BBV NYC: Rush Holt will be on WNYC radio @ 10:00 a.m. Eastern today

[Stephanie]

Rush Holt will be discussing his paper ballot bill with Brian Lehrer this morning. The show airs from 10:00 a.m. to noon. I have a feeling he will be on first, as he has been most heavily promoted this week. Show can be heard streaming here:

http://www.wnyc.org/

They have the same daytime programming on a.m. and f.m.

Let's provide Brian with some informative questions. Pataki has made a huge push to get touchscreens installed throughout the state. Lobbyists are in Albany now vying for the huge contract.

[brainshrub]

1. Oops

ON EDIT: Oops. Ignore me.

[Stephanie]

2. Holt is up next, after the news

Brian's promo: Rush Holt and his new bill that will stop computer voting fraud before it starts.

[creativelcro]

4. I'm listening... 11:05 East. Not on ?...

[Stephanie]

5. He's introducing now

Cure may be worse than the disease. No paper ballot backup. CEO promised to help deliver the vote to Bush.

[Stephanie]

3. you can email questions here

[e-mail]

[Stephanie]

6. Holt says

Voter may find ATM type machine in voting booth. You leave booth thinking this was clear and easy. Machine tells you if you neglected to vote every ballot line.

Brian - It feels like it's accurate and user friendly.

Holt - Yes, and good for voters with impairments. But you may wonder if your vote was accurate. But you can't know, and noone can ever know.

Brian - is the paper ballot backup the solution?

Holt - Each machine would have parallel audit trail - a record - so each voter can inspect before it is cast. When vote cast, paper record is stored in a secure box available for recount. Legis also does away with wireless comm bet machines. Also requires a spotcheck audit in 1/2 of 1% of precincts. Likely to uncover any errors whether innocent or intentional hacking.

Brian - I know you were a scientist before you went to Congress. Random spotchecking on regular basis would go a long way to keeping people honest.

Holt - Bill is called Voter Confidence Act. I don't want Americans to have any reason not to vote. When they say 'my vote doesn't count' often they say now 'my vote won't be counted'. Lack of confidence in system. I think with audit it will be apparent that bugs have been taken out of software and attempts to manipulate software have been caught.

[Stephanie]

7. Caller from Virginia

I have a problem giving my vote to an electronic cloud. I don't want my vote traceable to me, but with mechanical systems it's possible to be sure that your vote is verifiable but not traceable.

Brian - How do I know whether what I think I'm recording actually is with the lever machines?

Caller - Was election inspector. If you learned how system was setup. You can be sure.

Holt - with mechanical system it's easy for anyone without sophisticated training to see that it's responding well. With software there can be a hidden bug. With malicious intentions it's even scarier that someone could shift a fwe percent of the votes in a way that could go undetected.

This parallel paper record which becomes the vote of record is randomized, no way to trace to voter. Available for recount. No way to trace to voter. The secrecy of vote is sacred and must be kept that way.

[Stephanie]

8. re: Diebold chairman - walden o'dell

Holt - O'dell said he wanted to deliver votes to one candidate. Unfortunate choice of words. Certainly doesn't fill voter with confidence. I think if my bill were in place. If software as required under my bill were open for public inspection, then CEO's political persuasion wouldn't make any difference.

[creativelcro]

10. Ok, listening, now. Just as the ads kicked in... :)

[Bozita]

9. Thanks, Stephanie. -- This is great; the BBV story stays in the news

[creativelcro]

11. overstates the risk ?

Idiot.

[Stephanie]

12. Taking calls now

Ralph - I think Holt for political purposes overstates the risk. Now there are ways to test software, and then you need controls to ensure tested software is what's being used. Because O'Dell said that doesn't mean he's going to put a bug in software. I do think he overstates the risk. I'm shocked he would make claim that you cannot secure software.

Holt - Verification process should belong to voter. Now the company vouches for the software. When you have independent paper record that voter can personally verify that build confidence in a way that software inspectors won't. Furthermore there are memos that show tehy are patching software days before the election, untested software.

Ralph - say you want paper ballot for that reason, but not because o'dell said that.

Brian - If somebody who ran a voting machine company WANTED to do tthat, wouldn't it be easy to program so it looks like one vote is being cast when on what's being counted is another?

Ralph - Concerns are legitimate, but way he justifies is not. I would require independent verification. He's right, they shouldn't be changing it two days before election.

HOlt - Brian brought up the Diebold example. My point is public's concern that there might be something wrong, or even computer crash, is not misplaced. Legis would address, whatever support.

Brian - is bill getting bipartisan support?

Holt - first only democrats. Repubs at first thought it was payback for FL. AFter republicans lost seats in Fairfax VA in touchscreen counties, suddenly republicans started signing on.

Brian - so you think this is oging to pass?

HOlt - the internet is abuzz with this. There are blogs devoted to just this. My colleagues say they're hearing about it all the time. Because level of interest is so high I think it will move. Roughly half the Democrats have signed on.

Brian - a lot of listeners bringing this to our attention.

[creativelcro]

13. Picking up co-sponsors.

He seems optimistic today... Good.

[creativelcro]

14. story is in the mainstream media

[Stephanie]

15. Caller - Johns Hopkins study, leaked memos

Why not in mainstream news?

HOlt - Johns Hopkins scientist said software not secure. Memos showed lack of concern.

Caller - INternal documents from Diebold - inside documents were concerns raised by low-level programmers about how insecure software was.

Holt - there has been a great deal of attention. Dozens of newspapers have editorialized. Not always front page but NY Times has covered. I think press has paid some attention. Doesn't match the level of attention that has been paid on the internet.

[Stephanie]

16. Caller - Georgia and Colorado records have all been erased

Also do you think we can have confidence for 2004.

Brian - Talk about Georgia

Caller - they can't audit aggregated records.

Brian - from our email, machines in Georgia broke down

Holt - The Georgia election has upset many people. The fact that what happened there will remain a mystery is exactly my point. The instant the voter leaves the booth you have no way of finding whether that record was right. A recount is meaningless. If there was a slip between recording and casting of vote no one will know. The paper record that each voter has inspected will be the vote of record that is saved to preserve records. So whether provisional or absentee each jurisdiction has procedure for saving records and would use same procedures for this.

[creativelcro]

17. Swarthmore student

involved in lawsuit against Diebold on the leaked Diebold memos.

[creativelcro]

18. Big issue, however: how do you trigger a recount?

[Stephanie]

19. Brian- what is name of bill

HR 2239, Voter Confidence Act

Holt - I am the sponsor. About a hundred co-sponsors, including growing number of Republicans.

Caller - I was one of the students suing Diebold for trying to shut us down for posting internal memos.

Holt - I think you performed a public service

Caller - One of the questions at our conference was what to do in case the printout ballot doesn't match electronic tally. If the results are different how do you resolve that?

Holt - Well it's because there might be such discrepancy is why we need the bill. If there's a discrepancy, you go with the vote of record, which is ballot voter ahs personally inspected which is the paper ballot. And if there is a descrepancy you would start testing the software.

Brian - Have you endorsed a Dem?

HOlt - I endorsed Dean

[creativelcro]

20. Whoo Ho! Holt endorses Dean