If W is a recovering alcoholic, why does he not reign in the twins?

[phillybri]

I'm not saying drinking is a bad thing. Far from it, but if you yourself have experienced the pain of struggling w/ a disease that is in fact genetic, wouldn't you try to keep your kids from making the same mistakes???

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

1. Because like everything else in his life they're just props.

He truly doesn't give a fuck about anybody.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

14. See, I hate the man, but I can't go that far...

I mean, I think he truly cares about his family and likes kids. He just doesn't want to make sure anyone but his are taken care of in the future.
Duckie

[soothsayer]

2. cuz that was the best time of his life, as far as he's concerned, and he

is living vicariously thru their booziness (assuming he REALLY is on the wagon, which I doubt cuz of the pretzel incident)

[istruthfull]

3. recovering ?

recovering ?

[slackmaster]

4. The twins are adults and free to make and solve their own problems

Nobody can stop anyone else from having a drinking problem, being overweight, or spending too much time on DU forums. Starting the process of getting over an addiction is the essential do-it-yourself project.

[phillybri]

7. I understand that completely....

I just think a caring parent would at least say something...Who knows?

[slackmaster]

10. Maybe GWB has said something to them

How would we know?

[qwertyMike]

22. Won't work

[istruthfull]

8. too much time

what constitutes too much time?

[ihaveaquestion]

5. Laura won't let him.

They're her spoiled little dolls who can do no wrong.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

15. He could have said SOMETHING...

But they probably told him to go fuck himself.
Duckie

[miss_kitty]

6. and he's not really a recovering alcoholic

he's a dry drunk

[murielm99]

9. I keep hearing that here, but I have no idea what it means.

Can you explain?

[mac56]

11. Dry drunk...

http://www.counterpunch.org/wormer1011.html

Dry drunk is a slang term used by members and supporters of Alcoholics Anonymous and substance abuse counselors to describe the recovering alcoholic who is no longer drinking, one who is dry, but whose thinking is clouded. Such an individual is said to be dry but not truly sober. Such an individual tends to go to extremes.

[miss_kitty]

13. people I've been around who are considered to be dry drunks

who haven't taken responsibility for their actions while drunk and sometimes act drunk, even though they're not drinking. they seem to be combative and belligerent as well. PLUS what mac56 said...

Contrast and Compare the Example-In-Chief.

[Stew225]

12. I don't know about that. I personally think that Shrub

is about as dry as Niagra Falls!

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Agreed. I think that Pretzel "incident"

had more to do with a bottle of Stoli than anything else.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Of course not everyone agrees that non-12 step sobriety

doesn't "count".

I'm not saying W. doesn't have some serious, even pathological problems.. But if the point is he's a "dry drunk" just because he's not regularly going to a certain brand of meeting, I break ranks there.

[miss_kitty]

23. i would not do a twelve step program if i needed one, because

of the religiosity thing that seems to be involved.
but the counter punch article mac56 links lists these as charateristics typically associate with someone known as a 'Dry Drunk':

"First, in this essay, we will look at the characteristics of the so-called "dry drunk;" then we will see if they apply to this individual, our president; and then we will review his drinking history for the record. What is the dry drunk syndrome? "Dry drunk" traits consist of:

* Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity
* Grandiose behavior
* A rigid, judgmental outlook
* Impatience
* Childish behavior
* Irresponsible behavior
* Irrational rationalization
* Projection
* Overreaction "


she goes on to say, with the exception of #1, GWB exhibits, to a great degree, these traits. and before he became president, i'm SURE #1 could be included.
my grampa was a drunk and received treatment at a recovery center, which included medical treatment. he did not do AA. And he was NOT a dry drunk. he was a 'recovering alcoholic'

it is an excellent, easy-to-read article. very informative.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. There was an article called "Bush on the Couch"

maybe 6-8 months ago, that basically said he exhibits signs of severe megalomania and psychosis.. Add to that the fact that we know he tortured small animals as a child, and behaves irrationally and sociopathically at inappropriate moments (Pumping his fist in the air and yelling "feels good" as the bombs began falling on Baghdad) ...I'd suspect that being a "dry drunk" is just the start of his issues. But you're right, whatever that is, he's probably one (if not a "wet drunk")... I don't doubt it, for a minute.

As far as the 12 step thing, we're on the same page, you & I-- I think AA works for lots of folks, but some can't get around the mandated religiosity, whatever semantic spin is put on it.. It's important to know, for people who do find continuing support useful and necessary, that there are also secular alternatives these days.

[barb162]

28. I didn't know this.

with this info, like torturing animals, etc., he sounds like a straight anti-social personality and since I don't particularly like being pc, he's a fucking sociopath. It fits, the lies, all the lies, the manipulation, through the years, he has to be a real sociopath. The fact his kids are the way they are, well what can you expect of them? A psychotic can't have normal kids when all they learn from the day they are born is abnormal behavior from the parents. And my suspicion is that George the First and "Ol' Bar" are anti social personality types too (that's where shrub got his behavior problems). What a bunch of sickos.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Let me get the links....

I guess "Bush on the Couch" is a book.

http://www.harpercollins.com/catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060736704

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060736704/002-4570573-8988022?v=glance

Among the other subjects Frank explores:

Bush's false sense of omnipotence, instilled within him during childhood and emboldened by his deep investment in fundamentalist religion

The president's history of untreated alcohol abuse, and the questions it raises about denial, impairment, and the enabling streak in our culture

The growing anecdotal evidence that Bush may suffer from dyslexia, ADHD, and other thought disorders

His comfort living outside the law, defying international law in his presidency as boldly as he once defied DUI statutes and military reporting requirements

His love-hate relationship with his father, and how it triggered a complex and dangerous mix of feelings including yearning, rivalry, anger, and sadism

Bush's rigid and simplistic thought patterns, paranoia, and megalomania -- and how they have driven him to invent adversaries so that he can destroy them



Here's one of the "Bush Blew Up Frogs" link:

http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-3nov2000-frogs.html

[barb162]

31. thank you very much

altho I don't know if I will be able to check out the animal torture stuff...I am too much of an animal lover for that.

But what I was reading just above with "rigid and simplistic thought patterns" and defiance of laws really fits with a diagnosis of sociopathic behavior. The shrinks still have no way of fixing those people because they sit there in the chair and just lie to the shrinks.

[pagerbear]

25. I don't believe anyone said THAT is why he seems like a dry drunk

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Okay, then forget it.

Although it's admittedly something of a 12 step term, as I understand it. To wit: "Dry drunk is a slang term used by members and supporters of Alcoholics Anonymous and substance abuse counselors to describe the recovering alcoholic who is no longer drinking, one who is dry, but whose thinking is clouded. Such an individual is said to be dry but not truly sober. Such an individual tends to go to extremes."

Why not just say he's a kook, with deep-seated psychological problems? I think his problems go way beyond mere dry-drunkeness. There's the frog torturing, for example..

[barb162]

16. the twins don't act their age

they act more like giggling high school or grammar school kids than college grads.

Probably runs in the family that they take a much longer than usual time to grow up than their peers. The way that family operates, the twins know no matter what they do, they will still get first jobs where they don't have to work and will get paid 200,000 a year. Bush can't teach them anything because he knows nothing else...his parents raised him the same way.

[ikojo]

20. Children of the wealthy do tend to have a prolonged

adolescence because they do not HAVE to go out into the real world and earn a living. They have time to "find themselves" and such. In Bush's world it is not unusual for the offspring to delay adult responsibilities until their 30s or even 40s.

[skygazer]

17. I remember in 2000

He said something about how he doesn't want the girls to have to think about serious stuff - "what's important is that they have fun" was the quote that made me shake my head. Personally, I've raised my three kids to be responsible adults, to take responsibility for their actions, to care about the world and their place in it and to take a place as a concerned citizen of this country.

But why should they do something he hasn't?

[librechik]

21. He's a Repukkke. People with problems need to shut up and help themselves

Don't give him that BS about heredity. He was able to "just quit"

Let's not talk about it anymore, k? You're making Georgie's head hurt.

[PittPoliSci]

26. genetic?

i never knew that. that really sucks.

[Baja Margie]

30. Um,

According to Dr. Frank, of GWU, Bush is an untreated alcoholic. He states, " Bush...fits the profile of a former drinker whose alcoholism has been arrested but not treated."

So, obviously, he's in some sort of state of denial, not only pertaining to himself, but pertaining to his family members. The girls 'acting out' and brushes with intoxication is a red flag, an indication that something is seriously wrong in the Bush household. Could be lack of communication. But whatever it is, it sure isn't healthy.