Is this cruel to dogs?

[Wcross]

I leave my dogs outside at night, they have a dog house with straw inside and a cloth door. At what temp would you say this is unkind or cruel to the animals? I don't care about legal trouble, I want to do the right thing by the dogs.
So at what temp should I consider bringing them inside or a heated area?

[Maple]

1. Dogs shouldn't live outside

If you want dogs...they live in the house.

[einsteins stein]

27. Why? /nt

[Drifter]

37. That's a bunch of crap ...

Dogs can live outside, as long as they have at least some shelter (bedding never hurts). On very cold nights you should bring them in.

One time while on a snowmobiling trip in the Adirondacks (staying in a camp, stove heat, out house, etc), my dog was accidentally let out in the middle of the night. Turns out it hit 20 degrees below zero that night.

In the morning, I looked for my dog (since it was odd that she was not either on or next to my bed). I finally went out side, and there she was curled up on the porch.

Cheers
Drifter

[rucky]

2. Depends on the breed...

I'd suggest checking in on them as the nights get colder. If they're like my dogs, they'll let you know.

[Maple]

3. If you can't take care of dogs

you shouldn't have them

[YellowRubberDuckie]

20. Dogs are made for weather...

If it's so cold you're freezing your nuts off, it's probably time to at least bring them into the garage or put them in the barn with the horses. Some people can't have dogs inside the house. Chill out, Maple. What state do you live in anyway? Here in Oklahoma people leave their dogs out 24/7/365...but we still manage to take care of them. And most of them live to ripe old ages. Most of them are farm dogs, and have dealt with it their whole lives.
Duckie

[Drifter]

38. huh ?

.

[DrGonzoLives]

44. What the hell are you talking about?

As others have said, dogs are built to be outside. Keeping them inside all the time is actually bad for them.

[Book Lover]

4. Mean at any temperature...

Why are they outside at night? Why have you brought them into your family? Do you think of them as a part of your family?

[Wcross]

15. Farm Dogs

I should have included the fact in the original post. I had two dogs last year, they came in the house from time to time, but they really enjoy the outside more. I had to bribe them to come inside. Now I adopted three more after a neighbor abandoned them for a total of five dogs.
The adopted dogs would have been put down shortly after arrival at the pound. It was either feed them or kill them. I have spayed two of the new arrivals, gotten all the shots and had a check-up completed on all three.
They are free to roam my farm, and the surrounding countryside. There is little chance of them being hit by a car because the safe maximum speed on my road is 25mph and very little through traffic.
It is sort of the way dogs have always lived. I live in Tennessee and the weather isn't too much of an issue- but it does get chilly every once in a while.

[Ilsa]

5. I had a dog.

He wouldn't have anything to do with living inside. He loved to roam, hunt, run with a neighborhood pack. Fiercely devoted. Only wanted to come in for freezing weather (about twice a year).

[roguevalley]

6. Here in Alaska, it sort of depends on the dog.

What kind of dog do you have? Any short hair, in my opinion, based on your stated criteria, needs to be inside if the temp drops to forty or below.

Long hairs, a little colder but since you have a good bed for them, if they are long hairs, it would be okay.

I always have indoor dogs but I never leave them out below forty.

[Padraig18]

7. Here, the vets say...

... that when either the absolute temperature get's below 20 F., or when the windchill reaches the same, bring them inside. As they have houses (off the ground, I trust) with straw and a covering over the door, they should be OK until it gets that cold.

[Wcross]

12. Thanks! n/t

[Nikia]

8. I had a cruel neighbor as a kid

They kept their beagle outside always in Ohio. The poor little dog looked like she was freezing most of the winter.

[Elad]

9. As soon as it gets cold enough that you wouldn't want to sleep outside

then it's time to stop forcing the dogs to sleep outside.

[Scaramouche]

13. However when you let them sleep in the bed and under the covers...

then they're taking over...

eat at the table, sleep on the bed, kis on th emouth, fart in the car...

Gotta' draw the line some where

[arwalden]

41. My Little 12 Pound Shih-Tzu Sleeps On My Bed With Me...

... and sometimes she'll snuggle under the covers at my feet.

I think it's sweet and adorable. --- But then again... she's a pampered and "perfumed" and a prissy pillow puppy. A lap dog.

I think it depends on the dog and the owner's grooming habits for that dog.

[E_Zapata]

10. please just call the local humane society and ask

Look at all these different 'opinions'

40 degrees...probably a little high

20 degrees windchill -- oh, bring them in well before that

But please get an authoritative ruling on that. If it's wet cold vs dry cold -- there is a difference

And the dogs will let you know when it is way too cold - but they will suffer long before that.

[MojoKrunch]

11. No, of course not.

//I leave my dogs outside at night, they have a dog house with straw inside and a cloth door. At what temp would you say this is unkind or cruel to the animals?//
Ummm... if they were buried by snow?
If they're short-hairs I'd definitely put a "warming" light bulb of some kind.
So long as it isn't too drafty they should be good to hard-freezing weather... 10-20°F.
They'll huddle together when they get too cold.
You could put an old blanket or two outside and they'll nest in that as well.

//I don't care about legal trouble, I want to do the right thing by the dogs.
So at what temp should I consider bringing them inside or a heated area?//
IMO, wind chill below 10°F.

If they're long-haired/cold-natured dogs, I wouldn't really worry much.

I'm of the opinion that dogs shouldn't *live* inside houses at all, frankly.
(miniature dogs/lap dogs are a sin, IMO)
I mean they're bred from *wolves* for heavens sake.

Mojo

[leftofthedial]

14. don't listen to the all dogs are house dogs crowd

they should just have cats.

Different breeds have different tolerance for cold. Consult your vet.

[mkregel]

16. During the California Summers

My dogs always prefer to sleep outside. They are Samoyeds, and keeping them indoors would be CRUEL. They get real sluggish and tired indoors, but are very spry outside.

[LanternWaste]

17. Without trying to sound unsympathetic

Without trying to sound unsympathetic, I've always been of the opinion that anyone who owns dogs/cats should keep them indoors, taking them outside for exercise, play and to do their business. Those animals love us unconditionally and we owe it to them to reflect that love.

O-kay, minor rant over. Temperatures which are dangerous to humans are dangerous to animals. Temperatures which are uncomfortable to humans are *usually* uncomfortable to animals. If you do keep an animal outside, shelter with plenty of clean blankets (fleece is fantastic) and an article or two of your clothing should tide the dog over until the weather gets too cold or hot (less than 55 degrees or more than 90 degrees).

[leftofthedial]

23. but I love that massive hairy farting dirty romping in the boonies

beast when he is outside

I love him!

Love him, I tell you!

[LanternWaste]

24. I didn't read you initial post closely enough. No doubts you lover him!

Absolutely no doubt that you do. I live in the suburbs and while that may not be the ideal permanent outdoor environment for a dog, I imagine that out in the farmlands and wilderlands of America, the acres and acres of untamed land would be heaven to a dog. I obviously didn't read your initial post closely enough.

I did my best to take my own dog to a small (20-acres) woodland a friend of mine owns. We'd go out for the weekend, just her and I, and the joy on her face when she'd chase frogs in the pond or dig a hole for no obvious reason was fantastic. I wanted her to have more of that, but suburbia is probably worse on dogs than on us...

[Robb]

39. The ignorance is overwhelming.

Ad this is not specifically directed at any one person.

First, my family has forgotten more about dogs that most people will ever know. Not braggin', just sayin'. :)

Second, bring them to your vet, and s/he will tell you about the dogs' specific tolerances.

Third, it depends on the dog.

Fourth, it depends on the dog.

I can't even decide where to begin. Feel a dog's footpads; notice the warmth? One of the adaptive traits to compensate for the lack of fur is a high blood flow through the pads -- especially on northern breeds. (This is why the pads bleed so badly if you ever cut them, like cutting your own ear).

While I'm on northern breeds, the tail, draped over their mouth and nose while they're asleep, is a hold-over from cold, cold nights -- it keeps their breath warmer during the night.

My point it, these dogs sleep regularly, and comfortably. under four inches of powder in temperatures of twenty below. They also will overheat if I run them around in the house when it's hot -- and will have to pant for an hour!

Some dogs can't go outside when it's too cold. My huskies can't go out when it's too hot. They nap in the snow at night. Sometimes they come in for an hour or two and hang out at the foot of the bed, on the down comforter -- you know, because we love each other -- but then go outside again to cool down.

There are no generalizations about dogs. Read, read, read. PM me if you have questions.

[Loyal]

18. Bring them inside!

Let them know they're part of your family... are you trying to make me cry? LOL. :( Maybe I'll adopt em if you dont want em. :(

[YellowRubberDuckie]

21. Just because we have out door dogs, doesn't mean we don't love them.

Jeez. What is wrong with letting them live out doors. We tried to bring our border collie in a few times...and he wasn't having it. Some of them like their freedom. Don't leave a Yorkie or a Basset hound puppy out in the hard, but if it's a big dog like a border collie or Rottweiller, leave them outside. THey like it. And if they want to come in, they'll let you know. They're DOGS...they're not children.
Duckie

[Blue_Chill]

33. Yes some breeds do enjoy the outdoors

Especially if you have more then one dog. However leaving a dog alone is ALWAYS a bad idea.

[Wcross]

25. Ok!

I have five dogs in the house right now- talk about fun! Trouble is, every time I get up, they follow. Everytime I sit down, it takes ten minutes for them to calm down again!
It's gonna be your fault if I am known around these parts as "the creepy old dog guy"!

I have been called worse! :)

[DuctapeFatwa]

19. At the temp at which you would not want to sleep outdoors in their house

The fur doesn't help all that much.

Plus their noses and feet don't have any fur.

[DrWeird]

22. Let them sleep outside.

You'll know if they get to cold. Of course it depends on the dog. The people who say it's cruel to leave the dog outside probably own some permahypothermic chihuahua that shivers at ninety degrees. My friends malamute gets uncomfortable at anything over fifty degrees. And yes, those fur coats do work.

[MojoKrunch]

26. Too weird

I think it was in the book Darwins Ghost that I read a recounting of the domestication of dogs by man.
The author talked about the "infantilisation" of domesticated dogs... how humans have durned full grown wild animals into, essentially, overgrown puppies.
And reading these few posts have made me realize just how complicated the human/canine relationship really is.
And how like all human/animal interaction the shaping occurs almost unconsciously.

We humans with our big brains have bred these wild animals into child-like companions from what was once a cooperative relationship through a working relationship to what is now, IMO, a near dysfunctional relationship.

There are actualy people here saying that it is *cruel* to let a dog live outside.
Amazing.

Mojo

[einsteins stein]

29. That is SOOO Weird

We discussed the exact subject in a college course today, discussing the neotenization of dogs (breading them to have infant like features).

Essentially, dogs were bred to act like wolf puppies, well into their maturity-waggy tails, jumpy, excited, face-licking, smiley dogs.

On Edit - Forgot my original point -

Dogs were living outside long before humans interacted. They have fur. They can handle it! It's nice to let your dog inside, but it's NOT cruel to leave them out. Unless, of course, the weather is extreme.

This is really just common sense, and I am completely in to animal right, even to the point where it governs my diet.

[MojoKrunch]

40. That *is* coincidental. :)

Sometimes I feel like people haven't a clue as to just how much our mere presence on this planet effects great change.

I've made a concscious decision to not take a dog into my house unless I can give it a large, safe yard to run in.
IMO, keeping a large dog exclusively inisde(no running room) is abusive.
And yet I know folks who keep large dogs in their apartments and think it is perfectly fine.

//Dogs were living outside long before humans interacted. They have fur. They can handle it!//
Exactly!
Obviously not all breeds are built the same, but for the most part this is true.

//It's nice to let your dog inside, but it's NOT cruel to leave them out. Unless, of course, the weather is extreme.//
Again, exactly.
But then this is why we build *doghouses*, eh?
:D

//This is really just common sense, and I am completely in to animal right, even to the point where it governs my diet.//
I've vaciliated on the issue over the years.
The "problem" is that I grew up in a small farming community and we raised/slaughtered our own meat.
Or bought meat from a butcher who did... IOW, we *knew* where our food came from.
We *knew* the animals were heatlhy and not injected with all sorts of crap... that the hogs and chickens lived *outside* and not in freaking hotbox cages.
And we didn't *waste* any of it.

So I've never been completely vegetarian.

But I do sympathize with the plight of animals processed by the agri-industry.
North Carolina has a huge hog/poulty farming industry and it is just horrific how they treat those animals.

And I have eaten a mostly vegetarian diet at different points in my life.

---
On a side note concerning animals and humans... one of the negatives of the historical impact of human animal husbandry which rarely gets mentioned is the rise of disease attributed to crossover from animals to man.
The most obvious is the recent "mad cow disease" thing, but it seems we can attribute a large number of human diseases to bringing animals "into our homes"(early animal husbandry).

Mojo

[nomaco-10]

28. They live, breathe and feel pain and happiness,.....

extreme heat and bitter cold, they are just like us. I could never sleep a wink knowing something was cold, hungry or in anyway distressed by a banishment from my home to face the cold and cruel world without my assistance, especially when I could make adifference in their existence. Call me a bleeding heart, so be it.

[einsteins stein]

32. What is cruel to a big hairless pink human,

may not be cruel to hairy dog. We retain heat differently, we cool off differently, etc. They are NOT just like us, not in every sense.

I don't think you're being over zealous at all, in fact, I would rather see people be over protective than careless. Your concern would only be a problem if you became judgemental of those who do not agree with you. That doesn't seem to be the case :-)

Love your dog, be happy!

Stein

[nomaco-10]

35. Lol, my motto is .....

"love me, love my dog, and my big fat ass cat too while your at it". I have been exposed to some people lately that look on pets as something to turn your nose up at and are filthy critters in the house, I don't subscribe to that theory, I look on them as a compliment to my life and damn good company. They are as clean as you stay on top of the minor messes they make. I'm an animal lover, I guess you can tell. I'd put their companionship up against any ex-husband and republican I've ever known. LOL

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. My baby sleeps inside. I think it depends on the dog, but I would give

them the option to be inside in cold weather.

[Blue_Chill]

31. My dog sleeps in my bed.

I would never leave my dog outside because it seperates him/her from the pack. Dogs have a natural need to be part of a pack, if denied this they suffer mentally.

If they bother you inside train them to sleep in their own bed. My father built a bed for the dog complete with matress. It's next to his bed and my mom, dad, and their dog all go to bed at the same time after the 11 o'clock news. :D

[populistmom]

34. Depends on the dog

We have an American Eskimo and she loves it when it's cold and snowy, but she's kind of barky (barks at cars, squirrels, you name it), so we have let her in. Sometimes we have to drag her in. Follow the dog's cue, but generally I'd say, if its cold, let them in.

[RebelOne]

36. Yes, it is cruel to leave your dogs out in the cold at night.

How would you like to sleep out there? I would never even consider leaving my dog outside at night.

[Robb]

42. I forgot a VERY important point....

In my previous post, I forgot the most important thing:

Bless you for adopting dogs to your farm! :)

(edited to add dogs)

[moroni]

43. What a great picture!

:yourock:

I have an Eskimo. 11 years old.

[Wcross]

45. No choice!

I couldn't take them down to the shelter- they would have be juiced up. I am uncomfortable with this thought, but the best thing that could have happened was the neighbors house burning down. These little things would come by last summer and be covered with ticks, last winter they would be covered with grease from sleeping under the guys car for warmth. They did nothing for the things but feed them.
I will take care of them and give them the care they deserve. I kind of enjoy the company they provide! Nothing beats coming home from work to see a bunch of wagging tails!