Watching replay of PBS' "The Wives of Henry VIII"

[CatWoman]

and it seems to me that he turned on his wives because they produced daughters instead of sons.

The male chromosome determines the sex of the child. I know they didn't know that back then.

All the same, it still pisses me off.

[Cush]

1. isn't that Henry the VIII ?

[CatWoman]

2. Good ole Tom

always there to keep me straight

:hi:

and to beat me posting news stories :D

[Cush]

3. hehehe, yup

:)

[SheilaT]

4. Keep in mind his own father

Henry VII had seized power in what was essentially a military coup, and of course the younger Henry wanted to continue the dynasty. This was an era in which maybe half of all children survived to adulthood, and because the upper class women did not nurse their own babies, thus depriving them of essential immunities, these babies died more readily.

In fact, I read somewhere that Anne Boleyn, Henry's second wife and mother of Elizabeth, totally scandalized everyone by insisting on nursing her own baby.

Anyway, it wasn't so much that his wives gave birth to girls, but that they failed to produce males who lived. The first wife, Catherine of Aragon, had several boys, one of whom survived an entire month. But the only one to live past infancy was a daughter.

And the third wife, Jane Seymour, managed to have a boy baby, then die ten days later.

A huge problem with that otherwise good series, is that it doesn't really give enough context to what was going on besides Henry's marital difficulties.

[CatWoman]

5. Do you think that if Jane had survived

Henry wouldn't have killed her too after he became bored with her?

BTW: I think karma kicked Henry in the ass.

Jane and Henry's son was crowned King, only to die as a teenager.

I read that prior to his death, his hair and nails fell out, and his body was covered in scabs.

[politicat]

7. H. worshipped Jane. And he couldn't risk any more turmoil.

Jane would have lived most likely.

And Edward's death was bad, but mostly because his doctors were treating him for tuberculosis with ....


wait for it....


mercury and arsenic.

Good, wholesome medicine that kills the hair folicles and nail beds, and makes the skin nice and fragile.

(Though there's a small possibility for syphillis inherited from dear old dad. Less likely, though I think, than the meds.)

Pcat

[CatWoman]

8. It seems to me that he worshipped all his wives at one point

except for Anne of Cleves.

[politicat]

6. Actually was thinking about this last night

(Okay, so in addition to being a shrink, I've got a significant degree in Euro. Hist. as well)

Was thinking about the Rh Factor. Henry has 4 kids that live to adult-ish age, Mary, Elizabeth, the Fitzhenry bastard boy, and Edward. Mary is her mother's first child, Elizabeth is Her mother's first child, the bastard is HIS mother's first child.... and well, Edward's mother Jane doesn't count.

Subsequent children from these mothers die very, very early or are miscarried. That sounds to me like untreated Rh factor incompatibility.

And since being Rh negative is relatively rare (20% of population?) is would not be unlikely that Hanky would end up married to / having children with 4 Rh positive women in his prime.

It was either that, or syphillis.

Pcat

[SheilaT]

19. I've come across the

Rh factor being a possible cause of Anne's childbearing problems. It does seem likely in her case. But Mary, the daughter of Henry and Catherine of Aragon, was the fourth or fifth pregnancy of Catherine's. So little was understood then about pregnancy, childbirth, nutrition, and so on, that it's sometimes a wonder that any babies lived to grow up.

In an industrialized country like this one, babies who are not breast fed usually survive and thrive. But in 16th century England (as well as in non-industrialized countries today) the immunities gained from breast mile are crucial to infant survival. Not to mention that they had no idea about germs, and hand washing wasn't practiced regularly.

The sixth wife, Catherine Parr, was perhaps the saintliest. She married an old, sick man who already had a history of discarding or killing wives. She had already been married and widowed twice to much older men, and was in love with a young, handsome gallant Thomas Seymour (brother of Jane Seymour) and put those plans on hold when Henry started courting her. In his old age Henry was a dangerous mass murderer, and she outlived him.

One does wonder about the karma of all involved.

[Rowdyboy]

9. I really believe old Henry adored Jane and, if she had lived...

would have stayed with her-at least until she was past childbearing age (she was only 28 when she died). If she had given him another son, he'd have held on for dear life.

It was so deeply ingrained-he had to insure the survival of a new dynasty and sons counted WAY more than daughters.

That series is really one of the best things I've ever seen on PBS.. Hope you enjoy!

[KG]

10. I'm Henry The Eighth, I Am

I'm Henry The Eighth, I Am
Herman's Hermits

(Murray/Weston)
- written in 1911
- popularized in England by Harry Champion

I'm Henry the eighth I am
Henry the eighth I am, I am
I got married to the widow next door
She's been married seven times before
And every one was an Henry (Henry)
She wouldn't have a Willy or a Sam (no Sam)
I'm her eighth old man, I'm Henry
Henry the eighth I am

Second verse same as the first

I'm Henry the eighth I am
Henry the eighth I am, I am
I got married to the widow next door
She's been married seven times before
And every one was an Henry (Henry)
She wouldn't have a Willy or a Sam (no Sam)
I'm her eighth old man, I'm Henry
Henry the eighth I am

------ lead guitar ------

I'm Henry the eighth I am
Henry the eighth I am, I am
I got married to the widow next door
She's been married seven times before
And every one was an Henry (Henry)
She wouldn't have a Willy or a Sam (no Sam)
I'm her eighth old man, I'm Henry
Henry the eighth I am

H-E-N-R-Y
Henry (Henry)
Henry (Henry)
Henry the eighth I am, I am
Henry the eighth I am

Yeah!

[Gildor Inglorion]

11. "I am my father's daughter."

All his philandering, all his religious and legal contortions, and all the pain and suffering he inflicted on his family and his kingdom had an unforseen and unforseeable outcome: Elizabeth I, probably the greatest and most effective monarch who ever reigned. Her like is to be found nowhere else in history, and her proudest boast was the quote posted above. That, and his incredibly generous treatment of Anne of Cleves post-divorce, make me think rather well of good old Henry VIII.

[Rowdyboy]

12. He also treated Catherine of Aragon with some patience

Even when she thwarted him by fighting the annulment. Anne Boleyn was probably the one wife he treated most badly. Henry adored Jane Seymour and mourned her deeply. He really seemed to like Anne of Cleves though he found he physically repulsive (I think they stayed card-playing/drinking buddies for life). Katherine Howard was a simple girl who was badly used by her family and made many mistakes. She broke his foolish old heart and revenge was preordained. Catherine Parr made him comfortable in his decline and he treated her well.

[Melodybe]

13. I'm a direct desendant of one of Catherine Parr's siblings

I'm not sure which one.

Also, Thomas Burns, someone on the Mayflower, and General Woodhall who fought in the American Revolutionary War, our genealogy is one of my grandmother's hobbies.

[Rowdyboy]

15. Very cool...I'm also descended from a couple of the guys

on the Mayflower (just not the individual you mentioned). Regardless, its likely we're cousins, so, :toast: to you and yours!

[CatWoman]

17. Boleyn is another example of karma kicking ones ass

she went well out of her way to humiliate Catherine of Aragon.

Personally, I think Catherine was his best wife.

Intelligent. Beautiful. Sophisticated. The product of great stock.

He got what he deserved from Howard.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

14. Elizabeth R.

was another great BBC mini series. Glenda Jackson was fabulous!

[Rowdyboy]

16. Glenda Jackson is pretty much my choice for Best Elizabeth Ever

She kicked ass. The only person that comes close (IMHO) is Bette Davis.

[Piperay]

18. I watched that a

couple of weeks ago, it was TERRIFIC! I am an Anglophile, can't get enough of British history. :-)