My Daughter Went Through Hell Today...

[ScreamingMeemie]

...and survived. Whatever made me put her in a Catholic High School? Whatever made me think that Catholics (my own faith) were caring. Her school went 151 to 50 pro Bush yesterday...all because of Abortion and Homophobia. I couldn't help myself but say "they'll reap what they've sown" in front of my daughter's "friend" on the way home. Her "friend" was the ringleader of the group giving her a hard time...all in the name of Christ mind you...I wonder how much they'll be laughing when BushCo puts a gun in their hands and an identifying tag around their necks.

My fellow DUers, today I have also lost my Catholic Faith. Today, I sent an email telling our "sainted" Cardinal Maida to F off. Today, my church became my family.

[ET Awful]

1. Sadly, many of those id tags will migrate frome their necks to their toes

and they will have an opportunity to discuss their choice with their god first hand.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. ...and I hope they don't come crying to me. I'm writing them off. No one

can be this stupid. :hi:

[Nite Owl]

2. I feel for ya

I am a Catholic too. Even through college. The Church is what laid all the moral basis for my being a liberal today. They left me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Mine as well, and I have gotten into many an argument with agnostic and

atheist friends...now there is nothing left there to back me up.

[Dem Agog]

3. This happened to me..

In a "Christian" school when Carter lost to Reagan...

I think my Dad lost a bit of his Christian faith then, and a lot more of it later on.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. Amazing how much the people of any given church can start blessing

politicians and annointing "chosen ones". I thought that was God's work.

[snacker]

4. same with my daughter

but at a public school. She wore her K/E pin and kids came up to her asking her why she would kill a baby. What a screwed up, intolerant world we live in!

[Blue Gardener]

27. So it's okay for the little babies in Iraq to die in our war?

How screwed up is that logic?

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. They were telling my daughter she could move to France with JK, cuz

they had no use for her. Tomorrow, I fear public stoning...

[bleedingheart]

5. Same thing happened to me as well. The church no longer

represents me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. Right now, it's all about my family. They are my church. I cannot believe

the money the Catholic Church spent for brochures regarding the marriage ammendment. They are supposed to be in "financial trouble". Perhaps kickbacks?

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. I feel the same way.

I really don't want to give up on my faith, but it's just so damn yough these days.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. That's it in a nutshell. But I think who is the Catholic Church and it's

misguided followers to judge me and my daughters...that's between me and God the last time I checked. It's good to know I'm not alone.

[AmandaRuth]

7. oh Mrs. I feel for you and I feel for your daughter

We will get through this. I am dreading when my daughter comes home from school, she too has been battling - her school runs 40-60, boosh, and alot are that mean fundy type. Love peace and understanding to you and yours. We will need to fight for our future.

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. Thank you luv...our poor little ones. They stand up for what they

believe in only to be stoned with words. In the words of a dear friend, just because you lose, doesn't mean you aren't right. :hug:

[classof56]

8. I am so sorry that your daughter was subjected to such ugliness,

especially from her fellow Catholic students. This kind of behavior is reprehensible and un-Christlike beyond comprehension. I share your loss of faith after the events of these last few months. I too have decided to no longer attend church. My faith will now be between me and God. He is worthy of my faith and trust. My fellow Christians are not, and are no longer worthy of my time, either.

Speaking of God--may he help us all!!

Tired Old Cynic

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. The Who Would Jesus Bomb sticker is never coming off my car.

Perhaps this is a good thing...what happened to my daughter today. I only wish I could save her the pain.

[Not Me]

9. I was excommunicated from the RC church in 1998

There are much more fulfilling venues to explore and exercise your faith. Especially if you are in an urban area.

And, just for grins, go out and rent the movie "Saved!".

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. You haven't missed much.

Thanks orlando...and I will check that out. I told our Cardinal to "excommunicate my ass"....:hug:

[MidwestMomma]

50. I would pay money to see his face when he reads your letter...

I feel you pain. My nephew who goes to a Catholic school was in tears yesterday because of his harassment at school for supporting the 'baby killer' Kerry. (Still can't believe that they actually said that to him.)

What has happened to this country and our Church?

I told my sister yesterday that one of the saddest thing about what is going on is that I'm starting to hate God. I know it's not his/her fault but I am completely done with organized religion.

I feel very bitter and betrayed right now, so if I have offended any of the good and kind religious people on this board, I apologize.

[Gardeaux08]

91. Beat you!!!

I was excommunicated in 1988! I went to Catholic school for 12 years and I can tell you, I shed that dogma like a bad skin.

MrsGrumpy, I am so sorry that your daughter had to endure such nastiness today. I know first hand how it feels when you need your faith to help you through a tough time, and not only is it not there for you, but it is the source of your tough time.

[Dudley_DUright]

10. Welcome to the "Lapsed Catholic" club Mrs. G

I left the church many years ago over those same issues (among many others). It is sad to remember that in 1960, Catholics were actually excited to vote for JFK. This time the current JFK did not do so hot with his "fellow" Catholics.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. This is the second time, and I won't make the same mistake again.

The Catholic Church sold out to the fundies. Wait till they find out how much they're wanted post election. :hi:

[DrZeeLit]

84. Oh no... not lapsed... COLLAPSED... it's the "beyond lapsed club"....

and I'm in it, too.

However, just so you know... many of my Catholic friends broke ranks and voted for Kerry. To them, Kerry is a Catholic and they understand.

Sadly, that's not the majority, which is why I'm so far gone.

I completed a Vision Quest last summer. When I was alone on the desert, I FELT whatever presence we might be called to name god, power, universe, love, light -- not sure what to call it. I just felt the something holding me. And it didn't have a church or rules or an agenda or judgements or a book or a plan.

I was held. The container fits everyone, everything.

You are held, too.

[Phillycat]

11. You haven't lost your faith, you've lost your connection to your church.

Your faith is between you and God. God is still there, it's the humans you are telling to FUCK OFF. And rightfully so.

:hug: to you and your family Mrs Grumpy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. True...true...Thank you so much janesez.

:hug:

[Misunderestimator]

12. I love you MrsGrumpy. I love how deeply you believe in what's right

despite your own religion. I sincerely wish that more people could have your outlook and vision. And I'm sorry for any suffering your child must endure, though she will be a better person with a mother such as you. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. You all here help me on a daily basis. To examine my bias against

my fellow human. To see what's right and act on it. Without the strength I've drawn from you I wonder where I'd be somedays. I also owe a lot to my daughter. She is a champion of what is right.

:hug: Laura :loveya:

[patrice]

13. I miss the Mass terribly. But I've had nothing to do with

"the Church" for about 10 years now.

They are in error. They've traded their calling as ministers of Christ for power.

They are raising a bunch of fascists.

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. The tradition is wonderful...the hypocrisy is too much to take.

Judge not went out the window I fear. And you're completely and sadly right.

:hi:

[ze_dscherman]

14. Faith and church

I hope you'll soon find out that you don't need organized religion to find answers to your spiritual needs.

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. I'm learning that the hard way.

I am grateful for DU. :hi:

[DELUSIONAL]

15. religion sucks

My mom forced me to go to a religious school --

in fact I was at that school when John F. Kennedy was shot -- I've never seen so many joyful "christians" in my life.

religion sucks

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. It's a very scary thing when religion goes so wrong. Did your mom

remove you afterward? I am pretty sure we've seen the last of the hallways of Cardinal Mooney as soon as I can get transfer sheets.

[July]

104. Cardinal Mooney -- Florida?

My cousin's kids go/went there.

Sorry for your daughter's tough days. She is the better person.

[ScreamingMeemie]

133. Michigan.

Thank you so much July. :hi:

[wryter2000]

16. Don't give up on God

There's another church for you. Try the Episcopals.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. I haven't given up on God. That I promise wryter. I've given up on

"Catholics". To think I defended them and said they were smarter than that.

[Reciprocity]

17. Recovering Baptist here.

Going to church no more makes you a Christian, than standing in a garage makes you a car. Keep faith with Christ, and distrust all others. Christ is like pornography, you know him when you see him. If this were not true, why would all Christians need the Holy Spirit? Listen to that quit voice to guide you through these troubled waters.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. MrG is my example of goodness and he has not once set foot in a church

of his own volition. Thank you Reciprocity. :hug:

[Reciprocity]

58. Okay lets make that quiet instead of quit.

I bet you get this question allot.
Did you wake up Grumpy this morning?
No I let him sleep.

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. I'm kind of giggling..for the first time to day. And I owe it to you. I

did not notice that when I read your post. Thanks again, for making me smile. :hug:

[Reciprocity]

62. Anytime.

Being a Texas democrat in the black heart of the bible belt, you learn some copping mechanisms or you get assimilated. In time you and yours will find your path through these dark times.

Worlds most dangerous creature.
Move your Mouse out of your Browser Window
and back in again repeatedly.
http://www.toilet-humor.net/cartoon.html

[Divernan]

18. My daughter was target of bullies in Catholic school at age 7!

As the shy "new kid" transferring in from the south, she was targeted by this little bitch whose mother was president of the Altar/Rosary society or whatever it was called, and a parish VIP. This went on for months, even in front of me at a Brownie party where my daughter was sent nasty Valentines! I hoped that things would simmer down over the summer (and my daughter had made lots of neighborhood friends among the public school kids). Long story short, come Fall, I asked the nun/teacher just to please keep an eye on the situation and to let me know if there were any problems. My daughter came home in tears. Little Bitch had started a "club". Anyone could belong who didn't speak to my dtr. So none of the little girls did - all day long. No word from sainted nun to me about this. I was so furious, I enrolled her in public school the next day, and told the office there to contact the Catholic school for her records because I didn't trust myself not to curse out the nun.

My Dad & brother went to Notrre Dame. I went to Catholic schools from first grade through college (Marquette). I eventually went to a state university for grad school and between that and voracious reading, learned how narrow and slanted a worldview I had been given at the Catholic schools. Christian principles are great to live by - and I try to - but I do it without benefit of formal religious practices. My daughter, by the way, flourished in public schools - has a bachelor's degree and 2 master's and is a very successful, insightful & delightful human being. The one advantage of having been bullied, is that she has great empathy for human suffering. And of couse, she is a liberal.

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. You did something really right Divernan...and I hope I can follow

that example. I hope Little Bitch reaps what she has sown. :hug:

[eleny]

19. I "retired" from Catholicism years and years ago

It's been quite refreshing ever since to make up my own mind about everything. Take care and hugs for your {{{kid}}}.

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. Thank you so much eleny!

:hug: She's a tough nut...tougher than I. It was very hard to have her "friend" in our house this afternoon. I tried hard to be the better person.

[Maddy McCall]

20. Love ya, MrsGrumpy.

Is there any way you can take her out of the Catholic School and either home school her or find another school?

You are brave and ballsy! I've always like that about you. :-)

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. That means worlds to me coming from you jchild! I draw a lot of my

strength from you and my fellow DUers. You are the best. We're thinking of returning to public. The schools are not bad here, and the scholarship just isn't worth being "assimilated" into the new Catholic way of thinking/judging.

:loveya:

[Borgnine]

21. I've declared myself an atheist today.

I still believe in the spirtual world. I believe there is a higher power. But it's impossible to know anything. So, in protest of the "moral votes" cast yesterday, I'm switching from agnostic to atheist.

Come get me, Ashcroft.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. I'm sure the "handbasket" is big enough for us all.

I won't see any of my people tread upon, and that's just what the Catholic church did today.

[CO Liberal]

The Way I Figure It....

...if God was truly all-powerful and all-knowing, He would not have assholes like Falwell, Robertson, and Dobson speaking for Him.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Is There Any Other Reasonable Option for School?

This isn't going to just go away in a few days. This stolen election
isn't going to heal the divisions in our country. It will probably
get worse. Can you get her out of there and into another school?

Notwithstanding what the Pope says, the Catholic church in America
seems to have turned into a subsidiary of Bushco/GOP/theDominion.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. Yes there is. I'll be talking with the public high school principal

tomorrow. Screw the scholarship. It's not worth my daughter's soul.

[AndyTiedye]

78. Ostricism is a Standard Brainwashing Technique

and the school does regard it as their mission to make your daughter
a nice Republican Catholic.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

23. Welcome to Lutheranism... the sane alternative.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. Missouri or Wisconsin synod? I've thought of this. My father was

raised Lutheran and converted to marry my mom.

Thanks WJMS! :hug: And Peace be with you as well.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

82. ELCA

Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. I was born and raised in the Wisconsin Synod and, frankly, there're about one big vat full of Kool-aid shy of full-blown cult status. My uncle refuses to buy Girl Scout cookies from my daughter because he feels that scouting is immoral.

The Missouri Synod is light years ahead, but they still disciplined (maybe even defrocked) a minister who took part in an ecumenical prayer service at Yankee Stadium after 9/11 because he was consorting with non-believers. I kid you not -- Google for it and you can find the article.

The ELCA is the most liberal wing of Lutheranism -- I've been in three congregations since my college days and all three have had warm, kind liberal pastors.

Welcome home...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

93. ELCA here too. Missouri Synod is pretty strict, the main

difference is they do not believe there is any room for modern interpretation of the Bible, and ELCA does.

I think that is the ... no wait, they do not ordain women either, IIRC.

Those are the 2 main differences.

[JVS]

95. Here is an editorial about Benke

http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110004275

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

96. Jebus!

Intolerant and Hypocritical. There's a good combination for you!

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

83. ...and also with you!

[fishnfla]

24. Some of the priests at my Catholic school were pedophiles

knew 2 at my Jesuit colleges as well, (none of them in the carnal way). They preyed on the weaker boys. The ones who werent predators all left the priesthood

Great way to get back at my freeper mom:

"Hey ma, how much tuition did you pay to expose your 5 sons to anal rape?"

"hey ma, when your friend MrsX seduced FatherY, was he a virgin, you think?"

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. I have the feeling they sold themselves to get monetary help for all

the mess their pedophile priests have gotten them into.

[nini]

25. thankfully the priests etc.. I know are all liberal

don't lose faith.. find the right parish. There are real Catholics out there - those you describe are just hyprocrits.

[ScreamingMeemie]

55. You lucky thing. But there seems to be a groundswell of hate here

in Michigan parishes. It's frightening.

[nini]

66. sorry to hear that

It took me a while to settle on the parish I did. It's actually not in the town I live in .. but not too far. A very diverse, poor community, but the best people and a young liberal priest who likes tequila shots!! LOL

I love this priest - he is why I settled there. He lives what it's all about.

good luck.

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. That sounds great, nini. We have a "wet behind the ears" priest who

is only interested in furthering himself within the Church. He actually called Bishop Gumbleton (arrested for protesting with A.N.S.W.E.R. the week before the war) a crackpot...and thus ended my days on Pastoral Council.

[THUNDER HANDS]

26. your name is quite apropos today

We're all Mrs Grumpy today. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. You said it...I'll share it.

Thanks Magic Rat. :hug:

[antigone382]

47. I didn't even go to college today

I just couldn't face it. I fought too hard in the face of too many B*sh supporters, and it's just too depressing.

Then, on top of that I come here and see all the posts about "lazy kids who didn't vote." I know people are angry, so I can't be too angry at them for finding someone to blame, it just sucks when you're one of those "lazy kids," and you know you worked your ass off.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. For all that you did, I raise a glass to you. I am so glad there are

people behind me willing to fight the fight. Together we'll muddle through. There are a lot of active kids...and we love you!!! :hug:

[antigone382]

61. Thanks MrsGrumpy...I love you, and your daughter too.

...and for that matter everybody on DU :grouphug:


I know it has to be ten times as hard on her, still being in school, as it is on me in college. She has a lot more guts than I did in school, and you can tell her that she has all my respect.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. She didn't want to go to school today, and I had to give her a pep

talk through tears. I told her to tell those "children" that she'll talk to them after graduation when they've all signed up to serve in the war they so vehemently support...
...she's tougher than me too.

:pals:

[flordehinojos]

49. I think I kow just how you feel ... the Catholic church's stand in these

elections has been beyond incomprehensible to me. This is what a Roman Catholic Bishop wrote in reply to an e-mail I had sent him:

"The current Pope has moved the RC church back into the 15th century, and I don't see any hope for change for another 50-100 years.

Keep the faith and remember, the Church is NOT God. The people are....

Pax Christi,"

....

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. If we could only bring that level of sanity and clarity back to all of our

church leaders. :hug:

[jakefrep]

63. I skipped Theology on Tap tonight...

..too many GOP cafeteria Catholics who place the random and arbitrary edicts of underemployed Vatican bureaucrats above the teachings of Christ.

I feel for you and your daughter. Maybe she should seek out the 50 sane kids who chose Kerry.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. That's what I told her. She came home and said that at least now she

knew who her friends were. One girl (whom I've given quite a few rides to) was screaming "BUSH BUSH BUSH" right in my baby's ear.

[CO Liberal]

64. I Was Raised Catholic

Since my parents enrolled my sisters and me in public school (thankfully), I was sent to Sunday School. I'll never forget my first class, back in September of 1959. The nun stood in front of the class and said "Everyone in this room is a Catholic. If you're good all your life, you can get into Heaven. PROTESTANTS can't get into Heaven - JEWS can't get into Heaven - only good Catholics can get into Heaven." And so began my Catholic education...

In 1962, my family decided to open our home to a Cuban refugee - my foster brother, who got out of Cuba during the 1962 Airlift. Richard came to live with us right after school ended - that fall, my parents enrolled him in parochial school, because we had gotten him through Catholic Charities.

Each day, Richard came home with his clothes torn - the result of a fight. And when my mother went to the school to complain to Sister Virginia (the principal), she would just fold her arms and say "And your children go to public school?" And did nothing.

Years later, I made friends with someone who had been in the same class as Richard. He told me that the nuns had told them that all Cubans were communists, and didn't deserve to live. And that's why he was getting into fights every day.

Eventually, I had enough with the Catholic Church - I left the Church in 1977, and never looked back.

[ScreamingMeemie]

70. That is an awful story...I hope it didn't scar Richard for life.

Catholicism is so hard to shake.

[CO Liberal]

75. Nope - Richard Turned Out Fine

This is gonna be a long post, but I feel I have to tell you Richard's Story:

Before he came to live with us in June of 1962, his parents had kept him out of school for two years after Castro turned the schools into communist schools. So while he was two years older than me, we were both in Fourth Grade.

All the time he was enrolled in that Catholic school, my mother would BEG the principal to have Richard tested to see if he could be advanced. And every time, Sister Virginia would cross her arms and say "And your children go to public school, right?" To which my mother would say "Yes - thank GOD!!!"

:-)

The next year, my parents decided to enroll Richard in the same school as me. When the social worker came to conduct one of his regular visits, my mother told him of their plans - he said that was the best thing for Richard, since the parochial schools in the area were not as good as the public schools.

Shortly after Richard and I started Fifth Grade, the principal of our school (Dr. Robertson) ordered that he be fully tested to determine his abilities. So once a week, Richard was taken out of class and given a test. Just before Christmas break, Richard came home with a note from Dr. Robertson - they were promoting Richard to Sixth Grade!

Then in January of 1964, my father got a phone call from the social worker. He and my mother went in their bedroom to talk for a while, and when they came out, they told us that Richard would be leaving us at the end of the school year to go live with his aunt and uncle, who had managed to get out of Cuba.

That June, Richard left us. And then we learned the truth about that phone call - Richard's parents and one of her uncles (who had been on Cuba's last Olympic swim team), had been caught trying to escape from Cuba. His mother was sentenced to six years in prison, his father to ten, and his uncle (since he was a celebrity in Cuba) was sentenced to fourteen years in one of Castro's rat-infested prisons.

Richard moved to Fort Lauderdale to join his aunt and uncle, and several of his cousins. And he was advanced another grade, so he was finally back with his age group. They all eventually moved to Portland, Oregon, and in the Late '70s, Richard's parents were released from prison and were reunited with their son.

When Richard was old enough, he enlisted in the Army and served in Korea - he always said he felt it was the least he could do for the country that had given him freedom. He got married and had two daughters.

And every year on Christmas Day while they were still alive, Richard would call my parents and thank them for opening their home to him. No, Richard wasn't scarred for life - he turned out OK.

[ScreamingMeemie]

76. Great story!!! Thanks for taking the time to tell it.

Your Mom and Dad sound like they were wonderful people. :)

[CO Liberal]

121. They Were

Lifelong Democrats, who taught me and my sisters to think for ourselves.

[Nightowl_2004]

67. Sorry to hear that. The Kerry crowd at my school were hanging in there....

It was a rough day...

[ScreamingMeemie]

71. Good for you guys. A toast to you!

:toast: We'll keep fighting the good fight!

[IronLionZion]

68. Don't leave because of those assholes

I grew up in an extreme right-wing Republican Catholic town. Those bastards would call me a baby killer for supporting Gore...but they supported Tom Ridge, Arlen Specter, and many other prominent pro-choice republicans.

Catholics are supposed to care about people, hence they should support Democrats. I was about ready to leave the church until I went to college. I now go to a very progressive Catholic church that encourages loving all God's children and caring about the less fortunate and so on.

[ScreamingMeemie]

72. I'm topsy turvy about it. There used to be so much good, but the

archdioceses seems intent on pumping up the hatred here in Detroit. :( It's good to know it's not the same everywhere. :hi:

[brook]

77. It's not the "Church" per se...

It's the defective representatives of the "Church". Jesus would throw them out in a New York minute (if he weren't so busy elsewhere). I'm a "fallen away" Catholic. In theology classes I told them that confession was a joke - I saw no need for a middleman - I could talk to God myself - and that I thought celibates doing marriage counselling was ludicrous - etc. They finally called my mother and told her not to send me to class anymore.

I had insisted on leaving Catholic school in 8th grade - in my mind, I needed to meet people with other beliefs.

Conversely, I put my daughter in Catholic H.S. - because the public school was appalling. Fortunately, it was Immaculate Heart in LA - where the nuns had renounced Rome for their treatment of women and gave a glorious education to their students...all female. If you've ever seen any artwork of Sister Corita Kent, you have some idea of what IH was like then.

Keep the faith, Mrs. Grumpy - your way. And give your daughter a hug for me.

[SarahB]

74. I can't say what is right for another.

All I can say is that a little over three years ago, I came to a point where I asked myself, "How can I stay in a faith and have my children taught in a faith where I disagree with so many things that is taught within that faith?" We left the Catholic Church. I had a Protestant background as well, so we went to a Methodist Church for awhile. That church began to lead extremely conservative as well over the past couple of years. We no longer go and I'm not sure with our marriage stuff where we will go, but it's not together. Probably I'll head to Unitarian services, but it seems silly now to start and try to look "big, fake, happy family", so I'm in religious limbo.

I do believe in Christ and feel like I am a Christian, but I have always been a Christian who looks at the message of what Christ taught rather than getting hung up on dogma, transubstantiation, whether his mom ever has sex, or any of that stuff. I found it irrelevant to Christ's teachings- which were really essentially like Buddha or any of the other great teachers- be a good person and treat other people well.

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Well said. I said a few posts up that MrG was my example of living

a decent life...and he's never been a church member. These are just tough times, and I never imagined this would happen on the day I signed her up. Catholics were never like this. Thanks so much. :pals: It's good to see you here today especially!

[Nikepallas]

80. Her strength is to your credit

I was once catholic but no longer. I feel organized faith will hurt this country. Look at it we have a religious war going on now BUT no one really says it. Oil is just a bonus reason.

[ScreamingMeemie]

81. It's good to see I am among good company.

:toast:

[Nikepallas]

87. I am honored with your words

:hug:

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

85. The good things about the faith, you'll always carry with you

I don't believe Jesus was divine, I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian God, and I'm basically agnostic. But I believe in the truth of these two statements:

- Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do to me.

- Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

I can believe that without being Catholic, or Christian, or anything but liberal.

Sorry 'bout your daughter...my parents gave me the choice of parochial or public high school and, having heard my older sister's account of the Catholic school, I jumped at the chance to attend the public. Teen girls are pissy, Catholics are even pissier, and Catholic teen girls...well, they're apparently the stuff of fantasy, but not if you've been one.

[ScreamingMeemie]

97. Right now, to me, Catholic school girls are little witches.

You know what they say about the minister's daughter. In my life's travels I have found more goodness through my relationships with agnostics and atheists than with those who sit next to me in Church on Sunday. I'm not condemning the whole church...it just feels that way right now. :hi:

[FreedomFry]

86. Right on, MrsG!

God is a concept. The Bible was written by men to keep the masses in check. So-called "holy men" have an awful lot to answer for.

I wish back-alley a abortion on every little girl who made your daughter's life hell. (That's mean, I know, but so are they, and a little rant now and then is a good thing.)

Your daughter will come out of this stronger because you gave her the courage to stick to her convictions in the face of mass (no pun intended) opposition.

[ScreamingMeemie]

98. Thanks Freedom! Your thoughts are very much the same as mine

are. I wonder how happy these people will be to see dead babies in garbage cans once they get their way.

[GreenPartyVoter]

88. *hugs* switch to the liberal catholic church

I have a link to it on my site.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[ScreamingMeemie]

99. Thanks GPV...I'm going to check into that.

:hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

136. *hugs back*

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Kat45]

89. There's a good group, "Catholics for Kerry," who will continue

their work as a group called "Catholic Democrats." Not all Catholics--or Christians--are wingnuts.

[ScreamingMeemie]

100. I had put a big old "Catholics for Kerry" sticker on my car hoping to

get through to some of the lunkheads. I only hope someone saw it and did the research as the Vatican encouraged them to. :hi:

[fortyfeetunder]

90. Good old Catholic Family values...not

Sounds like those good old Bush loving Catholics can't seem to separate policy from personality. I feel for Mrs. Grumpy's daughter as well as the other kids who were for Kerry all the way and have to suffer the taunts from these allegedly Christian people.

I thought I heard Kerry said something about healing and going forward. Are the Catholic schools teaching that today too?

[ScreamingMeemie]

101. Thanks fortyfeet...No the Catholic Church, at least mine, is into

judgement and damnation right now. :eyes:

Shame on them...I see no "healing" in sight.

[yardwork]

92. I'm very sorry.

I left the church some years ago and today I am glad to identify as a solitary Pagan. I feel as much or more in touch with God than ever in my life.

Jesus understands. He started a revolution against the established church of his faith and culture, because it was corrupt.

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. Just don't tell Catholics that. ;) They think he delights in their support

of bombing and oppression.

Thanks so much for replying. :hug:

[donheld]

94. Change The World

If I could reach the stars I'd pull one down for you
Shine it on my heart so you could see the truth
That this love I have inside is everything it seems
But for now I find it's only in my dreams

CHORUS:
That I can change the world
I would be the sunlight in your universe
You will think my love was really something good
Baby if I could change the world

If I could be king even for a day
I'd take you as my queen I'd have it no other way
And our love will rule in this kingdom we have made
Till then I'd be a fool wishin' for the day

CHORUS:
That I can change the world
I would be the sunlight in your universe
You will think my love was really something good
Baby if I could change the world
Baby if I could change the world



CHORUS:
That I can change the world
I would be the sunlight in your universe
You will think my love was really something good
Baby if I could change the world
Baby if I could change the world
Baby if I could change the world

[ScreamingMeemie]

103. One person at a time.

:thumbsup:

[arwalden]

105. Contents: One Hug. Directions: Apply Liberally. Use As Needed.

:hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

107. Today, very much needed. Thanks Allen. She went off today to face

the lions...Funny how we're the immoral and valueless ones. :hug:

[sniffa]

106. i'm sorry, but

good for you to keep fighting. :D

[ScreamingMeemie]

108. Thanks sniffa! I've drawn much more strength from all of you immoral

and valueless people than I could ever imagine...;) I mean, look at all of us commie pinkos actually caring!! :hug: You're the best.

[PhatPastored]

109. relax

"My fellow DUers, today I have also lost my Catholic Faith. Today, I sent an email telling our "sainted" Cardinal Maida to F off."

So let me understand - your daughter attends Catholic school by your choice, the school holds Catholic doctrine, and youre mad because the school did not conform to your doctrine, so you tell the cardinal to &%$#@!@%

Those are not "fruits" of a healthy spirit

they are a private school and can do what they want - besides - so can you -

Vote with your wallet

But swearing at a holy man is not a start IMO

[ScreamingMeemie]

110. Ahem. Swearing at an unholy man is a great start. Swearing at a man

who covered up for the pedophilia of priests in this state is acceptable. Judging one's brother is not Catholic doctrine where I come from...nor is making political pronouncements from the pulpit. No that's not why I sent my daughter there. I am off in search of true Christianity, not the false idols we've been given today. Yes, let's all get together and vote against our gay neighbor...it's what Jesus would want...seeing as he gave us the story of the Good Samaritan and all. /sarcasm off for that last part. You call it Catholicism...I call it bullshit. Peel the scales off, and welcome to DU.

[PhatPastored]

112. thanks for the welcome

all it bullshit.

plainly your anger with Catholicism goes way beyond what you first identify as the schools issue

what exactly is eating you?

fyi - im not a Catholic - Im a Free Methodist Pastor

[ScreamingMeemie]

114. It is the humiliation my daughter received from a group of people baptized

into a faith that upholds treating one's brother as one would treat themselves. That's it. End story. End game. Five years on Pastoral Council. Four on Education commission at her elementary school (also parochial) Time, treasure, talent and belief, only to find they are teaching judgement and not acceptance. I won't have my daughter learn to hate others for standing up for what they believe in. Where did Jesus ever tell us to follow blindly and lash out at those who disagree. :shrug:

[PhatPastored]

117. cheer up

Time, treasure, talent and belief, only to find they are teaching judgement and not acceptance. I won't have my daughter learn to hate others for standing up for what they believe in. Where did Jesus ever tell us to follow blindly and lash out at those who disagree.

the nice thing about God is that he uses your talents and gifts to confound whatever nonsense may be going on in the Church

IMO - we can be accepting of the sinner without imparting our own judgement on them. There is however - a point where the sinner has to confront his/her sins and reconcile them, before God - with Christ as the intercessor.

If you can get past the lack of magisterium, I would suggest a United Methodist Church.{

......but I dont want you to think that God has abandoned you -

there was a time not too long ago when I was that sinner and this Church accepted me as a gambler and drinker - If they hadn't, I'd likely be in a gutter by now.

My biggest frustration with the Catholic Church is the propensity to dispense Christ from the pulpit, when in fact you can have a meaningful personal relationship with Him through prayer, repentance and living in holiness as holy people

It works for some folks though, so I suppose God has a plan

kindly,

Ron

[ScreamingMeemie]

119. I haven't given up on God. Not in the least. I've given up on those

who would gladly use His words to bring misery to others. Thank you for your story Ron, my father in law was a life long alcoholic and it eventually took him.

Take care, Laura

[Reciprocity]

128. "what exactly is eating you" Back at you!

[PhatPastored]

134. hi

I dont understand what you are trying to imply - please explain

[burythehatchet]

111. No regrets MrsG

All is as it should be. You have a surrogate family here, but you already know that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

115. Thanks bury...and I used to be a message board cynic. You guys

changed my mind. :hug: Your words mean much.

[Bertha Venation]

113. i can't think of a single thing to say

"i'm sorry" sounds so hollow. your daughter and you are in my heart and thoughts, L. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

116. Thanks so much. What hurt was watching her face as she told me about

it. Yes, on the one hand I know that kids are kids...but to know that the teachers stood by while one girl yelled,"Bush! Bush! Bush! in her ear. To have been told by a teacher at the school during conferences that while "I am a Democrat myself, I think Nicole needs to tone down and blend in..." She, my daughter, is an inspiration to me. :hug:...and so are you and all who fight against those who would so gladly hate them out of unfounded fear.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

118. Think pragmatically: your daughter needs the best education she can get.

And going to a school where she's harassed all day long isn't going to help it. There's no guarantee that she can learn properly and get good scores (watch out for buishbotr teachers undergrading her!)

Is having completed high school in a public school SO damning in the USA? I very much doubt it.

Oh, and before I forget: :hug:

And now a question that doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything: does she enjoy music? What kind of music does she like?

[ScreamingMeemie]

120. We originally moved her from public because of a group of girls who

held sway over her and we found her drawing away from us and doing things she knew were wrong just to be "popular". She's a smart kid, and I do think the independent study of parochial elementary helped her to strengthen her character. She's a great kid.

She positively adores anything 80's. She's my girl in that respect. Think "Juke Box Hero" on down to the Thompson Twins and she's there.

Thanks so much for replying.

:hug: Laura

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

124. I PM'd you a feeble attempt at cheering her up (nt)

[ScreamingMeemie]

129. I am sure it will cheer her up!!! You're incredible JCCyC!

:hi:

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

127. Are you planning to move her back to public?

Or would it be too disruptive at this point?

I hear what you're saying about parochial elementary. In our family, we attended the the public elementary that was a few blocks from our house until we were old enough to walk by ourselves to our parish school 1.5 miles away. After a very lackluster start in public, I became an honor roll student thanks to smaller class sizes and the Sisters of Providence, a teaching order of nuns who actually taught us how to study. I bless them still for changing my life.

But our two local Catholic highs were segregated by sex, and I didn't want to attend an all-girl school. A growing interest in boys aside, I didn't think it was a good idea to prepare for adulthood in an atmosphere that didn't reflect real life. Plus, my sister told me how mean the nuns were, and I really didn't want to wear a uniform anymore.

My thoughts are with your daughter today.

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

130. I am going to leave the final decision up to her, but if she chooses to

remain, I am going to back her up if she wants to become proactive and challenge anti-Catholic teachings in the school. As for me, I'm done. No more bake saling. :hi:

Thanks for asking!

[Brewman_Jax]

122. Sorry to hear

It's hard to deal with the "morals and values" voters who are morally bankrupt and intellectually impaired. Why else would they vote for a confirmed deserter over a veteran?

That's why I won't talk politics, except in a very controlled environment. I get a little TOO wound up.

It's a sad day when hate, fear, and bigotry wins over love, hope, and compassion.

They'll feel real pain...when the draft comes and they have to offer a sacrifice to the Lord High Bush*.

[ScreamingMeemie]

123. Thanks LA. And I'll have a hard time trying to feel compassionate

as they are handed their name, rank, serial number and gun.

[madrchsod]

125. there are better churches out there

than this one. our son was went to a catholic school cause the public school he went to sucked..the catholic school he went to also sucked and the priest was years later accused and found to have molested guys in another parish. i maybe alittle old fashioned but going to sunday school and church when i was a kid certainly didn`t warp my views..well maybe it did......go out today and rent "saved" and watch it with your daughter -you`ll both love it......

[PoohStuff]

126. Such a shame

that this is happening. I have mixed feelings about organized religion. There are some good people out there, and there are those who do everything "in the name of the Lord." That is where some if not most of the problem lies. God said to me this... God said to me that... Last time I checked if God spoke to anyone directly and ordered someone to do something in his name, how come one, it's so freggin violent, and two, if you're rich, you're eccentric. If you're middle, or lower class, you should seek help? And why does he need us in the first place to "punish" anyone for him? There are things I don't understand... so forgive me.

How come the lord wants you to put a dollar in a box? How come the lord wants all other religions dead? These things are not in any holy books I've seen. And so, thus seeing this thread I've had 25 years of hell come back to me all at once, growing up in a religion that everyone hates, and hates even more, to detest any type of organized religion, only because parents have to instill in their children that it's OK to make fun of other people in the name of the lord because they don't fully agree with what they want you to agree with. Yes, kids are kids, but they have to be raised somewhere.

I'm sorry this happened. If you find solace in organized religion, then Godspeed, if not... life will go on, and God will understand.

Everything so far has been disappointing. I need help and no money to do so, not a proper job, no proper health care. And now I hear this.

Everything that anyone does will come back to them threefold. Those kids should keep their mouths shut, before they end up in a country fighting a war that shouldn't of happened... I just don't know anymore.

[ScreamingMeemie]

132. We are still here for you PoohStuff! To think that we were so close

to addressing our own country's problems...problems that you are dealing with, and then to have the rug pulled out is so disheartening. I am going to continue the fight against the Godless takers of God's name and restore sanity to this insane nation. :hug: :hug: :hug: Thanks so much for the thoughts.

Laura

[PoohStuff]

135. I will join you

your thank you has meant so much to me right now that I will not be able to express my thanks back fully, but I will try. I will be here for you as well. :many hugs back. And you know what, we will restore the sanity, I have to believe. No God, whomever he may be has to tell me that. It's just common sense and the right thing to do.

Take care my friend.

[ScreamingMeemie]

131. Thank you so much rchsod! I think I'm going to have to go rent that

movie. Perhaps it will cheer her up. This thread, and all of the responses really amazed and wowed her. The power of the people of DU! :hug: