Fat activists protest diet industry

[CO Liberal]

Fat activists protest diet industry

Monday, August 2, 2004 Posted: 10:42 PM EDT (0242 GMT)


Kelly Bliss, a self-described "full-figured fitness instructor," conducts a fitness class in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Unashamed of their size, fed up with fat jokes, and angry at the national obsession with dieting, overweight activists are mounting a feisty protest movement against what it calls the medical establishment's campaign against obesity.

"We're living in the middle of a witch hunt and fat people are the witches," said Marilyn Wann of San Francisco, a militant member of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. "It's gotten markedly worse in the last few years because of the propaganda that fatness, a natural human characteristic, is somehow a form of disease."

The association, known as NAAFA, holds its annual convention starting Wednesday in Newark, New Jersey, bringing together activists for social events and workshops on self-acceptance, political advocacy and the "fat liberation" movement.

"I hope we can be a viable force of sanity in the midst of hysteria," said NAAFA spokeswoman Mary Ray Worley of Madison, Wisconsin. "I've found allies in all kinds of unexpected places, but overall there's a lot of animosity. Some people act like obesity is the next worst thing after terrorism."

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/diet.fitness/08/02/fat.activism.ap/index.html

[pagerbear]

1. What sort of responses are you expecting?

[CO Liberal]

2. Well...

Speaking as someone who has been involved in the Size Acceptance Movement for many years (and the husband of a woman who weighs over 300 pounds), I would hope people would read this article and come away with the realization that fat people are not put on this earth to be everyone's whipping boy or laughing stock - that they deserve the same respect, dignity, and employment opportunities as anyone else.

[DS1]

3. I do have to ask

How long can a self-proclaimed full-figured fitness instructor stay in business as such, or realize she's really not in a position to instruct in the first place - whichever comes first.

It's got a "Lt. George W. Bush Aviation School" thing about it I can't quite put my finger on...

[pagerbear]

5. So then you're suggesting

...that one has to be waif-thin or buffed out to be a fitness instructor? Who wrote that rule?

[Bertha Venation]

16. Good question.

Look at any NFL team's offensive line. :shrug:

[DS1]

18. I'm suggesting that years and years upon years

might help someone attain the goal of relative weight proportion.

[CO Liberal]

22. Here's a Picture of Kelly Bliss

Source: http://www.kellybliss.com/

She looks fairly proportional to me.....

[Misunderestimator]

56. Cool! She looks fine to me. Though I'd change the hair.

:)

Thanks for posting that.

[daisygirl]

57. And that's probably a big indicator of whether

larger people are healthy. (Proportion, that is.)

Taking me as an example - it's not healthy for me personally to be overweight. I gain it all around my belly rather than proportionately all over, which (in women, at any rate) is a major indicator for predisposition to diabetes, not to mention my family history of diabetes and the fact that my insulin metabolism is already faulty - or rather, it was a couple of years and 25 pounds ago. (Still have another 20 or so to go, but I'm content to let that take another couple of years rather than crash-diet it off and gain it right back.)

But the woman in that picture you posted? I think she looks great!

And even though I'm working at losing weight (well, not so much the past couple of months - I need to get back to working out!) it drives me completely batshit that fat is one of the handful of things that's still socially acceptable as a basis for discrimination.

[CO Liberal]

59. Welcome to DU, Daisygiry!!!

:hi:

[CO Liberal]

7. So Far, She's Been in Business For At Least Ten Years

I won one of Kelly Bliss's exercise tapes as a door prize for large people in Surburban Philadelphia in 1993. My wife still uses it.

Exercise is not all about weight loss. It's about building muscle, improving cardiac health, etc.

And not all thin people are healthy. Remember Jim Fixx, who wrote several books about long-distance running? He died suddenly one day when his heart EXPLODED.

[BiggJawn]

65. Yeah, but Jim's problem was genetics.

When he went for his last run, he was already the oldest-living male in the Fixx family. All his male relatives died early from heart problems.

I used to poke fun at him, but no more. He had guts.

[HippieCowgirl]

39. Four years and counting

I'm an AAFA certified personal trainer AND group fitness instructor. I specialize in working with "supersize" women, helping them gain more mobility, flexibility, and fitness.

I'm in high demand, and constantly busy.

[CO Liberal]

45. Welcome to DU, and GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!

:hi:

Supersize women don't need to be nagged, ridiculed, or discriminated against. They need to be understood, and treated with respect.

And it sounds like that's what you provide.

[pagerbear]

4. Oh, OK

I was preparing the acid for my pen if this should turn into a fat-bashing thread.

[Pithlet]

6. It will, eventually

They always do :(

[KurtNYC]

8. Being overweight is extremely dangerous

to your health. I don't condone anyone who would discriminate against people based on any aspect of their appearance so that is not what this is about. And in the past 2 months, I have given away over 200 copies of nutritional software to help people who are concerned about nutrition.

I understand the desire to push back against the pressure cooker of advertising and media hysteria but the bottom line is really that being severly overweight has horrible consequences. The cost of treating diabetes averages $18,000 per year. The cost of NOT treating it is amputation, blindness and premature death.

Certainly what we need is more understanding of this issue and less venom.

[Samurai_Writer]

9. Correction...

Being overweight is dangerous to SOME people. And can we stop with the hysterical wording (EXTREMELY dangerous?!? Oh please). This 5'10", 275# plus size model has perfect blood sugar readings, perfect cholesterol levels, perfect blood pressure, etc. I'm 43, a vegetarian and get a moderate amount of exercise (more when I have a steady lover! *wink*).

Diabetes' risk factors include being overweight but ANYONE with a family history of diabetes is more at risk than simply someone who is overweight and does not have a family history of this disease.

[CO Liberal]

11. Thank You, RadFemFL

:hi:

[KurtNYC]

13. How about to "MOST" people

Just about anyone can induce diabetes by overloading their pancreas. The incidence of Type 2 diabetes is exploding particularly in children.

And if you had ever lived with someone going blind and losing limbs to diabetes, you wouldn't think it was less than "extreme." I see how concerned you are about my relatives - glad you are self-satisfied.

[Samurai_Writer]

15. Three generations of people with diabetes...

in my family. My grandmother lost her leg and then her life to it, because she refused to take her insulin. My father died from complications to it because he waited way too long before trying to modify his diet and exercise. My sister has it and will probably die from complications of it because she is also schitzophrenic and refuses to eat properly.

I think MOST people who have 'extreme' side effects from diabetes are those who do not do as their doctors tell them, OR are too poor to afford medical care. For the first group, I have no sympathy whatsoever. For the second group, I have all the sympathy in the world.

[KurtNYC]

19. Just a little?

I have no sympathy whatsoever -- there must be a little sympathy at least.

Everyone has a cross to bear in this life. None of us are perfect. We rely on each others forgiveness and understanding.

[Nikia]

36. I have diabetics in my family

My mother's father has type II diabetes, is 88, and has lived with the disease for over fourty years. He does have some decreased circulation in his foot now that his arthritis has made it difficult to walk, but he has had nothing amputated nor is he blind. He was never overweight and has always been physically active. The disease runs in his family. 3 of 4 grandparents have/had it. None of them went blind or had anything amputated. They take oral medication for it. I know that I am risk for it because of my genetics whether or not I am heavy or not. My father-in-law has dibates and has already had his leg removed. My husband's grandparents all had it too and either went blind or had an amputation. Diabetes doesn't have to devestating but for some people evidently it is. Not all type II diabetics are overweight and many overweight people never develop diabetes.

[Donkeyboy75]

43. True, but that doesn't mean that those that are overweight

don't have an elevated risk. This phenomenon is extremely well documented. It's not fat-bashing.

[CO Liberal]

47. However....

...not all overweight people have diabetes. And not all diabetics are overweight.

[Donkeyboy75]

49. That's obviously true. n/t

[Ladyhawk]

20. I gained an inordinate amount of weight while bedridden with an illness.

I got diabetes and probably degenerative disc disease as a result. I'm trying my hardest to lose weight, but it's not easy. Some people have a lot harder time losing weight than do others. My aunt struggled for years, stuck to diets like glue and had no success until recently. She went on the Atkins diet and went to Curves every day and finally lost 100 pounds.

My closest friend weighs over 400 pounds. Once a person is that obese, losing weight becomes extremely difficult. It's almost impossible to exercise. He is in bad health and knows he needs to lose weight; however, it's very, very hard.

I'm not obese, but I am overweight. During the past three years I've failed in weight loss due to various body parts failing. I got plantar fasciitis in both feet for a year when I tried walking. When I switched to upper body work, two of the discs in my neck herniated. I'm still waiting on a second MRI and anticipating surgery.

All I'm saying is, once you're overweight, losing weight becomes difficult. Now I'm trying to mix up hiking, swimming, water aerobics, etc. in order to avoid injuring my body.

I have no prejudices against obese people. You can blame them for their condition, but if we start getting into the blame-game, we should start blaming people for heart conditions, hepatitis, STDs, AIDS (been done to death by fundies), etc. Almost every disease can be traced back to a preventable event.

[Bertha Venation]

21. "glad you are self-satisfied"

This is BS, Kurt, and you know it. This isn't a fair statement at all.

[KurtNYC]

31. The post seemed that way to me

She seems pretty capable of responding to that for herself if she thought it was untrue. In fact she went further and said she has no sympathy for people who don't treat their diabetes.

So while you're interested in being "fair" - don't tell me what I "know." Thanks.

[Samurai_Writer]

42. I had decided not to respond to it...

because I didn't think that it deserved a response. As for having no sympathy for people who do not treat their diabetes (or heart disease or STDs or any other illness) WHEN THEY CAN AFFORD TO AND ARE CAPABLE OF DOING SO, you are absolutely right. It is their CHOICE to not treat their illness, they have to live with the consequences. I'm not talking about people who cannot afford medical treatment or are mentally or physically incapable of following their doctor's advice. I'm talking about people who make the decision not to follow their doctor's advice. Same as I don't have any sympathy for people who don't wear seatbelts or helmets and end up vegetables. it's their right to do as they want with their bodies. Doesn't mean I have to be sympathetic because of their stupidity.

[CO Liberal]

24. As You Said In Your Post #8...

"Certainly what we need is more understanding of this issue and less venom."

[Bertha Venation]

17. an excellent answer

Well said. :hi:

[northzax]

62. right, some people are genetic freaks

in a good way, they can live a lifestyle and make choices that will kill most other people, or at least debilitate them, without repercussions. lucky you. my great grandfather smoked two packs of unfiltered chesterfields a day. died in a fall at 92, not a touch of lung cancer. It happens, but it doesn't mean that it is a wise choice for other people to make.

Somehow Keith Richards is still alive, go figure, but you going to tell your children to live his lifestyle?

some people have a genetic predisposition to be much heavier than others, some people are just lazy. Some of these people will get lucky and have the right genetic combination to live long and healthy lives. Some people can do everything right and have a genetic predisposition to die young. it happens. all we can do is maximise the probability that we are doing what we can to help our bodies out. For you, 5'10" and 275 might be a healthy weight. for most other people, it isn't. Frankly, I'm 6'5" and I would be unhealthy at 275 (unless I gained a lot of muscle)

FOR MOST PEOPLE:

There is a strong correlation between obesity and a shorter lifespan.
There is a strong correlation between obesity and increased healthcare costs.
There is a strong correlation between obesity and productivity.
There is a strong correlation between obesity and general welfare.
There is a strong correlation between obesity and decresed happiness.

There are always exceptions to ever rule, they prove the rule, in general, but FOR MOST PEOPLE, this holds true. Just because someone is obese, it doesn't follow that they neccesarily will die earlier, or have heart trouble, or diabetes, just that they are much more likely to than the same person who is not obese.

The same holds with smoking:

FOR MOST PEOPLE:
There is a strong correlation between smoking and lung cancer.
There is a strong correlation between smoking and emphysema.
There is a strong correlaiton between smoking and a shorter lifespan.
There is a strong correlation between smoking and increased healthcare costs.

This doesn't mean that everyone who smokes is going to die early, or get lung cancer or emphysema, just that smokers are much more likely to fall victim to one of these than the same person who doesn't smoke.

As for your last arguement, of course people with a genetic disposition to diabetes will be more likely to get it, it's wired into thier genes, but the fact is that obese people are much more likely to develop it if they DON'T have the genetic markers for it. More likely doesn't mean everybody, it doesn't neccesarily mean you, but it does mean that more people from one group will get it than the other group. You appear to be one of the lucky ones, I hope so, but don't use it as a model for other people who aren't so lucky.

[CO Liberal]

10. So Is Weight-Loss Surgery

I have no probelm with sensible weight loss through diet and exercise. However, I DO have a problem with bariatric surgeons hacking up someone's digestive system. I've known many people who have suffered horrible side-effects from those surgeries - and I know many who have died.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. actually more people on this planet still die of starvation than fat

isn't it time we worried about them?

[Misunderestimator]

52. EXACTLY!!! Totally rocking good point!

[HippieCowgirl]

48. No, it's being overweight AND.

Overweight AND Sedentary
Overweight AND a smoker
Overweight AND high blood pressure
Overweight AND ...etc.

Plenty of thin, sedentary, smokers with high blood pressure drop dead every day, and nobody says "Well, if she just would have lost 10 pounds she would have been fine!"

HOWEVER it is true that even just a little weight loss does help reduce things like cholesterol levels and hypertension, but that loss doesn't have to be extreme. A mere 15-20% loss of body weight can really impact some of the complications of disease.

Some of my clients have lost very little weight, but just through exercising, better nutrition, and becoming more active, they've made huge positive impacts on their health. The Cooper Aerobic Center agrees with me - it's not the weight loss that has caused their improvement - it's the fact that they aren't sitting on the couch eating cheetos anymore.

[Bertha Venation]

12. No, it's just the next worst thing after cancer.

I agree: the national "fat people suck" attitude has to change if we're ever going to stick together.

I also believe fat people in general would do well to ignore the universal stigma. Fat = ugly, fat = stupid, fat = asshole, fat = whatever you want to say as long as it is BAD. Fat people would be a lot healthier in many ways if we could learn to reject that and not try to lose weight just so we can be accepted. Try to accept yourself anyway.

Now: "Some people act like obesity is the next worst thing after terrorism." No. It's jut the next worst thing after cancer, Ms. Wann. For most morbidly obese people, the extra weight they carry is an extreme detriment to their health.

Encouraging people to lose weight because they can be more healthy and live longer is vastly different than shoving a one-method-fits-all "diet" plan down our gullets.

[cheezus]

40. okay, so it's okay to say ugly/stupid suck

but not fat?

fat=fat
stupid=stupid
ugly=ugly

the difference is that unlike ugly and stupid, fat is something that one can change

given that, shouldn't we be nicer to ugly and stupid people than fat people? it's not like they can do anything about it

[CO Liberal]

51. And Which Category are YOU In????

Ugly or stupid? :shrug:

[Misunderestimator]

53. Mmm hmm... and I suppose gay people can do something about

that too? Not ALL fat people can do something about it due to physical or psychological reasons. And frankly, I'm quite nicer to ugly people than to beautiful ones... and I'm quite more accepting of stupid people than smart or average ones who act stupid... or of stupid people (aka Dubya) who are put into positions of authority for which they are not equipped.... or (on edit) of stupid people who make blanket generalizations about millions of other people.

[Bertha Venation]

58. cheezus, you grabbed one thing out of my post

and made a big deal of it for nothing.

How about fat = republican? I sure see enough of that shit thrown around here. Especially when the photo of the blonde woman in glasses, with the American flag shirt, is ridiculed, as it has been in many threads since I joined up.

But shouldn't we be nicer to republicans than to fat people? Because republicans can't change, right? But fat people can, so fuck 'em. :eyes:

'night, all.

[Bertha Venation]

14. well, I was going to edit my comments but I waited too long.

:wtf: 4 minutes? Whatever.

I was going to add that I'm not sure I agree with this group's take on obesity being considered an illness under Medicare.

I'm in a program that costs me $454.50 every four weeks. Cash. The program doesn't bill insurance, and none of the providers in the program are in my PPO. So I come up with that much cash money every four weeks, submit my ppwk for reimbursement, and if I'm lucky I'll get about 30% back. After my annual out-of-plan deductible of $850 is met, that is. (I am infinitely grateful to have a job that offers me group insurance.)

Why do I have to spend so much? Because outside bariatric surgery, my plan does not consider obesity to be a medically-treatable condition.

The attitude I have gotten for years is "all you have to do is eat right and exercise." That is a big, steaming crock of shit, folks. Not everyone is obese because they're too lazy to diet and exercise.

I agree with the leader of the "International Size Acceptance Association" -- obesity is not a disease. But that doesn't mean that it's not legitimately medically treated.

[CO Liberal]

26. And It Should Be Treated With Diet & Exercise

NOT by having bariactric surgeons (read "butchers") hacking up perfectly healthy digestive systems. Or by prescribing diet pills like the "phen-fen" combination that caused complications so severe that many people wound up having to get heart-lung transplants. Or dying.

[Bertha Venation]

27. I agree but my point was

that "just diet and exercise" is not the solution for many of us. "Just diet and exercise" don't work when you have an eating disorder, or any number of other health problems, mental and/or physical. Obesity caused by health problems has to be treated differently. It seems this is what Medicare recognized -- at least, I hope that somewhere in that decision, this was a factor.

[CO Liberal]

29. Unfortunately....

...far too many doctors think the only solution is a prescription or weight-loss surgery.

Obesity caused by health problems would probably be better addressed by working on the health problem first.

[Bertha Venation]

30. I'm extremely lucky.

As much as I F$#%ing hate F$#%ing Washington, DC, right now, if I weren't here, I would never have heard of the program I'm in, where the doctors know better.

[CO Liberal]

32. And You're EXTREMELY Lucky....

...that no doctor talked you in to weight loss surgery/butchery.

[Bertha Venation]

33. Not a chance.

I know a few people who have done so. Fine for them, if they're happy. No one could ever talk me into it.

[CO Liberal]

34. Good for You!!!

I'm still sad that I was unable to talk a fellow DU-er out of this surgery a few years ago. The negative effects of the surgery have been HORRIBLE.

I won't mention her user name publicly - PM me if you want to know.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. The diet industry is worse than being fat, in my opinion.

Or rather, the whole Amercian concept that people need to have 0% bodyfat and perfect features is literally killing us.

Being overweight is harmful in its way, but if you think that the agnony of not being "perfect" is less deadly, you are wrong. There is a lot of money being made from making people feel insecure, whether it's about having the wrong size waist, car, bank account, etc.

~Jen, who went on her first diet at the ripe old age of 11, because darn it, 100 lbs is just blimpo!!

[yellowcanine]

25. People should focus on eating right and exercise, not weight (loss).

Focusing on weight loss is counterproductive and can actually be dangerous. People should concentrate on being physically fit by eating a balanced diet and getting lots of exercise. People can actually be "overweight" by body mass index measurement and still be quite physically fit - certainly more fit than someone who has starved themselves or gone on a low carb diet for an extended period of time and not raised their level of physical activity.

[CO Liberal]

28. I Know Several Women....

...who were started on the yo-yo diet regimen when they were very young - including some who were put on diet pills (speed) before they were ten. Some of those women have now dieted their way to well over 400 pounds.

Diets don't work - they mess up your metabolism so that your body thinks it's starving. Your body responds by slowing your metabolism so you gain weight. That's why it takes longer to lose ten poinds than to gain it back.

It's much healthier to maintain a constant weight, or to lose GRADUALLY.....

[Nikia]

37. Heavy women have it harder

Few overweight men get made fun of or discriminated against for having a little extra weight or at least to the extent that overweight women do. If a woman goes to an interview 20% overweight, she is less likely to get a job compared to her healthy or underweight counterpart. That is not just the case with men. A bigger man might even be more likely to get the job after all alpha males are big. Yes, obviously obese men get discriminated against and made fun of, but a woman only has to be a few pounds overweight to get that. If people were really concerned about health, heavy men are actually more at risk for chronic diseases than heavy women. I think that hating heavy women is actually about something else.

[Nay]

41. I agree, Nikia. If you are a heavy woman, I think men unconsciously

feel AFFRONTED by you. As if your whole focus should be on being attractive to men, and if your focus is elsewhere. . .well, there is something wrong with you.

[cheezus]

38. next worst thing after SMOKING, not terrorism

and what's wrong with the medical establishment campaigning against obesity? It's bad for you. That's their freaking job.

And while you can't change being a woman, or black, or gay ... you CAN change being obese / a smoker.

[CO Liberal]

44. Not Necessarily

Many cases of obesity are due to factors the person has no control over. For example, I know of one woman whose mother took a particular type of sedative while pregnant, which messed up her metabolism. Today, she's over 750 pounds.

[cheezus]

46. right, but most cases are because people eat too much then don't exercise

just because some people get lung cancer or emphazemia with never smoking doens't mean that smoking doesn't cause those things, nor does it mean that everyone should go ahead and smoke.

[CO Liberal]

50. Wow - How Judgemental of You

[Pithlet]

55. Can you tell the difference?

Do they look differently, depending on their cause of obesity?

[Merrick]

54. Depends on how much you smoke, dont it?

Its funny how people make these categorical judgements of activities such as smoking, drugs, etc. Being a 'smoker' can be more or less unhealthy than being obese depending on how much you smoke, so a qualification is needed. And unlike people who are grossly overweight, you cant tell by looking at a person with a cigarette how much he/she smokes in order to estimate how reckless they're being with thmesleves (if you're the type who enjoys judging such things). I happen to smoke here and there (about 2 packs a week) but I also do 30-60 minutes of cardio exercise (gym or soccer) 6 days a week, am in good shape, and frankly get a little annoyed when people - especially pudgy ones who sit in cubicles and eat McDonalds for lunch - say things like, 'Oh, I didn't know you SMOKED' when they catch me at it.

BTW, this diatribe wasnt directed at you Cheezus

[northzax]

63. and it matters how overweight you are, as well, no?

most people who are ten to twenty pounds 'obese' look perfectly normal. just like you do. your chances are higher than a non-smoker, but not as high as a pakc a day person.

[DaveFL99]

60. This is the kinda stuff that used to make me a Republican

[CO Liberal]

61. Glad You Saw The Light

:-)

[daligirrl]

64. Some info from the CDC . . .

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/defining.htm

Someone who is "overweight" but has high muscle mass can be far healthier than their thin counterpart. My "normal" weight is about 30 lbs higher than the insurance charts indicate. Why? Because I have dense bones and high muscle mass. I'm another 30 lbs above that right now, as well, but I'm in great shape because I work out 4-5 times a week. I know some other larger ladies who are in fantastic shape.

Years ago I worked as a tech in a cardiac catheterization lab. We had thin people come in all the time with cholesterol so high that it was visible to the naked eye when centrifuged. But no one would look at them and say that they were unhealthy.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Great point

[daligirrl]

67. Another thought . . .

My understanding is that the type of fat that you have can be a factor in how unhealthy your fat is for you. If you have a high percentage of adipose (fatty) tissue you may be more likely to experience ill effects than someone with more muscle.