Al From, asked a specific question on Deans record:

[tinnypriv]

Louisville, Ky.: Can you discuss specific reasons that Howard Dean does not reflect centrism in his record as Vermont governor?

Al From: I expected a lot of questions today from Howard Dean supporters - and you have not disappointed me. The DLC has praised many of the things Howard Dean did as governor. But we do have some difference on issues -- particularly security issues -- with what Governor Dean has said in his campaign. For me, however, the issue is not Governor Dean -- it's what kind of a party and what kind of a nominating process we will have. The Democratic Party is the oldest and greatest party in the world. It has a rich history of standing for opporunity and inclusion, for national strength and civic responsibility, of being for constructive government. It's at its greatest when it has espoused great national purposes and not been dominated by it constituency groups. That the kind of party we need to be to beat George Bush -- and in 2004 those great purposes need to be keeping our country safe, defeating terrorism, growing the economy, creating jobs, and renewing the American Dream.

....

In other words, his record is fine and we're just talking SHIT. We can't say his record isn't centerist so we'll smear and waffle instead. :mad:

[Capn Sunshine]

1. As Burt pointed out in another thread

He somehow is putting the message out there about "security"
Know why?

His boy LIEBERMAN is running on this issue alone.

[austinboy]

2. I also noticed...

..the question remained unanswered. Are we really idiots or do they take us for idiots based on their moronic polls? Hate to put on my :tinfoilhat: but the media has nothing to gain by telling the truth now.

edited for typo...:-)

[Cha]

3. Dean makes me feel more "secure" than this guy does.

[blm]

4. Of course they know he's a centrist...

he's one of them. This back and forth is a dog and pony show for both camps.

Dean talked tough against the DLC to get liberal $$$$ and they talk back at him for trash talking them. You know how ugly it gets when best friends get mad at each other?

[hedda_foil]

5. You know, blm ....

I recall your being asked and agreeing to state your opinions (which you are entitled to) as OPINIONS rather than fact. This is one of the many instances in which you are doing the opposite. While I have no doubt you believe the statement above, there is utterly no proof to back it up other than the fact that Dean was a member of the DLC as a governor. As such, your point of view comes across as a smear. Please make good on your promise to present your opinions as what they are ... your opinions.

Thanks,

hedda

[blm]

8. What are you talking about?

The above post is obviously the way I see it. Everyone's view of the DLC-Dean fight is their opinion, because of its basic inexplicable existence. It doesn't make much sense for a centrist group to attack one of its more centrist members as a far lefty does it?

Have you policed any posts that agree with your view and submit the same demand?

[hedda_foil]

19. blm ...

No, it isn't obvious that it's your personal opinion. And if I omit making it clear that an opinion of mine is just that ... an opinion ... I don't have a problem with being called on it and correcting it. However, I do make every effort not to make that mistake.

What about you?

[Imajika]

6. From is against Dean..

..mostly because Howard Dean was and still is against the war in Iraq.

I tend to agree that no candidate who was, or is, openly against the Iraq war will beat Bush. I recognize that this is not a popular position here on DU but I absolutely believe it is likely true.

About 60%-65% (probably closer to 65%) of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq and that support has never really significantly changed one way or the other. I am sure Al From believes, as do I, that the American public will continue to support the occupation of Iraq until and unless it becomes absolutely obvious that we have no chance to make any progress there. I do not mean absolutely obvious to DU, I mean so obvious that anyone watching TV could see we are getting nothing whatsover accomplished in Iraq. As of now, the picture is blurry enough that Americans will continue to support the policy in about the same numbers as they have in the past. So long as the US muddles along in Iraq and keeps the deaths of American servicemen to a trickle, then Bush will probably continue to hold the support he needs to stay on with his current policy.

I am positive From believes, and again - so do I, that an anti-war Democrat has a very good chance of being absolutely slaughtered in 04'. Further, the Democratic Party has more Senate seats up for grabs come 2004 and many of those seats are in regions which represent some of Bush's strongest support. We nominate any candidate perceived as weak on defense (and whether people here like it or not any anti-war platform is likely to be widely portrayed and regarded as weak on defense) we could see see a crushing blow dealt to our Party.

Personally I believe that the American public leans somewhat to the right on National Security/Defense issues, and slightly to the left on economic issues. In the age of terrorism and perceived threats, unless the economy is in horrible condition (and historically it is not at this time), national security will be the first priority in the minds of a majority of Americans. If Democrats can satisfy the majority of citizens that they are strong on national security issues, those same people will be willing to vote for a left of center economic agenda (I mean slightly left of center NOT Cuban revolution left of center).

At the end of the day, I do not believe Howard Dean can defeat Bush unless economic conditions and the situation in Iraq deteriorate dramatically. I suspect the DLC would agree and that is one of the primary reasons Al From is against Dean.

Imajika

[patdem]

12. Remember the polls are as able to be contrived as BBV machines

check out this post-seems the 'swing voters' the very ones the DLC is attempting to bring into the fold have a similar take on the Iraq war as does Dean! Read it and weep! :bounce:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=40942&mesg_id=40942&page=

[Octafish]

7. Dean has ZERO national security credentials

Dean supporters need to know some facts:

During Vietnam, Dean showed up for his draft physical but an "unfused vertebrae" in his lower back got him classified 1-Y. He celebrated his good luck by spending that same winter skiing. Some bad back.

Here's some opinion:

Dean has no relevant military experience other than avoiding it. THAT's exactly how Rove would paint Dean in a general election. And that's how the average American will remember it in the voting booth and the end result would be four more years of Bushit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Au Contraire

Dean had the Vermont National Guard under his command.

[RetroLounge]

10. More bullshit

He didn't ASK for the deferment, did he?

So once he got, who cares what he did, ski, fish, run, jump.

Who cares...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. You Have To Apply For A Deferment

but it is a non-issue


You have to give props to Kerry for serving and having nads.

[w4rma]

14. "I didn’t have anything to do with the decision. That was their choice."

Dean on the 1-Y deferment that was given to him

Dean: First of all, let me say that there’s only one person who’s contending for the Democratic nominee for president who did serve in the military, nomination for president, and then let me explain the circumstances of my draft classification. I went to my physical in Ft. Hamilton in Brooklyn, which was a great deal like the scene out of Alice’s Restaurant in terms of the different sizes, shapes, colors, and all kinds of people were there. I was given an examination. I had a previous back problem, which is evidently congenital, which prevented me from doing any sustained running, a problem that I’ve had since then, since that time, which requires that when I get out of the car I often have some pains up and down my leg and back and so forth. But I have been able to exercise at—ry vigorous athletic life except for some things. One of those is long-distance running, which is how the problem came to my attention in the first place. I noticed the pain when I was in high school running track. In any case, the—after the physical, I received a one Y deferment. That’s how the United States government decided that they would use me. One Y deferment means you can only be called in times of national emergency. I didn’t have anything to do with choosing any draft deferment. I didn’t try to get out of the draft. I had a physical. The United States government said this is your classification. I’m not responsible for that. I didn’t have anything to do with the decision. That was their choice.

Russert: A military physical.

Dean: Yeah. I had a military physical. I had a draft induction physical in Ft. Hamilton. I think it was, perhaps, during my senior year. I don’t remember the exact date.

Russert: If called, you would have served?

Dean: Of course.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp

[Cha]

22. I give kerry no props for voting for this bogus attack on

Iraq.

Dean took a physical and was turned down! Vietnam was a shit place to go ..I'm glad he didn't. Dean's brother was already killed in Laos! :kick:

[LSdemocrat]

11. re: your opinion

Too bad no one cares what people did in Vietnam. We elected Clinton twice and Bush is in the White House.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. "no one cares what people did in Viet Nam"

I'll bet the relatives of the 55,000 + soldiers who have their names on the Viet Nam Wall in DC care.

[stickdog]

18. And the deserter Bush?

Where do you want to AWOL today?

Bush can't possibly attack on this issue.

[TheBigGuy]

21. Oh baloney...

Clinton didnt have any military experience either.

I think Dean put that deferment issue to bed during his Russert interview.

[Fleshdancer]

16. I wish From would do his homework

Dean has already formulated his own plan regarding Homeland Security and he doesn't plan on being soft on the subject. He wants to increase military, intelligence, and police focus on offensive operation against terrorists, he wants to increase support and cooperation with our allies, and he wants to increase the budget for the first responders. How different is this from From's vision?

There's a lot more to his plan, but instead of writing or pasting a looooong post about it, I'll just throw out the link for everyone.

And on a side note...as far as Dean not fighting in Vietnam, I don't understand how not fighting in a war makes someone ignorant to the idea of how to prevent terrorism and increase national security. What is the connection exactly?

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_policy_homelandsecurity

edits: I can't spell.

[Ellen Forradalom]

17. Very revealing comment..

For me, however, the issue is not Governor Dean -- it's what kind of a party and what kind of a nominating process we will have.

According to the book Reinventing Democrats, the DLC was created to restore the 'party boss' role in the nominating process--to put power back in the hands of elected officials and reduce the strength of grassroots activists. Their perception is that nominees produced by the activist wing of the party tend to be too far left to be electable.

[TheBigGuy]

20. "the oldest poltical party in the world"???

I thought the Torys where the oldest political party.