When A Teacher Abuses Your Child

[Zomby Woof]

I have my good friend's permission to post this question. She is pressing charges concerning the issue in question, and taking on the slimeball bureaucrats who tried to dissuade her legal action and playing the usual game of CYA (or CTA - Cover the Teacher's Ass). I would have done the same thing as my friend, and I let her know it.

Here goes with her question...

If your child's teacher grabbed your child so hard that it bruised your child, what would you do?


Your thoughts, please... much appreciated!

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. what is the context of the grab?

where on the body, what was the child doing ect.

[Zomby Woof]

9. I am hesitant to give specifics

But assume that your child is NOT a disciplinary problem, and has NEVER caused any problems in school.

And also assume that the teacher in question has had a history of this kind of behavior, with nothing more than a minor reprimand by the district, mainly because parents were intimidated or suckered into bargaining.

[7th_Sephiroth]

11. without actually knowing the full story

i cant give accurate advice, but i dont think the parents should cave to the school, and demand this teachers resignation

[Zomby Woof]

19. see my reply to Walt Whitman

This is ABUSE, not accidentally hurting the child in a helping situation.

[7th_Sephiroth]

20. and the child was not out of controll?

than my previous advice stands

[Zomby Woof]

24. not even close

[sir_captain]

2. They would never teach again

and I would go after them with a bat

[Guy Fawkes]

3. I've seen it happen at school, and I swear...

sometimes, the kid deserves it. Kids can lead very different lives at school, so never beleive completely what the mother says about her innocent kid.

I'd sit down with the teacher and find out what exatly happened.

[wolfgirl]

4. Talk to the child...get their version.

Talk to the teacher...get their version.

Then, has my child complained or told stories or expressed concerns about the teacher prior to this. Or, expressed concerns re: the class in general.

Do I trust my child...that would mean a ton (we know sometimes our
kids can be rather creative to get their way, but we should know when something is real or not).

Talk with other parents...similar concerns come up with their children?

Once I had some more information, then I'd have a better feeling for what should be done.

[BigMcLargehuge]

5. depends on the situation ZW

I occasionally had to yank a kid out of harms way when I was a teacher. I mean like from a swarm of wasps he just enraged, or because a car was pulling into the parking lot and the kid wasn't keenly aware that he was about to get squished.

In both cases there were black and blue fingerprints left on the kids arm.

I've also had to physically restrain kids who were having conniption fits and endangering other kids or teachers.

In those cases there were sometimes bruises where he struggled against being held and calmed.

In all cases I spoke immediately with the parents with regard to the incident.

What were the circumstances that led to the bruising in the case you mentioned?

[Zomby Woof]

12. in this case

The teacher felt a student was being disrespectful. Again, not to get specific, this was a severe overreaction to what would be a VERY MINOR infraction.

If the punishment is supposed to fit the crime, this was way out of bounds!

I qualify my replies by saying I taught high school for 6 years. I know when a teacher crosses the line.

[BigMcLargehuge]

13. Without further specifics I am unable to give an answer

[Zomby Woof]

16. let me try this

If your child made a noise, the way youngsters of a certain single-digit age are wont...

And the teacher reprimanded the wrong student, with physical evidence to boot... now how would you react?

Please also see my replies to other posters for a more complete picture.

[BigMcLargehuge]

23. it still depends on the situation

I can see a situation where the teacher grabbed the kid to focus his/her attention and left a bruise. I can see a situation where the teacher was angry and grabbed a kid and left a bruise. I can see a situation where the teacher grabbed the kid and the ensuing struggle caused the bruises...

I don't know. Find out of the teacher has any discipline reports on his/her record.

Find out from the others kids what happened. Talk to the teacher about what happened.

Sometimes these things are accidents.

Maybe the school is covering the teacher's ass because it needs to be covered and he/she isn't in the wrong... I don't know.

Sounds like lots of investigation needs to be done before anything else.

[Zomby Woof]

25. the important thing is...

We're just combing for the various replies for helpful input. Considering the narrow info I provided, you did good! :-)

Now, have you all decided on a name for Ms. LittleMcSmallTiny?

[BigMcLargehuge]

32. the poll results fell heavily in favor of Viviene Rose

which is the name of my great aunt on my dad's side. She's also the matriarch of that part of the family now.

I am still lobbying for Maya or Keiko, but I love the name Vivien Rose.

So we are still in the initial excitement of finding a good name.

But that's how it shakes out.

[Zomby Woof]

40. I like that

My late grandmother's name was Rosalie Marie, and she went by Rose. So I associate that pleasantly. I say go with it, especially being a family name.

[Kire]

17. why aren't you getting specific?

is the teacher a DUer?

all you need to do is leave out the names, then we could give you a real answer

[henslee]

27. My sis, a teacher said it's parents responsibility to report this behavior

First off, the first rule of effective teaching is giving kids an environment they feel safe in.. Second, the consequences of sweeping it under rug could mean another kid getting hurt but not being so lucky to just get away with a slight bruise... as well as the school being liable for thousands in a lawsuit. She doubts this is a one time thing and said there's probably other instances in his/her past. End.

[Zomby Woof]

28. thanks!

Good reply.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. I'd go find out what happened

I'd want to know the context, the whys and wherefores.

And if the teacher was clearly out of control and in the wrong, I'd go after him/her.

I wouldn't start with an immediate lawsuit - I'd talk to the child and especially talk to the teacher and find out what happened.

Though i'd have to say that unless the teacher needed to grab the child hasrshly in order to save him/her from a bus or train or chemical spill, or some out of control but accidental roughhousing in gym class, I can't imagine any other reason for why an arm would get bruised.

[politicat]

7. ask for my child to be moved to another classroom and request

a disciplinary hearing for the teacher. Take it to the school board.

We had a problem similar with my stepdaughter - her teacher swatted her. Since the district had a corporal opt in punishment policy that we did not opt in to (K. did not need corporal punishment) the teacher "forgot" that K was not included in the opt in.

You do not delegate as a parent the right for others to handle your children in ways you would not handle them yourself. (and even ways you might, but still don't delegate... no one has the right to cut a child's hair, for example...)

Good luck for your friend.

Pcat

[MarianJack]

8. My Wife and I are Teachers...

...(allbeit that my economy turned the corner to the unemployment line) and we say go for the bastard's throat. We don't even touch the students except for handshakes, pats on the back & high fives.

[MuseRider]

10. Need to know more.

Sorry.

If it was a case of grabbing him before he hurt someone else or the teacher or himself then I would have to know more.

If it was discipline I would go after them. There is no need for bruising a child as a disciplinary measure.

[Zomby Woof]

14. the child was non-violent

In fact, if I were the teacher, I would have laughed it off with a "nice try!". It was THAT minor.

I am really trying to be helpful with my replies, and not jeopardize my friend's privacy at the same time. Sorry if I am not as clear as I would like to be.

And :hi: RainbowConnection!

[MuseRider]

22. I seems there was no reason

at all for this then. I remember my kids Kindergarten teacher who was the sweetest, most loveable woman in the world tell me that she was not even allowed to hug the kids. It killed her but that was the way it was. So, I would go after the teacher. As much as I support teachers who have one of the hardest jobs in the world there seems to be no reason for this type of action.

:hi: ZombyHug :hug:

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

15. Depends.

I dislocated my nephew's arm once, forcefully yanking him back before he stepped in front of a car. My brother the cop had the incident documented six ways to Sunday and went to the ER with us. The CPS people still interrogated me and my nephew separately. It looked like a classic abuse injury -- yanking a kid in anger. It wasn't.

Was the teacher restraining the child from danger or trying to remove the child from a situation (were they pitching a fit or something)?

Or was it a personality conflict of some kind that the teacher reacted to by grabbing the kid and shaking?

It all depends. You need both sides of the story.

[Zomby Woof]

18. please read all posts

You will find many helpful answers.

My thread title says ABUSE, not "hurting a child by accident".

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

21. I'll go back and read the whole thread, ZW.

But my point was that something can look like abuse (such as the classic abuse injury I gave my little nephew) but not be caused by abuse. If my nephew hated me, he could've told a lie in the ER and I'd have been in serious legal trouble.

I'd be very careful to have both sides before I destroyed a teacher's career. That's all I'm saying.

But I will go back and read the whole thread. Thanks. :)

[Zomby Woof]

26. destroy all you want!

As a former teacher, I found I loathed most of my colleagues anyway. ;-)

[LWolf]

35. Hey....

just which side of "most" am I on? :hi:

If this had happened to one of my sons, I would have moved him to a different school, not just classroom, and then asked for a disciplinary hearing. Moving him to a classroom on the same site would set him up for discrimination, once I became known as a "pain in the ass" parent.

In 13 years of school for 2 sons, we had great teachers, mediocre teachers, and teachers I didn't care for. Happily, most were good. No teacher "grabbed" or assaulted my sons. There were 2 teachers who just plain didn't like them; I wish I'd listened and moved them to another classroom.

I've "grabbed" kids a couple of times; both times to prevent an injury. I don't know if I left bruises or not. I've never "grabbed" to prevent violence to another student, but I have stepped in between and backed an assaulter away.

Somehow, I haven't needed to resort to that sort of thing to get their attention. :eyes:

[Zomby Woof]

37. well, obviously

You are on the GOOD side (along with Uly and our other DU teachers).

Unless you all engage in Teacher's Lounge banter about how swell the Republicans are, or similarly stupid chit-chat, you have NOTHING to worry about. :-)

[LWolf]

38. Lol

I'm safe. I have never engaged in Teacher's lounge banter celebrating republicans. There are a few who do, in my lounge; I guess it's to be expected in the AV.

But that tide is turning, too. My first day of "staff development," we did a cute little exercise ranking a list of "famous people" as international thinkers/citizens. In a room full of teachers, Mother Theresa and Nelson Mandela tied for first place. GWB and Osama tied for last place.

[MercutioATC]

29. Lawsuits: against the school and the teacher personally.

I'm not a "Sue 'em!" type of person but I've read the entire thread and that's my answer. Sometimes, a lawsuit is the only way to make changes.

I've gone out of my way to teach my son that physical violence rarely makes a situation better. This teacher would have been undoing what I was trying to teach as a parent while breaking the law. I have very little sympathy for that.

I also wouldn't be likely to make concessions. This teacher has a history of this kind of behavior. The school chose to retain them regardless. Even if a resignation of the teacher were offered, I'd be reluctant to drop the action.

I believe in social Darwinism. I tip great servers 40%+. I tip REALLY bad servers pennies. I do this because I believe that, in most cases, money is the deciding factor. I want good servers to succeed and bad servers to do so poorly that they seek another occupation. The same holds true here. Costing the teacher money will force them to rethink the way they deal with their students or quit. Costing the school money will force them to more closely review and monitor teachers' practices.

As much as it galls me to say it, I'd say SUE 'EM.

[ulysses]

30. just get input from *all* sides.

It's not at all unusual for kids in my school to try to get a teacher they dislike fired by falsely claiming abuse.

Abuse happens, surely. Just be careful.

[Zomby Woof]

this teacher has a history

But it always gets swept under the rug through sweet talk and persuausion.

Although I do know what you say is true... but in this case, there is some BACKGROUND. We are talking a sadistic person here.

[Zomby Woof]

36. this teacher has a history

But it always gets swept under the rug through sweet talk and persuausion.

Although I do know what you say is true... but in this case, there is some BACKGROUND. We are talking a sadistic person here.

[rhino47]

31. There is no reason for a child to be harmed by a teacher in school

If my child came home with bruises I would call the police file a report.Its called assault.I would not tolerate any form of punishment that results in bruising.Worse thing is the example it sets for the students.Resolve conflict with violence.Theres enough of that message in a childs life without having it reenforced in the classroom.
My daughter was physically abused on more then one occassion at school by a boy in her class.I went through the channels the first three times.The only time I got any resolution was when I called the police after letting the child/parents and school admin that was my next course of action.

[davsand]

33. Funny how experience changes your views.

Last year at this time I'd have counseled a talk with the teacher and a meeting with the administrator later if needed. However, last year my first grader went thru hell with an older teacher who did something similar.

The first inkling we had of any issue was when our child began to have bad dreams and began to dread school. We talked to her several times about school and always she told us it was "ok." (This is a kid that went thru a coupld of pre-schools and Kindergarden with no dosciplinary issues beyond the usual talking when she was supposed to be listnening a couple of times...)

The final straw came when she home crying and begged me not to make her go back. I'll never forget this, she said that the teacher is "The Daughter of Satan" (Not a term any of us use at home--so I knew she'd been talking to some other kid about it!)

Kidlette tells me that the teacher had grabbed a kid by the arm and dragged him away to time out. I ask what was happening at the time and she tells me the kid had knocked over a tower of blocks on another kid's desk. Kidlette says she is so afraid of the teacher that she can't even think stright when she's in that classroom.

My husband and I both went in and met with that teacher the very next day. My husband is MUCH more diplomatic than I am, and I made sure that I kept myself under control for that conversation--ALL we wanted was a resolution to the problem.

Teacher spent about 30 minutes teling us how kids today have a terrible lack of attention span and how none of them understand discipline. Hubby finally cut in and told teacher that we sympathize with her difficulties but that all we were interested in was helping OUR kid--WHAT should/could we all be doing? We told teacher that our kid was afraid of her.

We put together a plan with the teacher--and all was well for a while.

Then we get a note home that our kid is having issues with her "concentration" and that we need to go to a meeting with the teacher.

Hubby and I both go, and we tell the teacher--yet again--that kidlette says she's so afraid of the teacher that she can't concentrate at all. Teacher says she thinks kidlette is maybe ADD/HD, and that she needs to go on Ritalin.

THAT is probably the ONE thing that lady could have said that is guaranteed to send me spitting into a rage. I did the entire program for teaching certification, and I have BEEN in classrooms with kids and I've been in the teachers' staff room to hear them verbally assasinate kids there.

I KNOW what ADD/HD looks like in a lot of cases, and I just don't see it in my kid. Just to be sure, I talked to her after school care provider--a former Spe Ed teacher, and a specialist in early ed. Nope--she doesn't see a problem either. I checked with her Kindergarden teacher--nope, no problems (Incidently, her Kindergarden teacher still sees my kid every day for one period to teach computer skills in the computer lab.)

My next step was to get some info on my rights as a parent. With THAT info in hand I called and set up a meeting with the Administrator.

My first step was to establish that my kid is afraid in school. I tell the admin this is NOT acceptable. I then say that my kid is afraid of the TEACHER. I explain to the admin that I realize that my kid is only six, and she may lack the vocabulary to explain stuff like test anxiety or other social issues, but that I do feel she is legitimately afraid of something or someone.

I then tell the admin that I have been counseled to contact the state Dept of Children and Family Services (the folks responsible for investigating child abuse reports.) I tell him I really don't want to do that to a long time teacher's reputation unless I absolutely have to.

I tell him that I have considered requesting the school pay for a social worker to come in and observe the classroom setting and how it pertains to my kid (at the district expense, mind you!) Admin flinched at that thought. I also tell him that I am reluctant to have that in my kids' file this early in her school career. Admin happily agrees that it is too early for THAT to happen, so we are left with a discussion of what to do next.

I tell him that I want to come in and observe for a while and see if I can see anything alarming in the classroom or in my kid's behavior. He tells me that the dynamic will change with my presence and I tell him I am aware of it--but the only other recourse is a report to DCFS that is not backed up with any real evidence and that is just terribly unfair to that "poor teacher"...

He says he'll tel the teacher to expect me.

I spent the next day in my kid's first grade classroom. Lotta kids watching me and wondering what is going on. I talk to all the other teachers in the school about what do THEY encounter when they deal with my kid--any issues? Anything I need to know about that would indicate why she says she is afraid of her teacher? Nope--nothing from any of them. Do they see any issues with my kid's behaviors? IS she giving them any problems? Nope--nothing..

Day two--I'm back again.

Day three--I get a phone call from one of the other parents. She says she isn't sure what is going on--but THANK YOU for going in--her kid is not afraid when another adult is there. I say--AFRAID??? She tells me this has been an issue with her kid all year long... I tell her what is going on with my kid, and find out a couple of more kids have been afraid as well. (AT least FOUR kids out of a class of fourteen are scared shitless of this old bag!)

Day four, I have a quiet chat with the teacher and I tell her that she has a choice--I can stay in the classroom with her AND the kids for the rest of the school year

OR I can call DCFS,

OR I can take it back to the school board as a whole--but that if I do it I have at least three other sets of parents going with me,

OR she can clean her act up for the balance of the school year with the realization that ANY more issues will mean that DCFS gets SEVERAL calls from different families.

We finished the school year out with no further problems.

Now, the lessons I learned from all this are as follows:

1. Even if your kid says it is ok, it may not be.
2. NEVER meet with just the teacher if you go in for anything other than a routine parent teacher conference--always have the admin there.
3. Network with the other parents of kids in that class. Find out how THEY are doing.
4. Don't be afraid to go balls to the wall if it is what you have to do for your kid. I was reluctant to do it at first--but in retrospect I wish I'd followed my gut sooner.

I really think that by terrorizing the admin first THEN "chatting" with the teacher I got a lot further faster. I also think that they realized I was not kidding. They knew I was gonna be in that classroom for the rest of the year, or I was gonna cost them a bucnh of money or else I was gonna take down that teacher with a child abuse complaint.

Either way, the problem was stopped and that was all I wanted for my kid.

Hope it helps to know your buddy is not alone, Zomby!


Laura

[MrSandman]

34. Depending on the context...

If I believed it meets the legal definition (in WVa) of maltreatment, I would (and have) called CPS.

If I do not believe it meets the definition of maltreatment, I will protest to school and BOE with threats of CPS complaints(even if unfounded, it is a big hassle for BOE)

If it were in preventing harm to others or worse harm to my child(like grabbing from a fight or running in front of a car), I would discipline my child and thank the teacher.

In two words

It depends.

[AngryAmish]

39. This is why I will never be a teacher

Boys especially need some fear from authority figures. I had the typical catholic school yardstick/ruler blows, hair pulls, ear pulls (thankyouverymuch Mrs. Fischer) and the like. And I was a good kid compared to most.

Now, I will get flamed for glorifying violence or the like, but I was a boy once. I remember how fear can be a master motivator.

If kids think that they can get out of trouble in school by ratting their teacher out they will do it in a second.

[LWolf]

41. If you instill fear as a motivator

during childhood, you need to accept that fear will be unavoidable, at some level, for the life of the child.

Why was Bush able to suppress dissent so easily during his term? How has fear influenced so many people since 9/11?

There are so many ways to motivate the young; fear isn't really necessary.

My students, should someone try to "rat me out" unfairly, would be my first and loudest defenders. We accomplish that by establishing a climate of mutual respect and care, where fear has no place.