If the ACLU and the DNC disagree, who do you tend to support?

[Bush loves Jiang]

I tend to support the ACLU, except on campaign finance reform.

[beyurslf]

1. ACLU.

[Cocoa]

2. I don't think that way

:shrug:

[Bush loves Jiang]

3. You probably should...

Otherwise, how can you steer your party in the direction that you want it to go?

[Cocoa]

9. the comparison is not good

the DNC is an explicitly partisan organization, of course. They're not any kind of source of truth on their own.

Compared to the ACLU, they have zero credibility, because of their partisan purpose, so by any measure they're going to look bad in the comparison.

But in terms of getting dems elected, I'll take the DNC.

[private_ryan]

4. ACLU

all the way. DNC will sell out for cash anytime.

[Cocoa]

8. or for political gain

then again, that's what they're there for.

[mmm]

5. ACLU

almost always, but not always.
The ACLU occasionally takes things too far.
This, of course, is their function, I expect that from them.
Nonetheless, it seems wise to review their policy and disagree
when warranted.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. ACLU

regarless of how much my ideology may or maynot agree w.the DNC, i strongly believes all politicians are basically selfish and poll oriented..the ACLU is not afraid of being unpopular

[Q3JR4]

7. I don't know.

It depends on what the disagreement is over.

:shrug:

[Strapping Buck]

10. I give my allegiance to neither...

The DNC often goes right if it feels that's where the votes are. So, I support them if they stay to the left.

The ACLU isn't much better, but for different reasons. The ACLU has its pet issues and its pet perspectives. There are often cases dealing with abuse of civil liberties that the ACLU won't touch with a may pole-- usually ones dealing with a religious person's right to practice their religion freely.

[liberalhistorian]

12. On the contrary, there have been many

cases where the ACLU has stood up for the rights of an individual to freely practice his or her own religion. Where they have a problem with it, and rightfully so, is when people try to shove their own religion down everyone else's throats (such as in public schools, public agencies, public property, etc.), failing to respect the fact that such institutions are PUBLIC and not everyone in them practices the same religion.

[liberalhistorian]

11. The ACLU.

Definitely the ACLU. No doubts or questions about it, no ifs, ands, or buts!

[CalebHayes]

13. ACLU - I owe them

They have done quite a bit for me. I don't know how I could thank them.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/113492_joel21.shtml?searchpagefrom=1&searchdiff=285

[MysticMind]

14. The DNC

I disagree with the ACLU on certain issues, like ending the war on drugs.

[Terwilliger]

15. you're for the war on drugs?

had any coffe/coke/alcohol/prozac today?

[private_ryan]

16. oh, but certain drugs are ok

it's just those drugs that hippies and blacks do.

[MysticMind]

17. don't race bait...

You're the one who automatically linked drugs with black people.

[private_ryan]

20. let's see why I did it

who is the war on drugs jailing the most?

[MysticMind]

23. people caught committing other crimes

n/t

[private_ryan]

25. whatever

long live the war on drugs!

[MysticMind]

28. yes whatever...

The problem isn't drug laws, it's illegal searches. Drug dealers should go to jail regardless of race.

[Walt Starr]

31. As soon as the RJR CEO is put in prison

I'll agree with you. He's the biggest drug dealer in the world.

[MysticMind]

34. thats just silly..

You can't say all drugs are the same. Cocaine and nicotine have differing toxicities that create a different reaction in users.

[Walt Starr]

37. FACT: Tobacco killed more Americans last year than all illicit drugs

COMBINED!

Yes, all drugs are the same. Either make them all legal, or make them all illegal.

[MysticMind]

39. that's silly

If you think all drugs are the same you're unreasonable.

[Walt Starr]

41. FACT: Tobbaco is more addictive than heroin

At least tobacco and heroin are the same.

I think YOU are being unreasonable. Are you a chocoholic?

[MysticMind]

43. actually...

No, nicotine isn't more addictive than heroin. It has a different effect as well. Removing nicotine from cigarettes is fine with me. What's its purpose anyway but to make people want to smoke.

[Terwilliger]

45. Oh, please...a cite?

any factual evidence to back up your assertion that nicotine is less addictive than heroin?

And that still doesn't explain why heroin is illegal, yet tobacco you can walk down the street and get a pack. No arrests, no prison.

[DemExpat]

54. People can still perform in jobs on tobacco....

while heroin and other drugs influence performance and productivity - I would guess that this is a major reason why some drugs are acceptable to society...

DemEx

[Walt Starr]

57. I disagree. I was a smoker for more than 22 years

Nicotine is a drug and it does have an effect on your mental cpacity, just like heroin or any other drug. Productivity on nicotine is extremely diminished. I know I became more productive and thought more clearly after kicking the addiction.

People working or driving on nicotine are only fooling themselves if they think their capacity has not been diminished. I know for a fact capacity is diminished while on nicotine.

[DemExpat]

59. Don't have any studies to look at, but smoking tobacco does not

impair performance like heroin etc. does.....Taking breaks cuts down on minutes spent on labor, but I'm sure that I have read studies where smoking actually enhanced productivity - at least mental acuity - for certain types of labor....

Plenty of smokers hold down and perform well in jobs, while I have not seen many success stories of other drug addicts performing well, leading responsible lives and contributing to society.

DemEx

[Walt Starr]

60. True about the drug addicts

when it comes to heroin.

Many cocaine addicts can get a way with it for a very long period of time before it wears on them.

I've known people who lead very productive lives when smoking cannabis all day long. That may qualify as an addicted person who was still able to function, like a tobacco addict.

I guarantee you, I was much more productive and far more mentally acute after giving up tobacco. Most people are. Nicotine does impair you mentally.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

61. A lot of heroin addicts live long lives

William Burroughs anyone?

[DemExpat]

63. I'm certainly not lobbying for tobacco.....

I also quit smoking after 10 years......20 years ago.
I also smoked cannabis for a few years on a daily basis, and performance was drastically impaired...... my experience.

Some heroin addicts here in Holland (not criminalized here) hold down very simple jobs, but the results of dependability are not very positive, I'm afraid. Most are on social welfare and methadon - also quite a cost for society....

DemEx

[Walt Starr]

46. BAN TOBACCOI!!!!

And yes, it is more addictive than heroin. Look at the studies, it was rated at more than twice as addictive as heroin. The cigarette companies actually ADD nicotine to the tobacco to make it even more addictive, and they get away with it.

Have you ever smoked cigarettes? Have you ever smoked heroin? Injected it? Snorted cocaine? smoked it? Injected it?

Describe the differences and similarities between these drugs.

[MysticMind]

18. the use of psychotropic drugs

Bothers me too.

[Terwilliger]

26. well, people's use of alcohol bothers me...lets ban it!

This used to be a free country.

[MysticMind]

35. use of alcohol is regulated

Public drunkeness isn't legal.

[Terwilliger]

38. who said an ything about public? ban it

it causes more death and destruction than any other drug known to man...let's ban it!

You're the drug warrior.

[MysticMind]

40. never said I was a drug warrior..

Just not a proponent of legalizing more drugs and letting people get drunk or high any time or place.

[Terwilliger]

44. I see, so you're a fascist then

it's up to you what people do in the privacy of their own homes?

By the way, the word is "re-legalize"...all drugs used to be legal because the constitution wasn't written to ban anything from anyone.

[MysticMind]

47. the problem is they don't just stay in their homes..

It'd be funny if I was a fascist considering I support democratic elections. Yes, even freely democratic nations have to sometimes regulate the actions of individuals in order to protect others. You obviously have no clue what fascism is.

[Terwilliger]

48. I do, and you didn't answer the question

This thread didn't start out at whether or not people were going to use drugs publicly, and/or in a manner to intrude on your sensibilities. You said that the drug war should continue yet you can't justify it, speak of its effectiveness, or lay out a clear idea on what freedoms we're supposed to have in this country.

Fascism is trying to legislate a person's actions before he does something...kinda like Bush and his craptastic reasoning for attacking Iraq.

[MysticMind]

51. not exactly...

Basically fascism is anything you disagree with.

[Walt Starr]

22. Get it right, it's NOT the war on drugs

It's the War on SOME Drugs. Other drugs are fine if they make a profit for some corporation that makes large political donations. The DNC is all for those drugs.

[MysticMind]

24. pharmaceutical companies

Could make billions selling cocaine.

[Walt Starr]

27. Instead, they make billions selling synthetic caffeine

which is as dangerous or more dangerous than ephedra.

And they make billions selling Xanax, which is far worse for you than Cannabis.

And they make billions selling Oxycontin, which is more addictive than cocaine.

Yep, they sell the drugs that make them the most money. cocaine is too expensive to synthesize and the trade in the vegetative matter it can be extracted from is based in a third world country.

Modern opiates are synthesized, not extracted, hence we use Oxycontin rather than Heroin.

[MysticMind]

30. you're right

It's a conspiracy by the Man. Coffee is as deadly as heroin now?

[Walt Starr]

32. Nope, but synthetic caffeine pills are deadlier than

Ephedra. But those make a big profit, ergo, they are not banned in the War on SOME Drugs.

If you support the WOD, you must support banning all drugs, including chocolate, tobacco, alcohol, aspirin. Nothing should be available except by presciption.

Anything else is hypocritical.

[MysticMind]

36. caffeine pills shouldn't be

available OTC.

[Walt Starr]

52. BAN CAFFEINE!!!!

Better throw in chocolate, tea, and coffee too, just to be safe.

[Terwilliger]

29. they already have

check your history

One of the reasons that the FDA came into being was because drug companies sold things that they didn't inform the consumer about, and half the housewives in the US were addicted to coke, heroin, and barbiturates.

So, now that we have that regulation and inspection, the freedom to choose outweighs the government's desire to prohibit.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. It depends on the issue

But I suppose I might lean more towards the ACLU in more cases where they diverge in policy.

[Walt Starr]

21. ACLU

ACLU over party or anything else. They're all that stands between us and totalitarianism.

The DNC is 100% WRONG when it comes to the War on Some Drugs.

[Selwynn]

33. ACLU, no question.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

42. ACLU

[jonnyblitz]

49. ACLU n/t

[Ficus]

50. card carrying member

and proud. ACLU all the way baby!

[CalebHayes]

53. Same here!

[Piperay]

55. Just became a card carrying member

of the ACLU this week. I have some doubts about them because of their support for Nazis and the KKK but overall I would go along with them over the DNC. The Democrats often turn into wimps but I have never seen the ACLU knuckle under.

[corporatewhore]

56. Commie Pinko ACLU card carrying member right here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LiberalFighter]

58. Depends on who is talking for the DNC at the time.

[Darranar]

62. It depends on the issue.