If you were dating what you thought was a girl, and later found out...

[ringmastery]

she was a post-operative transsexual (i.e. everything looks like a girl). And she hid this from you, what would you do?

[DIKB]

1. Hard to say.

Depends on how much I cared, and how betrayed I felt. Also factor in how long they hid this from you.

[bahrbearian]

2. Take a long Shower.

[politicat]

3. Shrug and deal.

Her mind is female, after all.

That's what you're supposed to be in love with, the mind, not the body.

I dated a post-op F2M transgendered man when I was in school. We broke up because I transferred and neither of us could sustain a long distance relationship.

It's no big deal if you can wrap your mind around the idea that the brain is the important thing - not the genitals.

Life goes on.

Pcat

[foreigncorrespondent]

71. Very well said!

I stand up and applaud you for being so wise.

I am not transgendered, but as a lesbian I face discrimination on a daily basis. I feel so much sorrow for my transgendered brothers and sisters. Especially the ones who are likley to stumble across this thread, which lacks sincerity. Your post though is a cut above most. Thank YOU!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. how did you find out?

i would assume its a hard thing for her to admit...and she probably wanted to tell you a million times but chickened out...why wouldn't she?

[NC_Nurse]

5. Definitely depends

on how much I cared for her. It would certainly need to be adjusted to, talked about, and see how it settles...and that's for someone who really matters...

[Wickerman]

6. It would be something we'd have to sort through

if I cared a lot about her. I guess she would see herself as always having been a girl - just wrongly equipped. She's probably been hurt before by someone she trusted too early. Can never answer for someone else's situation, too many unknowns, but you have a right to feel hurt - don't know if its worth ending a relationship over.

[moof]

7. beauty is more than skin deep and gender is brain based.

If a person came into the world in the wrong package for the contents in their brain and went to the effort to make the body physically match then who would anyone else be to doubt, question or find fault.

[foreigncorrespondent]

74. Moof...

...I stand up and applaud you as well, for such wise words. Thank YOU!

[Endangered Specie]

8. Honestly, Id probably leave her...

I know this sounds bigoted, but its me, I won't lie about it.

edit: maybe if I was in love with her, I could see beyond the physical aspects (I know this is a weakness in my character), but I cant make any guarantees.

[foreigncorrespondent]

77. I wouldn't say bigoted...

...after all you wouldn't call her a "fag" would you?

But I will say it is a true weakness on your part, and for that, I am so very sorry for you. People are so much more complex than the outside package. As they old saying goes; "Never judge a book by its cover." Your own inhibitions could cause you to lose the best thing to ever happen to you, in your life.

[Kali]

9. you say

"HID" this from you. Was it really hiding as in dishonesty or just not told you yet. Was there actual lying? How did you "find out"? I ould think it would depend an a whole lot of circumstances.

Me personally (of course I am female but say the other way around) why would it matter unless there was some sort of real deception or other dishonesty.

Love is love you might want to accept it when it comes along, for some it never does.

[KareBear]

10. Having been fairly active in the GBLT community

What I'd like to ask is what if you were dating a girl, and found out later she had had a nose job. Her previous nose was hideous, but she hadn't told you about the nose job. Would you be offended and freak out?

What about if a woman had a disfiguring birthmark on half of her face and had surgery to correct it? Would that be a breaking up offense if she didn't disclose she was previously disfigured up front?

Or maybe a woman had had gastric bypass and lost 400 pounds, and she wasn't the model like goddess you always thought she was... would you dump her?

You can see my point here. You would never expect a woman to come up to you on your first date and say, "I'm sorry, but I've had my nose changed/lost weight/had a birth mark removed". The idea of this kind of disclosure seems silly. In fact, society would congratulate the woman on her steps to improve herself physically through these measures.

Why then would anyone hold a woman who had another form of birth defect surgically corrected in some form of contempt? Its a politcally incorrect birth defect?

If your happy with who you are dating now, why nitpick about her past? I've seen so many people have their hearts broken when they disclosed to partners. I've seen them battered and abused by the same person that is supposed to care about them.

Try to see it from that point of view before the fairly conservative reaction of "She's a witch BURN HER!" breaks out inside you.

Just my 2 cents :D

[Colin Ex]

11. Right here, kids.

Words of wisdom.

-C

[bhunt70]

12. good post and I agree, I think it would be the lie, if there was one...

that would be the problem to overcome.

[CanuckAmok]

13. I recently saw a documentary...

about gender change surgery, and a few cases. It's almost flawless now.

One of the people interviewed was, now try to keep this straight...

A biological-born woman who was born lesbian, and who had a f to m sex change in order to marry her girlfriend. During the course of the procedure (several years), she (now 'he') and the girlfriend broke up, and by the time the procedure was complete, the subject had become attracted to men, and now identified himself as a gay male. By the time he was interviewed, he was in a long-term relationship with another gay male, who was formerly straight.

How confusing is that?!

And it wasn't even "Springer".

[SiliconMethod]

14. He'd be gone.

Yeah go ahead and say beauty is more than skin deep or whatever, but for someone to do that, they are for one being extremely dishonest. If they entrap me in that manner who knows what they'd be hiding under their hat in addition to that. Even if I could handle that kind of thing (and I honestly can't), that is more than enough for me to dump what I thought was a woman. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, but that almost tops my list of humiliations.

[foreigncorrespondent]

79. But...

...what if you pursued the person, because the very moment you saw her you knew she was the one person created for you? What if you begin to date, and say you fall head over heals in love with this person. One night you decide you are want to get more intimate with her, but before you do, she tells you. What are you going to do then?

You are in love with person. You want to spend the rest of your life with this person. This person did not entrap you at all. What are you going to do?

How big are you going to feel if you turn around throw her out, and you wound her heart so much she then goes and takes her own life, because of the humilation she suffered at your hands?

Transgenderd people don't go around in real life with the idea of entrapping people. Nothing is what you see on tv.

[SiliconMethod]

87. Lemme pick out the flaws in what you're saying....

1) Although presently my school situation makes me hesitant, I want to have kids by the time I'm, say, 30 (I'm 21 now). A male-turned-female can't bear children as Angelus already pointed out in an earlier post.

2) No transgendered person can hide that for long, because there is no operation that can completely hide the original sex.

3) I don't feel big finding out the person I fell in love with simply wasn't the person I thought she--oh wait he was. When that guy knows damn well that I wouldn't want him if I knew he was a man, yet hides that for that long, that, in my opinion, is a form of rape. My body, my time, and my emotions would be taken and toyed with. What I have fallen in love with was really an illusion!

And you're saying that this actor is the one being humiliated and abused when I tell him to get out of my life?

Sorry, but when you hide that kind of info from a guy you know would mind, it is beyond entrapment.

[foreigncorrespondent]

92. Now let me point out the flaws on what you are saying

Guess what? I am 100% woman. Was born a girl, and still am a woman after 36 years of life. Only thing is, I can't have kids due to an illness I have.

See the flaws with your kind of thinking? Not all women can have children, but, there is always adoption.

BTW! I never mentioned about a trangendered person hiding their op for a long time.

I am so surprised by the answers I am seeing here.

[LynzM]

15. Hid or just didn't tell yet?

I'd say it'd be a matter of whether it was lied about, or they were just uncomfortable telling me. If it was lying, then, yeah, that'd be an issue (the lying, not the actual procedure). If the second, or if the lying was because of how they thought I'd react to it, then I'd really have to do some self-evaluation, as I consider myself a pretty open and non-critical person on most things, and someone that people usually open up to. So... I think it wouldn't be a problem, but I'd want to understand the 'why'.

[Delano]

16. I would dump her.

Totally immoral and unethical to hide something like that. I lot of men are seeking a mate for having children. TS's can't have kids. Of course, if you just mean it was a couple dates, that would be forgivable, but If you had been an intimate couple thinking of commitment - that's too far. The TS should spill the beans before any sexual contact, preferably on the first date.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

18. Echo, echo, echo, echo . . .

. . . . And then a punch in the nose. But I think I would have figured it out before that point. Its called an "Adam's Apple."

BTW, Ann Coulter has one.

[foreigncorrespondent]

80. So...

...what would you do if you found your "mate" made a life commitment to her, only to find out she cannot have babies? That she doesn't ovulate. But was born a woman. Are you going to dump her as well?

[BlondieK143]

17. He'd be out.

If he felt he had to lie to me to begin with, he obviously felt like he couldn't trust the way I would handle the situation. If there's no trust, there's no relationship.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

19. You'd think it would be one of the first things communicated

"BTW, I'm a transsexual." Dishonesty is always bad. See the Bush Administration.

[BlondieK143]

20. Amen! n/t

[tishaLA]

38. Maybe YOU'd think that

but with all the bigotry against TGs on this thread, you can assuredly see why people don't necessarily disclose it. Sometimes, you can date someone and it only becomes an issue when things get serious.

Does everyone you date have to knock down all the preconceptions you have about him or her early in the relationship? Or is just a special thing you have about knowing one's birth sex? Sheesh.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

57. Who wouldn't think that?

?

[Angelus]

21. Dump "her" in a heartbeat.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Who cares?

If I've been dating the person, obviously I think the person is worth my time and attention, and if she ends up having previously been a he, who cares?

Jesus, people, get over yourselves and your "in the box" thinking.

So you go out with someone for a while because you find their souls to be deeply integrated into yours, but then, because of some superficial bullshit, you send your soulmate packing? I'd expect that of freepers, not of human beings like DUers.

[BlondieK143]

23. Wait

We're just being honest. It would be a very, very difficult thing to get over. And what about wanting to have children? I would like to adopt but I also want a few kids of my own too. Those things are important to a lot of people and you can't just keep something so big from someone. How are they supposed to be your "soulmate" when they can't even be honest with you?

[Angelus]

25. Amen to that!

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. If your interest is solely children, then a relationship is not a priority

so if you want to dump someone whom you otherwise found intriguiing enough to keep dating, then I guess, go ahead and dump. Obviously love is irrelevant, and having children is the important thing. I dno't particularly agree with that, but I can understand the need some people might feel that reproducing is more important than finding a soul-mate.

But my question is why is it so important to tell you that they are a former he? If they have always self-identified as a female, and finally found a way to have that self-identification fulfilled, who gives a flying godddamn? Unless you demand utter and full discolsure of a person's entire life, fantasies, and past doings, to place more importance on disclosing birth defects than on, say, felonious conduct is utter bulshit.

As another poster offered, if they had a huge birthmark on their face and had it removed, and never told you, would you care?

If you don't care, then you shouldn't care if they were born with a "sexual organ" defect and had it corrected.

Unless, as you say, the only reason you are entering a relationship is to have children. Then, of course, you need to find a female who was born with female sexual organs.

personally speaking, I'd hope that no one would be so callously shallow, but obviously for some people, the "right" of reproduction is the ultimate in signifiers of a "proper" relationship.

Sad.

[Angelus]

27. Tell me this...

would you ever date a transgendered person?

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. Yeah, why not? Who cares?

I gues I'm just more interested in the relationship with the person at hand, as opposed to some future possibility of that relatinship providing children.

But that's just me - I believe children should come from healthy, loving relationships, which is to say that the healthy, loving relationship is the primary thing, and children are the possible secondary result of that relationship.

To me, IMO, to go into a relatiosnhip - or to search for a relationship - solely for reproductive potential is to utterly demean and dehumanize the person with whom one is getting into a relationship with.

maybe it's just me, but I want a relationship ONLY AND UTTERLY ONLY with someone I can relate to, that I love, that I totally connect with on an emaotional, spiritual, and physical level. If kids come from that relationship, then fine. But to enter a relationship based only on having kids, with no sense of caring for the one who will join in caring for those kids? That's abominable.

But, as I said before, if one truly feels called to have children as part of one's life's calling, then obviuosly one must be in a hetero relationship with a man with the ability to propduce viable sperm and a woman able to produce viable egss and to be able to gestate those eggs into viable children.

[BlondieK143]

33. Please re-read my post.

I never said I was looking soley for having children. I'm 18 year's old for God's sake. You say you're disappointed at us for being so close-minded but yet we're not allowed to have our own opinions anymore?

[Angelus]

34. Once again...

Amen to that!

[BlondieK143]

28. I didn't say it was based soley on having children.

And I never said love isn't important. But when you enter into a relationship together, you have to find common bonds and common interests. And, as things progress, you begin to talk about what you want for the future. I just don't see how you could even GET to that level with a person if they don't want some of the same things as you. (and obviously if that person were formally a she, it wouldn't be possible).

It's really not about being shallow. I'm not shallow at all, I'm a really open-minded person. But I also know that I'm honest. And in my opinion, I would feel betrayed to being lied to about something so big. And yes, this IS a big deal. This isn't being a birthmark on someone's face. How can the comparison even be made? A birthmark and a lie about a genital are two different things. I respect your opinion and your ability to be that awesome, but I couldn't do it. So you're saying this is just forgivable no matter what?? That you wouldn't, in the least bit, feel betrayed? So if you're cheated on by your significant other, you'd forgive them, no questions asked?

[Rabrrrrrr]

68. Well, the original genitalia aren't there any nmore

So in that sense, the issue IS the same is not telling about a birthmark that had been removed, or a cleft foot that had surgery to repair.

You make one valid point - for someone who feels that reproduction is important, more than likely, that would have appeared early in the relationship so that for the person who goes into a relationship with the idea that reproduction will come out of it will likely have early on asked the person they are dating, "So, are you fertile? Because I'm into having children."

So the situation posed in this thread likely wouldn't occur.

And if you are dedicated to reproduction, then yeah, of course you're going to dump anyone who can't reproduce, whether it's because of a sex change, disease, birth defect, damage due to being raped by their babysitter, religious reasons, genetic sterility, having their tubes tied, being sterile because of a faulty abortion, or whatever. If reproduction is your deal, then I can't fauly you at all for dumping anyone who is unable/incapable/uninterested in having children.

But to say that a person should, in the first second of a date, start disclosing all "pertinent" details is insane. Who knows what is pertinent? Obviously, for you it's pertinent that a female who used to be male tell you IMMEDIATELY, as soon you stanmd next to them, "I used to be a guy", because that's what you want to hear. As far as I'm concerened, it's irrelevant. I don't care what they USED to be, I care about WHO THEY CURRENTLY ARE and WHO THEY WILL BE. But for me, it's NOt pertinent to tell me their history of gender. Just as I don't expect them to tell me in the first four seconds everyone they've had sex with, every sexual fantasy they've ever had, whether they've been married before, whether they prefer oat bread instead of wheat bread, whether they actually thought Top Gun was an artistic achievement, etc.

You see, we in the US of A have a very toddler-like association with sexuality, because we are not a sexually healthy nation. We look at serx as bad, while looking at it as good, while looking at it as taboo, and have a very horrible and destructive lasting puritan sensibility (though that is a terrible word to use) about sex.

Again I say, based on the initial question of "If you have been dating someone, and they tell you they are sex-changed, would you continie to date them?" Based on JUST that question, I still say that anyone who is willing to dump someone, after a period of dating - and I assume taht you are dating that person because you found an incredible connection with that person - to just dump them based on them having been born with the wrong "equipment" is, to me, really crazy.

[Angelus]

24. That's because...

I prefer females over males. No, I don't mean males that turned into females. I mean I want women that were born women.

If I was lied to and misled about his/her (whatever it is)'s gender, then out the door he/she goes.

It has everything to do with being lied to and misled. Not to mention it's just gross.

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. So you're interested in a naturally produced cunt

as opposed to a doctor's corrective surgery to provide a "cunt" for someone who is inherently female but had a birth defect and was born with a penis; or at least a preference for a naturally produced womb.

I guess the operative determination for you, in terms of relationship, is not personality or charisma or how you connect on an emotional/spiritual plane, but whether the human being in front of you was born with a natural cunt, and has nothing to do with this intriguing and wondrous person's natural humanity.

I don't understand the issue here - whether the person was born with a penis or a vagina, who gives a goddamn if the person has always felt like a woman and finally - thank God the person has viable economic means - had the birth defect corrected?

I am sorely disappointed at the bigotry being spewed by DUers tonight. Though I don't condemn anyone for it. It is the way it is. I just wish that people were a little more understanding and tolerant. Perhaps in another generation, as more people have this corrective surgery, people will have more knowledge and not fear sex-changed people so much.

[Angelus]

32. How in the hell is this bigotry???

I want a female. I want a natural-born female. I don't want to date a male that decided all of a sudden that he wanted to be a girl. That's not the type of game I want to play.

There's a big difference between being tolerant of someone and being honest and attracted to someone. Just because I wouldn't find that "female" attractive anymore after I found out it was a male doesn't mean I still won't tolerate it.

I ask you this: would you ever date a transgendered person? Don't look at it in the emotional sense. View it in the physical sense.

[tishaLA]

36. Lack of knowledge

TG women don't decide "all of a sudden" to become women (I don't know any who are girls, for the record, because they all qualify as women to me). It is a long process that involves years fo hormone therapy, psychological evaluations, and ancillary surgeries before the final SRS (sexual reassignment surgery) takes place.

Again, if you like GGs, that's fine, but there is no reason to put "female" in quotation marks.

Edit: Clarification

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Angelus]

42. All of a sudden, my opinion is "freeperish"...

just because I think it's totally disgusting to date a transgendered person? You know, just because I'm a Democrat doesn't mean I have to date a TG person or feel attracted to them.

Yes, I would dump the person in a heartbeat if I found out it was a man at one point. Who cares? Many others on this website would do the same thing.

It's pretty sad to think that a differing opinion on this website is "freeperish." Too bad I couldn't be more perfect in my thinking like you are. :eyes:

[nonconformist]

56. You're also assuming that all post-operative transsexuals

were born with both or the wrong sex organs while being biologically opposite otherwise. This isn't always the case. Some people do CHOOSE to change their sex, and that's totally okay and up to them. But you're only chalking this up to bigotry against people with birth defects, when this isn't always the case.

I'd also like to point out that most people are either straight or gay. No in-between about it. If a straight male likes women but is sexually turned-off by men, and finds out a woman he was dating actually has a penis this would be a major turn-off for him that he probably couldn't overcome unless he was already deeply in love. Same thing with a gay male thinking he's dating a man but it turns out he has a vagina. And one would think that if you are in a committed, loving relationship that hiding things like what sex of genitalia you have isn't very conductive to a lasting relationship anyway.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[tishaLA]

44. So a "female" (i.e., woman) necessarily

ovulates? Menstruates? What?

I appreciate that you have different ideas about this than I do, but please refrain from calling TG women "it." It's unnecessary.

[Angelus]

45. Yes.

A female menstruates and ovulates.

And please stop trying to act like my mom. I can handle what I say.

[tishaLA]

46. Well, I will let all the women who neither

ovulate nor menstruate know that they are no longer considered "female." There are millions of them, ya know!

[Angelus]

47. Sheesh...

I forgot to mention that a true female has gone/is going through menopause and/or goes through it in her life.

Cut me some slack.

[tishaLA]

48. Some women NEVER ovulate

and some don't menstruate. Has nothing to do with menopause, although that certainly alters things a bit for most women.

[Rabrrrrrr]

51. So unless YOU define a woman as woman, "it" isn't a woman

Wow, what power you hold!!

As for me, I prefer to let a person define him/herself.

Some woman don't menstruate.

Some women don't have children.

Some women can't have children.

Some men can't ejaculate and/or even have an erection

Some men ejaculate, but their sprem is null and void

Some men are bron with vaginas.

Some women are born with penises.

In fact, according to a number of reports I've read, about 1 in 1000 children are born with both sex equipment and it's up to the parents to decide which gender to choose for the baby. I don't know if 1 in 1000 is accurate, I have a feeling it's much less than that (maybe 1 in 100,000), but the fact remains that there are a number of people out there whose parents sadly chose the wrong gender for their child in the surgery room. Not the mention those who have birth defects that no one knew of until the person grew up.

That's why I consider this "freeperish" thinking, because it's so narrow and close-minded that it won't accept the facts and the truth that some people are genuinely and simply born with equipment that doesn't match their emotional/spiritual/psychological makeup.

So what the hell is your problem? Why do you insist on defining who people are, and insist on defining so narrowly?

[Name removed]

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[Rabrrrrrr]

53. It's because you insist on defining who people are,

instead of letting them define themselves. YOU are the one who wants to take power away from others, and claim it for yourself.

That's what freepers do.

If you don't want to date sex-changed people, that's fine. But as I said before, the question on this thread offers the situation that a person has been dating someone already and then finds out they are sex-changed.

Now, if you ARE turned off that point, that's who you are - that's fine - but I suggest that there is a better alternative and way to think about the situation.

But what I'm really getting bothered about now is that you, and others, are saying that those who have had sex-changes aren't even human - they are "it".

Freeperish thinking involves narrow definitions; liberal thinking involves expanding definitions.

[Angelus]

54. Too bad I can't be a perfect, understanding...

liberal like you. I like how you have to define liberals like that. Obviously, you have forgotten that there is such a thing as liberals who lean a little towards the right (like me). No, I'm not a Republican. I'm a Democrat who is liberal in mose ideas and conservative on some, like Bill Clinton or John Edwards.

Who says I want to take power from others? I'm just saying I would dump the person at the drop of a hat. I never said I didn't respect them or deny them any rights. I'm glad you said it's ok that I can dump the person. For a second there I thought I had to ask for your blessing. :eyes:

And yes, I have every right to define people who I think they are. I'm a human being. We all do that. Whoever says differently is a liar.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

61. The issue is telling someone

Not your idea of what others should and should not accept. No decent transsexual would start dating and forming a relationship with another without telling them. That's a bunch of shit, cruel and deceitful.

[Angelus]

65. You're 100% correct.

I agree completely.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

59. You're Correct

Of course.

[SiliconMethod]

73. OMFG

Hey Rab, if it fits someone else then fine, but some of us simply demand the real deal here. Having sex with a woman who was born a guy for me would be like a Hindu who ate what he thought was a veggie burrito to find out that it had cow in it. Like that Hindu who ate the sacred, forbidden cow, I'd be mortally offended by such a thing. Does it make us bigoted if we don't want to do that?

With your reasoning, do you criticize the Christians who prefer not to marry the Muslims?

[Angelus]

76. That's what I have been wanting to say all along...

I prefer "the real deal" over surgically-altered individuals.

[tishaLA]

35. So you prefer GG

(genetic girls). Big deal. Do you have to insult transgendered women to make that point? A TG woman is not an "it" or a "him" and I find the TG phobia really grotesque.

[Angelus]

37. You have your opinions, I have mine.

Please respect them.

[tishaLA]

40. Try to respect TG women then

[7th_Sephiroth]

30. i have dated both post-op and pre-op

really interesting experiences

[Eye and Monkey]

49. It wouldn't matter, it's just another thing to try to understand -

To try to understand about a person you are getting close to -

[Duncan Grant]

64. I'm with you, Eye and Monkey.

I think you've summed this up perfectly. :hi:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Rabrrrrrr]

58. I agree, I also am offended by this usage of "it"

It pissed me off, and I didn't want to say anything in my pissed off state.

Apparentlyl on DU we have people who are willing to dehumanize. That seriously bothers me.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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[Rabrrrrrr]

63. Well, don't pound on Ringmastery - it's a fair question

I don't discount the validity of asking it.

I'm simply bothered by some of the answers we've seen here.

Egads! :shudder:

[Duncan Grant]

66. Fair enough, but I'll stand by my criticism of ringmastery.

My feeling is, if you're going to launch a thread...you're culpable and should respond to the posts it generates. Otherwise, it's just a derelict flame-bait.

clarify: culpability

[Rabrrrrrr]

70. You can criticize, yes,

but I don't want to see us ever get to the point where asking the question is considered "evil" or "immoral".

I never want ti disparage someone for asking a question, because without the questions we never learn, and we become no different than Hitler's Germany, or Shrub's America, , or any host of dictatorial regimes, whether national, state=sponmsored, or local. Even my seminary, the world's most liberal seminary, was so liberal that some quetions weren't allowed, such as "But what if we really think of God as 'Father' instead of as 'Mother'" because my seminary set it in stone that God could NVER be referred to as 'Father', but there no proscription against using 'Mother'. And I don't like God as 'Father' imagery, but that lack of liberal thinking bothered me.

That's what I meant when I mentioned 'it was a valid question', which doesn't mean I agree or disagree with the answer. Just like that I like the idea that the question is allowed to be asked, whatever the political ideology of the questioner.

[Duncan Grant]

75. Yes, asking questions is important and encouraged!

As the old saying goes, "there are no stupid questions."

And, if I post a question here at DU I have a responsibility to clarify when needed or broaden the inquiry. To post a thread like this and then walk away (not one response from ringmastery at this time)...is irresponsible, imho.

[Name removed]

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[nonconformist]

67. An honest question

Since my post above hasn't been addressed.

Do you think it's wrong when people spout off about how homosexuals can change their sexual orientation if they wanted to? Well I do. I don't see this as any different. You're attracted to who you're attracted to.

[Duncan Grant]

69. I agree with you nonconformist.

<You're attracted to who you're attracted to.> Seems pretty simple (and acceptable) to me.

I do have problems with the original question from ringmastery. It assumes that the transsexual has done something wrong...the original question is too loosely framed and appeals to bias and ignorance. I avoided this thread until I saw the word "it" - that's when I had to say something.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

78. I would certainly have more respect...

for ringmastery if they would stick around and address the issues their thread has generated. If that's not the point, then why bother posting at a public forum? Might as well write a question on a piece of paper and throw it to the wind...

I need to go cool off...sorry for the rant. :hi:

[foreigncorrespondent]

82. Beaker...

...your "sincerity" truly astounds me.

"It" Do you call your mother, "it"?

When are you going to realize that when you slam someone for being gay, lesbian, cross dresser, transgendered, bisexual, etc, you are actually wounding a persons feelings?

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

62. I wouldn't be pleased, for sure.

That's extremely deceptive, and it's wrong.

[foreigncorrespondent]

83. Ok...

...if I was dating someone and we were becoming more serious in our relationship, and she came out and told me she was born with male genitalia, I wouldn't flinch an eye.

I would love her no matter what. Just because she was born with a penis, and had it removed doesn't make her any less of a woman than myself.

The same has to be said if I was dating a woman who told me she wanted to have a FTM operation. I would support her in that, because to me, I fell in love with her as a person. If she isn't happy because in her mind she is a male, then who am I to stop her from going through with it? She will still be the same person I fell in love with, only her equiptment will be a little different.

[cleofus1]

84. not a problem...

it is only with the heart that one can see rightly...what is essential is invisible to the eye..(or something like that)

[ForrestGump]

85. Here we go again: this is stupid...

Yet another example of solicited opinions being characterized as some Freeperish, neoconservative, fascist, bigoted, etc, etc, etc viewpoint at odds with an 'authorized' progressive social-political outlook. We come in all flavors, and if some of us hold opinions or feelings on certain subjects that are at odds with the majority (or, too often, with a particularly vocal minority) of our peers that's just how it is when you're talking about real diversity. Certainly, at least with a topic like this one, the validity of an opinion or personal preference cannot become the object of an I'm-more-liberal-than-you game of PC-oneupmanship. It shouldn't have to be defended, either. Discussed, sure, but not defended.

Someone who would not be attracted to or want to continue a relationship with a transgendered person is not exhibiting political reactionism or right-wing tendencies...certainly not any more than are those who (as often happens inthe Lounge) express strong preference for women who are voluptuous or for women who are more slender than average. And what of us who identify ourselves as heterosexual? And those of us who identify ourselves as homsexual? Should we be ashamed of ourselves for not overlooking secondary sexual characteristics in our quest for love?

My answer to this question would probably be that I wouldn't be interested in a woman who used to be a man, at least as a romantic partner. But I do know that the world is painted in shades of gray (colors, even) and is not as black-and-white as DU's various morality squads seem to hold, so if I ever actually found myself in that situation I may very well sing a different tune. I can't really know, either way, at this time.

But I do know that there's a world of difference bewteen genital switcheroos and nose jobs, breast jobs, or any other plastic or reconstructive surgery. Sexual identity is obviously a lot stronger an infleuence on human behavior than is bra cup size (yes, even for me, though barely)...the very existence of transgenered indivisuals attests to that.

[Angelus]

86. Very well said, ForrestGump!

I couldn't have said it any better myself! :thumbsup:

[ForrestGump]

89. Thanks...actually, I think that nonconformist

said it all with "you're attracted to who you're attracted to," Hard to argue with that, whether you're talking gender (physiological or otherwise), body structure, hair color and length, or whatever else.

[Angelus]

90. True dat, bud.

:toast:

[BlondieK143]

88. Thank you!!!!

*applause*

[SarahB]

91. Can I third that?

People shouldn't have to apologize about who they're attracted too. While I wouldn't inherently be attracted to a transgendered male to female because I'm strait, I don't think I'd likely want to be with a transgendered female who became male simply because those are just issues I don't want to delve into for me personally. I feel comfortable with who I am gender-wise and would prefer someone who has always been the same. Having a partner who has had another gender in the past IS a pretty big deal and not wanting to delve into those issues is beyond that of whether someone is being simply PC.

I've seen people get down on men because they say they like a particularly feminine, curvaceous type woman, as if that was the only factor they'd look for or as if somehow a woman who did look as such would somehow be a moron or less evolved than a more androgynous looking women. We both know that's not the case. A women can be feminine or blessed with various assets and be nowhere near a plastic, shallow buffoon. She can enjoy those who appreciates what she may have physically, but can also tell when there are idiot types who see that as the only measure of a woman (you know I don't mean you at all I hope).

Same in the reverse. If a women may have a physical attraction to say, taller men, or a man who has other characteristics more inherently male on the list of secondary male sexual characteristics, it doesn't mean she is so shallow that that is all she sees, but preferences are just that and when desiring a partner for a romantic relationship, that has to be some chemistry there. Chemistry is by far not the only thing, but it's an important thing as well.

[TrogL]

94. Been there, done that

She was actually pre-op and sorta kidnapped her (she helped) since the previous time we had tried to get together I ended up jumping naked out her bedroom window (she threw my clothes out the window behind me) so it was easier to have her over at my place.

Apparently there's pictures on the net.

[Moderator]

95. Locking.

This thread is attracting too many personal attacks.