Help me not to vomit about being jobless.

[tjdee]

I hate the dog and pony-ness about getting a job.
I hate sitting there trying to impress someone in 20 minutes.
I hate when they say they'll call you one way or another and they don't (this has happened to me TWICE now). Common courtesy, hello?

I hate that I have actually now applied to the Walmart/Target/KMart and the local shoe store when I spent years busting my ass for a degree--simply because my money's running out and I needed a job three days ago to pay my evermounting bills.

And THEY'RE not calling me either!!

Do I smell bad? I'm starting to wonder if my race is a factor, which I can honestly say I've never considered until right this moment.
Who knows, maybe I really am unqualified to greet people at the Walmart!

OOohhh I wish I could have a drink--but I'd have to pay for it, and then my kid wouldn't have lunch at school next week.

[Trajan]

1. Seems like the story of my life right now ...

Because it is ...

THANKFULLY: I finally got an interview today: but for a factory job in a dirty, hot, humid plant ...

It apparently pays 10.50 to start: 40% of my former wage ...

But considering I havent gotten but ONE other response in 10 weeks of searching (at 6.50 per hr) ... $10.50 seems like a fucking gold mine ....

Hang in there: it will come ...

But I COMPLETELY understand your frustration: the dog and pony show is a bit of pretense that leaves one feeling dirty .... all for the almighty buck ....

Damn .... now I feel dirty .....

[tjdee]

12. Yup-- minimum wage is looking pretty attractive to me...

Man-- 5.15 an hour??? Compared to zero?? It makes me sick to think of how I'd jump at that.

Come, we be dirty together!

[LisaLynne]

2. I'm so sorry...

you're having such a hard time of it. It's not fair. I wish there was more I could do to help, but all I can tell you is that I've been there, and it does indeed pass. It's emotionally draining and scary as heck, but eventually, things will pull together.

[tjdee]

14. Thank you...I know that, in my head...

But today I talked my kid out of having cereal after school, only because I knew it would mean I have to spend money buying milk.

Definitely a low point, and a few minutes later I practically forced her to have a big bowl of cereal drowned in milk!

I KNOW it will get better, and it will pass. Things are tough for everyone, and at least I still have a place to live and internet access, which is really a lot!

[GOPFighter]

3. I wish it was Bush and not you

It's about time for Shrub to learn some humility.

I agree with you, nothing sucks more than being unemployed (well, maybe terminal cancer).

[tjdee]

16. Yeah...I feel so bad for not getting it before...

I've seen a few "hey, I'm unemployed and it sucks" threads, but I didn't fully understand the level of suck.

Oh it's something.

[smirkymonkey]

4. Can you collect unemployment?

If you have a degree and had a higher level job, a lot of these retail places won't take you unless there is a labor shortage, as they know you will probably take the first decent job on your level when it comes along.

A lot of educated people who have lost jobs over the last few years won't take people that are overqualified because there are so many adequately-qualified to take the job who will work for less, take more crap from management and don't have any other options, hence they won't be going anywhere soon. It totally sucks - sorry you are having such a tough time.

What about temping in an office? At least you won't have to wear some stupid uniform.

[tjdee]

11. The nearest temp place is an hour from here...

And I bought a used lemon car that needs to have the fuel pump replaced--so I'm afraid to go long distances because if the fuel pump goes, I'm screwed for real. That's one of my last resort things--the last time I needed a job I signed up with 4 agencies and only one got me a job (and of course, all I need is that one!)...so the trip might be a waste.

I thought my degree was an advantage--but the way you explain it makes sense...at least now I understand *why* they're not calling me back. Thanks for the post :)

[smirkymonkey]

34. Sure! It's those of us in the middle...

- the educated, but without a lot of money and power - who are really suffering in this economy! Paying back student loans? Fuggeddahaboudit!

Best of luck to you - I've been there! Just don't give up hope! :)

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Don't panic

It isn't you. This has been going on for years now, and companies have had years to perfect this kind of treatment.

I would suggest also looking into jobs in the public sector right now.
Be creative and don't ever give up.

Best Regards,

TCO

[tjdee]

15. How do you know I don't smell if you have that gas mask on??

Thanks for the pep talk :)

[chookie]

6. It sure does suck the big one

Applying for work has become one of the most humiliating and demeaning degradations one can bring upon one's self these days. It's has become a Fear Factor-type rite of passage, in which one must show one's self to be humble enough to merit an inadequate salary. You must show yourself to be so egoless and meek that they can count on you never to stick up for yourself and submit to any condition they care to dish out to you. You might have a demonstrably solid work record and years of experience in your field, having trained at the best school for your profession, and have raving references, but you will be asked to submit to a background check, to pee into a cup, and pass some wacky-assed pop psychology quiz.

I fucking HATE this shit.

Does it ensure a better work force? Hell NO! It's all a ritualistic show of power on part of the employer. Corporations are now little independent principalities that can create any rules and conditions that they wish. Despite all the lip service Republicans pay to "valuing work" -- they sure don't value workers. The message that people are getting is that they should feel lucky to have a job, that a job and a salary is a generous gift from an employer, and it is to Him that you owe your home and food, NOT your own efforts.

BTW -- it's just going to get worse. It pains me to tell you this, as I know you are already in distress, and I am very sick at heart for you -- but I will not be dishonest asn say this is going to pass easily. These are times which must be endured, my dear -- but never submit to them, and always keep fighting for a better world.

It doesn't have to be this way. It was not like this just a few years ago. It hasn't sucked this bad since the 30s.

Please write a letter to Kerry or Edwards and tell them what your life has become. YOU'RE the kind of person that they are trying to reach, the kind of person they are trying to save by taking on the Ultimate Bastard, Bush.

[tjdee]

17. You hit the nail on the head for sure.

It IS humiliating AND degrading.
The level of importance they give themselves during the interview is mindboggling. Like their organization is SO hallowed and SO intricate that only the very smartest and fascinating people can be hired for the job of taking coffee to the boss. :eyes:

You need confidence going into these things, but they seem designed to suck the confidence right out of you.

This process has made me rabid about starting my own business (when I get one of these sucky jobs)-- I don't EVER want to have to beg someone for a job again.

[stopbush]

7. I know it's bad, but you can't stop trying.

I lost my job back in 2001. I've had hundreds of interviews around the country. Yesterday, I was FINALLY offered a position that will pay about 26% of what I was making at the 2001 job!

The company is an arts organization. They tried to recruit me 2.5 years ago, but I didn't take the job because the pay was so low and I had money in the bank...and I'd have to relocate 2600 miles. Turns out I relocated here anyhow, immediately looked up the organization and had lunch with the powers-that-be. At that point, all their positions were filled.

Then, very little contact for 9 months. In May I made a concerted effort to reestablish contact with them when they advertised this new position. They never returned my call. So, I called again in July. That suddenly got the ball rolling and led to 5 subsequent lunches/meetings where they basically beat around the bush and never offered the position. Yesterday, the finally offered me something.

So, I'm taking it because having anything is better than having nothing. But the dance that was involved to land this position was as long as it was, well, ridiculous.

Oh, yeah: out of work 3.5 years; went through 401 and savings; sold house and relocated; went through most of the house sale money in the last 15 months; finally landed a job that will allow me to barely get by while I continue to search for something better; I've turned the corner! Time to vote *!

[tjdee]

18. Oh wow, how did you do it?

Mentally I mean?
I'm in a very crappy mood all the time, I hate sitting at my house, and hearing about Paris Hilton makes me want to hurt something....but I'm supposed to stroll into these interviews and be Exciting Not-over-or-under-qualified Person!

You deserve some kind of award or something.

[stopbush]

27. How does one do it? How can one not?

I have a wife and 2 kids. I can never understand the statistics of those who "have stopped looking for work." I mean, how does one just stop looking?

Mentally, it's tough. You need to treat the job search like an unpaid full-time job, and by that I mean you spend 6-10 hours a day looking anywhere and everywhere for work. I've been fortunate enough to have worked my way up the ranks in marketing and have earned a great salary in the past. I was frugal and saved as much as possible - that was a saving grace.

Here's what I have found to be the most interesting and unexpected part of this long saga: it's almost a total waste of time to go for menial, low-paying service type jobs, no matter how desperate you are. You'll never get hired because your education/work history/achievements are a big threat to the middle-level managers doing the hiring. I've been at the VP level for a decade. In my long job search, I have not once - not ONCE - been extended an invite for an interview to any job listed below Senior Director. There's no way you can step back down the ladder because employers figure you'll never be happy at a lower level and lower pay so they just don't bother. I don't know how many well-meaning employed friends have admonished me to "just get something, anything." Well, guess what? It doesn't work that way these days.

I guess the good news is that I've had many interviews for my level, but at least half of them have been fake interviews designed to get some internally identified candidate to shit or get off the pot and take a promotion that's been offered ("we've got three guys who will take the job, so make up your mind now"). I've even had recruiters apologize to me for sending me to such interviews...and they've confided to me that it's becoming all too common in upper management searches these days.

So, stick in there...and turn off the TV! Almost anything is better than vegging out in front of the tube.

[ocean girl]

8. I've been unemployed for 3 years and if one more person tells me

that I'm overqualified I'm going to SCREAM!

Hang in there!

Peace.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

9. I have been told the same ....

And I am gonna SCREAM with you .

[ocean girl]

10. And the person who tell me that is usually totally clueless...

with very little experience of their own. I've even had them tell me that they won't hire me because I might take THEIR job!

So, I spent 30 years in advertising and publishing for what?

[tjdee]

19. Hey carolina and ocean, I'm screaming with you.

So--if you can DO the job, that's.....BAD and they don't want to hire you??

Oh, lovely.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

23. YES ! They are afraid that we might take their jobs !

There excuse at not hiring me is that I am too young . Too young ? I am 24 ! Is that discrimination or what ! I have been told I am overqualified , I look too young , I look to " cutesy " and think I may not want to work in their conditions . And also that I am not gullible enough ! What kind of mess is that ? But I know that something will come for me when the time is right .

[Digit]

44. Can you qualify as a substitute teacher?

Have you checked with the Employment Security Commission?
If the real estate market is good in your area...(some are, some aren't), get your license. You could assist a Realtor in the meantime until you received your license.
Telemarketing can pay well and they will usually take anyone who breathes.
You may have already tried these avenues, but I was just trying to help.
Best of luck to you.

[Skittles]

13. tjee

when repugs are in power, it's an employers' market. That means workers get treated like shit. It's not you.

[tjdee]

20. Thanks Skittles....it really does feel like its me.

But I know it isn't. Kinda.

I want to alternately laugh/spit when I hear Bush/Cheney and co. tell me how great the economy is.

Maybe I can sell stuff on ebay for a dollar, that should do it!!

[supernova]

21. ((((tjdee))))

:hug: Hang in there.

I went through the same thing for 24 months. I put out applications, I wrote cover letters, I went to interviews. etc. It gets tiresome, I know.

Try to think of it as a winnowing process. They may be weeding you out, but you are also weeding them out. Anybody who in the interview who

1) makes you uncomfortable (for any reason)
2) says they'll call you back and then don't

isn't someone you want to wind up working for anyway. Think of them as doing you a favor. There might have been some problem in that workplace you wouldn't have wanted to be involved in.

The job I have had for about a week now, the first thing I thought when I got out of the interview was "I enjoyed that!" Imagine that, enjoying an interview. Certainly I never imagined it.

So hang tough and stick to your guns about what you are looking for. You may find it tight now, but you'll be much better off in the long run when the right opportunity comes along.

[worksux]

26. tjdee! much white light and positive energy to you

I had read your post earlier like I think 6pm and couldn't stop thinking about it.
Here's what I have had to do-I am in (puke) Dallas- the buckle of the bible belt and the snake pit to boot. Since I can't bring myself to be like one of the Crab People (re: SouthPark), I have put myself in school to be a paralegal.
The philosophy I see in today's employers are produce or get out. Like they treat the children working in Nike factories, etc.
DU is a grrrrreat support system. Hook into us any time
Cheers-:grouphug:

[2Design]

38. Love your attitude - a friend said to look at interviews as practice

Practicing for the real one that counts

It is so easy to blame ourselves
I like your take on this
I have had interviews in my life where I was uncomfortable and took it anyway to get out of a situation only to find out I had jumped in the frying pan

Nice to remember when it doesn't work out - it wasn't a good match

[mark414]

22. this happened to my uncle

lost his job shortly after 9/11 and couldn't find work ANYWHERE

here is a man with 2 degrees AND a masters and he couldn't find a single thing

he too tried the retail stores and fast food restaurants once he got real desparate but they all turned him away because they said he was overqualified!

[Krupskaya]

24. Nothing to add but sympathy...

...and I'm with you -- coming on three years and wondering if I stink, too. Overqualified, degreed, the whole shebang.

Husband works in construction -- pardon me as I get down on my knees and thank Maude for the union -- but he was laid off for four months this spring. Lots of ramen then.

It sucks mightily and I don't know when it'll change. The scariest thing I've seen since I got laid off was an old farmer who told me, "I was a young many in 1930. What I see now is just like what I saw when the Depression was coming. Only this'll be worse."

[JanMichael]

25. This is Stephanie, not Michael

I am so sorry that you are going through this...I wasn't smart enough to click on your profile...what area of the country are you in?

Stephanie

[tjdee]

39. Ye Olde New Jersey.

How are you guys doing?? I've been away from DU for awhile...I remember JanMichael posting about you guys getting married, and that was it!

[ibegurpard]

28. Don't let it get to your self-esteem

Many of us have been in the same boat and it's INCREDIBLY humiliating, degrading, ...pick your adjective. Eventually things WILL get better and it's NOT you.

[LynzM]

29. Dude, hugs for you

It does suck. Hubby just graduated in May, looking for a job in engineering... nothing. Over or under qualified for everything. Finally got a job doing temp work, sucked, but brought in some money. Then I got laid off in August. Got lucky and a friend's mom got me in the door someplace, and we are moving so I can take that job. Stuff is so bad right now that I almost feel bad posting that I got a job, because I know how many people are looking and looking. I hope so much that things start to turn around in the next 6 months. The only advice I have for you is to network like crazy, tell everyone you know that you are job-hunting, etc. You never know who's going to know someone who knows someone, yk? I never expected to land a job through the person I did, but it's more likely if you talk to people about it. Hang in there, I hope things get better for you soon. It's a tough market for everyone these days :hug

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

30. Hang in there.

I think we've all been your boat at one time or another. I got laid off a job a few years ago that I really liked and only had been there for three months.

This is the time when you have to hang tough. For your kids, at least.

I wish you all the luck in the world finding something. I send you all of my best karma.

[TexasSissy]

31. My sister is going through the same thing.

Only she's middle aged. So it could be worse.

What happened to your last job?

Remember this: Eventually you will get a job. It won't be the job you want, but it'll be something until the right job comes along. This is not a permanent situation.

Do this: Learn a backup skill (or two). I come from a hard-pressed economic area. I learned years ago that it is best to have a backup skill to your primary work, so that when and if you lose your primary job, you will be able to look for more than one kind of job. I mean a SKILL....something that not everyone knows. Something manual. Some skill that is pretty commonly needed, no matter what the economy. Like, say, expert typing and computer skills. (Of course, you will have to brush up on these skills periodically, or they will become meaningless over the years.) Or car sales experience. Or some sort of tech/repair skills (repair of small home appliances; computer tech/repair).

Can't you: Is there no temporary/contract work in your area? This is often a primary source of fast work in my area, but I live in a large city. I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's not really hard to get a temporary assignment in a number of fields in my area through a temp agency. Office work or the legal field is big in the temp area here. Also computer workers of all sorts. I don't know about retail temp jobs. In fact, some people in my city support themselves on temp jobs for years. A couple of the temp agencies even provide insurance (the contract employee has to pay for it, and it's not very good, but at least it's available) and vacation after a year (yes, the agency will pay for the temp worker to take a 2 week vacation).

Remember this: The job market is lousy right now. Hard as it may be, do some self talk in the mirror and remind yourself that you are unique and would make a great employee, that some lucky company is going to get you, if they only pay attention. Try to keep up your self esteem. This is a lousy time to try to find a job, so it's not you. It's not you. IT'S NOT YOU.

Think about: What is the main reason you aren't being hired over others, do you think (in your chosen field)? Think about this objectively, and try to cure this for the future. Is there some problem with your job history? If so, this is easily fixable, once you get your new job (and you will). If you're not getting hired at Wal-Mart and you have a degree----that's my sister's situation. There are tons of overqualified people applying for minimum wage jobs. The minimum wage companies for the most part are not hiring those overqualified workers. It's not you.

How about convenience store worker? It's a lousy job (the pay and the hours), but they have a high turnover and so are frequently hiring. Also, I hear they are more prone to hire overqualified people or whoever, since they any worker they hire is likely to leave, so they have nothing to lose. It's the type of job that may leave you with some time during the day to apply for another job.

Good luck! Don't give up. A job will come your way. It really will. There are new jobs opening up every month.

[tjdee]

41. Hey, thanks--

I have a built in handicap looking for a job, which is that I stayed home to have and raise the kid for a few years. That is a big handicap, and it's difficult to explain it (I've had people tell me not to have it on my resume, people tell me to put it on the resume, etc.).

Without getting too much into it, I had a bad living situation and had to move--I went thinking I'd transfer within the same organization I'd been working, and it fell through. I had some money to start, but I'm wearing through that quickly.

Thanks for the idea about the convenience store...I thought they'd have the same overqualification problem so I haven't gone there yet, but you've made me feel better about that.

[Yavin4]

32. When You Go For A McJob At WalMart, Lie Your Ass Off

Make up your experience on your resume. Leave off your college degree, etc. They probably won't check it out. What do you have to lose?

[Red State Rebel]

33. Have you considered Substitute Teaching?

In Missouri where I am, you only need a 4 year degree in anything and a criminal background check to sub. My daughter in law did this for a while and really enjoyed it. The school where they live had a phone line you could call in to find out upcoming sub jobs and schedule them for yourself once you are accepted thru the school.

[faithnotgreed]

37. good idea. craigslist.com, idealist.org, citypaper

& the companion citypaper weekly (for those places that have independent weeklies)

just a few thoughts...

[tjdee]

40. Yup, I put in my app to two local towns...

New Jersey is the most infuriating place to do education related jobs, LOL, but I have applied with the town I'm in and the one next door. They're not advanced enough down here to have a call up number so I'm just waiting.

Thank you for the suggestion though :)

[SarahB]

35. Sorry about that.

It sucks. I know. Basically, you have to sit there and find a way to sell yourself as much as possible. Take time to find out a little about the job and what is done. Make sure you overdress for the interview (look professional). Stress your assets and good points. Pretend like your excited about if if you'd rather have a dozen other jobs over the way you're interviewing for.

SarahBelle
Who just today landing my wonderful, not so high-paying, bleeding heart liberal and proud of it, social services job helping little kids and their families take better care of them!

[skygazer]

36. I'm so sorry

It IS so stressful and especially when you have a child to consider. It's horrible and humiliating to have to say "no" to their innocent requests because you know it will hurt you financially.

I can't really offer any better advice than that which has already been given. I know it sounds silly but I often find a good walk in a pretty area clears my mind and soul and relieves my stress. And it's free.

:hug:

[tjdee]

42. Thanks so much everybody.

You've all given me lots of suggestions and encouragement, and I appreciate it so much. I didn't reply to everyone, and one of these days I'll make a poll on whether you hate someone if you reply to their post and they don't reply to your reply....

But THANK YOU EVERYBODY.

[Dastard Stepchild]

43. My condolences...

Chicago is a tough market right now, as well. I gave up many months ago and planned to continue further in my grad studies. I am postponing the inevitable, but, well, it made sense at the time...

My best to you!

[daveskilt]

45. could be worse - twice Ive had a job offer crap out at the last minute

once was cingular - after they bought ATT so understandable. DPL (after I had packed by house and was ready to move) because they are worthless bastards.

I found myself in a job interview with a group of people - they ask about education and I say BS in Sociology, MBA in Marketing and OD consulting, PMI certification etc. the next guy says "I nearly finished wit da high school but then my stupid girlfriend went and had a kid so now Im doing my GEDs"

One of us was clearly in the wrong place and I think it was me. Having to take stupid aptitude tests to see if I can count to ten is irritating - I want to just say look at my fucking GMAT and GRE - do you think they give out those scores in fortune cookies???

I have now sent 638 job applications, recieved 122 rejections, had 8 first interviews, and 3 where the interview went to second third fourth (and in one case 5th) rounds. keeping my fingers crossed on number 3 or I will have to accept the crappy job offer I just got from Devry to sell their pretend degrees.

hang in there.

[PVnRT]

46. I wish I could

I have a master's degree in chemical engineering, and the only job I can get right now involves six twelve-hour shifts a week making crackers and biscuits on an assembly line.

[fugue]

47. I wish I could help

I lost my job in July 2003. I got phenomenally lucky: a friend had an actually expanding business on the internet, and so when my back was to the wall, she agreed to give me work. She's even going to arrange health benefits for me. (She's an Arizona voter and will be voting Kerry, by the way.)

I know it was luck and not skill. That makes me sick to my stomach sometimes, thinking about all the people out there who are in the same boat or worse and no such luck. I get even sicker when I consider the number of people who think that the solution is for these people to "reinvent" themselves.

I wish I could help all of you. All I can say is that it's not your fault, it's that of cold corporations who don't recognize your value. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

*HUGS* to all!