On outsourcing: Am I being a racist or what?

[Blue-Jay]

I get annoyed every time I get on the phone with a call center in India. Nothing against the people I'm talking to, mind you, but I figure that someone HERE got fired because of it, and it annoys me. Nothing like blood-boiling rage or anything - I just get peeved about it.

Today at work, however, I was talking to a CSR for a very large insurance company. This company recently moved their call center from Dallas to Ireland. So, Irish Paul and I conducted our business, and then had a very pleasant conversation that was non-work-related. After I hung up it dawned on me. Why did talking to an Irish fellow not bother me for the same reasons that talking to an Indian fellow does?

Granted, I have some strong ties to the UK (Scotland in particular), but I still feel weird about this. No, I don't blame the people who are getting jobs out of the country. Not in the slightest. I know that these are people just like me, who are working for a living and I'd never begrudge them that. Still, I feel differently about talking to these people based on nothing other than what country they're from.

This is bugging me. Am I being a racist? I don't feel like a racist, and rasicm here at home is the ONE short fuse issue that sets me off in an instant. What the hell?

Any comments?

[Misunderestimator]

1. Oh my... that's a loaded question

I would question the same myself if I reacted that way to it. HOWEVER... it could simply be that English is Ireland's native language, so the communication is not as strained, and therefore does not irritate you as much. It's good you question it though.

[Don_G]

2. Similar Culture And Language

It's easy to understand someone from the UK. Not so with anyone from India who has learned English as a second language, out of some textbook and by rules set forth by a greedy corporation here in the US.

[physioex]

3. I am of Indian origin, but I grew up here in the USA since childhood...

As far as I am concerned, americans have the right to be frustrated about outsourcing. I myself am an engineer in communications and have seen my jobs outsourced to India. But let's not sit around blame the poor Indian worker, after all they are just trying to make a living just like us. The solution begins when we start to look from the national to corporate policy. There are no easy answers, and I have none to offer except that I am going to choose a career that cannot be outsourced.

[Blue-Jay]

5. No no no. Re-read my post.

I made it clear that I'm not annoyed at the Indian worker. I'm annoyed that someone HERE lost their job due to corporate greed.

I was only questioning why I didn't get that same feeling with talking to Irish Paul today.

[physioex]

11. I know youre not blaming the worker..

But some people do just that. I am just glad I can go back retrain and go to another career.

[BiggJawn]

4. Easier to talk to the Irishman..

I had a call center call from India last month, and the young woman had a very pleasant voice. I couldn't get enough of it. Unfortunately, her command of English was not all that great outside of her business script...

That could be it.

[Blue-Jay]

9. Still, though. The Irish guy wasn't nearly as competent as

the folks I used to deal with in Dallas. Granted, the move to Ireland only took place a few months ago, so he's still "new" to his job.

Another caveat: Before the move to Ireland, I was talking to a CSR friend of mine in Dallas about what was going to happen. Apparently, they were all promised that nobody would be fired. Only reassigned to other areas. Whether they'll keep that promise is yet to be seen. I somehow doubt it.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

6. Having trained my Indian replacement and still working alongside..

.. them (not simply him...) and watching as my entire office takes on an Indian feel..

I can attest how difficult it is to let race not enter into the equation, but bottom line, these are vey nice guys and women, some are easy & nice to work worth, others are just plain annoying. However, I could have said the same thing about my office overall before they came into the picture!

I personally try to NOT take it out on them.. after all, they are only doing what it takes to get a good job (from their perspective). I put the blame not on them, but on the CEOs and the others making the decisions to move the company in that direction.

It's not entirely different than 10 or 15 years ago when 'Contracting' out the work to non-employees was in vogue. We 'hated' the contractors because they weren't trained in our applications, we had to watch over their shoulders, provide support, and watch them get paid twice as much.

At least now, doing the same thing... at least they're not being paid double!!! <smile>

[Canuckistanian]

7. I suppose it's human nature

We just relate better to someone from our own culture. And India's is a very different culture.

I think a lot of people have the "tribal" instinct that makes them relate to others who look and talk just like them. It's an instinct that should be overcome, of course, otherwise you end up like the xenophobic Freeps.

I'm more concerned about it for another reason. Paul in Ireland was probably not making much money, but a hell of a lot more than Mr. Patel in India. It's a race to the economic bottom for these corporations.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. yes you are.

[Blue-Jay]

12. Care to explain your sentiment?

Or would you rather judge based on how little you know about me? I'm trying to work through some uncomfortable feelings here, and am being completely honest. Your hit and run post adds nothing to the discourse.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. well you asked a simple enough question

you dont like talking to indians CS reps abroad yet you are ok with Europeand CS reps. If this mere oursourcing issue, i would say that you are possibly not racist. but this is beyond just the outsourcing.

[Blue-Jay]

16. Did you READ the entire post?

Did I not make it clear that I hold nothing against the person to whom I'm talking? Nothing.

If I had to venture a guess, I'm just so used to talking to people with UK accents (aka MY FAMILY), that the outsourcing thing doesn't occur to me until later. I didn't even consider it until I was already off the phone with the gentleman today.

<sigh> Never mind.

EDIT: ALSO, I never said that I don't like talking to Indian CSRs. I do it all the time due to my job, and have several at several companies that I look forward to dealing with. One guy in particular is a joy to deal with, and we always have a grand old time kidding around with each other. Don't put words in my mouth, OK?

My point was that the "outsourcing issue" hits me faster when I hear an accent on the other line that's not Irish. Gawd, it's nothing against the person on the other side of the phone.

whatever.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. you know what

dont ask questions if you dont want to hear an answer that you dont like

[Blue-Jay]

19. whatever.

I don't know why I'm debating you. I promise that my next thread will be a stupid cry for attention, so as not to ask anyone to employ actual reasoning.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. some of us have the intelligence

to do most of our own reasoning.

[MAlibdem]

10. While I don't like people in the US are being laid off...

India is doing great and I'm happy for them...

They've had such a slow growing economy since independence, and it's nice to see a globalization success story (at least on the other end it is)...

[TrogL]

13. Join the club

I do tech support for some software. Lately I've been getting a lot of email originating from Indian ISP's. They will not RTFM or the FAQ or the INSTALL documentation or even adequately describe their problem.

[Sapphocrat]

15. Greetings from...

...one who no longer has a fall-back career, thanks to the mass exportation of tech-support jobs to India. :hi:

Is it racist to feel less upset talking to a call center in Ireland than to one in India? Good question. I don't think it would matter to me -- the bottom line is that whoever I'm talking to -- white, brown, Asian, whatever -- still represents one less job that I need, badly.

Perhaps what bugs you more about India (as it does me) are the deliberate (and lame) attempts to fool us stupid Yanks into thinking the person on the other end of the line is actually "Susie" with a "Texas" twang. (Give me a freaking break, "Susie," and stop trying to con me. It's bad enough you have my job; don't add insult to injury.)

I take it Irish Paul didn't try to fool you into believing you'd reached the Dallas office.

Beyond that, I expect I'd probably have an easier time chatting casually with Irish Paul than Indian "Susie," simply because of the way business is conducted in different countries. When I was actually working (!), I used to talk to other employees all over the globe. With Italians, the conversation was always very polite, very formal, with little chit-chat. The Swedes were always in a hurry to get right down to business and finish the call. The Canadians would always apologize for having a problem I needed to fix. The English would take the cue from me as to whether this was going to be a business-only discussion, or a friendly "How are things in Jolly Olde England?" chat. The Australians would spend two minutes on business, and another twenty on weather, bush fires, and food.

Broad generalizations? Sure, but that was my experience. As a result, I felt on edge calling Milan, rushed talking to Stockholm, relaxed with Toronto, amused by London, and always happy for any excuse to call Sydney.

India? Always feels stilted and scripted to me -- I think they're just incredibly paranoid about doing everything "right."

In the end, if I had to lose my job to another country, I'd rather it go to Canada, Australia, or the U.K.; if I have to talk to somebody outside the U.S., I want somebody who speaks my language -- and I don't mean English.

[Blue-Jay]

17. I guess it's like everything else....

You can be a non-racist, and still feel more comfortable when you're with "your own". I'm glad that there are more jobs in India. Lord knows they've needed the boost for a long time.

And no, Irish Paul didn't try to disguise his accent, although he was making a serious effort to speak slowly and clearly. I suspect that his normal speaking style is quite different when he's "down the pub".