How should DU respond to its new notoriety?

[Junkdrawer]

I believe it would be fair to say that the mainstream press has always treated Bush as a moderate Republican. Largely for this reason, the majority of the current Democratic leadership has refrained from rhetoric that would challenge this perception - "business as usual".

I also believe it would be fair to say that, in the past, the average DUer believed that Bush represents a new type of danger - a challenge to World Peace and Democracy itself. Thus, as time went on, the difference between these perceptions tended to move DU far from the mainstream.

This difference is now being exploited by the RW to portray DU as an embarrassment to the Democratic Party. So I ask: How should DU respond?

[Turbineguy]

1. Isn't Bush an embarrassment to the GOP?

I mean he's not a moderate.

[KoKo]

2. Do you have a link to RW saying DU an embarrassment? Who cares

what they think, anyway? Unless Admins view themselves as an embarrassment why should this matter? The Repug party is an embarassment to the Nation, so it's "pot calling kettle..."

[aquart]

8. They're committing treason and they're mad because we noticed.

Of course they're going to say mean things.

The mean things we say are called facts.

[Kira]

3. what are you refering to?

[Junkdrawer]

10. In recent weeks, there have been many references to DU starting...

with Limbaugh and now the Wall Street Journal. There have been increasing calls that this new notoriety should mean that "controversial" threads should be moved to their own forum.

[worldgonekrazy]

23. I don't want to be part of a mainstream forum

This tendency for Democrats to overly moderate themselves has GOT to stop. Every time Bush does something worse we have to move further to the right to accomodate that, and I for one will not do it.

[DBoon]

4. My responses

1. We are correct in our assessment of Bush - and can cite voluminous evidence to support our view and have presented logical well articulated arguments explaining this view and its solid grounding in facts.

2. We are proud to present positions that differ with the "mainstream" of the Democratic Party. It is our right to do so.

3. RW positions ignore our evidence shown in point 1, and are a threat to the right to dissent in point 2.

They choose to ignore reality, and to crush dissenting opinions. We differ with both of these positions.

[papau]

5. Ignore the RW spin - as we always have - any "response" would be

spun via partial truth and lies as needed to prove that those in the media saying DU is an embarrassment to the Democratic Party are correct.

Once a media whore - always a media whore?

We will see if there is ethics in journalism in 2004, won't we!

:-)

[auntpattywatty]

6. Why do you think we have new notority - was it in the newspaper or somethi

[BOSSHOG]

7. Let me count the ways

Vote for the Democrat of your Choice.

Be proud the RW has labeled you an embarrassment. It shows their fear of you.

Invite others to compare DU and freeperville. Let the free market of ideas choose a winner.

Bask in your accuracy. Bush IS a threat to world peace and our Constitution and he is not a man of integrity. Those who disagree are extremely ignorant of the world around them. Point to their ignorance at every opportunity. Oh this is too easy.

Let the Dem candidate know you are a DUer and should be catered to.

Look repukes in the eye, poke them in the chest, kick them in the ass.

Proudly proclaim that if DU is not the mainstream, then our country is headed in the wrong direction.

Let the world know that DUers man the frontline against the right wing assault on our constitution.

Get Offensive and get ready to rock Proud Liberals. I'm a 50 year old vet ready to take my country back. NOW! Would you like to help?

[NoPasaran]

9. An embarrassment to the Democratic Party?

Uh Oh. We can't have that, can we?

How dare we offend the grownups and the wingers and the rest of that crew?

I wonder if I can still fit into my old pink tutu?

[arcane1]

11. if the RW is bothering to attack DU...

then were are doing something right, and should keep on doing it!

:evilgrin:

[tom_paine]

12. As long as the Imperial Press remians a Bushevik Footstool

they can say whatever they want, denying any countervailing point the megaphone esxpsure to refute lies.

It's what Putin is doing, far more swiftly than the Emperor* to the Russians right now (I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he started reading from the Bush Playbook and putting it into practice in the Soviet Union two years after the Bloodless Coup of 2000).

Without a Free Press, as the Founding Fathers foresaw, the Republic is doomed.

[w4rma]

13. We should respond with honesty or not at all. Just tell the truth.

Don't worry so much about image, except in terms of politness, honor and honesty, IMHO.

[Stephanie]

14. This is a huge opportunity to educate the willfully ignorant

It's time to re-post everything we've learned these past two or three years. Let's have massive threads again on BFEE, PNAC, LIHOP, BBV, FL 2000 - all the evidence we've dug up and digested and take as common knowledge amongst ourselves needs to be reposted to educate our new visitors. If they are going to pay attention to us then let's give them an education that will make their hair stand on end. Let our new visitors try to sleep at night after they learn what we know. Lord knows we've all had enough sleepless nights. Welcome to DU, everyone! Sit back and learn!

[G_j]

54. yes

it's whats called a teachable moment.
I completely agree with you.

[Selwynn]

15. We should respond with truth, honestly, fairness, and non-sensationalism

We should also respond with rationality, sophistication and dignity rather than with venom, indignace, or frothing at the mouth rants of hatred toward those who disagree with us.

We should commit ourselves to being a beacon of thoughtful discourse in a sea of fringe and fanatical diatribe sites (on BOTH sides). We should elevate the level of public debate and statesmanship in this country to new heights, and let that be our legacy.

Will that happen?

Of course not... but I'll hang with y'all anyway. :D

[Junkdrawer]

21. I tend to agree that working the problem incrementally...

from the mainstream perception is the best tactic.

For example: The possibility that a "run-of-the-mill" hijacking may have been "permitted" on 9-11 is rarely discussed while we either swing between incompetence to "They Planned It".

[Sterling]

58. I think all those views are expressed

It just really does look like it could have been an inside job, sorry.

Maybe it was just inept leadership on a level never seen in history but if ther was not some reason to think it was a crime by the Bush administration and or their supporters people would have stopped pointing it out long ago.

[Indiana Democrat]

25. Selwynn...You are outstanding!!

This is the second time today that I've found one of your posts that describes my feelings almost exactly.

If you participate in any other Democratic Party message boards that share your ideals, I would like to hear about them, if you're so inclined.

[Selwynn]

51. I don't participate in other forums, but only because....

I don't know of any other forums that I would really enjoy. I am ALWAYS open to something new, so if you have suggestions, let me know. :)

[Walt Starr]

16. By thumbing our collective noses at the voyeuristic Rightwingers

who are coming here at the behest of their Rightwingnut masters.

:thumbsdown:

[Ficus]

17. I like DU the way it is

and the reason I go here, is to find out other viewpoints that the mainstream press doesn't get to. I've found myself much more informed since being here. Of course there are going to be tinfoil hatters - god knows the Free Republic has enough of them.

[AndyTiedye]

29. Being Bashed by the WSJ is Good Advertising For DU

People don't buy the WSJ for its editorial policies,
and many of its subscribers don't agree with them.

This will get some wealthy Dems and disillusioned Repubs coming over here,
which is a very good thing.

[Vogon_Glory]

75. WSJ Editorial Page--How Much Credibility

I suspect that the question that many WSJ staffers outside the right-wing controlled WSJ editorial offices are asking is how much is the WSJ's own credibility suffering by the WSJ's editorial staff using its editorial pages as a conduit for right-wing propaganda?

If I were running a multi-million dollar corporation, I'd be very concerned that the right-wing WSJ staff might be suppressing financial and economic news that I need to keep my corporation solvent in order to further the aims of the so-called "Conservative" movement.

[truthspeaker]

18. embarrassment to the Democratic Party?

I'm more embarrassed at all the elections the Democratic Party has been losing since 1994.

[Minstrel Boy]

19. It's an attempt to stifle dissent by inducing self-censorship

A tactic that has worked very well on mainstream "watchdogs."

The system isn't so crude that the White House must tell correspondents which questions will be permitted. Years of conditioning have taught the media which lines of inquiry belong to acceptable discourse.

[jobycom]

20. We ARE the response

We don't have to respond to what they are saying about us, because our existence is our response. If they criticize us, it gives us more exposure, and more people will see what we say, and that alone will be all the response we need. And it will be all the truth the right wing can handle.

Rush is trying to stop up the hole in the bottom of his audience reservoir, and he's using us as a distraction to hide his perp dance. To use his own quotes, if he has nothing to hide, why is he blocking examination of his medical records? Why is he hiring attorneys? Why is he exploiting legal loopholes? He is guilty, guilty, guilty, and he is hiding more than we have heard yet. STDs? Alcoholism? Medical examinations proving his homosexuality (which wouldn't be bad, just bad for him)? Even his dittoheads are cringing when he moralizes about others, now. His message is drowned by his hypocrisy. So he's doing like Bush-- when his numbers sag, he creates an external enemy to rally his listeners against, so they will ignore the man behind the curtain.

He's toast, he knows it.

We should thank him for increasing the exposure of our views, for sending more people here, where they can hear what they aren't hearing out there.

That's our response. Do what we do.

[Indiana Democrat]

22. Simple...

Let the "Democratic" part of DemocraticUndergound.com be highlighted. Rather than the Far Left/Green/Conspiracy part that seems to overwhelm everything.

[Minstrel Boy]

28. your assertion that "the Far Left/Green/Conspiracy part ...

seems to overwhelm everything" sounds to me like the right's aggrieved howls about the pernicious influence of America's Great, Invisible Left Wing Media.

What I see "overwhelming everything" here these days is the shouting down with little more than ridicule of those who dare to challenge conventional wisdom and the official naratives.

[Indiana Democrat]

38. Your assertion that my thoughts sound like "The Right"...

...leads me to believe you're one of those I pointed-out.

If that is true, I would say that I'm sorry for offending you, but I'm not.

[Bridget Burke]

30. We need to act more like Republicans?

Not "Far Left"--coddle the corporations.

Not "Green"--exploit that environment (or let the corporations do it).

No "Conspiracy"--believe what we are told, don't ask questions.

If we're too "different" from the Republicans, we will be criticized! Beware.

[Indiana Democrat]

36. No. Act like Democrats...

...JFK Democrats...FDR Democrats. Even Clinton Democrats.

The Far Left, the Greens, and the Conspiracy Peddlers have never, and will never, win anything...Let alone advance any progressive agendas.

[Minstrel Boy]

42. But we're talking about DU here, not the Democratic Party.

DU doesn't "win" anything. That's the business of the Democratic Party. What DU is about is leftists and liberals talking to each other.

This is, supposedly, the underground. Or isn't it? If not, then can someone please tell me where it's gone?

[Indiana Democrat]

47. Then change the name...

...because quite honestly, I think a lot of the "Leftists" here are an embarrassment to *my* Democratic Party.

And I damned sure know most of the Greens are not freinds of the Democratic Party.

[salin]

53. Hi Indiana Democrat

I am the same as you (an Indiana Democrat) - and find that many of the ideas and issues of the "leftists" - were very mainstream democratic issues back in the 1980s when I worked around capitol hill in Washington D.C. Society moved rightward through the Reagan years - and while Clinton staved off some of the onslaught the republicans found multiple voices on the airwaves to keep up the Reagan mantra - and lurched further right with Bush. Thing is - many economic ideas considered mainstream today were considered laughable and unworkable in the 1980s by most democrats AND many republicans. And guess what - we are in a period of round two demonstrating that they don't work. Huge tax cuts and massive resulting deficits... do not bring economic stimulation! Surprise! But now folks raising this issue - even when done on a fiscal responsibility angle - are considered ... leftists? Wow. When did that happen?

You could have knocked me over with a feather when Sen. Bayh voted for (and I believe he did) the latest tax cut. He was always a deficit hawk. But now he's not. And raising this is.... leftist? :shrug: Times change - and how we label ideas has changed with the shift in public sentiment. But I continue to find it ironic when mainstream democratic ideas from MY adult lifetime (and I am NOT that old) are now considered to the left. From one Indiana democrat to another... Go figure? :shrug:

[Sterling]

59. You ever think it is you who might be out of touch?

Probably not but I think it might be a good idea to seriously consider the possibility.

That is what the DUers you are so afraid of have been doing for a few years and how they have reached some of the more prevailing opinions you will find here. It’s easy to be offended and in the dark. It is much harder to address unsettling ideas head on and objectively.

[prolesunited]

64. Feel free to start YOUR OWN

message board and you can squash any "embarrassing" statements and ideas you find. :hi:

[RapidCreek]

70. JFK and FDR called a spade a spade

They were not pink tutu wearing mealy mouthed little pimps living in fear of what others might say or think. You see...it is that quality that made them LEADERS.

Far Left? What pray tell is the "Far Left"? Please elaborate. Conspiracy Peddlers? What conspiracies are you speaking of and who are the people you claim are peddling them?

Plenty of folks consider your hero FDR "far left". Think I'm kidding"? Type "FDR was a socialist", "Roosevelt was a socialist" with the quotes into Google. Next try replacing the word socialist with communist. Enjoy the reading.

RC

[WoodrowFan]

72. I suspect he meant

I suspect IG meant the more fringy posts here. Examples: The pentagon caused the Earthquake in Iran, the posts cheering Iraqis killing American troops (only a couple vocal posters), the guy who praised North Korea to the hilt as a perfect free society, or the guy who thinks Stalin was a great guy. I don't think (correct me if Im wrong IG) he was referring to the Kucinich supporters or those who talk about socialism in Europe.

[Booberdawg]

24. Who cares what they think. And it's free publicity

[salinen]

27. We haven't changed

but they are all moving rightward and the perception is that we are radicalized. I guess peace and freedom and honesty are radical ideals.

[Booberdawg]

31. Agreed. We are not the ones moving or changing or radical

They are. I don't agree with the original posters premise that we have to respond to RW spin about DU. We don't. Fuck 'em.

on edit: to clarify - Fuck 'em = Fuck them - the RW spinners

[Junkdrawer]

32. I didn't say we have to respond...

but is seems to me that the moderators may well be responding - without a discussion.

[Booberdawg]

33. What are you talking about?

"the moderators may well be responding?" I meant fuck the RW spinners, not you.

[Junkdrawer]

34. This..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=120&topic_id=9787&mesg_id=9787

[Booberdawg]

37. You lost me

I didn't take the original post to have anything to do with that.

I simply don't care what the RW thinks about DU or how they portray us and I don't think we, as DUers, have to respond to them.

I have no comment on what forum the 911 topic gets discussed in.

[Cocoa]

26. we should beat our chests

every morning, shout "Damn, I'm a DUer!"

Apologies to Jay Garner. :-)

[gristy]

35. I don't care what "they" think

I really don't!

[Skittles]

39. I don't give a flying F*** what the rightwing goose-stepping liars think

THEY are selling this country down the river, NOT ME.

[tnlefty]

40. Where is my DU t-shirt? Look..nice and clean...fits well

I'm with you BOSSHOG!

[G_j]

41. put the meat & potatoes on the table

let us just keep telling the truth and backing it up with solid information.
We provide insight and links to a wealth of sources and any intelligent person can research for themselves and make up their own minds.

A hearty welcome to all truth seekers!

:toast:

[HEyHEY]

43. Simple - the DU wet t-shirt contest and shrimp bake!

YEEHA!

[liberalhistorian]

44. All we have to do to counter that

nonsense and bullshit is to point to two simple words: FREE REPUBLIC! Do we advocate racism, bigotry, homophobia, violence against dissenters and other "non-patriots and America haters", wax nostalgic about the glory days of slavery, defend the confederacy, plan the deliberate harassment and/or sabotage of rallies and marches, advocate mass round-ups of muslims and blacks just because they're muslim and black, worship Ann Coulter, etc., etc., etc., etc.? Free Republic makes DU look like Romper Room hosted by Mickey Mouse.

[sweetheart]

45. just keep on writin'

That means we're winning. The reality of real people speaking their own truth is 1000 times more powerful than the entire BFEE propaganda organization put together. Anyone who claims to pick bones with DU, must be reading DU... and that falls in to the old maxim... "All press is good press."

They hate free speech.... and every attempt to attack the free real voices of america will rebound upon them 10,000 fold. This place is protected by enlightened protector dieties. To attack DU is the same as attacking jesus christ's living body... its not skinner or any person... rather the spirit of freedom and justice... to attack DU is a mistake beyond measure... bring 'em on. They can't hack open discussion.

The criminal government and its criminal denizens cannot hope to oppose real justice... they can fake it in their corporate court system and their fake laws and sham elections... but not in the real court of human perception. DU is a jungian icon of justice... were i to know the tarot better, the card of justice. To oppose it is to embody injustice.

[info being]

46. We respond by continuing to do what we do every day

Post the truth as we see it. It is their responsibility to deal with us...not the other way around.

[loudnclear]

48. By making DU points even stronger and well substantiated.

Bush is an embarrassment to the nation. Let's educate the ones who come here. Even if they don't admit it, they will spend some sleepless nights confronting the truths before them.

[Mike Niendorff]

49. As Stephanie said : Post the facts. In detail.

We need to simply and consciously refocus ourselves on the kind of solid information-sharing that put DU on the map in the first place. Claims should -- as a matter of course -- always be presented with backing citation from reliable sources. Furthermore, we should not be shy about distancing ourselves from claims that don't meet this basic standard (and I, for one, have no problem with the mods relocating (or outright tossing) some of the more outlandish threads in this domain -- "no Pentagon plane", "Bush caused Iran earthquake", that sort of ridiculous nonsense).

To put things in a nutshell: I think we need to redouble our efforts to hold ourselves to high evidentiary standards, but, at the same time, we must not shrink from following that evidence where it leads.

That being done, let our readers and visitors decide for themselves what to make of it. All we can do it put the facts out there and back our claims up as fully as possible. From there, let the chips fall where they may.


MDN

[Junkdrawer]

52. That's the DU I knew and loved...

it seems a little harder to find lately as the disrupters have gotten much more sophisticated.

[Mike Niendorff]

55. likewise.

However, in all fairness, I think the admins bear at least some of the blame here, too. After all, it's substantially more difficult to keep that level of discourse going when everyone's accumulated bookmarks -- bookmarks to two years' worth of links, reference material and backing citation -- have all been left indefinitely inaccessible by the latest forum-upgrade.


MDN

[bpilgrim]

69. peer review is a proven model

and it has gotton us this far ;->

i just wish we had better filter to help the cream rise to the surface.

the SIGNAL-to-NOISE ratio has increasingly becoming a problem... at least for me, takes too looong to sift through all the threads and posts that pass through here especially on some of the HOT 'tinfoil' threads.

there are plenty of excellent well documented post on du but they are harder to find with all the chatter and all... ;->

peace

[DrBB]

50. Hm. A few quotes from Free Republic, given equal exposure

...by Dem candidates ought to do the trick. I'm sure the GOP would find their nonsense as embarrassing as any extremist quotations lifted from DU.

[davidinalameda]

56. have a big party!

even bad press is good press

don't worry when they talk about you--worry when they don't

[Nikia]

57. I didn't think that DU was an official Democratic Party website

I think there is a general self acknowledgement that the average DUer is more leftist than the Democratic Party leadership or the average Democratic national candidate. We are underground because we are not afraid to discuss contraversial issues and ideas that the official party may publically shy away from. I am glad that we are getting publicity. I hope people will read this forum for themselves rather than take the word of right wing gneralizations.

[rman]

60. well said. n/t

-

[mitchum]

61. They can blow me

I don't really care what the RW and their lickspittle press think

[Aidoneus]

62. by living up to it's hype

DU's reputation as some radical hotbed is undeserved, though I would like very much if it were to live up to such a label.

[fabius]

63. I don't see how telling the truth is an embarrassment.

It should be embarrassing for those who don't see the emperor's lack of clothes.

As far as overall points, just try to back up what you say as much as possible.

[T Bone]

65. We should just tell it like it is. On 911 Bush was either

incompetent or complicit. One or the other. Because the WTC was still standing tall when President Bill Clinton left office. And it stood there for 9 months until the Bush Administration lost it due to incompetence or complicity.

How did Bush ACT on 911?

He failed to put down a children's book and take charge, even after the second tower was struck, and he was told "America is under attck".
He absconded to Air Force 1 and spent most of the remainder of the day puddle-jumping to Nebraska before returning to DC.

To call him a hero by any sense of the word fails the laugh test and is shameless. The Neo-conservatives in the Republican Party are shameless.

[opihimoimoi]

66. They got nothing alse so they ridicle and throw stones.

If ya ain;t got squat, bluff.

[bvar22]

67. No RESPONSE is necessary.

They are RESPONDING to us. We just keep doing what we do best.

They fact that the Right Wing propaganda biggies are attacking us is the best indicator of out successes. The biggest threat we represent is the elimination of the NeoCon memory hole. They will have a difficult time peddling their historical revisions when the compiled, referenced lists of their lies have been saved to millions of hard drives.

[bpilgrim]

68. shrinking violets

we won't be ;->

peace

[Rhiannon12866]

71. What a beautiful post, bpilgrim!

And I happen to agree with you.:-)

[NashVegas]

73. By Not Taking Itself Very Seriously

Unlike controlled media outlets, DU has no rules on who can post here, other than banning the obvious abusers.

[Vogon_Glory]

74. A Good Response: Keep On Keeping On

How should DU and DU posters react to its newfound "notoriety"? By keeping on keeping on, that's how.

I don't see that the overwhelming majority of DU posters have anything to be ashamed of. We are speaking our minds, we're mostly civil to each other, and what's more, we're sharing information, ideas, and encouragement without the constant grinding harassment of right-wing flamers attempting to shut down any hint of opposition to the Bush regime and their tinhorn tinfoil right-wing Republican allies in Congress and in all too many statehouses across the country.

I imagine that the very concept of a place where progressives can meet, discuss, and organize is very disturbing to our opponents. Too many on the right are less interested in the fundamentals of participatory democracy than they are in seizing control of the government and silencing any opposition by any legal or extra-legal means they find at hand. Whatever pretensions the Republican Party and its so-called "conservative" allies might once upn a time have had towards respecting representative government or open discourse have crumbled in the face of their actions of the last decade and a half.


I expect that others find the idea of a forum independent of corporate or right-wing political control is also disturbing to other elements opposed to us. I don't imagine that the GOP or the self-styled "conservative" movement likes the idea of an opposition one bit. The lackies, toadies, and of the corporate press dislike the knowledge that there is a growing body of opinion that not only doesn't listen to them, but holds them in contempt for their failure to investigate and report the news instead of parroting RNC handouts verbatim.

I know I don't agree with many of the DUers here. I'm far closer to the DLC than most posters here. But I do know one thing--the Democratic Party is the last best chance for the US to maintain the ideals it had at its founding and the best chance to maintain the consensus of a better society that began to coalesce since the turn of the last century. We Democrats and progressives may disagree about the best course of making and maintaining such a society and polity , but we know that the Republicans aren't interested in these ideals and concepts at all.

--VG

[camero]

76. The "mainstream" has been shifted so far right......

That I really would like to no longer be called "mainstream". It's like we're in an alternate universe almost. The "mainstream" is getting more and more wacko by the day.

[populistmom]

77. We're not the Democratic party

We're a group of (mostly) Democrats. We're not some officially sanction party group. It shouldn't matter.