Whose is the most tragic American life?

[saltpoint]

Whose do think is the most tragic of American lives?

There's no "right" answer -- I'm just interested in people's thoughts and examples.

Please roam all walks of life for considerations.

I've listed a few names on this skeletal poll, but included an 'Other' line, hoping that many DUers will help round out the list, and you can list as many as you wish.

Outrageous and obscure 'Others' are welcome.

---edit: typo

[China_cat]

1. Small nitpick

There were NO women (or men, for that matter) burned as witches in New England. There WERE 19 hangings and 1 pressing but no burnings.

[saltpoint]

3. You are correct and I have amended the poll language --

-- to "persecuted as witches" which is what I should have written in the first place.

I appreciate your clarity on this, China Cat. Thank you.

[hyphenate]

2. There are too many

but I would like to cite the murder of James Byrd, the black man who was dragged behind the truck in Texas until he was dead. What a horrible way to die.

[saltpoint]

4. Very good choice. I grieve for his friends and --

-- family. What an ugly episode in 'the land of the free."

Thank you.

[Aristus]

5. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but:

bearing in mind that technically, it's a tragedy if not acted upon by outside forces; that a person is brought down by his or her own failings......I'd have to say Richard Nixon.

Yes, yes, I know. But here was an immensely gifted man brought down by his own paranoia, insecurities and lust for validation through power. He could have been so much more than he ended up being. That's a tragedy.

Now to cleanse the palate and show you I'm not deluded, 'tragic' does not describe The Chimp, because he has no gifts, no talents, no desire to do right by his country and the world. He has never accomplished a thing on his own, and couldn't fight his way out of a Girl Scout meeting. He is a cipher.

[saltpoint]

9. Nixon certainly is a tragic figure -- especially if Power is --

-- an ingredient to the tragic life. He was a power junkie a long time before he was an alcoholic.

I have Pat Nixon on my list also, but the DU software only allows 10 slots.

No, I think you make a strong case for R. Nixon. Don't apologize.

[NewJeffCT]

45. my high school English teacher would agree with you

Going by the classic definition of tragedy of somebody in a high position brought down by his or her own failings... and, my HS english teacher was pretty liberal.

[saltpoint]

46. Hi, NewJeffCt. If you don't mind, I want to tell you that --

-- your English teacher sounds like a very good one and it sounds like he/she had a very keen student as well.

'Appreciate that post, thank you.

[NewJeffCT]

49. well, his English class in high school

His English classes my last two years in high school were tougher than anything I encountered in college - and, I took 4 english classes in college, despite my being an accounting major and needing only 2.

I think he also said that part of tragedy is that the tragic figure gets partial redemption in the end - and, actually, by the end of his life, Nixon did get some respect for some of his accomplishments - creating the EPA, opening up relations with China, etc - and became something of an elder statesman for a brief period.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. Elvis Presley.

Poor boy from Memphis realises the ultimate achievement of the American dream, finds it ultimately empty and meaningless, and dies of the excess it affords. Going by the classical definition of tragedy, Elvis' is the quintessential American tragedy.

[saltpoint]

10. Hello Spider Jerusalem.

Couldn't agree with you more. Elvis Presley is a tragic knock-out.

All the ingredients are there and are very front-and-center with the times, too.

[Aristus]

11. That's a good one. I hadn't thought of that.

I remember reading that Elvis was constantly giving expensive presents to people he didn't know. His generosity was usually misguided; like giving a Cadillac to a woman who needed food, or expensive jewelry to a homeless person. Sounds like he was striving for meaning and fulfilment, and couldn't quite manage it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. Fame walled Elvis off from people.

He was almost desperate for meaningful human contact, but who he was meant that almost everyone wanted something from him...that and the fact that he didn't forget where he came from were probably the forces behind his generosity, but the same excess of feeling eventually drove him into drugged seclusion...quite sad, really....

[MadHound]

7. I would have to say Other, many many others

For every persecuted person that we know of, there are thousands that have passed on in silence and obscurity. For every tortured artist that became famous, there are thousands who died anonymous. For every politician and political leader, there are the homeless and unloved who passed on unkown, unloved and unremembered.

These people that you mention, tragic as they are, at least had the posthumous honor of fame and/or noteriety. Many many many others did not, and that is where the real tragedy lies.

[saltpoint]

8. You're quite right, and the pathos of those unknown --

-- people's anonymity and suffering is every bit as "valid" as a well-known figure's suffering. Absolutely.

[saltpoint]

12. A word on Meriwether Lewis...

There was strong talk that he would return in triumph from the Louisiana Purchase exploration and enjoy ample support to propel him into the White House.

His death was a suspicious, tawdry thing in a deep-woods cabin.

[shrike]

18. Wasn't there an investigation and exhumation not along ago?

I seem to remember the conclusion was suicide.

I've also read speculation that Lewis was bipolar -- as many brilliant, forward-thinking people have been.

[saltpoint]

30. My hunch is you're right on both counts.

I don't mean to be trivial about this man's life, but it would really make an engaging film. The high school text books talk about the thrill and exaltation of the expedition, but fail to mention the sad return trip back to Washington that Lewis didn't complete.

[jackster]

13. all those lives lost in the wars we should have never fought...

[saltpoint]

16. Hello, jackster. Yes. It's disquieting that a certain --

-- current U.S. president has not learned a few of the lessons from his history books.

Good (and appropriate) citation of tragic lives.

[ThorsHammer]

32. Agreed

[jdonaldball]

14. Edgar Allan Poe

Genius, died in abject poverty at 40, and was unrecognized in America until the French told us how brilliant he was.

[saltpoint]

17. Poe is one of my champions, if not one of my role models, exactly.

Have you by chance followed the passionate defense of Poe's reputation by Lou Reed in NYC?

When I made up my draft for this poll, Poe was the second name to pop into my mind, after Meriwether Lewis.

[shrike]

20. Poe was slimed by an early biographer

who also happened to be one of his bitterest enemies.

Poe had his problems but was no drugged-out maniac. He was a critic and editor, something which does involve the other side of the brain. He was the father of the American detective story as well as a devoted husband.

[saltpoint]

22. Any friend of Poe's is a friend of mine, here here!

Many great people have been "slimed" by pissy biographers. You speak the truth.

[jdonaldball]

28. Griswold slimed Poe. Envious creep like Iago to Othello

[bobweaver]

15. The indigenous population who lived here peacefully for thousands of years

[saltpoint]

19. Hi, bobweaver. Agreed. Should be on any such list.

I cited Geronimo because the post-capture photo still tear out my heart, but you widen the circle to include all the victims of "manifest destiny."

Thank you.

[shrike]

21. A word on Franklin Pierce

Lost all three of his children, one of whom died on the way to the inaugration. He, his wife and son Benny were traveling by train. It derailed and 11-year-old Benny was the sole fatality. I read a heart-wrenching account of how Pierce threw his coat over the corpse and tried to take his screaming wife away from the scene.

[saltpoint]

23. All true. After the train accident, Pierce's wife Jane --

-- told her husband that God was punishing him for "ever seeking the presidency," and she refused to go to Washington to live, and spent essentially the remainder of her life in quasi-seclusion, writing letters to her dead children.

Pierce became an alcoholic and lived a forgotten life until he died.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. One of the myriad ways belief in a Big Man in the Sky hurts people. (nt)

[FizzFuzz]

25. the thousands of nameless girls and women

forbidden control over their bodies;

denied birth control, denied safe legal abortion, some the victims of rape or incest, who died as a result of "back alley" abortions. Or died by the hand of parents who murder them for having sullied the family honor. Or by the hand of the impregnator who didn't want to be burdened.

....and it still goes on; our great leader and his rabid constituency wants to return us to the thick of those days. This one is the continuing tragedy

[saltpoint]

27. Yes. I think of the young girls turned out of their own homes --

-- because they "got in a family way" and are cast away by their own parents for "bringing shame" upon their families.

That's a societal cruelty and I think it's strongly connected to the people who support Dubya because they know he won't do squat to protect Roe v. Wade.

Shame on this president and shame on those parents who cast their own daughters away in the moment when they most needed help and support.

[gantoline]

26. I am surprised it has not been mentioned yet.....

I think the mos tragic lives belong to slaves and the victim's of the north Atlantic slave trade. Living and dying in bondage no greater tragedy to make one weep.

[saltpoint]

29. Hi, gantoline. No question about it, they should be --

-- mentioned. (The DU software only allows 10 slots, so I had to pick and choose, but I say that the list is skeletal, and encourage people to do exactly what you have done. Thank you.)

Also -- on the subject of your post -- have you ever heard James Taylor's song "Sugar Trade"?

It's on his DAD LOVES HIS WORK album and talks of:

"Rum from New England and codfish from Maine
They were building a wall that will always remain

The Crown and the Cross, the musket and the chain
The White Man's religion
The family name

Two hundred years later and who is to blame --
The captain of the cargo or the juice of the sugar caine..."

[gantoline]

42. good to hear someone thought of it already

very interesting lyrics i think i will go pick that up.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. That surely deserves mention, gantoline

From 1619 to 1865, countless Africans lived their entire lives as slaves, torn away from everything they had ever known, forced to endure a horrific voyage across the sea, sold to whomever without any say in the matter (if their owner happened to be a sadist, they had no legal recourse), working their whole lives and knowing that nothing they could do would ever improve their lives or their children's lives.

No wonder owners complained about slaves being "lazy." Why would you work hard for someone who didn't pay you, knowing that you and your children would always be slaves, no matter what?

Looking at the dates, I realize that the U.S. (or what later became the U.S.) had slavery for 236 years, while it has been outlawed for only 140.

Oh, and by the way, welcome to DU!

[gantoline]

43. Thank you

glad to be here among friends of the "good" america yes the dates you mentioned about how long we had slavery vs. how long it was outlawed are interesting. we were the last major country to abolish the slave trade. how horrible.

[Bertha Venation]

33. perhaps not "most" but certainly tragic: Lorena Hickok

Eleanor Roosevelt's devoted friend, who never got the chance to be fully no. 1 to her beloved. A sad story.

[saltpoint]

34. I think this is an excellent choice.

Yes. History owes her an apology, at the very least.

[Bertha Venation]

35. "an apology" -- hear, hear.

Good thread, Crusoe.

[saltpoint]

40. Fond greetings right back atcha, Bertha Venation --

-- and thanks also for remaining on DU.

Your posts continue to draw my attention and earn my respect.

Don't every stop.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. Any child born to unloving parents

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[saltpoint]

38. Of which just one would be way too many.

Thanks, GPV. You brought it right home.

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. Well, I come from a family of educators. This is seen all too often

:cry:

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[MissWaverly]

41. Max Cleland

Here's a man who was horribly injured in Vietnam and turned his life around and dedicated it to public service only to be defeated by dirty politics and electronic vote rigging, they were only practicing for 04, he went into the election with a 12% lead and still lost. I hope that truth finds it way to his door and to Janet Reno's door as well; they are not forgotten heroes!

[saltpoint]

44. Thank you for saying this.

Max is one of my heroes, and even more so after the smear job Ralph Reed and Ann Coulter put on him.

That was a nail on the head, MissWaverly.

[MissWaverly]

47. new wind

Listen there's a new wind starting to blow, people are starting to
scrutinize these talking heads and they are going to go down with a splat! thanks for the compliment!

[Ernesto]

48. Colin Powell jumps to my mind

A man that could have been so much more. He sold his soul on the international stage.

[saltpoint]

50. Hi, Ernesto. You called it right on Colin Powell.

He is still a respected man in many parts of the world, but after that U.N. speech about weapons, it was curtains for him among progressives. I wanted to look up to him, but that speech ended it.

(On another post, just wanted to say your film recommendations are totally right-on.)

[NewJeffCT]

51. Powell is still too respected

To be a true tragic figure, you have to be brought down to the absolute bottom, like Nixon resigning the presidency in disgrace. If Powell had been run out of town, then I'd agree with you.

while none on DU really respect Powell for the Iraq fiasco before the UN, the average American still thinks he's ok.

[KamaAina]

52. Al Gore

received more votes for President than anyone in U.S. history up to that time, only to get ripped off by a thuggish Extreme Court.

Also saw his prized invention, the Internet, become a sleazy bazaar of spam, porn, and refinancing scams. :-)

[saltpoint]

54. Love your description of the web -- "a sleazy bazaar of --

-- spam, porn, and refinancing scams."

You've hit on exactly why I'm addicted to it!

: )

[semillama]

53. How about Abe Lincoln?

I mean, do I even have to list why? Just look at him!

[saltpoint]

55. The Lincoln Memorial is my favorite in Washington.

I'm blown away by the Gettysburg Address, etched ino the marble, too.

I know a certain political party who could sure use Lincoln's advice lately...

...instead of whooping it up at Inaugural balls, the Bushies should march en masse down to Lincoln's Memorial and hang their damned heads in shame for disgracing his legacy.

[mark414]

56. a couple

sylvia plath...jack kerouac...but i voted jack johnson

[saltpoint]

57. Hi, mark414. I totally forgot about Kerouac and am --

-- kicking myself. Thank you for including him. I had Plath in my original list but used Ann Sexton for that slot. Plath might be the better example, though.

Thank you.