bunny]

3. Turn him in. He ripped some people off for 78K. That's a crime, and he

deserves to pay for it. He and your sister's friend have lived off of this money (presumably), their fun is over, now he needs to pay the price. How do you know that his victim wasn't some elderly couple, maybe the 78K was their life savings? Turn the bastard in.

[fit4life]

6. I'm with Bunny on this one.

Great advice, great explanation! :)

[Bunny]

14. We appear to be among the few who feel this way.

I'm astounded at the number of people here who apparently think it's okay to steal a HUGE amount of money and get away with it. They're probably the same people who called for Ken Lay's head when Enron fell apart. But let some poor sap get ripped of for 78K, and they say stay out of it? I hope they're never treated in this way.

[Susang]

42. I'm with you on this

I may not like having to do it, but I would bite the bullet, so to speak, and make the call. I know enough about contracting scams to know that they target the elderly and mid to low income families, the segment of the population that is least able to afford the lost money. I think they're very low people indeed.

[Bunny]

46. Thanks Susang. Glad to see I'm not alone here. n/t

[Patiod]

90. I'm with you as well

I know it's sappy, but there was this little family on "Extreme Makeover Home Edition" who had given money to a contractor, the contractor tore up their house, and then disappeared. When the TV show "found" them, they were living in a friend's attic.

If it were a dispute over the quality of the work, or whether he had to return some of the money because materials weren't what the homeowner expected, that would be a "keep your nose out of it" deal. But this is criminal fraud - the guy simply stole their $78K. Aren't we somewhat responsible for looking out for one another? Why leave it to "someone else"?

[City Lights]

16. They lived like royalty.

My sister always wondered how they managed to live like kings. I think we're finding out..

[Nye Bevan]

5. Your username combined with the subject line is quite amusing!

I would say forget about it. If he was wanted for a violent crime then the situation would be different, but this person has completed his work for you, so it really doesn't matter to you what happens to him. Just forget that you even know about the warrant.

[progmom]

8. You have to decide that.

I don't think I would do it. If you're feeling weird about knowing the whereabouts of someone who has an outstanding arrest warrant, then yeah, talk to your sister. But turning him in...I just don't think I could do it.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. As a person who just did some renovations, a question...

It is standard practice not to pay until work starts or a contract is signed. We had a contractor who I paid weekly, which was great, no serious cash flow issues and we could monitor the work and make changes as we went along.

I am wondering why the payment of $78,000 up front? What type of a job was it? We did our third floor and added a sunroom for a total of 1000 square feet and it didn't come to that amount.

[City Lights]

12. When he worked for me, he required 50% down

so he could purchase the supplies he needed to complete the job.

I really don't know about the details of the job in question.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. $160,000 seems like a pretty big job for one guy. n/t

Any chance the warrant was wrongly issued?

[City Lights]

23. He doesn't work alone.

It's his business, but he has others who work for him. My father is one of those people and he said this guy is nothing but trouble. My father eventually refused to work for him. My father had to repeatedly ask for payment he was owed. When my father finally got paid, this guy told him not to cash the check for a specific number of days.

It's possible the warrant was wrongly issued. He skipped town, and all his court dates, which raises my suspicion.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. If he has people that work for him that are depending on him

and he screwed someone out of $78,000, I say turn him in. That is a whole lot of money to most people.

[jswordy]

62. You have hit the nail on the head! Here's how to pay contractors.

1.) Check the contractor's name with the local building association and the Better Business Bureau. Be sure he is licensed with the city (ask to see his license or call the city), and bonded.

2.) Get a written contract that specifies points during construction at which money will be disbursed, and also contains specific performance clauses that are concrete, such as how the final "punch list" of things to be done will be completed before final payment, and how the contractor will assure his work is satisfactory.

3.) Pay a little "behind the work." In other words, if the contract says you pay at the first third done, don't pay a third of the money. Pay a quarter. At the second third of the work, pay a third (55% paid/66% done). When the job is done, pay the remainder. This helps ensure the contractor will finish.

4.) Never deal with a contractor who: asks for the money up front; asks for money to buy supplies ahead of time; asks for any kind of advance payment before work is performed; is not licensed in your locale; has complaints registered against him; is not bonded and insured.

Here is a good article from Austin on selecting a contractor:

http://www.ufcu.org/browse.php?content_name=home_contractor

[ohiosmith]

10. Turn the scumbag in.

[Wilber_Stool]

11. At the very least

your sister should confront them with your dilemma. I would not go to the law. It might build a fire under him to get it cleared up. I can think of few people in my life that deserve to lose $78,000.

[AlCzervik]

15. He's probably scamming someone right now

in his new location and will continue to do so until someone turns him in.

[City Lights]

18. That's exactly what I'm afraid of.

I also can't help but wonder how many other people he screwed who never did anything about it because the amount wasn't large enough.

[Susang]

31. Those were my first thoughts

Many people make their living this way. My mom works in property management and deals with contractors all the time, there are legitimate contractors who do a wonderful job, but there are a lot of scam artists out there too.

A lot of people don't bother to file charges because they are embarrassed about being taken and still think that they might get the work done at some point. Since so many of these criminals move around the country to work their scams, they can be really hard to prosecute.

I won't tell you what to do, it's a hard decision. If it were me, I would probably see if I could inform the police of his whereabouts anonymously, so as not to hurt your relationship with your sister. But I would probably do something regardless, in the attempt to stop him from stealing money from other people. If he didn't do it, he will have the opportunity to present his case in court.

[Semi_subversive]

25. Exactly!

Not turning him in will cause grief for how many more victims?? He is a criminal. My ex-brother in law scammed people out of $400,000 and it cost him three years of his thieving life.

[Lars39]

19. How's he making a living in the new state?

Is he still doing home repairs? I'd wonder if he's ripping off little old ladies,
or stealing the materials he needs from other job sites.
I admit I'm biased; I'd turn him in.
We built a house a few yrs ago, being our own contractor.
If somebody walked off with $78,000, we would have been bankrupt.
Do it anonymously.

[City Lights]

26. He's still a contractor. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

127. Then there's still the potential that he's ripping off people.

Turn him in. In the long run, you might be doing him a favor. His next crime might be a lot more expensive to get out of.

[merh]

21. Put yourself in the place of the folks that allege that he took

the $78k, would you want someone to turn him in?

Okay, put yourself in his place - would you have taken the $78k? Probably not, but if you had, wouldn't you know that one day you would have to answer for it?

Empathy is a wonderful tool - try using it. Wear the shoes of the victim, wear the shoes of the alleged criminal (if you can).

[Frogtutor]

22. I say turn him in...

It seems to me that he must be guilty if he up and moved out of state right after his arrest. And if he's NOT guilty, or has some reasonable explanation for what happened, he'll have his day in court. As others have suggested, that $78,000 might have been someone's life savings. Regardless, no one should get away with such a crime.

While right and wrong are certainly not black and white issues, it seems to me that the right thing to do would be to come forward with whatever information you have to law enforcement.

[amazona]

33. your sister's best friend's HUSBAND ????

Unless there was a reward being offered, I would simply shut up and not get involved. This is a very tangential relationship. You are not at any risk of being arrested for harboring a fugitive if this is what you're worried about.

Why should your sister confront her friend? She already knows that these scumbags are running from the law after ripping off howeowners who needed repair. For unknown reasons she apparently has already made a decision to continue socializing with trash.

I can certainly understand YOUR not wanting to socialize with these people. Too many con artists defraud hurricane and tropical storm victims in my area for me to have any sympathy for this trash. I might confront my sister and say it's a bit much to expect me to socialize with known criminals at a family gathering. Especially since they aren't even family.

But other than that what more can you do? You could try calling the sheriff's office that is holding the warrant but they probably won't do anything about it unless you have a way of making it a political issue. As a real last gasp effort, you could inform your Congresscritter of the criminal's address and ask why nothing is being done about this known con artist who ripped off someone to the tune of $78K! A well-written letter -- not a screed -- might well be spark an inquiry from the Congresscritter's office to the D.A. about his lack of prosecutorial zeal.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[City Lights]

41. My sister thought the lawsuit was a misunderstanding

and had been resolved. She first found out this morning that these "scumbags" are on the run. She does not know how much her friend knows about the details. It's possible that her friend is in the dark to some of what her husband is doing - at least that's what she's hoping.

[amazona]

58. the wife knows -- not possible the friend is in the dark

Wives know that money doesn't appear by magic.

I suppose your sister could call her up and say, "Hey, friend, your husband made the paper because of his theft just in case you didn't know already that he's a con artist" but I don't see a kind or tactful way to imply that the wife is either stupid or a criminal herself. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't see why or how it is your sister's responsibility to "confront" anyone. Now certainly I would quietly distance myself from these people. But this can be done just by saying, "You know, such and such gathering is only for family members this year." No need to raise the issue that she just learned that her friends have been living on the proceeds of criminal enterprise.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Blue-Jay]

36. Nothing wrong with an anonymous tip to catch a crook.

[barb162]

37. What if he took $78, 000 from you? I bet you'd be on the phone to the

cops and would want everyone to turn him in so you could possibly get all or some of your money back. So turn the crook in.

[candle_bright]

40. Turn him in

It's the right thing to do.

Contact the law enforcement agency where the warrant originated and let them know where this guy lives. They'll take it from there.

[sinkingfeeling]

48. Turn him in!! Most states have some type of protection for

those that turn in suspected criminals. It may be a hotline or you could just call the county prosecutor's office and give them an anonymous tip with the guy's address.

[amazona]

60. they'll even arrange to give you the reward anonymously

If there is a reward, they do have a system set up for people claim the rewards using code names rather than real names.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[City Lights]

61. Thanks to everyone who responded.

I appreciate everyone's input.

[ernstbass]

73. If he's a repug turn him in

just kidding! I personally wouldn't turn anyone in who commited a nonviolent offense unless they personally ripped me off.

[miss_kitty]

77. people like this ripoff old people on fixed incomes

often that can mean the difference between self sustaining lifestyle and losing one's home, especially if it is a necessary repair, and the owner spends all the money on the fake repair. Also, these people feel so stupid for being taken, they don't report the crime.
I would cease all inquiries to family about him and turn him in. He's taking money that's not his as if he's entitled to it, and ruining people in the process. If your home state is not interested, give his new home state a heads up. And don't worry about him. He has no concerns for the people he steals from.

[Maddy McCall]

83. Turn him in. He gives home contractors a bad name.

His victims, yes, VICTIMS, deserve the right to see him in court. Turn him in and let the judicial system work out the rest.

[Susang]

88. But Maddy....

That would make you <gasp> a SNITCH!!!! :scared:

[Maddy McCall]

109. LOL!

Least of my worries would be what other people think of me. HE'S the one who committed the crime. If he had battered his wife or abused his children, would people be considering this a "moral dilemma?"

Hell no. Turn the bastard in.

:hi:

[Susang]

112. But, but....

Then you'd be a "Government Informant"! <insert scary music here> }(

:hi:

[Maddy McCall]

113. Damn! I wanted to be called a "narc!"

Too bad no drugs are involved. :silly: :-)

[Susang]

115. Oh, but drugs are involved

Didn't you read the whole thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2595058&mesg_id=2596613&page=

[Maddy McCall]

119. Just read that.

Edit to remove an emotional response.

I do wish everyone on this thread well. It's a shame that the village is no longer.

:grr:

[Susang]

120. I don't wish him ill

He's got enough on his plate already, why add? :shrug:

[northzax]

84. but the single most important question...

is there a reward?

yes, of course turn him in. but check to see if there's a reward first...

[WoodrowFan]

97. drop the dime

turn him in. If the situation were reversed wouldn't you want him turned in. Besides, how do you know that there was only the one victim??

[atreides1]

103. The Final Decision Is Yours

We can all pipe in with what we think is the appropriate thing to do, but you are the one that has to decide what is right for you.

Notify the authorities and provide them with the information that you have, and let them deal with it from that point.

Check to see if the local law enforcemnet has a "Crime Busters" phone line. That way any infomation you provide is anonymous, and you won't have to be concerned about how this will affect you or your sister, because no one will know who supplied the information.

And as long as you don't say anything about it to anyone, things should turn out okay.

[Padraig18]

104. Drop the dime on him.

Thieves are among the lowest human life forms.