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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:44 PM
Original message
I never expected so much hostility from this group.
Maybe my post about the Kerry rally in NH wasn't all sunshine, but hell, I said good things about the turn out, good things about the visibility efforts all around Manchester... but because I had something negative to say, all that went out the door. I certainly never said I wouldn't still be voting for Kerry. My only concern -- unfounded or not, and I'm happy to hear why it would be unfounded -- is that bad crowd management could have cause some Kerry votes to be lost.

Even if many of you had good reasons to object to that which I though was negative at the rally, you ignored every bit of caution and temperance that I tried to exercise in my criticism. How can anyone be fair in reading my original post about the Kerry rally and act as if I were boo-hooing about being made to wait or stating anything other than cautious concern specific to this one event?

I'm sorry I'm not an expert on what to expect at a rally like this. Is it really par for the course that people wait in large crowds without anyone making any attempt to communicate with the crowd via PA or megaphone about the nature or duration of the delays? If so, I misjudged. But there were other people there waiting in the crowd with me who didn't "know the ropes", and they were misjudging the situation in the same way I was -- they didn't understand they were experiencing "the usual" either.

Is it that far-fetched to suggest that one of those people might get pissed and change their vote? Is it that extreme to suggest the possibility of some simple things that could have been done to avoid such outcomes?

You all get terribly annoyed when you hear Karl Rove or some other Republican lackey take a Kerry comment completely out of context and twist it, like the whole "global test" thing -- but the way a lot of you treated my post about leaving the Kerry rally, you did the same thing and worse with my words.

If you think I'm wrong... how about some constructive criticism? That's fine by me. But for daring to say something negative, I'm instead attacked for the most stupid of reasons, even having my screen name "Kerry4Kerry" attacked as an "obvious" sign of fraud, when it's never before caused the slightest consternation in over a dozen posts I'd made previously.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sorry you got treated poorly
People are on edge. I don't think people expected such a negative thread about attending a rally...most people get energized just by seeing the crowds that turn out for Kerry.

There have been some disruptors and they say or do things to get an ire built up over nothing or over something minor.

What you described wasn't really out of the ordinary for a rally...it seems you may have been a bit unprepared for how it would go or had expectations that it would go differently.

At any rate...if you can...please forgive the manner in which you were treated on that thread.

I don't think people MEAN to be rude...I think we're all on edge.

Hang in there...sorry your rally experience wasn't a good one.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. I live in Mississippi. I would go through hell and high water to see...
JK if he would visit my state.

I haven't had an opportunity to see him, but I surely don't come to DU to whine and threaten to change my vote because of this.

Be glad that such a large crowd was there to see him. Quit your belly-aching.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Its normal in a way..Before the primaries I waited 2 hours and still
there was no room. I went back again the next week and was on stage with Kerry so you got to think of the turn out this time. We are trying to hold on to democracy, some had shed blood not just wait in line for it. Sorr you were treated badly but our very republic is on the line here !
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. What I'm curious about is...
...not how long you had to wait, but if anything was done to manage the wait.

You said you waited two hours. Did anyone address you while you were waiting, or did you just stand there having to wonder to yourself about why the wait was so long?

If I'd known what to expect, I would have waited it out no matter what. But unfortunately I'd made a commitment to my father for later in the afternoon not knowing that I'd picked a bad time, and not having my cell phone with me (I figured it would mean one less security hassle to leave it in my car) I couldn't even call to cancel, so I didn't have much choice.

My concern was much more about how others in the crowd would react. If I didn't know that this was what I should expect, the I doubt I was the only one, and some of the other annoyed people might not be so rational in their reactions when it comes time to vote.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:02 PM
Original message
Just stood in line..same thing with the Gore rally ! First come basis
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 05:03 PM by vetwife
The people did not even know when both began to speak but I must admit Kerry had a larger crowd. Much larger. They did put speakers on the outside. The 2nd time, same thing but we all asked each other, the volunters were really trying to answer questions about bumper stickers and things. I think it was the crowd's fault more than anything. Anticipation and such. Volunteers were just maxed out running back and forth trying to answer questions but getting stopped for other things. I walked to the door around a block and said whats happening and they said, Not enough room. Also, security was stopping things like a bullhorn and cops did not want one wandering around. But then this is Ga.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. You're being a bit more reserved than some of the others...
But some of the same symptoms are there.

Where do you see THE SLIGHTEST HINT in anything I wrote of a THREAT TO CHANGE MY VOTE???

And is any concern expressed "belly-aching" now?
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venus Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Give me a break. This is a discussion board
and folks should be able to air their opinions, not bite their tongues and be afraid. I thought it was a great post because it invited some insight into Kerry rallies. It was not critical. And those of you who attacked it are just plain wrong. This experience might explain why some Kerry rallies the last couple of days have been reported as "modest crowds". If you're really for Kerry then take on some of his virtues, like open mindedness and all embracing.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is far-fetched to suggest that one of them would change their vote...
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 04:52 PM by Misunderestimator
yes. I went to my first rally this summer, and didn't know what to expect either. There was no shouting from megaphones telling us when the doors would open, there was no organized assembling of people who arrived hours early (as you did as well). There were a few volunteers that walked among the first arrivals and got them to cheer and chant, but the line stretched 10,000 people, 3 wide, and NO one was back there organizing anything.

In the end, only 2,000 of us could get into the auditorium, the remaining 8,000 waited outside for another TWO hours, not even getting to see or hear the speeches, and from what I could tell, not many of them left (and I wouldn't have either). Kerry went out to them after the rally, since he was so impressed by the dedication.

Sorry your experience was unpleasant, but the way you framed your experience left a bad taste in my mouth.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. He said he gave up on the rally, not Kerry
.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes, but the tone of the post was complaining about the supposed
disorganization of the campaign in essence. That just didn't seem necessary.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Everyone gets jumped on at one time or another...
Try not to sweat it too hard.
Sometimes it's difficult on a message board to get the tone of a thing, and it's easy for people to misget what you mean.

Ain't no thing but a chicken wing.

Ain't nothin' but a Taco Bell.

Uh.....that's all.
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Some Peta member threatened to gut me
when I first came on here.

Bite back if they bite first.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. don't waste your time thinking about it...
For all the talk by the "left" about being tolerant and welcoming dissenting views, there are always people ready to be nasty to you for expressing them. Just because someone is a liberal doesn't mean they're automatically nice or considerate... you should still say whatever you want no matter what people think.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. DU is full of assholes, myself included, and some of those assholes
have taken it upon themselves to play Moderator and try 'out' freepers like there's some prize involved - or maybe just to suck up - who knows.

:hi:
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da_chimperor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. It happens
We're not bad people, we're just edgy right now. It's unfortunate that you got jumped for merely expressing your disappointment about a less-than-perfectly planned rally, so I'd like to apologize to you for that. While I'm confident that Kerry will kick some bu$hco ass on Tuesday, many people aren't quite as confident as I am, and do not appreciating comments that could possibly be interpreted as negative or defeatist. I don't think your post was either, but some people obviously did. Hang in there!
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. I can understand you are taken aback ...
but you may want to balance your personal sensitivities in relation to the overall scenario.

You have only 30 posts, so that has an impact on your content for now.

Things are on edge here, as was said. Many people feel that this is far more than "just another election". It is critical and vital to America's future. The outcome will have tremendous gravity.

We also face a very negative, disrespectful, and devious opposition who has stooped lower than anyone can remember in order to WIN at ALL COSTS!

Now, take all that, add the fact that the time for the final decision is coming soon, and you should be able to see that your compassion and understanding for the situation here is just as important as your indignation over the response to your issue.

Please try to understand that and thanks for your POV. Welcome to DU.
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. You have to be against spanking unless it's for sexual purposes
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 05:05 PM by The Flaming Red Head
You can spank your partner for fun and talk about it, but never ever say that you ever spanked your kids

No red meat
No guns
No just joking or kidding around post (they take seriously)
No socialism (some of them freak out)


There's more unofficial rules

They'll teach you as time goes on.
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venus Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. I know what you mean. After all this site is "DEMOCRATIC" underground.
Stay with us. It's a shame profound Kerry supporters are treated so shabbily. I enjoyed your post myself. Thanks for your time and efforts.
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. Unfortunately there is plenty of hostility here
It seems like some people just thrive on being argumentative.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Have you noticed the loads of new posters here?
Some of them are disrupters. Now, they are smart enough not to go into full flame because that'll get 'em canned pretty quick. Not saying you are, but do you honestly think anyone would change his vote based on problems getting into a rally?

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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. I honestly do think silly stuff like a bad rally exp. could change votes
Someone else posting here mentioned a relative who was voting for Bush because she said, refering to Kerry, "I don't like that wife of his!"

This guy was trying to explain the importance of making serious voting choices to his kid, but unfortunately the kid's grandmother had set this poor example, leaving the father stuck trying to explain to a kid how adults could sometimes be so foolish, and why she should try to be more sensible than her own grandmother.

When every vote counts... and it does in NH right now, we're right on the edge... you want to get all of the votes, even the irrational votes if you can.

If people voted rationally, would we even need rallies?

If you accept that rallies can be a force for winning votes, and that all of that winning of votes is not purely based on rational appeals, then doesn't it follow that if a number of attendees consider a rally experience to be a bad experience that you could end up winning fewer votes than you otherwise might have won, or even possibly lose some?
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miss_kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. sorry
I think it's bullshit that some people feel threatened by a different opinion, then take it out on the person expressing it. Flaming has become de riguer here and I pretty much don't flex my political acumen around here because of that... I am not interested in wasting time on a flame war :eyes: It's not conducive to intelligent discussion of the issues. I'm not saying I above a little fire now and again, but I prefer not to wear out my adrenal glands on a constant war over trivialities and rhetoric and semantics.

:hi: and for what it's worth, welcome. chill here in the lounge :)
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PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. Newbies who dare to post uncertainites
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 05:10 PM by PDittie
are ritually drawn and quartered. It's part of your initiation.

Yes, we can be a bit clique-ish.

Now hurry up and get that post count up so that you can freely express the occasional doubt.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. Those hunting freepers need to be more careful.
They might shoot a friend,or two. Be patient,and try to avoid negativity. Welcome to DU!
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Clovis Sangrail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. I've had similar experiences here
I read your original post and was, unfortunately, not surprised by the responses it generated... even though I didn't think it was out of line.

There have always been people at du who are too quick to assume that somebody is an "infiltrator" or less than genuine; I think with the election that tendency is even more pronounced in some.

You can't take online communities all that seriously.

I've been accussed, online, of being racist, homophobic, and just about any other nasty thing you can think of... while in meatspace I've been very involved in anti-racist, anti-war, and pro-environment actions for many years.

Don't let it get to you or chase you away.
There are idiots and assholes in every part of life, why should this be different?
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. Welcome aboard, Kerry!
I didn't really see anything wrong with your original post when I read it earlier, but as far as the response you got I totally understand it.

1) It's just hours before gametime, and everybody is on edge. You don't appear to be. That alone is a sign to many that you aren't really fully on the team. You want to be casual that's fine, but expect a little cultural disconnect between that and alot of very committed people for whom this is all so very important.

2) There is an expectation of disruptors and shenanigans not only in the election itself, but here on DU. People are wary. You don't think they should be? Too bad, they are.

This obviously gets to you or you wouldn't have posted in the first place, or reduxed it again here. If you're that sensitive about your own feelings, why can't you be sensitive about the feelings that others - people who have invested alot more time here than you have - might be experiencing?

You were mildly cuffed when you probably didn't deserve it. Big deal. Let it go. Nobody is ticked at you, Kerry. You just ran into some early-warning antibodies. You should, maybe for right now, be more considerate of the prevailing skittishness, maybe even paranoia to some extent, that people around here are operating under, than everybody else is going to be towards your feelings.

It will pass as quickly as you let it.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've seen flamings here at DU
and that was mild, comparatively speaking, really.

Not excusing it, just sayin'.

And I'd spend all day and night waiting to see Kerry, but long may I wait, since I live in Texas.

Sorry you had such trouble. HUGE crowds such as what Kerry is attracting are harder to handle. Who knows what kind of problems they were experiencing behind the scenes? You don't know and we don't know, so what's the use of speculating?

All in all, it's 48 hours (less, really) until what is for a lot of us the biggest election of our lives. You'll have to realize people are a bit on edge and the wagons are circled. Again, not trying to justify anything, just spreading some observations around.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Welcome Kerry
I'm sorry things were so rough on that other post. Hope we will all be celebrating together on Tuesday night.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Most voters have already decided
A few comments on a message board isn't going to change that.
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