I made a killing in the stock market today

[ringmastery]

My portfolio had its best one day gain ever.

I have mixed feelings. I want Bush gone, yet I can't say I'm not ecstatic at these stock market gains. If this keeps up all year long, it's going to be very tough to beat Bush. A lot of Americans own stocks and have 401k plans. They are going to be looking at their returns tonight and feeling good.

[radwriter0555]

1. It's not a killing until you sell the stocks, pay the taxes and still have

made a profit.

The mistake people make is holding when the stocks have dumped past a certain point.

I have one nanotech up 287% in 8 weeks. Nice piece of change, but the key is to sell it off to take the profit.

[King Coal]

5. There will be plenty of profit-taking tomorrow.

[creativelcro]

48. Yup, same here...

Up over 200%. I'm gonna sell by the end of the week.

[rooboy]

2. I had no idea...

that the president of the US had such direct control over the price of a company's stock.

[plcdude]

9. exactly

this is only going to last as long as the companies are perceived as increasing profits. They have for the most part cut their overheads, in inventory, personnel, and capital improvements. If there is no incentive to hire people then this large group of unemployed people will not purchase their services and/or goods and the market will turn down again. Jobs is really the critical issue for Democrats to emphasize.

[Skittles]

10. YOU CERTAINLY BETTER NOT HOLD ON LONG TERM

http://www.thestreet.com/markets/detox/10134346.html

[jackcgt]

37. Yeah, only when it goes down right?

Unfortunately, it has to work both ways.

[Strapping Buck]

73. I gotta admit...

that my critiques of capitalism are usually a little less venomous when my wife shows me some of the returns on a good stock she's had over the years.

[Sir_Shrek]

3. yup.

The only fund I have that didn't do anything was my bond fund....no gain, no loss.....same NAV I started the day with.

My IRA looks like it went up something around 5-6% today alone....

[silverlib]

4. I'm not happy!

...about the stock market or anything this adminstration does (mostly doesn't do).

I'd sacrifice my retirement to get rid of this administration and would be better off in the long run!

[salin]

16. more over - for many the 'increae' just equals re-gaining

from the past year or so... for those of invested in funds (not trading) - the annual growth between 2001 til now - isn't that great when spread over three years.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. How many American directly own stock?

What is it, 5% or something?

[ringmastery]

8. more like

50% of families.

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/01/23/business/business/02fc8ad932cf724586256cb6007bd12d.txt

[salin]

18. stock investments or mutual funds? I think the broader market

participation tends to be in mutual funds/iras.

[Sir_Shrek]

19. One in the same...

The stocks you purchase via a mutual fund are no different than the stock you would buy individually. A mutual fund just lets you purchase a big basket of stocks as opposed to a single share. Instant diversification.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. bah! completely misleading

You DO NOT own the shares in the fund, you own shares OF the fund - that is a BIG difference - because when the market goes up, sometimes the funds just take MORE FEES.

Rising stock prices do little for most Americans.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

21. direct stock? no way

If you're in mutual funds (like most people who have any stock ownership are) the market's up and down sometimes has little effect on your savings - in fact, call up your rep and ask them what you are paying in fees - they WILL NOT tell you (trust me, I tried).

My point is a rising stock market does NOT mean most Americans are doing better.

[Yupster]

25. Mutual fund fees

most stock funds (except Vanguard) have an annual expense ratio of about .8% to 1.1 %. International funds are typically more than that range. Bond funds less.

That's for an A share.

The B share charges an additional .8 % or so which would make the total about 1.8 %. That goes on for about 7-8 years at which point the ratio falls to the A share range.

The C share fund charges approx 2.0 % and never goes down.

An A share charges a sales charge which starts at 5.75 % and goes down as you have more money.

The B share charges no sales charge but charges a surrended charge, typically something like 5-4-3-3-2-1-0 depending on how many years it's been in.

The C share charges no sales or surrender charge but has that extra high internal cost.

The Y share is like an A share without charging the sales charge. Usually purchased for retirement plans where deals are negotiated for large amounts of money.

Hope that helps.

Of course, these are just examples. For your own funds, read the prospectuses. If your broker won't tell you the fees, get a new broker. Seriously.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

61. I have NO choice

My boss decides the 401k broker, not me. I can't save what $3,000 a year tax free in an IRA, or 20% every paycheck in the 401k my boss says too.

"get a new broker, seriously" - oh, I hadn't thought of that. When I asked them about the fees and they said "Oh, you don't need to worry about the fees, they are taken out automatically" what was I supposed to do, quit my job in protest? Pay a bunch more taxes?

I hope Eliot Spitzer puts all these crooks in jail, personally.

[Yupster]

66. Call the broker's company

and tell them you want a different representative to be your agent. If the agent didn't tell you the fee structure he is putting the company at great risk. He's not just breaking company rules, but the law. The company will assign you a new representative. If one is not local, you can get to one with an 800 number. Agents are licensed by state, so you can use anyone in the state. You can tell them the reason or not, but either way, get an honest agent. There are many out there who want you to understand what you're in before they let you go.

In short, don't work through your company to get answers, go to the investment company over your broker's head. He works for someone -- Edward Jones, AG Edwards, Merrill Lynch, SunAmerica -- he has to be licensed through some company and that's the company that he is putting at risk by not offering full disclosure.

I bet if you look at the paperwork you signed, there's a spot that says something like "My agent detailed the fees and costs and I understand them." If he really didn't go through that with you the company wants to know that.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

67. The investment company will not talk to me

individually. Everything must go through my company. They aren't interested in doing much. I could quit my job in protest, or simply not use the 401k and pay a lot more in taxes.

Thanks for letting me know they are breaking the law. I think I'll call the police.

[Mairead]

23. More to the point is how little stock is owned by anyone but the

hyperwealthy. The wealthiest 10% of people own 85% of all stocks (whether owned directly or via mutual funds, etc). Which means that the rest of us--90% of us--share out only 15% of all stock. And the vast majority of that 15% is owned by the next 10% down from the top.

IIRC, the wealthiest 15% or 16% own 99% of all stocks. Every single company in the US is owned by the same 15 or 16% of the population.

And there are working people who think that's a good idea? Lunacy.

[Skittles]

7. I am really hoping

people are not that stupid. I have a 401K and I AM NOT THAT STUPID.

[Cocoa]

51. anyone that stupid

or selfish, would not vote dem anyway.

[patdem]

11. Does bush* put his personal money into your portfolio?

If you are an Enron exec...own stock in energy stocks...coal, gas, oil, or are a major polluter stock...then you win.

If you are any part of the healing of the planet..and bush* is president...watch your stocks tank...because the federal government money is on the side of athsma creators!

Do you feel better now?

[BurtWorm]

12. How many of those who voted for Gore, Nader or no one in 2000

are going to vote for Bush this time because their portfolio gets a little fatter? Would you vote for Bush, even if we're in the middle of a bull market in November? Would you worry that a Dem would kill the market?

[AromaticSocks]

17. A Dem would never kill the market

Look at the genius of Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy etc and tell me that a Dem would ever hurt the market. The only people that don't like Dems are rich people that have to pay a bigger share of the taxes.

People say the rich will fold if they have to pay an 80% tax rate but I don't think they will. They want to eat too.

[Sir_Shrek]

20. hehehe....

...like George Soros.

Sorry, DEms have their share of bigwigs too.

[RandomKoolzip]

24. Well, actually...

As much as I love Carter for his humanitarian work and his efforts towards making peace, the economy tanked under his watch; inflation rose to dizzying heights in 1979-1980....Not to dis Carter, I love the guy, but managing the economy wasn't his strong suit.

[AromaticSocks]

13. Why not give all the profit to moveon.org?

A few more good anti-bush spots and this thing will be sewed up for 2004 and then we can really reap the profits of a booming economy and slap the taxes back on the rich and business owners where they belong.

[junker]

14. Why be happy. You lost money today no matter what the stock gains.

the dollar was down yet again. So what if stocks denominated in dollars went up? In real terms you lost money. Go to Www.urbansurvival.com. They put the DOW into EUros and found that all of the 'gains' of 2003 came down to 1.2 per cent up move on the dow in real money (euro is currently more real than dollar).


So crow all you want, but remember this, when the DOW reaches 12,000 that 12 thousand times nothing is still nothing.

buy other currencies or gold if you have money, not paper marked in devaluing dollars....

[arewethereyet]

34. that only matters if you're buying Euro goods

its a trade thing remember ?

[maggrwaggr]

62. you mean like oil and natural gas?

There's this thing called a World Economy. And our dollars are shrinking every day.

Hell, even those Wal Mart goods from China are gonna start costing more pretty soon

[RandomKoolzip]

15. Well, I'm still earning nine bucks an hour at my shitty job...

The minute some that good stuff starts trickling down to ME, I might cheer up...In fact, the SECOND I get a raise based on the success of the stock market, I'll PM everybody on this thread- I may have arthritis and alzheimer's my then, though, so I'll probably be pretty incoherent.

[JanMichael]

26. You're a smug little Dem today, aren't you?

Not only did you cream all over the other S&M (Stock Market) thread you had to start a whole big new one to stroke your ego, or something else. I'm sure your orgasmic reaction to one day on the market is an anomoly though. Normally I bet you're a real empathethic Liberal who understands that there's more to life than cash.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

36. He's Only 22

He's entitled to his idealism.

I made a killing in the stock market in the '90s, only to see those gains go down the toilet. Wait until reality catches up to you.

[rumguy]

47. Well said, very biting

I love it! What's the point of this thread? Wait, I think I know.

[DrBB]

27. How do you feel about your job security?

More to the point, how are a lot of other people feeling about it. Not so hot, if you're in IT or manufacturing. Things are pretty scary in fact, even for some of us who have 401Ks.

[DemoTex]

28. See what gold did?

Sell. Quick.

[PSR40004]

29. I must say me too :)

A 2.7% one day increase, the best news is I had just invested $20,000 two days before christmas.

[ComerPerro]

30. Fuck that

A lot of people thought they were doing fine with their Enron stock and their Worldcom stock. Sure, the CEOs made millions. But most stock holders got taken.

[David Zephyr]

31. Ringmastery, Go Brag At A Homeless Shelter.

Be sure to crow how you "made a killing" today.

[DemoTex]

32. Verb Sap investors! Listen to Uncle DemoTex.

Bad gut feeling. Unscientific, but it's the same feeling I had when I punched-out of the stock market three weeks before 9/11. Verb Sap!

[w4rma]

38. hmm

Al-Qaeda: We will destroy New York within 35 days
http://www.sundayherald.com/39093
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=984500

Debka: Al Qaeda Threatens to Nuke New York on February 2
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=757
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=983348

[DemoTex]

46. Hi Rick!

Long time no see!

73
Mac

[Solomon]

33. Don't you mean to say

that you made a Skilling? :evilgrin:

[sendero]

35. All I can say is....

... better solidify some gains by selling, because this market is a bubble pure and simple - there are no earnings to support these new prices and they won't last.

Seems like nobody learned anything from 2000. It is not an "investment" market, it is a "I'm betting there is a greater fool" market, and at some point there won't be.

[KoKo]

39. All I can say is "Read this Article!" This will explain alot! Not to

rain on "Ringmastery's Success" but it's the other side of "sucess." Enjoy it all for 2004.....but then the Piper has to be Paid.
Here:
Fed's Folly Will Come Due in 2004
By Peter Eavis
Senior Columnist
Led by the Federal Reserve, the world's central banks have spent five years pursuing some of the most reckless monetary policies ever seen in the developed world. Next year, though, their barmy bets will finally start to come undone. The crackup won't start happening until the end of 2004 -- after George Bush, the market's favorite for president, has been safely re-elected -- but the coming deluge will usher in a period of global economic malaise and dire losses in financial markets. The fast-declining dollar we see today is an early indicator of the reckoning that Fed Chairman Greenspan has long tried to forestall, using unsustainable measures. America will be the epicenter of the bust, because it is here that debt totals, as well as trade and fiscal deficits, have risen to historically delinquent levels.

MORE.......and a very good read.......http://www.thestreet.com/pf/markets/detox/10134346.html

[Nobody]

40. A killing? Who died?

But seriously, is your 401 K back up to where it was before the Bush economy and the Enron/Arthur Anderson/et al corporate bleeding occurred?

I wish I could share your glee, but I lost my job and am struggling by on temp work. The gains in the stock market has yet to translate into full-time jobs with benefits and living wages.

One swallow does not make a summer and one good day in the stock market does not spell economic recovery.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

41. I Know More People Who Will NEVER Regain the Money They Lost

in the market than made a killing today.

Yeah, and there are just so many jobs, I don't know which minimum wage cashier position I should apply for with a Master's. Shit, a lot of stores didn't even hire Christmas help this year...

[KoKo]

43. Exactly "Rational" one wonders who the "hype" is for. The investor

with the 401k who bought October last year and started with just what they had, not those who had their whole retirements invested and lost most of it that's only 1/3 the way back? And, that also means the "way back" has to be sustained over three more years just to get back to where it was in 1999 before Bubble Burst?

It's incredible the spin. Although, I applaud "Ringmasteries" happiness. That's ok for him/her....if that's a "run up" in the last year starting with NEW money. Good for them!

[Liberal_Andy]

45. as a matter of fact, as of last week, my 401K is back where it was in 2000

finally!

3 years of gains lost, the way I see it. OK, I was spoiled, I admit it. All 8 years of the big dog I had 100% in international funds. From 96-99 it tripled.

In 2001, after watching it decline, I reallocated about 50% into other stocks, and some 20% into safer MM and Bonds. Kept 30% internationally. Only lost about 25% before it started to come back. Some at work had 50%+ losses.

I will be looking real hard at another reallocation in late 04.

[Ilsa]

42. I'm suspicious of accounting these days.

A friend who was laid off from a major financial instituion told me he used to do variance analysis and correct earnings, etc., sometimes changing numbers as much as a billion dollars due to errors. Said that now that his job is gone, the people running the acctg dept are hoping the law of means and averages will take care of such pesky things as unexplained variances. In other words, GIGO.

I wonder how many other Fortune 500 cos. are doing the same?

[YNGW]

44. Good For You!

I'm up in 2003 myself. I invest long term and have enjoyed a modest 11%-12% return over the past 30 years. My stocks took a hit after 9/11, but have recovered. But investments are an obsession with me, so I study the companies with a fervor before I choose.

[creativelcro]

49. It was about time.

I lost several Ks in 2000-2001. Now, even after making over 200% on a few stocks I'm still not even... But I'm not holding my breath and for sure I don't attribute these gains to Bush (I don't attribute the stock market problems to Bush either though). It is POSSIBLE that a bunch of conservatives are playing the market so that it will look good until Nov 2004. Then CRASH again. If enough people "pretend" things are OK, stocks will go up. No question about it.

[Cocoa]

50. anybody that thinks that way about politics

would not vote for a dem in a million years.

For one thing, someone that makes a conclusion about Bush's economic policy based on one day's results in the market is too dumb to vote dem.

Then there's the question of the self-centeredness. I think Gep has the message that best expresses what I think the dem party is about, he says we're all connected. Therefore, your profits today wouldn't mean very much due to all the people out of work.

[randr]

52. If its all about the economy

I'm still with our guys!
How can Bush possibly dare compare his recovery with the Clinton years?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

53. Just remember: It will take EIGHT Quarters in a Row of 20% or more

growth to match the economy that Clinton handed to Bush in Jan. 2001.

[arewethereyet]

57. sounds real nice

got some figures to back that up ?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

58. It's from a Paul Krugman column in December

If you want to pay the New York Times and check the archives, be my guest. I take it you don't read Paul Krugman anyway, judging by your comments.

[jpak]

54. My IRA portfolio has yet to recover to 2000 levels

and I did not invest in the TechCom bubble.

Hundreds of millions of my fellow Americans (both Democrat and Republican) are looking at their IRA's - right now - and thinking the same thing....

"Am I better off now than I wuz 4 years ago?????"

(clue: the answer is NO - but shhhhhhh, we won't tell the neighbors - *wink*wink*)

[Yupster]

59. DOW high was 11,400

in January of 2000. It went down for 2000, 2001, and 2002. It's around 10,500 today, so it's no surprise that you are not back to January 2000 levels.

[leftofthedial]

55. judging by the predatory practices of most American corporations

you may be literally correct.

[stevedeshazer]

56. Killing...

Interesting way to put it, no?

[Forkboy]

60. Great...someone pass the Raman Noodles

:eyes:

[Buns_of_Fire]

63. Portfolio? Oh, yeah, I had one of those once.

Had to divest everything, after I lost my job, to keep a roof over my head and food on my family (sic). Congratulations, though. May your hubris serve you well.

[Loonman]

64. Nothing wrong with making money

Although communists would tell you differently.

[creativelcro]

68. Well, you go to jail by making money illegally

So, there can be something wrong with making money. And it's rather clear that when a lot of money is made, frequently some laws are broken. Cases of "making money" based on good ideas are not that frequent.

[Forkboy]

80. Making it's cool

flaunting it isn't.

Though capitilists would tell you differently.

[otohara]

65. Alot of American's Already Lost Stock Monies

thanks to his greedy ass friends - like us - no money left to invest, it's gone

[Kathy in Cambridge]

72. Most people's 401Ks are at rockbottom

so a one-day stock market gain won't bring their investments to the level they were at in 2,000. Our 401Ks are still worth about 1/10th of what they were a few years back.

[PVnRT]

69. Those profits

are created at the expense of workers - shrinking wages, health benefits, safety rules, et cetera. That is how stock prices have gone up. In effect, the stock market rewards companies based on how bad they treat workers - how high was Enron running when the scandal first broke?

[silverlib]

70. Well said...

What little money I have doesn't keep me awake at night. I'm sure my state retirement (only 11 years worth) is funding some really wonderful atrocities, but I have no control over that part.

I'm in the beans and rice stage, but what better time to be a vegetarian!

If I was coming out ahead in this market climate, I'd have to sit back and wonder "at whose expense."

[YNGW]

71. How interesting.

There's a lot of workers out there who appreciate that their fellow Americans think enough of the quality of work that they do that they're willing to invest their hard-earned money in their company. Now I see those who say that their fellow working-class Americans are helping perpetuate the suffering of other working-class Americans.

Too late. I know the truth.

[Strapping Buck]

74. I gotta admit...

My critiques of capititalism are always a little less venomous when some stock my wife has owned does really well. Oh well, no one's perfect.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

75. Yup, that's the way Americans are conditioned

luckily you're one of the 40% of Americans who own stock. For some people who have long term investments, a small gain like yesterday won't come near to equaling their losses in the past three years. I feel bad for those that have already retired, only to see their nest egg diminished due to corporate scandals like Enron and Worldcom.

But it's all about you and your success anyway. The heck with the majority of Americans.

[creativelcro]

78. The more you have and the more conservative you tend to become

... because the status quo allows you to keep the goods you have...
if you got nothing you want to change that. if you got something you don't want to change that...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

79. Not necessarily

Prior to the economic downturn, my husband and I were doing pretty well. We also have friends that would qualify as wealthy. They are all with one exception Democrats. That exception is an Independent.

[bobbyboucher]

76. Killing? Yeah, right.

Not unless you got millions in the market, J. Paul.

[fob]

77. You should thank Bill Clinton then. If it wasn't for his laser-like

focus on the economy of the 90's and the launching of the DJIA to almost 12,000, think where it would be now under bush*s screwyoo economics!

bush*s domestic policy and 911 would have killed the stock market and launched a massive long term depression had Clinton not righted and solidified our Country beforehand.


fob