So, I'm gay. What do I do?

[Occulus]

How do I react to what's happened this week? It seems to be a validation of all the labels, all the hatred of people like me.

So what do I do? How do I respond to something that's consistently seen fit to grind me and people like me down into the dirt?

It's only going to get worse, you know. Next, it'll be "we can't have those people living in the same building as our children." "We can't have those people working with our children." "We can't let these people move into our neighborhoods."

I can't even have honest compassion for anyone anymore, because I don't know that they won't use that to kick me in the teeth for no other reason than I'm a fag, so I deserve it.

People in the mlive.com forums are openly calling for me and people like me to be killed. They don't even know who I am, and they want me dead.

So what do I do? Are my thoughts about getting a CCW license an appropriate response now?

How do I "reach out" to people who want me to suffer, who want me to be punished, and who would like to be the punisher?

How do I keep my chin up when this is ALL the treatment I've ever known, even from the people who are supposed to care about me?

Please help me figure this out. I feel like a target. A big one.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. Realize they are in the minority, whatever the election results

and go on going on. There are lots of us who will die with you to defend your rights.

[Occulus]

5. Minority? MINORITY?

I live in SW Michigan. It's always been "stupid queers" and "fucking faggots" here, ever since I was a child.

I'm facing a very frightening reality here: most people hate me and would love to see me suffer and die. How in the name of every god that's ever been worshipped can I possibly be calm about such a thing?

Every good thing I've ever tried to do for myself or for my future has been thwarted at every single turn because I'm "different". So what the bloody hell CAN I do?

[seraph]

48. Come to the Baystate

We're very smart here.

[Occulus]

12. I've always done that

and, every time, I've been kept from what I want for myself my this "minority".

Fag haters aren't a minority.... not to me. I'm forced to assume that everyone I meet hates be for being gay, even if they don't know I am, until I learn differently.

The saddest part is, if they do hate faggots like me, I don't dare tell them, or even broach the subject, but I don't know that's how they feel about gays... until they find out about me. Catch-22.

[demnan]

2. Go to the library

get copies of Martin Luther King's speechs, on tape if you can. Spend a few days listening to them. Check back here often for support and know that that dream, the dream that people will be regarded for "the content of their character, not the color of their skin" (or the choices of their love) is still very real in a lot of people's hearts.

:hug:

[Occulus]

32. But from what I hear from the black religious types

Including MLK's own kids, if I recall correctly when the gay marriage thing started, he wouldn't have stood behind us either!

If that's true, then what's the point in listening to MLK?

[dbt]

3. The first damn thing you do is REFUSE the fear.

Get up stand up. Dr. King died for you, too!

:bounce:
dbt

[BiggJawn]

4. Don't forget that 50% of the country does NOT hate you.

And just between you and me, the CCW ain't such a bad idea. I'm STR8, and I'm thinking about packing heat again...

[Occulus]

8. That's why I'm thinking about a CCW

that 50% you mentioned is invisible on the street. So is the other 50%. And gay people don't know about bashers until it's too fucking late for them.

[BiggJawn]

18. I'm losing trust in everybody.

I'm not worried about people hating me for whom I choose to love. Hell, the worst I ever got was called a "breeder" by a jerky-girl that nobody liked anyway.

But anyhow, I digress.

I think there could be trouble just because i'm "One-a them dam Liberal Commie fuckers..."

If it ever gets to be a "Krystallnacht" kind of society here, even straight Liberals won't be safe.

Everyone else should ponder that last statement, too.

[knowbody0]

6. be gay

be proud. your enemies are our enemies. take no shit

[Dukakis88]

7. Go have relations with someone of your own sex...

That would be the first thing I would do. I've always been curious.

[AlienGirl]

9. What is mlive.com?

Skittles and I should go kick their asses! :hi:

BTW, have you considered moving to Seattle? (We can have a pasty party together if you move here!)

Tucker

[Occulus]

10. news site with forums

Go there and take a look at the newstalk forum. It's listed at the top under "forums and chat".

[freetobegay]

11. Live life to the fullest

& take out the bigots one asshole at a time! (metaphorically speaking).

[Occulus]

14. But HOW?

How in the world do I do that if there's five of them and one of me?

You can only "fight the good fight" for so long, you know. I was apparently born only to suffer so that hateful bigot can have a convienient whipping boy.

My mom once told me, after she found out about me and all the punishments that entailed, that I had chosen a hard life.

Chosen?

That's how they feel about us: we chose this life. We chose to be gay, and we deserve to be punished for it. Is the first step convincing them that it's not a choice?

That would make their Bibles wrong. They won't accept that argument, no matter how many tens of thousands of gay people say they didn't choose to be gay. That doesn't matter. Nothing we say on the subject matters or will sway these people one little bit.

[freetobegay]

17. There is 100 of them to one of me

I manage. It can be hard, but I refuse to lie down & take their crap!

[AlienGirl]

23. I know it's hard...

Your mom is, unfortunately, under-educated and a product of her environment. It sucks, but it doesn't mean anything about you.

I wish you were here so we could commiserate IRL.

Tucker

[amazona]

42. well here's my suggestions for what to do FWIW

I'd move to an area with where I could build community. I'd break off contact with family members who said I was going to Hell -- I mean, that is just plain rude. I would get awareness and crime prevention training -- as a woman, I always have to be aware of the possibility that someone might attack me because he thinks I'm asking for it, it's just part of life that isn't going to change in my lifetime so you just develop your awareness and go ahead and live your life to the best of your ability.

As far as your scenario of "what if there's five of them and one of me," a relative of mine was a victim of a home invasion, where multiple men attacked her, so I realize it happens. But you get frozen if you live your life always expecting the worst. Get proper gun training if you really feel you need it, get treatment for anxiety if you really feel you you need that, and stop worrying about what bigots think. You won't change a bigot's mind. You just have to wait for the old bigots to die off and hopefully less young bigots are born with each new generation. Meanwhile, you are entitled to go ahead and enjoy your life whether the bigots approve of you or not.

[kcwayne]

13. Move someplace like San Franciso where there is more acceptance

If you really feel like a target, get out of the line of fire, or be prepared to fire back.

[Occulus]

22. "Just move" is very, very easy to say

but the only way I can even consider it is if I'm willing to default my credit card and quit my job. Asking for a transfer to another state in the postal service is like sending up a prayer.

GODDAMMIT, I HAD WORTH!!! I was composing when I was thirteen years old, for fuck's sake! I *was* an incredibly talented musician before it all got crushed out of me with anti-gay bigotry- from my own family!!!

How the FUCK can I possibly have any hope at all? Nobody wants what I have to offer, even if I have something of worth, because I'm a "fucking homo pervert child molestor faggot"!

I had to deal with years of being told "be yourself and people will like you" and being told "people don't like you because you're different and you'll just have to change or ignore it"- from the same damn people, at the same time!!! So how the hell do I reconcile that with what's just happened?

[AlienGirl]

25. Can you quit the PS in one state and re-apply in another?

How about applying to college in another state and (I know it sucks but) living off student loans for a while? Or temporarily taking a lower-paying job to re-establish yourself in the new place?

I've made the cross-country jump a few times. These are just some ideas.

Tucker (sending spooky waves of Seattleness at you!)

[Occulus]

34. I'd lose all my seniority

and have to go to the "fuck you we'll work you whenever we want" work scedule. I also would lose paid holidays and half my vacation time and sick leave.

[amazona]

43. ok it is tough to give up a postal service job

I know in my area that people cling to those jobs very tenaciously, because they are excellent jobs when you have the seniority.

[kcwayne]

35. Whining about how there is no way you can accomplish anything

won't help you get to where you want to be.
In all of your posts on this thread I have read you keep repeating the same refrain that you have no hope, and everything is stacked against you, and there is no way out.

Life is tough, I presume you know that. This sounds like a time in your life where you have to find a way to take those things that are defeating you and either learn to live with them, correct them, or escape them.

There is no advice that will be meaningful to you if you have already reached the decision that all is hopeless. Nothing is easy, but doing nothing will leave you in exactly the same place you are now. The world will not change around you, you have to change to the world.

You have to choose which pain is worse, taking action, or doing nothing. Good luck.

[Occulus]

40. " The world will not change around you, you have to change to the world."

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to do. I've gotten exactly nowhere. In fact, I've gotten punished for even bothering to try- because of "what" I am.

You have to understand- I don't have a whole lot of drive to try left. My gas tank is almost empty, so to speak. Every single good thing I've done to "change the world" has made my own life, personally and financially, worse.

How in hell can anyone expect me to keep trying to "do the right thing" when doing exactly that has only made me worse off?

[booksenkatz]

15. One of my best friends is gay and he says that

he has NEVER felt more in fear for his life... and he lives in Georgia, for God's sake! He knows something about fearing for one's life. (He recently had "FAG" spray painted on his truck, so he added his own painted words, "AND PROUD OF IT!") I let him cry on my shoulder for 2 hours Wed. night. (I would normally cry with him, but I haven't cried all week and am not sure if I'm ever going to be able to cry again.) He kept screaming, "What the fuck am I supposed to do?" I told him that he could come live up here in a blue state, but shit, my beloved blue state of Michigan officially shit on my gay friends, too, Tuesday night. I did apologize to him on behalf of all heteros in this country. I am so ashamed.

One thing I do know. I will NOT reach out to, nor will I compromise with, any organization or government that wants my gay friends to be second-class citizens and/or dead. I've marched for gay rights before and I won't quit fighting now. It's time to go Monkey Wrench Gang on these fuckers. No quarter.

[ronnykmarshall]

37. I know how he feels.

My partner and I have been so depressed. We are so lucky that we live in West Hollywood, but that doesn't make it any better.

I felt like I had my guts ripped out Tuesday night.

God help ANY of my friends or relatives that voted for that mother fucker and try and start shit with me.

Luckly I don't plan on seeing my one cousin and her husband this holiday season. I don't think my partner would be able to contain himself if my cousins husband says any smart ass remarks.

IMO - Their votes for Bush are nothing less than a "fuck you" to me. They don't get it and like I said they better stand back and get ready for a shit storm from me if they attempt to gloat. I'm not above telling them to fuck off and leave. I know Michael would do the same.

With that in mind, I think my mom is planning x-mas with just us anyway.

[FunBobbyMucha]

16. Not that there aren't lots of Fundy fucks out there, but

I would give at least half of those ballot initiatives the following perspective: I know a lot of Reddies who don't necessarily hate gays, and don't think government should be in people's lives like that, but part of the argument used in their circles is that gay marriage will be an "easy" way to cheat the system when it comes to health care coverage, etc. Their concerns are more about their insurance premiums than homophobia. Not that I justify their gullibility or hypocricy, but that lie is a larger part of the iniative's defeat than has been reported.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Ummm.....okay. Doesn't straight marriage also "cheat" the system?

[FunBobbyMucha]

31. Exactly.

But these blinders come down when their hypocricy and inconsistency is pointed out. Like when I point out that "highly moral" Fox is the same comglomerate that produced the legal prostitution show "Who wants to marry a millionaire," a show that "harms the sanctity of marriage" much more than Adam & Steve.

I'm just trying to support our gay friends here and suggest that the homophobia might not be as widespread as elections suggest. Not that that is much of a concelation.

[kayell]

47. My impression from dealing with people like that is that they say

they don't mind gays in the same way they used to (or stil do) say they don't mind blacks. They have nothing against us so long as we stay in our places.

For gay males, that means being rather quaint and picteresque hairdressers and decorators who just love to talk trash with their rich female clients who aren't listened to by hubbie. Other than that you should merely be that couple that they use to prove that they are tolerant, by occasionally inviting you to their more daring functions, where they can introduce you as their gay friends. But never ever have the audacity to demand anything else, because you are certainly not entitled to be more than entertainment for their lives.

I haven't figured out what my officially assigned place as a lesbian is in their reality, probably because it consists entirely of being invisible.

[terrya]

19. Don't blame yourself. I made that mistake last night.

And it was the stupidest, most cowardly fucking thing I ever posted on here.

Don't blame yourself. Period.

[MrChupon]

20. Get a passport

You are a Jew in 1932 Germany.

Hell I got one and I'm straight but I'm worried they'd come after me for supporting gay rights.

[tandot]

24. Remember that way over 55 Mio people voted for Kerry

and that over 40% of eligible voters did NOT vote, many of them young people. In essence, only about 31% of all eligible voters voted for Bush. The rest voted for Kerry or didn't vote.

Rove and Bush fired up their right-wing fundamentalist base and scared the heck out of "security moms" ... they do NOT reflect what America is all about.

And remember that each of those hateful bigots has a family member or friend who is gay (most of them are too afraid to come out of the closet).

Sooner or later people will recognize that these fundamentalists are driven by deep seated hate, ignorance, and bigotry. And sooner or later those gay family members and friends will stand up, come out, and refuse to be associated with these demented and hateful hypocrites.

America is becoming more and more progressive and liberal. Fundamentalists feel it and are scared about having to think for themselves and take responsibility. Their vote for Bush was their last uprising. They fought hard and with all they had to impose their will on the rest of the country. But they can't stop progress. There is no way in hell they can drag America back into the Dark Ages. In a few years, they'll be a dying breed. There are many more people who do not think like them, some of them just didn't vote.

Hate never wins in the long run. Love is stronger than hate.

[Occulus]

27. For me, well, I've SEEN the long run, and

the "long run" totally crushed out everything I thought I had to offer. It wasn't because I gave up- when my father left me standing homeless on the side of the road and drove off with a smile and a wave, I didn't quit school- I slept under trees instead, went to classes, and showered in dorms I didn't live in when the RA's weren't looking.

Then I moved back home, to be told I didn't deserve help with my education anymore.

I kept my chin up for as long as I could.... all through my childhood, when the people around me who weren't "band fags" (there's that word again) were telling me I'd never amount to anything. Telling me I was worthless.

So I tried harder, and harder, and harder, until repeated failure, rejection, hatred, and bigotry made me finally see the light: I was working for exactly nothing as far as these people are concerned.

I still didn't give up until my own parents betrayed me for the second time.

How can I NOT give up now??

[tandot]

29. You can't give up. We still would have slavery if people would have given

up. You can't do that.

You can't let a few ignorant people decide what your future will be. Even if they are your parents. Remember the people who love and support you. Draw your strength from them. Find support groups.

:hug:

[Occulus]

30. but they now have permission

to TARGET those support groups. Violently.

Going into a support group, for me, now, is a lot like holding up a sign saying "WE'RE ALL GAY- YOU CAN FIREBOMB US!!"

Isn't it counterproductive for the targets to group together with other targets? Doesn't that just make us.... a bigger target???

[queerart]

26. You Framed The Picture Beautifully My Friend.......

It comes down to the real fact of "safety in numbers" (or groups if you will)..........

Like other minorities.... simply look after our own, as the counrty has made it crystal clear what they think of Queers!

It's Ok to use Fags for the vote, and to line their pockets with cash.... But don't you fucking even ask for rights.... as you don't deserve them!

We need to look out for our own first, and foremost!

I am sick when I think of the Gay youth.....

They will kill themselves in record numbers......

[Occulus]

28. and the fundies will shout "God is great"

when they hear about each and every one of them!

[2bfree]

33. Bless your heart............

I told a lesbian friend yesterday that she and other gay Americans are becoming the new "Jews" (like in Nazi Germany). When the political atmosphere is like it is these days you know that bigotry will become more common place and that the next step will be to start having laws regulating their behavior. I hang my head in shame to be an American during these time. Hang tight and know you are not alone.

[Q3JR4]

36. What happens when you get kicked, fucked over, and shat on?

You pick up the pieces and move on.

Don't surround yourself with bottled hatred and mindless bigotry. Both will only serve to push you into depression and hatred of yourself. If you can, get out. Leave those who would oppress you behind.

It is hard and all the battle scars make us weary, but when we fight we do so not just for ourselves. We fight for everyone who is afraid to come out. We fight the next generation of gays and lesbians that will come after us. We fight for the freedom of self expression, the freedom of speech, the freedom to be who we are, and most importantly, the freedom to love. Do what you need to to take care of yourself. While you are on your sabatical, there are others of us who will take up the slack.

We can't give up, ever. They may have won this round, may even win more rounds to come, but the war is still being fought. As time progresses, those that support us grow in number.

It may seem hopeless, but as brothers we stand together as part of the first wave of defense. Other Dems have seen our line and have watched it grow. Some of them have joined us. Now, other parts of this nation are walking towards us, they too are heading the call to take up the mantle that will once and for all end our repression.

When the last battle is fought and the last axe falls, it is we who will be the victors. Not because we are better funded, or because we've teamed up with the majority party. It will be simply because we are right.

[sundog]

45. that was amazing

wow--thanks :)

[Ladyhawk]

38. I totally feel your pain and anger, kgfnally.

I'm aghast at the laws that were passed and the attitude of some so-called "DUers." They do not represent my feelings. Fuck them.

[Occulus]

44. It's not just the laws, Ladyhawk

This has been building up for a long, loooong time. Ever since the mid to late '80s, at least. I think it started when gay people were the first ones affected by HIV, and then it spread to the heterosexual population. Since str8 people never ever fuck the same gender, well, we just had to have given it to them somehow, right? /sarcasm

And since then, we've been blamed to the point that a LOT of people feel we deserve to have this disease ourselves. Religion is another wedge in that pie. Case in point: my parents never went to church but for weddings and funerals when I was growing up, but once they found out I was gay, my mom decided to throw the Bible at me too. Along with everything else.

Yes, I know it was only an excuse for her hatred toward gay people. To this day she says she did what she did because I lied to her about being gay. In all fairness, I did lie about- after being told when I was thirteen or fourteen that the only thing we could ever do to them would for my sister to either "bring home a black guy" or for me to tell her I was gay.

My sister now has three mixed-race children that my mom lovingly dotes on. By contrast, she hasn't been into any place I've lived more than fifteen times in the last decade, in spite of my reaching out, trying to be decent, trying to keep my dignity.

And now, this thing has passed. I just don't see trying to work with the people who want to grind us out of existence as beneficial to me in any way. If that's true, it also means I have to be a rude asshole to a huge number of people, something I've never been able to pull off.

So what can I do? How do I and others like me go about it? How can I fight for this when I just don't know how after being shoved into the mud for so damn long? Nothing I've done before seems to have worked... is being a cold hard-hearted bastard- which I would see as selling a measure of my soul- really worth a grudging sliver of dignity, a crumb of respect?

Must I sink to swim?

[amazona]

39. don't reach out to jerks, stay strong

I don't know where you live, but in some areas, a CCW and the proper training might not be a bad idea.


How do I "reach out" to people who want me to suffer, who want me to be punished, and who would like to be the punisher?

You don't and shouldn't reach out to the religiously insane. Ignore and avoid them where you can and, if they get in your face, you have the right to self-defense.


If someone who is supposed to care about you doesn't act caring, then you have the right as an adult not to interact with that person any more. Build community with people who are worth it, not with bigots.

[donheld]

41. Sweety give it some time

We here in Colorado have been through this before with "Colorado Amendment 2" google it for more information. We came out on top.

[mongo]

46. from one target to another

I hear ya. My wife and I own and operate a lingerie and erotic boutique.

We just got a new judge in the county that promises to "get tough on crime" and boasts that "a drop of alcohol has never passed his lips".

I can be charged with a felony for selling any movie in my inventory.

We get hate mail, and only one local radio station will take my advertising (which is quite tame and tasteful BTW)

So I know how you feel. People know who I am and if I am standing outside my store having a cig, I get comments yelled at me from passing cars.

What I really fear is that Obscenity laws will be ruled unconstitutional in the next 4 years (which in itself is a good thing), and then the fundies will take matters into their own hands and kill me or burn down my store.

I really do feel for gay people. Lots of times I have a customer browsing the gay section (as the only person in the store), and as soon as they hear the door chime they rush to another area in the store. I has to be hard being gay out here in Appalachia.

[Taverner]

49. I hate to sound like a freeper, but consider firearms

I'm pro gun, so this would be logical coming from me.

But consider the CCW license...unless you have kids in the house.

[Occulus]

50. Oops, I forgot

I'm on depression meds, so I probably can't qualify anyway. I think that's the case in Michigan, I'll have to check...

Crap. "The applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment." This from http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10926--,00.html . Does depression (diagnosed) qualify as a "mental illness"? I think it does....

Aw, shit. I can't even carry around a good long knife or baseball bat around here either. Christ, all this scares me something fierce....