My fiancée and I have lost ALL faith in the lie that is America

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

No one counts except rich white straight people!

[ikojo]

1. Even had Kerry won, what passes for America

would still be a lie.

Under Clinton the disparity between rich and poor grew at a tremendous rate. It was exacerbated during Bush's first term because of his tax cut fetish. Remember some DEMOCRATS voted with the Republicans to cut taxes on them and their other rich friends.

This country was founded on intolerance and hatred. Remember back in colonial times only WHITE PROPERTY OWNING MALES could vote. There are some on the right who believe that only stakeholders have a real understanding of the importance of voting.

America a lie for day one

[Dastard Stepchild]

2. Not true....

the Evangelical Fundies get a good poke into the political pie too. All others though - yeah, yer prolly on the money.

Signed,
Useless, bisexual female of minimal income

[bullimiami]

8. Dear Useless, bisexual female of minimal income

youre not useless, your sexual preference and income i will take your word on.

you are a caring, feeling human being. a lot more than i can say for perhaps 50 million freaks that live in this country.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. But their crimes are there for all to see.

Just dig a little deeper in your local areas, and you will find their vulnerable points. They are powerful because they have created a false image of success. Look deeper and you'll find the corrupt world they live in. The hard part is getting the papers to report them, because the papers are often silenced.

[Elidor]

4. Buck up, man

There are plenty of good things about America...

I just can't think of them right now.

[bullimiami]

5. chavez you still have faith in "US"

half of us a little less, maybe a little more (who knows when you dont trust the count) had the good sense to vote for kerry and gore and dean and values and humanity.

the others? who the hell knows, lead in the water? mad as a hatter from eating mercury filled bass from the lake? insane on fundamentalism?
they are not us, we are not them.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

10. I can't believe that people voted this way - the red columns are

BLOOD COLUMNS!!!

[FunBobbyMucha]

6. I was more than willing to sit thru "Brazil" again, Chav.

sob.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

19. Dude - I'm done - I've given up on this fucking shit heap!

[short bus president]

7. Chavez, my friend,

you still have yer fiancee - see how you're lucky? And there's lots more world out there than just this itchy sphincter of a country. I may need to go in search of it soon.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

11. I can't stay in a country that only cares about rich white straight men

[bullimiami]

12. here here short bus. i just wish my roots werent so deep.

and we were free to fly out of this having forsaken god hellhole.

[johnnie]

9. self deleted

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

21. "your country"? Come on!

[terrya]

13. As a gay man, I feel like a second class American. And I repeat...

what I said last night to the people who voted for the marriage bans.

Fuck you, you sick, miserable goddamned fucks. Hell is waiting for everyone of you.

[Misunderestimator]

18. Ditto that.

[Huckebein the Raven]

42. agreed.

[Philostopher]

14. Hey, Chavez.

They don't care about the two straight, white people of moderate income in this household, either. See, neither of us is Christian, so even though it'll be a while before they nibble away at our right not to be Christian ... I have no doubt it eventually will happen.

Hell, Poppy didn't think we should have a right to be citizens. I'm sure his idiot son doesn't, either.

I'm wit'cha, though -- and other than gay, I've been all the other things they're so determined to marginalize. I've been divorced, apostate, lived on very little money, had nothing much to my name ... I just want everybody who's a little closer to the edge around here to know that we aren't safe, either, just because we're Anglo and hetero. They're gunning for plenty of us, too, for assorted reasons.

If some of us are endangered, we're all in danger.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

17. I'm a Christian and I feel hated!

[Philostopher]

23. What I'm saying is, even being white, hetero and property owners...

isn't going to protect any of us if we don't drink all the Kool-Aid.

If you're endangered, we're all endangered. If Terrya and Arwalden and Misunderestimator and NSMA are endangered, we're all endangered. We may be farther up the list due to our sexual orientation, our race and our status, but we're still on the list.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

24. I Fucking HATE the way this country has gone!

[GOPisEvil]

22. It's not Christians, it's the Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians...

...regular peace-lovin' Christians who actually live like Christ need not apply.

[Philostopher]

25. I'd love to believe that.

But there had to be some of those folks who voted for the gay marriage amendment in Ohio. Our Republican governor and both of our Republican senators were against it; I saw lots of B*/C 04 yard signs next to 'Vote NO on Issue 1' signs. It passed by a sufficiently wide margin that some Dems voted for it. I'm guessing not many of the Dems who voted for it were agnostic or atheists. I know that many of them were deluded into believing it was the right thing, but if they'd bothered to read the text and paid attention, they'd have known what it really said. My guess is the churches told a lot of them it was a good issue, and that they should 'vote their morals.'

I'm sorry -- I have to live in this moral swamp, at least for the foreseeable future. I can't give grace to people who would vote for something as stupid and hateful as that issue.

I'm not anti-Christian, but I'm anti-hate and anti-faux-moral-indignation over sexual orientation.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

34. No doubt!

[Misunderestimator]

15. Correction: Rich, white, straight men

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

16. Thank you.

nt

[jdots]

20. it;s corny but LEAN ON ME ! n/t

[Robert of Locksley]

26. Don't even think of giving up

After reading all the despair on this board, I'm a bit shocked at the defeatism. Mourn, of course. The media steered all of us wrong in thinking Kerry was going to win.

But if you know world history, what happened last night is nothing new. It's always been a case of one step forward, two steps back.
Just because the country currently swings right, doesn't mean it will always be so. If the right-wing fundies had given up so easily in the 90s with Clinton's two terms, they wouldn't be where they are right now. But they had everything they needed to win - an unyielding moral imperative, a strong will to refuse defeat and the courage to go against the popular grain.

Those who believe in equality, democracy, tolerance and economic justice MUST have the same strength as the religious right, certain in the face of an overwhelming historical majority that they are right. Running away is easy, but it doesn't solve anything. So you live in a country where the dominant tendency is an affront to your belief system - you are in good company, my friends.

From Socrates to Galileo, history has always been a record of truth speaking against a corrupt authority backed by a fearful, narrow-minded populace. Eventually, truth will win out. Take a larger perspective and read history. Throughout any era, the fight for decency has always been a struggle and it's rare that good wins out.

And I don't want to hear any of that moral relativity bullshit. Pain is an absolute - if I cut your arm, you bleed. When people starve, they starve. If a policy is more harmful than helpful, it's wrong, no matter how many religious texts or scholarly books say otherwise. It's as simple as that. To stand up for what you believe is right against opposition is the measure of a hero - it's not easy - and that's why heroes are rare.

So grow a backbone and read Gibbon and plan your next battle. The war's only just begun.

[NoSheep]

35. Thank you for the encouragement

[Skittles]

27. I believe the America we all knew may be gone

forever, I don't know. As long as republicans can keep pulling this shit, as long as they own the media and the Supreme Court and as long as people really don't want to see what is happening - we really don't stand a chance. Maybe this is what it will take - things getting worse and worse.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

28. I'm SERIOUSLY contemplating moving to an inteligent country

[RandomKoolzip]

29. You wanna convince Paul to take us + our betrothed to Spain w/him?

C'mon! Socialist government, great weather, etc. It'll be sweet. Marie has always wanted to go to Europe.


Check out the film "L'Auberge D'Espanol" for a vision of modern Barcelona. It's like a cooler version of Paris in the sixties right now.

We can all get a villa together and form a band. They NEED real rock and roll over there, and you got that awesome voice, I can play bass or drums, Paul can sing harmony and play guitar......come on, I think we should. We could make a living being musicians and leave this jahforsaken pimple of a country behind us.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

30. Stinz - I'm borderline despondant!

[RandomKoolzip]

37. There's hope. There's always hope.

It might be time for many of us to simply put aside politics for a little while, just a few days, concentrate on things that make us happy, get our lives in order, excersize, and be grateful for the things you have and those around you who love you. Take stock; it's not the end of the world.

And like I've been saying in the other forums, once we dust ourselves off from this debacle, the activism that has sprung from Bush's presidency like a benign tumor will only spread, harden, get organized, become more powerful. Bush 04=Nixon 72. I seriously predict that he won't last his full second term; there's Plame, Halliburton, the Iraquagmire, etc. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong; so what? 1968 was more heady than this, if our parents are to be believed. What we've learned from the last four years is that we DO have a voice: we helped push voter turnout to previously unheard of levels, and Dems DID win some decisive victories in other parts of the country. I know *I* personally feel better that Barack Obama is on his way to become the first black president and that he won over a RW religious fanatic whose sole platform issue was "Christian Vlaues." In Illinois, we're all happy that we kicked the Pukes out, for the most part (Hastert is still there, grrrrrrr).

But right now, look around you: we're still the same people with the same dreams, the same talents and the same ideals. Concentrate on being a better person yourself and loving those close to you more than you ever have before. And no, I haven't turned into Deepak Chopra. I just think that we need to consider that in the long run, we HAVE NOT LOST.



This is a movement now, and it may take thirty years, but we'll get there.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

38. Will you call me tonight?

:cry:

[RandomKoolzip]

40. Shit. Wish I could, compadre.

MArie and I are going to Wisconsin today to pick up a fifty dollar couch we saw on Ebay. We'll be back tomorrow. Want me to call you tomorrow nioght? Gotta go....

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

41. Yes

[bif]

31. I hear ya bro!

Sad, sad day for America.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

36. Word

[jukes]

32. canada

i'm fed up. too many problems

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

33. I GOT LOVE FOR YOU JUKES!!!

I need it back from you today!!!

[madrchsod]

39. my wife wants to leave

but we are to old to leave.i guess we`ll have to hunker down here in the only democracy left in america-illinois- and ride out the storm