Leslie Van Houten should get parole, anyone agree?

[jbane]

[Magrittes Pipe]

1. What an odd thing to post.

[terrya]

3. She was just up for parole. And parole was denied.

And, no, I don't think she should be. Hell, let's just let Charlie out as well, if we let her out.

[JohnKleeb]

6. agreed

She was just as bad as Charlie, and in fact unlike Charlie actually killed people, no sympathy for her.

[jbane]

50. I was curious to see if...

I was curious to see if anyone still pays attention to any news about this case. Also, I figured if she was going to get any support for her release it stands a good chance of showing up here.

[babylon_system]

2. Only if her cell is required by Condi Rice n/t

[JVS]

4. Poor Milhouse, growing up with no mom

[JohnKleeb]

7. Thats Luanne

I think Leslie is his bad ass aunt :).

[ohiosmith]

5. No! I don't agree. Let her rot in life and again in hell.

[calico1]

8. No.

I think she is sorry for what she did, as is Patricia Krenwinkle. I feel bad for her because I know she is sorry. I do not think that if she were living next door to me I'd have anything to worry about. But the fact is if her original sentence had been carried out, she would have been dead many, many years ago. The fact that she got life is a bonus in itself and enough as far as I am concerned. She did what she did and Rosemary LoBianco will never get another chance.

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. Nope. You do the crime, you do the time.

She's lucky her sentence was commuted.

[VOX]

10. No. She truly committed the crime. Her punishment is life in prison.

No miscarriage of justice here. I do not believe in capital punishment, but I do believe in life imprisonment for heinous crimes. The premeditated and prolonged stabbings that occurred on those two nights in 1969 were unforgivingly brutal. There was no spur of the moment loss of temper, no heat of passion, no extenuating circumstances. Just cold blood. Nothing can change the magnitude of the horror of these murders.

She will have to (literally) continue to live with what she chose to do, and to accept her time in prison as the consequence of those choices she made.

[ronnykmarshall]

11. At times I think yes.

But when I see a picture of this woman, I say no. Rosemary LaBianca was murdered in cold blood.

I truly feel that Leslie has remorse in her heart for what she did. I also don't think she is the monster that she once was, but I just can't see her out of prison.

She and Pat Krinwinkle are the only two Manson followers that I believe when they say they have remorse.

Both Susan Atkins and Tex Watson have "found the lord" and recanted various parts of the story of the murder of Sharon Tate. Atkins once bragged that she killed Sharon and now she says Tex did it. Tex suddenly has backed up Susan's story (probably to try and get her out on parole). Watson also has married and fathered children with his wife all of who are on public assistance or supported by his "ministry". Sounds like a couple of con artist to me. (they learned from the best)

As for Charlie ...... it will be great day to know that my tax dollars are no longer supporting this asshole to live.

[devilgrrl]

26. I couldn't agree with you more...

eom

[johnnie]

12. It's really a tough call for me

One the first hand, what she did was horrific and she should do her time. One the other hand, I have no doubt in my mind that she is sorry for what she did and really seemed to be under some kind of control of Manson and some of the others.
I feel sorry for her when I see her on the hearings, but what good would it do to release her? Maybe she could do some good in society, I don't think she is a threat (although she probably has more of a threat being released).
Those were some messed up people for sure though, and I don't really think there is an excuse. But I have also heard of people committing just as horrific crimes and doing a bit of time and being released.

[ronnykmarshall]

13. Well put.

I agree with what you said. Also I think Leslie would be in danger if she were released.

I've read a lot about this cause and the aftermath. Among people associated with the victims and people involved, there is almost an expectation that out of any of the murders, Van Houten would be most likely to be released. There is almost a "if we had to pick" feeling about it.

I tend to agree.

It's amazing that this story still holds such interest and emotion so many years later.

I was only 8 years old when it happened. I still remember it so vividly.

[DrWeird]

14. I'd rather see Manson paroled.

Van Houten actually killed people.

[ronnykmarshall]

15. Yeah, like he's not a threat.

Gimme a break.

[JohnKleeb]

16. of course he is because he can organize people

none of thsoe deserve parole IMO.

[ronnykmarshall]

19. Scary thought

is that there olenty of freaks out there that would follow him.

Hell, Sandra Good lives in Hanford, CA near the prison. She's be the first one to great him if he got out.

[JohnKleeb]

20. yeah the whole cult following

Same thing with Richard "Night Stalker" Ramirez, how that man has groupies puzzles me to death, he was a fucking freak. Is Squeaky Fromme still in jail? Manson though I think he was nothing more than a pimp should remain in jail until he dies, he'll start a new cult, and he again will be a publicity hound.

[ronnykmarshall]

22. The Squeakster is still in jail.

She'll never be out. Attempted assination of a US President is life with out parole.

That's another loon.

[JohnKleeb]

25. good, good

I may be vehemently against the death penalty but I believe serial murders should never have a chance to get out, and I have no sympathy for those who get excuted like Bundy or those who get killed in prison like Dahmer.

[ronnykmarshall]

27. There was show a while back

that had interviews with Fromme, Krenwinkle, Van Houton and Good. Squeaky is STILL a mess as is Sandra Good. Krenwinkle and Van Houton are the only ones that seemed to be sane at all.

Then of course there is a separate catagory for ol' Chuck. Half of his "crazy" act is just that an act.

[JohnKleeb]

30. I need to read Helter Skelter

I bought the book a while ago but like many of the things I buy, I never get to reading it because I am reading other stuff.

[ronnykmarshall]

31. Amazing book.

It will scare the crap out of ya. Plus you'll laugh at some of the screw ups by the LAPD.

[JohnKleeb]

35. Ive read about Dahmer, Ed Kemper, Dennis Nielsen etc

I am prepared for the worst.

[Carolina]

54. the descriptions of the butchery in it

will make you a firm believer in either the death penalty or life in prison meaning life in prison PERIOD.

[ronnykmarshall]

57. I was unluckily to see the photos.

Oh my god. I didn't go looking for them, but I was doing a web search and the photos from the crime scenes came up.

They are repulsive. What those people went through in their last moments of life must have been horrible.

[ronnykmarshall]

28. Dupe.

[ronnykmarshall]

29. Another dupe

Uh oh, Charlie's powers did it! :silly:

[DrWeird]

17. That's right. He does have the mystic power of hypontization.

He's kind of like an evil Professor X.

[ronnykmarshall]

18. On second thought

parole the asshole. I'm sure Col. Tate has hit out on him. His ass would be pushing up clover faster than you could play "Helter Sketler".

[DrWeird]

21. A bit ironic, that.

Because convincing somebody to kill somebody else is pretty much what Manson did.

[ronnykmarshall]

24. Cry me a river over Manson.

:nopity:

[calico1]

23. Actually, technically speaking..

its possible and maybe probable (according to her defenders) that she didn't actually kill anyone. First of all, she was the only one of the accused that did not particiapte on the first night of killing. So she had nothing at all to do with the murders at the Tate home. Secondly, according to her and others' accounts, she was told at the LaBianca home that she had to "do something." Charlie wanted everyone's hands to have blood on them. But when she was told to go and "do something" Tex Watson had already gotten to Mrs. LaBianca and she had already been stabbed multiple times. So it is possible that by the time Leslie stabbed her she was already dead. It is because of this and the fact that she did not participate in the Tate murders that she is considered the most "parolable."

My problem, and the problem that I think a lot of people have is since Rosemaray was stabbed many times, no one will ever really know which wounds caused her death. It could be that Tex Watson stabbed her and somehow she was still alive by the time Leslie got to her. Then again she could have been dead already as Leslie's defenders say. But the fact that she was willing to go and "do something" tells me that she would have whether or not Mrs. LaBianca (or anyone else) had still been alive. So the intent was definitely there. The fact that she may not have "technically" killed anyone doesn't change the fact that she was a willing participant. And to me that makes her as guilty as anyone else.

[Xithras]

32. She was alive, and she helped hold her down

Holding someone down so another can stab them is just as murderous as stabbing them yourself.

Besides, Van Houten once made a comment about being fascinated while watching the handle of the fork wiggle around after plunging it into LaBianca's stomach. The fact that the weapon was "wiggling around" pretty much indicates that she was alive...dead people don't move.

[ronnykmarshall]

34. That was Leno

The fork was stuck in Leno's stomach.

[Xithras]

42. Gah, sorry. This all happened before I was even born...

...so it's all history book material to me. I guess I got the murders confused.

[jbane]

37. All good points!

Everything you said is well thought out. The only reason I'm for Van Houten getting out is she meets every condition of someone who should be released. Her association with Manson haunts her to this day. Leslie herself said she "helped make him (Manson) who he is."
Also, the next generation of law enforcement should uphold the decisions of the previous.

[calico1]

38. One thing I will say...

If the government has no intention of letting someone out on parole they should not go through the motions of going through all these parole hearings. VanHouten has completed every program available to her that is supposed to help her get parole. All these people should have been told that life in prison meant just that. They should not be having all these parole hearings which hurts family members of the victims and raises false hopes for the inmates. Nobody wins. If they have no intention of ever letting them out then let's not play this game.

As for the wiggling and still being alive, I belive that was Leno, Rosemary's husband. Rosemary was supposedly already dead or close to it by the time Leslie stabbed her. I am not in favor of her being paroled, just stating the reasons why her supporters feel she has a stronger case for it. As I said before, the fact that she was willing to do whatever was asked of her indicates to me that had she been asked to stab Rosemary all by herself she probably would have.

[Butterflies]

33. I agree

She had already done more time than she would've done in a less publicized murder case.

[Mike Daniels]

41. Technically, she should have been worm food for at least 24 years now

She got lucky once and it was more than any of them deserved.

The only reason for the remorse now is because she's still in prison.

[Mr.Green93]

36. Sure

can she stay with you?

[Rowdyboy]

39. No

Not now, not ever.

[skygazer]

40. No

No second chances for the people she helped murder. As for remorse, hell, it's easy to feel remorse when you get caught. I wonder how much remorse any of these people would have felt had they gotten away with it.

[chiburb]

43. Is this a Freeper post?

I mean there's no reason given in the OP, and the OPer hasn't responded at all. Wazupwithat?

[jbane]

45. No Freeper...

DEFINITELY not a Freeper. I just wanted to see if there was any interest in this. It's an old case and these possible (slim as they are) paroles are about all that is left until all those involved die.

[Mandate My Ass]

44. The ultimate goal of criminal justice is to rehabilitate

as well as punish. She accepts responsibility and her remorse is genuine. I believe she is rehabilitated, but has she been punished enough? :shrug:

The parole board doesn't think so, and personally I believe she'll never draw a free breath for the rest of her natural life. Same for Krenwinkle.

[ronnykmarshall]

46. Leslie might get out one day.

Krenwinkle and the others will never get out. As long as the victims families keep fighting, it safe to say that none of the Manson gang will ever be paroled.

[mitchum]

47. Since she now looks like a Women's Studies professor instead...

of a nubile hippiecheck...I have to vote no.
Bad jokes aside, she should not get parole. Hey, she was in the LaBianca house. I believe that she IS truly remorseful, but that's why they call it a penitentiary.

[blondeatlast]

48. She wasn't convicted in Killer George's Texas;

if that makes you feel better.

No one who was in that house should see the outside of prison walls.

Murder for kicks and giggles?

I may be vociferously against the death penalty, but I got no problem with life imprisonment for cold-blooded killers.

Somehow I doubt you've ever known a murder victim or their family. I have.

[jbane]

49. You are right...

I don't know anyone who is close to me who was a murder victim. I'm sure if I did I would have a different viewpoint. The argument to keep Van Houten in prison for the rest of her life is stronger than the argument to parole her.

[Mandate My Ass]

51. The reason we have a criminal justice system

rather than vigilante justice is because reason, rather than emotion, better serves the public interest.

Once a person has been punished, rehabilitated and is no longer a threat to society at large, it serves no purpose whatsoever to keep them incarcerated.

People who have committed worse croimes than LVH are paroled every day. Sometime it's a mistake, sometime it's not. She will most probably remain behind bars forever because nobody wants to be known as the person who let a Manson family member go free. No doubt the crimes were horrendous and the victims suffered horrifically and the heinous nature of the crime should be taken into account, but at some point reason should be balanced against the visceral and ultimately useless need for vengeance.

Personally, I know two people who have lost family members to murderers and neither of them feel that it serves society or their beloveds' memory to see the perpetrator punished beyond what the rule of law indicates.

[Bluzmann57]

55. Please explain to me who has ever commited a crime worse than

Van Houten's who is out on parole? As I stated in another post, she should never ever be let out. She was a cold blooded killer and as such, must not get out. "Thou Shalt not Kill" is at the top of the list and for very good reason. No, VanHouten, Krenwinkle, Atkins, Watson, Fromme, and especially Manson cannot be set free, rehab or not. When a person takes another person's life in the manner she did, life in prison should mean exactly that. Murder is the worst crime of all.

[Mandate My Ass]

58. I used to think my opinions and

emotional needs and moral outrage were the most important criteria to be taken into account in matters that affected me much less than society at large, then I got over myself. :eyes:

I don't have to explain anything to anybody. The state is supposed to mete out justice, not biblical vengeance based on Judeo Christian myths.

Maybe you can educate and enlighten yourself by reading Cesare Beccaria. It would be a better starting point than the Old Testament in dealing with matters that require cool heads.

[Carolina]

52. Never

The Tate and La Bianca murders were awful. The perps were all sentenced to die until CA's death penalty was overturned. They should serve their life sentences in full.

Ask the victim's relatives. Sorry, I guess you can't since I recall that Sharon Tate's mother was never the same and died heartbroken!

[ronnykmarshall]

56. Sharon's mom was a fighter.

She died of a brian tummor I believe. But she was a very strong advocate for victims rights. I've seen video of her reading Tex Watkins the riot act at one of his parol hearings. She was one tough lady.

After her death, Patti Tate (Sharon's sister) took over. Sadly Patti died of breast cancer.

Now Debra Tate (I think she's the youngest daughter of the Mr. and Mrs. Tate) is working for victims rights. She is a pistol! I've gotten an e-mail via a woman that works with Debra and she is her mama's daughter. Feisty and ready take on the world.

The Tate family really took the bull by the horns and won't let Sharon death stop them.

They are all true gems.

[Bluzmann57]

53. NO!

She commited some of the most horrible murders in history, had no remorse for them, and should never, ever get out. The Manson Family were pure evil and there is no place in society for them. Keep every one of them locked up until they die.