Is it sexist?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

I just can't seem to help myself. I keep calling women 'girls'. Iit doesn't matter how old they are, how serious or intelligent they are, it just keeps slipping out. I usually notice when I say it but then later on I say it again. But I don't call men 'boys' -- so I have to wonder if I am reflecting some underlying sexist attitude or am I just repeating the words that were imprinted on me in childhood -- or both.


Is it sexist?

And sexist or not, is it offensive?

PS - if you do think it's sexist, please at least giving me some credit for posing the question.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. i call men and women : girls and boys

i think thats fair, but to do one and not the other would be sexist

[ronnykmarshall]

3. Same here.

My parents refer to Michael and I as "The Boys" and I refer to some of my female couple friends as "the girls".

Maybe it's a gay thang. But most of my friends don't find the terms offensive. I guess we don't have sticks THAT far up our asses ...

(running from the flames)

[VelmaD]

4. Gotta agree...

to do it to one gender and not the other is sexist.

To address the original poster...yes, I think it is partly societal. We're more likely to hear women referred to as girls than men referred to as boys. You're just reflecting the sexism of society.

That doesn't take you off the hook though. Now that you recognize your behavior I would hope that awareness leads to you changing it. Good luck with that...it's not easy. :)

[Parrcrow]

2. Lets face it, because of the way we were all raised....

the word itself is not sexist. The underlying attitude may be. That's a question that only you can answer.

[jobycom]

8. damn

you said the same thing I did, using a fraction of the words. Well done.

[Parrcrow]

10. Thank you Joby....

I liked your post too and obviously I agree with every word of it.
:hi:

[slksln]

5. I could be wrong...

But I am a girl, and I use the word girl interchangably with woman, but generally only for those women at an equal level with me (socially, professionally, whatever) or somewhat below me. I don't think I'd ever call my boss a girl. Maybe a Lady or a Woman, but prolly not a girl.

But I'm one of those damn southerners who still uses the words Ma'am and Sir when addressing adults. Here at university, barely anyone calls their profs anything other than "excuse me" or "hey" sometimes they'll say Doctor or something.

I suppose I don't generally call males boys, but I generally opt for "guys" rather than men.

And once again, I call everyone who is being difficult woman, but that tends to be a joke, and probably would be considered sexist if said to the wrong person. *shrug*

I am well aware that women TEND to be more difficult than men, especially in relationships, I've been in relationships with both.

And I'm not being sexist, it's just the way things are.

[jobycom]

6. It implies a difference of stature-- men are adults, girls are not

In that way it is offensive, and is to me, even as a man.

Who can say whether it reveals an underlying sexist assumption on your part, or simply an inability to alter your language. I would say you could answer it yourself if you are honest with yourself. The fact that you think you should change it but don't hints that maybe the problem isn't simply vocabulary, but an underlying assumption that dictates you vocabulary. Maybe not a conscious assumption, and maybe even an innocuous one, but still, an assumption.

It's hard to overcome culture. That's why Republicans win. They tell people to be happy with their prejudices, rather than to strive to be better. It's much easier, requires less soul searching, and it protects people's feelings of superiority. Shortcomings are not good for the soul, though, as you know-- or you wouldn't be asking.

[pmbryant]

7. Personally, I am uncomfortable with that usage

I don't know if it is sexist, but the way you use it, I suspect it is offensive to a fairly large number of people. Many people may also assume there is an underlying sexist attitude, even if there is not, because such attitudes are still extremely prevalent.

--Peter

[arcane1]

9. I tend to use "girls" and "guys"

for people of all ages... nothing particularly editorial about it, they are just the terms I've used most of my life, I guess... I'm old enough to be called a "man" but for some reason that word never seemed to fit :silly:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. Hmmm

girls and guys.... I think those are the two terms I use most... not girls and men.... hmm, I feel a little better now.

[VelmaD]

16. Still worth considering...

why "guys" and not "boys" though.

Actually it's worth considering why our language has the word guys...something that isn't "men" or "boys...but there isn't really an equivalent word for women.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. If it's any comfort to you

it's worse in French.

[Ratty]

17. Equivalent to "guys", not boys

I'd say if you use it in the same context as you would say "guy" then it's not sexist. "Women and guys" sounds weird and stilted. If you're the boss of a company and refer to your male employees as "men" but then refer to your female secretaries as "girls," then that's sexist.

An argument can be made that the equivalent of "guy" is actually "gal" but I wouldn't go near that one with a ten foot pole.

The cardinal rule is always always always call people what they want to be called. That means you get a freebie the first time. The individual in question may politely correct you at that time. If they get pissed then it's their problem, not yours.

That's my philosophy.

[arcane1]

21. then you throw 'dude' into the mix

and chaos ensues :silly:

[Ratty]

22. Not to mention guys and dolls

But then you're in REALLY big trouble

[arcane1]

25. let's just go back to male and female

although I'm sure the prefix will piss someone off... :silly:

[Demonaut]

11. I refer to women as girls because it implies they're young

never thought it might be considered sexist, now calling women "broads" or "chicks" is that sexist?

[JohnKleeb]

12. broads may be, but chicks I dont think is

Speaking from an ancedotal point of view, I know some girls who say chicks when talking about themselves and others.

[VelmaD]

13. John you're young...

which I guess means I should cut you some slack about not really understanding the history of how language has been used. It is not ok for men to refer to women as a group as broads or chicks, particularly in a professional setting.

What women call themselves among themselves is a completely different matter (see any one of the "bitch" threads for a discussion of co-opting language by oppressed groups).

[Misunderestimator]

15. Good, I just tied it up

I was concerned when I saw that the "No" votes were more than the "Yes" ones... until I saw that there were only 25 total. Hmm... Now I'd like to see a poll split women / men.

Are you a woman who feels it is sexist?
Are you a woman who feels it is NOT sexist?
Are you a man who feels it is sexist?
Are you a man who feels it is NOT sexist?

Could be telling.

On edit... wow, that was quick... more boys in here than girls, perhaps. :)

[Skinner]

26. Here are the stats so far (*BIG* gender split on this one)

Female Voters
Choice 1: 60%
Choice 2: 30%
Choice 3: 10%

Male voters:
Choice 1: 30%
Choice 2: 70%
Choice 3: 0%

Undeclared voters:
Choice 1: 50%
Choice 2: 50%
Choice 3: 0%

(Personally, it has always made me cringe whenever I hear someone refer to a grown woman as a girl. There is a clear double-standard on the usage of girl and boy to refer to adults.)

[Misunderestimator]

28. Oh man!! I DO love this site.

Now that's service! :)

Just about what I would have guessed. Thanks for the post, Skinner.

[VelmaD]

30. That is stunning...

but not surprising.

[slinkerwink]

38. personally, I think discussions like this one are helping us see

what ingrained behavior might be sexist or not. :hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

18. I call myself chick all the time.

I'm 24, and when it comes from me, only a select few here at DU get offended. But you can't worry about those few that get offended so easily by everything.
Duckie

[Misunderestimator]

24. I call women chicks too.... SOMETIMES

It's all in the delivery and the intent. I am 41 years old, and once had an executive introduce me and a few other women in our group as girls to someone in a professional situation. He never referred to men as boys, or even as guys in the same situation.

Certainly you can see the sexism in that? Or do you think I was just easily offended?

Not a black and white issue.

[cally]

34. Gee, why can't you worry about those offended?

when 60 percent of women who responded said it was sexist.


I would like to quote from Ratty's post above:

"The cardinal rule is always always always call people what they want to be called. That means you get a freebie the first time. The individual in question may politely correct you at that time. "

That's my philosophy also. I try to not offend others after I've been told it's offensive. I will fight for my opinions, my country, and world peace but not for a right to use a word that offends others--even if they are a minority. I cannot comprehend why anyone would.

[Misunderestimator]

36. Wow.... you said that so well

bears repeating:

"That's my philosophy also. I try to not offend others after I've been told it's offensive. I will fight for my opinions, my country, and world peace but not for a right to use a word that offends others--even if they are a minority. I cannot comprehend why anyone would."

[slinkerwink]

37. yep, broads or chicks can be construed sexist

[SOteric]

19. As many others have said,

It has the potential to be sexist and/or offensive, but is not perhaps automatically sexist and/or offensive. It very much depends on the underlying attitude, your level of acquaintance and relationship to the individuals in question.

I will say this; I occassionally do some volunteer work with a group of treasured parishners of distinguished age at church. You have never seen women happier to hear the term 'girl' applied to them than those over 60. Most haven't heard it in ages and it brings back a flood of memories about their self-concept which are for the most part positive.

[VelmaD]

20. Sounds like my mom...

if I refer to her as one of the girls she loves it (she's in her 60s.) But woe betide the man who refers to her as a girl. They're gonna get an earful about treating women with respect. :)

[tjwash]

23. I call men and womwn guys and gals.

Now calling women "chicks" and "wenches" on the other hand...

[tishaLA]

27. I never say "girls" when referring to women

but there is no way it's inherently sexist to do so. In fact, I call guys "cats" sometimes and it's not anti-feline.

[Kat45]

31. Had an employer who referred to "the girls" in the office, one of whom

was his elderly mother! I was quite bothered to here him referring to his mother that way.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Canuckistanian]

40. Hey, Name removed! haven't seen you in a while

How's Not At This Address Anymore? And that girl you used to date, umm, Cannot Find User, wasn't it?
I don't get your post title "Message Removed". That's the same one you used last time.
:hi:

[Taverner]

33. If she's your friend or even acquaintence

And it's OK...not sexist

If it's some complete stranger - it will offend more often than you might intend it to.

Is it in itself sexist? No. There is no such thing as a racist, sexist or hateful 'word.' Only a context that can make the meaning so.

[Nikia]

35. It is sexist

That is one thing that clued me in that the place that I worked, when I first started was sexist. The production superviser preferred to the men and the girls. At the time, the youngest "girl" was close to 30 with a couple of the "girls" being around 60. If your female friends are comfortable with it and know that you don't mean to be sexist by it, it is alright to use it with them. For strangers, especially in a professional setting, you will come across as sexist.

[geniph]

39. Why do you ask, boy?

(and yes, in case you can't tell, I'm one of the ones that do think it can certainly be construed as offensive, and as such, should not be used unless you hear the female in question refer to herself as such.)

Start calling men boys, and see how long it takes before someone takes a swing at you.