Will guest workers participate in Social Security?

[trogdor]

Will they be required to pay into the SS system, and will their employers be required to pay matching contributions?

THIS is the question (one of them, anyway) we should be asking the administration when this travesty goes to the Congress.

It's a lose-lose, really. If they are eligible to participate, they will be a further drain on the system. If not, employers will get to pocket the 7.3% or whatever, and this will provide an incentive to use any BS excuse that will fly to place more and more jobs into the category of "jobs Americans don't want (tm)."

[cthrumatrix]

1. they would pay and receive...(even for those who have not contributed)

look in archive there were discussion on this with WSJ articles

[papau]

3. Since they would pay into SS, they receive benefits - but at expected low

wages, SS is a subsidized floor for the aged to keep them off the streets.

So first 5 years it adds to the financing of the Bush tax cut for the rich - but after that it helps justify the Bush cuts to SS (private account - modernization)

[w13rd0]

2. Do indentured servants...

...get retirement plans?

[Gysgt213]

4. Who will pick up the tab for these guest workers?

I have some questions to ask those who support Bush proposed guest worker program for illegal immigrants. This is not an attempt to bash the either the President (I can find plenty other reasons for that) or immigrations no matter from where they hail. My only concerns are whether the person is in this country legally or illegally because I think we will suffer some severe consequences if proposal ever becomes the law of the land.

Will anyone be happy paying additional state taxes and fees to support the President’s program? Historically one of the problems with, most but not all federal programs, rules and regulations imposed on states, no matter who is in the white house or congress, is the federal government’s failure to fully fund that which they impose. With President Bush’s recent federal tax cuts it is a reality that a large number of states have had to raise taxes, fees and cut programs to balance their budgets which most are mandated to do. I see no indication that if this proposal comes into law that the federal government is prepared to fund it. Who does that leave to pick up the tab?

Some might ask well if the workers are going to be working how in the world can that mean higher state taxes for me. It doesn’t make any sense. Well, if these workers are coming in to take jobs Americans don’t want to do, (it could be possible Americans don’t want them because they don’t pay enough to afford an apartment in America but, you could build a house on it in Mexico. Just a thought) then it must mean the jobs are low paying minimum wage with few if any benefits. I find it very hard to believe that any American would not stoop to picking fruit or emptying trash cans if they were being paid $15.00 dollars an hour with plenty of overtime pay and health care coverage. What employer is going to spring for health care for minimum wage workers? How is the employee going to afford it making minimum wage? Who’s going to pay for the inspectors and investigators to ensure guest workers aren’t abused? So, who does that leave to pick up the tab?

Most of the guest workers coming will bring at least their immediate families. That means extra kids at your school district. Will you be happy with the thought of larger class sizes? How about extra schools having to be built and extra teachers who have to be paid? The guest workers are not going to be making that much money so their tax dollar contributions are going to basically nonexistent. So who does that leave to pick up the tab?

What about the economic impact? This isn’t an insult but most illegal immigrants here now are very resourceful when comes to saving money to send back to their home country. With some of the hardship they enduring living in their home countries, living together to save money on rent, car pooling to save money on gas, going without luxuries and eating low cost to prepare meals is no hardship to them. Some estimates have illegal Mexican immigrants alone sending 14 billion dollars to the benefit of the Mexican economy. You have to ask yourself would they be able to that on the wages of lowing paying jobs while spending significantly on our economy. In my mind that’s a drain not an improvement to our economy. So who’s left to pick the tab?

What about wage erosion an American workers job displacement? I heard this argument that their will safeguards built into the proposal if it becomes a law to prevent employers from displacing American workers. I would bet that if you did a survey that there is a significant amount of American workers working at good paying jobs in this country that don’t require any advance education or training. Not high paying jobs but good paying jobs. I’m talking about jobs where employers can train workers in house to do. For example, in some states and cities being a trash collector pays pretty good, working construction and car assembly plants are just a few examples of jobs your not going to get rich at and don’t need a advanced degree for but, you can at least make a decent enough wage to live and provide your self with a few comforts. Anyone familiar with any companies out there not trying to lower there costs and increase profits? You know of any companies that wouldn’t take advantage of a loophole or weak tax law to reduced their tax burden or take advantage of a weak SEC rule to increase the amount on their profits reports and increase their stock price. If you have been watching the news some employers have come up with very creative ways to get around laws that threaten their bottom lines. So creative in fact the federal government has a very difficult time proving they even broke any laws. Do you honestly think they are not going to be able to figure out how to stop paying you 15 or 20 dollars an hour to perform duties they can train and pay a guest worker 5 or 6 dollars and hour to do and even prevent the federal government from doing anything about it? Do you think it would be that hard for them to figure out how to lower your wages and then say to the federal government we can’t find American workers to perform these duties and be incompliance with the law? Think about further your education while companies figure out ways to either export or import white collar and technical jobs and workers. Who’s going to be left to pick up the tab?

Finally, we have a vast and a resource rich country. But even our land and resources are limited. Take a look at any third world country or any other country for that matter that cannot or is struggling to provide for its people. I will bet one of the main reasons they are in bad economic shape is because they don’t have enough land and or available resources to support their population. I bet you will find that overpopulation is extreme drain on what resources they do have. Do you think we have enough water supplies and food and other services to support significant populations of other countries and receive nothing in return. If you looked at other countries experiences with guest worker programs you might find that having a guest worker program is not going to decrease illegal immigration. If anything it will increase it because their will be business in forging guest worker documents, some employers will scrutinize those documents even less then they do now and cultural enclaves of foreign nationals will be available for illegal workers to vanish into. With estimates of 9 to 12 million illegal alien in this country already do you think that there might possibly be one or two that would be not mind making a few extra dollars providing some what low exposure assistance to a terror organization? If the neither the FBI or any branch of the federal government for that matter doesn’t know who’s here now how the hell are they going to figure out it when a terrorists uses a legal program to get here. After all they were able to fly planes into buildings by legally getting freely handed out visas from the State Department representatives in Saudi Arabia were they not? Some say that this proposal will never come to past and that by proposing it he will win the votes of Hispanic American voters. A politician trying to win votes is certainly not unheard of and almost expected if you want to win political office in this country but, trying to win them as a political ploy at the expense our national security and America’s sovereignty is something I can’t bring myself to admire in any president.

[papau]

5. The "tab" will be paid by the aged via lower benefits/private accts

being the solution to the increase cost!