Are Canadians the new Americans?

[Karmadillo]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040103/DOUG03/Columnists/Idx

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It may be called the American dream, but it is far more likely to happen in Canada. We owe this observation to Miles Corak of Statistics Canada, who analyzed more than 400,000 tax files in the first really major and credible study of "intergenerational mobility."

A kid born to a poor family in Canada (that is, a family with an income below $28,000) has only a 25-per-cent chance of earning the equivalent amount of money in adulthood. There's about the same likelihood that he will earn up to $46,000, a 20-per-cent chance he will earn up to $65,000, another 1-in-5 chance he'll make up to $95,000, and a 13-per-cent chance, better than 1 in 10, that he will pull a six-figure salary.

In other words, as my colleague Margaret Philp noted in a close look at Mr. Corak's work, if you're born in the bottom fifth of the income ladder, the odds are 3 out of 4 that you will do better than your parents. If you're born at the bottom 10 per cent, you have less than a 1-in-6 chance of staying there. And if you're born into the bottom half of the great divide, there's a 40-per-cent chance you'll wind up in the top half. We do get to see how the other half lives.

And how do our southern neighbours compare? Not so well at all. Mr. Corak compares different countries in a number of ways. In terms of interclass mobility, Canada ranks near the top, along with the northern European nations, no matter how you measure it. The United States and Great Britain rank fairly low. Mr. Corak concludes that the odds that a poor Canadian will make it into a higher snack bracket are two to three times better than for an American.

more...

[SlavesandBulldozers]

1. snack bracket?

what's that? I thought the U.S was number one when it came to snack consumption?

[Mikimouse]

2. The 'new Americans'? Gads, what an insult to ...

Canadians. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in the world aspires to be American. I would reword the article to read more like this: Canadians-providing an international example.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

3. I was in Montreal a few months back and

took a cab from the Old Port over to the part where the Olympics was held in 1972. There are beautiful gardens and you can ride up on the Funicular to see the whole city.

The cab driver commented on the neighborhoods we went through, which we were not the best ones. He said he was happy he emigrated to Canada and not the U.S., because he said the cities are safer and you do not have the big ghettoes that we have in the U.S. He pointed out that the neighborhoods we were going through were poor, but safe and with decent housing.

When we rode up the Funicular, we could see the whole city below, very beautiful and you could see the different neighborhoods and see what he meant.

[waylon]

4. I unfortunately lived in Alberta for 4 years...

What this study fails to control for is population statistics. Immigration being the #1 factor. Its hard to factor that in to be sure but immigrants and the children born to them make up the fastest growing segment of the US population. Canda by comparison has about one fifth the number of immigrants. I cant say for sure but I would bet canada also loses more permanent citizens than the US, by a large margin.

I dont care for this type of trumped up study that lashes out at the US. I think it stems more from jealousy or inferiority than real sentiment. People come to the US for a reason. Probably the same reason I left Canada!

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Think again: according to the CIA

Canada's net migration rate is nearly twice that of the USA:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/peo_net_mig_rat&int=-1

Canada 6.07 per 1000 population
United States 3.5 per 1000 population

This list shows that Canada is the most popular of the large developed countries for immigrants - and who'd blame them?

[LeahMira]

6. Not necessarily...

Canada 6.07 per 1000 population
United States 3.5 per 1000 population

That's also deceptive because the population of Canada is about the same as the population of one of our larger states. At the same time, large areas of Canada are pretty cold and frozen, so a smaller population is to be expected.

But the U.S. will be more attractive to everyone once we get rid of the Texas trash in the White House.

[daleo]

13. That was a valid comparison

The whole point of comparing rates (e.g. migration rates) is to adjust and correct for effects that are size dependent. Since both of these numbers are expressed as immigrants per 1000 population they are comparable, and state that Canada has about 1.75 times as many immigrants as the U.S., after adjusting for the size of the countries.

Recently there were some reports that Philadelphia was as dangerous as Iraq, since the number of murders in Philadelphia was about the same as the number of U.S. military deaths in Iraq. However, when expressed as death rates of the relevant populations, soldiers in Iraq are exposed to over ten times the risk of combat death as citizens of Philadelphia are to the risk of murder.

[Don Claybrook]

7. And what is the reason you left Canada?

I'd be interested to hear.

[IrateCitizen]

8. Higher social spending = greater social mobility

That's not some kind of socialist mantra -- it's a fact based on historical trends in the US.

The times of greatest social mobility within the US -- especially for lower/working class people climbing into middle class -- was the period between the New Deal and the mid-1970's. This was also the time of the greatest amount of social spending and relief programs by the US government.

When those spending levels began to recede with the "stagflation" of the 1970's and the subsequent Reaganite devotion to "free-market" economics in the 1980's (resulting in tremendous cuts in social spending), class mobility started to wane as well.

One indicator of a healthy society is how it treats the "least" among it, according to Adam Smith. Apparently the Canadians just do a much better job at this than we do in the US. And they're better off as a whole society for the effort -- with a fairer economy, cleaner cities, lower crime, impressive public spaces, and so on.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

9. Yeah, and Black is the new White.

Is there such a thing as 'Americans' or 'Canadians', anyway? Polls show that certain citizens of a country do one thing, and other citizens do something else. I'm always a little wary of these sort of generalizations.
One way in which Canadians have become Americans is in relation to Free Trade and NAFTA. Once Free Trade was anathema to us, now we accept it. For the US, however, people are talking about the serious downside to NAFTA.

[evil_orange_cat]

10. Canada = Land of the Free, tolerance and opprotunity...

America advertises itself as such... but is really the land of hypocrisy.

[tom_paine]

11. Imperial Amerika will not suffer a Free Nation as neighbor

Particularly as it continues transitioning from Free World to Third World.

Germany and Russia couldn't tolerate a Free Poland in the 1780s, with a brand new "American-style" constitution. Eventually, they just crushed and dismembered Poland in response.

Now, things have to be apporached much more delicately that in the 1790s. The niceties have to be observed. But, as Imperial Amerika grows more oppressive, eyes will turn hopefully to the Free Neighbor to the North.

Well, neither Emperor Jeb, Ahnold, or George P. Caligula will appreciate that.

Something is going to have to be done. The details are fuzzy but nations like Imperial Amerika will not tolerate being made to look bad by upstart Canada.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Our anschluss: a North American "security perimeter."

And our quisling continentalists, such as Tom D'Aquino, can't wait.

Dismantle the border, CEOs say
Make it an 'internal checkpoint,' council argues in citing security and trade concerns

National Post 01/14/03: Robert Fife

OTTAWA - The Canadian Council of Chief Executives wants to dramatically remake Canada-U.S. relations, calling for the creation of a jointly managed North American perimeter with a common approach to borders, trade, immigration, security and defence.

"What we are really talking about is totally reinventing the border. The border should no longer be seen as a demarcation line between Canada and the United States. It should simply be an internal checkpoint," said Tom D'Aquino, president of the CCE, which represents Canada's 150 largest corporations.

"The whole focus on our strategy is homeland security and economic security. The two things are really inseparable."
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_011403_worldgov.html