German Army To Life "Sex In Barracks" Ban

[matcom]

<snip>

BERLIN (Reuters) - A German army ban on sex in the barracks may soon be lifted because it's considered outdated, the government says.

Hannes Wendroth, spokesman for the Defense Ministry, confirmed Wednesday a report in Bild newspaper that said partners who are both serving in the armed forces should no longer be barred from having sex on German military installations.

"There was a feeling that the existing regulations were no longer in keeping with the times," Wendroth told reporters, referring to a rule that outlawed sex on military bases.

"We're looking into changes that would allow those who so desire to pursue their needs in their own privacy," he said.

The proposed changes would allow troops to have "partnership relationships within military facilities" and couples to live together there, according to a draft of the measure.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=573&e=1&u=/nm/20040422/od_nm/sex_dc

[meegbear]

1. SAAAAY!

Where do I sign up?

[Kellanved]

4. uhmm

That is the sad part of the story: draft. So it's "Don't call us, we'll call you". The current Government has eased the abuse on the conscripts, like no more cleaning-the-bathrooms-with-a-toothbrush, but it's not nice either.

I remember very well, when I got my letter : the mailwoman said "Uh-Oh. Feds", knowing exactly what the letter would say.

[Commendatori]

2. Ausgezeichnet!

Of course, they've been promising this for years.

[Canuckistanian]

5. Ganz prima!

Fornication ist ja endlich legal! Mindestens in die Armee.

[happyslug]

3. Returning to the Middle ages

Yes the Army returning to the Middle ages, where it was common for couples to have sex in the barracks. It is only with the "modernization" of the world armies after about 1880s that you have woman barred from bases and sex restricted to outside the base.

Clarification: From the Middle ages to about 1880 any army unit that had 20 or more men also had 1 woman per each group of 20 men (The official title of the woman was "washerwoman" but her duties extend beyond just washing clothes to including cooking, sewing and other duties woman have traditionally done for men).

Do not confuse "washer woman" with "camp followers". Washerwoman were inside the Army camp and subject to army discipline. Camp followers were outside the camp and outside Army discipline. Washerwoman were a respected part of the army, generally married to a Sergeant (Who tended to command the 20 man Platoon that the woman was the washer woman to). In regular army units these woman tended to be related (i.e. married to each other's brother, OR the wife of the other washer women's brother).

It is only with the decision that cooks and nurses had to be given "training" that the position of Washer woman was eliminated. The Government was willing to train and educate men, but the idea of sending the men's wives to school repulsed them. Thus the army's schools for Cooks and nurses were restricted to men and these men replaced the washer woman (and from the reports of the time period not to well, the food became more uniform, but general quality went down).

But my point was as long as you had Washer woman in the Army you had sex in the barracks between married couples and now 130 years after such sex was abolished it is returning. Yet another example that the Middle ages (c900-1400)had a better idea of how to organize a equitable society than the later Renaissance (c1300-1600), Reformation (c1500-1700) The Enlightenment (c1650-1800), Industrial (c1750-1900) and Modern ages.

The Middle Ages is the only age where practicality was preferred over theory. The later Renaissance preferred Roman and Greek Social Theory, The Reformation preferred St Paul and "Reform", the Enlightenment preferred "Reason" The Industrial Age preferred what ever made money for the owners of Capital and only in the Modern age have you seen a return to "practicality" and thus a return to many of the rules of the Middle Ages.

[Canuckistanian]

6. Wow, have you got a PhD in Barrack History?

Very interesting.

[happyslug]

7. No, just a student of History

The older I get the more I enjoy reading (and speculating) how the common person lived as opposed to the wealthy. The problem with understanding how the average person lived is our records were kept for by and of the Wealthy classes. For example the history of "Books". Prior to about 100 BC books were written on loose papers and rolled when stored. Scrolls would be a better name for such writings. While such scrolls were read, it was more common for them to be read to a large group of people. This was true of ALL books written before the invention of the Printing Press, Books were NOT written to be read alone, but to be read OUT LOUD and to a LARGE Group. Thus Caesar's Commentaries were not written by him to be read by his followers in Rome, but to be READ to them by the Roman Priests (Caesar was chief Priest of Rome).

Because books had to be HAND COPIED ONE AT A TIME, it was easier to READ them to a large group than to have everyone read them alone. If you ever attended a Catholic Mass you will see the readers reads various passages of the Old and New Testaments. THIS WAS HOW MOST PEOPLE HEARD WHAT WAS IN BOOKS PRIOR TO ABOUT 1500.

Thus the Bible was NOT written as one book, but is a collection of books which were NEVER intended to be read as one "Book". Furthermore the books of the Bibles were intended to be HEARD more than READ. This is how most people learned not only their Religion but their history, gossip and even the news they needed to know.

Thus the common people of the past went to church not so much to get "religion" but to socialize and learn what was going on in the wider world around them. A favorite story of mine is of Peter the Hermit of the First Crusade. He spread the word throughout Europe for a Crusade to recover the holy lands. He went from Church to Church. He was like the net today, spreading his message to all who wanted to hear it. You had nothing like it occurring in pagan Rome, for the leadership of Rome never left the control of Information out of their hands. Much of the Criticism of the Crusades at the time period was from leaders FORCED by their people to go on Crusade. Subsequent Western European attacks on the Crusades was do more to the fear caused by the lost of control of Information than any real problems with the Crusades themselves. The Idea that the people may COMMUNICATE among themselves and lead to CHANGE was frightening. The Crackdown on Hermits, Friars and other independent Religious people Begin as the Crusades died out. Control over information became important, to important to be left to people outside the control of the Governing Classes of Europe.

This lead to the Strengthening of the Catholic Hierarchy subsequent to the Crusades and that Strengthening lead to the Protestant Reformation of the 1500s (the Protestant Reformation started out as a rejection of that Strengthening and than strengthen its own hierarchy). All of this was to control the spread of Information among the lower classes. The giant growth in inventions of the Dark ages died out with the coming of the Renaissance and the Reformation NOT because of the Renaissance and the Reformation but because you had a cut back in the spread of ideas and needs of the lower classes.

Even the Spread of Gunpowder occurred just before the Renaissance (and subsequent improvements in the use of Gunpowder has more to do with everyone fearing a military disadvantage than to help their fellow man).

During the period between 1400 and 1800, you had some inventions, for example the use of Pulleys on Ships (about 1600s) and the Franklin Stove (More to help the people in the Cities than the 90% of the people who still lived in the Countryside), but as a whole rare was the invention that helped the lower classes. A peasant from the 1300 could be put on a farm in the early 1800s and be fully interchangeable (Unlike a peasant from 300 AD who would have to learn to use iron tools, horse collars, iron plows and the making of hay whether he and transported to the 1300s or the 1800s).

Thus the common person had limited reasons for learning to read and write prior to 1500. Books were rare and out of his price range (And rarely if ever had any thing about how to plant his crops). Now the medieval church claimed almost all of its members could read and write, but that was to the limit of reading signs, directions etc as opposed to the modern definition of actually reading and writing. Even through this sounds like a low level of reading, it was still higher than what the Romans and Greeks poor received in education. I once told someone that the jump from Roman reading level (NONE to the Medieval Reading level of Limited but functional reading and writing) was a larger jump than the 1800s jump from the limited reading and writing to what today we call reading and writing.

This lack of Communication effected how people did things and communicated things. One of the facts of the difference between Roman and Medieval times is the speed of the spread of inventions. In Roman Times it took from 100 BC to 400AD for the water wheel to spread from the Mideast to Western Europe. Why? It helped the common man not the wealthy elites as such the Romans elites had no use for it. It was only spread with the spread of Christianity (and more through the work of the Christian Missionaries helping the poor help themselves than the conversion from Paganism to Christianity).

The Heavy Iron Plow had been used in what is now Turkey for centuries prior to the Roman Empire, yet does not appear in Western Europe (where it was needed to turn over the ground after the long winter) till the 7th Century (and then it was from Eastern Europe NOT Italy). The Heavy plow opened up Northern France, Germany and England to what we would call "farming" as opposed to herding with some small gardening. The Introduction of the Heavy plow is again is believed to be the work of Christian Missionaries, who spread the Knowledge of the heavy plow to the Slavs in what is now the Ukraine and Poland, and from that area it spread to Germany, France and even England.

Less tied in with the Spread of Christianity was the adoption of "Modern" iron making (as opposed to Industrial Iron and Steel making used since the invention of the Bessemer furnace in 1868 AND the primitive Iron Making of Roman and Greek Times).

"Modern" Iron Making came out of China about the time of Christ, reached what is now Russia about the time of Justinian (About 550AD) and than spread throughout Europe. This made Iron cheap compared to Earlier times, so cheap that you had Iron Shovels and Farm instruments instead of the early and inferior Wooden Shovels etc. The Horse Shoe, Horse Collar, the Ball bearing and even hay came out of the so call "Dark Ages".

All of these inventions tended to help the poorer elements of society and where taken for granted by most people by the time of the Renaissance. I can go on, for example the Ship's rudder (Prior to the invention of the Rudder in the Middle ages, the only way to steer a ship was with a "steering oar" which hanged from the side of the ship and exposed itself and its user to the elements) but the big inventions were Middle Ages Inventions NOT Renaissance inventions.

With the opening up of Public Education in the 1800s you again see the SPREAD of inventions (and the inventions themselves) that are design to help the common man, the Steel Plow, the increase use of Mules instead of oxen for hauling and farm work, etc all tied in with the spread of information caused by the invention of cheap high speed printing presses (About 1750).

The hand press had been invented in the 1450s by Gutenberg, but that only permitted the printing of cheaper versions of still expensive books that were now to be read instead of read out loud. Do to this change, the poorer elements of society actually saw LESS information between the 1450s and 1750s because while the emerging upper Middle class could buy these books, the poor and working classes could not AND WITH INFORMATION NOW BEING SPREAD BY READING INSTEAD OF BEING READ TO, information to the poor and working class declined.

It is only with the high speed steam presses of the 1750s that you start to see book filtering down to the lower classes. These permitted even cheaper books but only if enough volume could be made to sell those books. The Wars of the French Revolution broke the hold over most Governments had over their working classes permitting them to meet and exchange ideas. Thus you had a re-birth of inventions that would help most people, for example the Sewing Machine, the Pencil (The Steel pen would be late 1800s but the Pencil would be the preferred writing instrument till long after the invention of the Ball point pen in the 1940s), Steel and than Rubber tires, and even the Bicycle would be inventions of the 1800s to help the Working class do their work.

My point is I like to see how people did things in the past, common things like making a living. You can only do that by understanding How information was spread and thus I read.