Why did our Dems sell us out on Patriot Act 2?

[Sterling]

I am having a sort of crisis right now, trying to decide if the party is now my enemy along with the Bushbots?

[RedSock]

1. good cop/bad cop

they both serve big business over the people.

they've got us locked in an interrogation room and are pulling a HUGE good cop/bad cop routine on us.

[Sterling]

3. Seems so.

Unless I see some kick ass from the dems on this pronto I will withdrawl my support for the party. Clock is ticking.

[evil_orange_cat]

13. I agree... look at the campaign contributions...

in general, corporate America gives 75% of their money to Repukes... 25% to Demoncrats... it's not hard to find out who is on the take. Democracy can't survive when corporate money plays such a large role in politics.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Teh senate was a voice vote

You will never know who voted for what?

Even if ALL of the Dems said NAY, it still passes

Now tracking down the vote in the House will be a tad tricky... but there are some people who will do this... because of the pressure

[Sterling]

4. I know I have not heard a peep from any Dem

That is enough for me to know who is on what side.

[DUreader]

10. Byrd was trying to stop this when they rammed it thru

One other senator seemed to be backing him up

I think there were hardly any senators present when they did this

[Skip Intro]

9. Wrong wrong wrong

This whole voice vote thing, on this issue, at this time.

Unless the Dems were forced into it, and I mean forced, then I have to begin to wonder to what extent our party is corrupted. We could definitely stand to shed a few, I think.

This powerlust is a cancer on our political system. It already has the republikan party near death, and it will kill our party as well unless we find it and stop it.

All federal governmental powers should be frozen immediately pending citizen review.

[KoKo]

30. Byrd is old enough not to have to worry about the Lobbyists. He saw it

all and he decided his "Legacy" was to Speak UP! Loudly....about what being in the Senate was "really" all about.

While Byrd has been labeled "Mr. Pork" for WVA, I know watching this man who argued his heart out on the Senate Floor that he knew that America was in "CRISIS." He doesn't need the "lobbyists" at this point so he could tell us the "TRUTH."

And Bobby Byrd, spoke it "straight up, from his heart" with "exprience of many years on the floor of the Senate, and with some years of "pork" under his belt..he still told us where the "bodies are buried" and that our "Democracy was in Peril."

We listened....those of us here on DU who watched all of his arguments on the Senate floor. And, we learned that our Democratic Party had for "the most part....not all...but the most part" Sold Us Down the River..for Profits.

We've got to reform the Donkey. It's time. We've got to do it even if it take longer than we though. Just my 2 cents. But, I'm an "oldie" DU'er and have a "perspective" of years of watching my Party to "give aways" and "lose it's soul."

[Skip Intro]

41. Yeah, I agree

The party needs to be reformed to some extent. The Dems that didn't speak out about this vote are suspect, what else can be said. And none of them, afaict, have.

I start to feel sometimes that there is some invisble force, not yet clearly perceptable, that doesn't recognize the party lines. It controls the repuke party, and must be a stong force in our party.

Some but not all - according to Byrd.

We have to get past this election first - we have to hang together to get thru this - bush has got to go. I agree, after the election, I think we should re-examine who we are, and who we want to be and what we want America to be.

Salvation from bush first is paramount.

[buycitgo]

44. you can't have a voice vote unless there's no dem on the floor.....

it has to be unanimously agreed upon by all there.

that's why they had those thirty hours of BS awhile ago.

if they didn't have somebody there, it's the DEMS fault!

this isn't the PATRIOT II act, either.

it's similar, but PATRIOT II is still being written by Ashcroft's orcs.

lots of links to verify this, but why bother anymore.....this misconception defies being accurately portrayed.

for the last time (from me, anyway)

this was HR 2417, passed as the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004

look it up

[shanti]

56. IT makes you wonder if they were told

to stay away for this vote...why the hell wouldn't there be any dems????

[buycitgo]

57. geeeeee. if we had a functioning media........

we might be able to find out the answer to that question.

as it stands, nobody even knows that this abomination is OUT there, much less HOW it got out there.

not to mention that it has NOTHING to do, in name, anyway with PATRIOT II.......not capping that for fun....PATRIOT is some idiotic, asisine, fascistic acronym, THWDAK

[Speed8098]

74. Here's the link to HR2417

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2003_rpt/hr2417.htm

[Fleshdancer]

5. Good &$%@&! question Sterling

I don't know about the rest of you, but the giant knife in my back isn't feeling all that good.

Part of me is hoping this story is one huge internet hoax. A gal can dream can't she?

[101 Proof]

6. I dunno...

but if I found out a Democrat sold out his/her constituents by voting "yea" on the Patriot Act, I'd drop him/her like a bad habit. I thought we were a party who stood up for our rights/freedoms/liberties. I will refuse to stand behind a Democratic candidate who voted to limit our freedoms/rights/liberties.

Maybe I was wrong....I'm in the same boat you're in, Sterling. I hope this isn't the case...:shrug:

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. Patriot II passed because it is popular

There is a craze right now among the US voting class for an authoritarian regime, they are frightened, and they like the idea of someone telling them what to do, and punishing them if they complain about it.

In a way it is a kind of return to childhood, they like the idea of "telling on" their neighbors, and they like to think that there is an all-powerful government keeping them on a short leash and making sure that they are "safe."

It is ironic that the very people who are concerned about "evildoers who hate freedom" do not really care too much for it themselves, while those who are considered the haters of it require entire armies and torture squads to keep them from snatching just a little bit of it.

[DUreader]

8. Patriot 2 was stopped last jan due to public outcry

this just passed with little or no media attention

[DuctapeFatwa]

14. It was public outcry from media and a minority of "activists"

Go ask your local Nascar dad what he thinks of it :)

[DUreader]

17. No it was bipartisan grass roots outcry

Real conservatives are just as scared and pissed as liberals

[Sterling]

29. You are right this is an issue I have been using on pukes

My redneck friends are angry at the people behind the Patriot act 1 and have said I quote "they will never really pass Patriot 2 or there will be a revolt".

It seems the Dems sold us out here I can't exactly defend them on this one and don't think I should bother with them anymore.

[mkultra]

22. media outcry was a result of public outcry

there where large numbers of people upset about it. Thats why asscroft toured the nation trying to convince people it was no big deal.

[DuctapeFatwa]

27. I looked out the window. No people. Checked CNN

No hordes storming the White House. Nor were there when Patriot I was passed.

The voters are doing a superhuman job of containing their outrage.

[Sterling]

31. So you saw that CNN announced that Patriot 2 was passed?

And they explained what it meant? I find that the universal outrage only happenes when people are aware what is going on. This was obviously done as stealth as possible.

It is up to us to spread the word. Fact is we are not alone on this issue, we have friends on the right and left on this one. Give it time and put some effort into spreading the word, you will find lots of support.

[DuctapeFatwa]

50. You are making my point for me, and you are forgetting that most

voters are neither as informed, as politically sophisticated, nor as engaged and active as you are.

No, CNN did not show it. What CNN did show were the obligatory people in airports, cheerfully saying how they did not mind losing a few extra hours of their holiday time, in the interest of keeping America safe from terra.

Then they went on to board airplanes, on which boxcutters were banned in 1994, and on which you may carry your butane lighter in your pocket today.

[Sterling]

70. Just seems like you don't think we should bother.

Yes I too am cynical when it comes to the state of the media and ignorance of the majority of Americans. It does not take a majority to get things done though so don't throw in the towel.

Their are a lot less people in the dark about 9-11 and the lies about WMD than there were a year ago.

[mkultra]

53. Communities

Several Communities and states passed legislation admonishing the Patriot act.

[DuctapeFatwa]

55. several. out of millions.

Those several are to be commended for their courage.

[Redneck Socialist]

33. I don't think so.

Most folks have never heard of PA I much less PA II and even fewer understand what a voice vote means. If there was a full and open national debate about the provisions of the Patriot Acts there would be a huge out cry against them.

Americans have a very real anti authoritarian streak, but most folks don't pay all that much attention to politics. We get the government we deserve.

[Sterling]

49. wqow people really are dumb where you live.

You really have to be out of the loop not to know about Pat 1. It has been discussed in the mainstream quite a bit by everyone from news whores to comedians.

[Redneck Socialist]

91. Not dumb...

...just not very interested in politics.

Most folks don't pay as much attention to politics as we here at DU do. Dismissing people who don't agree with us as dumb won't win us many votes.

[DuctapeFatwa]

52. What they do know is that the govmint has cracked down on tersts

Try putting on eastern dress and going down to the local mall.

That should be informative in itself for you, if not, while there, strike up a conversation with a fellow window shopper about the immorality of the invasion of Iraq. Share your feelings about the un and underreported civilian casualties in Afghanistan. Carry an almanac.

As you are taken away, ask the crowd that will have gathered if they approve.

[Sterling]

77. Wow you must live in a KKK area.

Even OKC where I grew up is not that racist. They fact is not everyone in America, not even the majority is as stupid as you think they are.


Some are sure, some are just uninformed. Most have a good heart if you appeal to the sense of right and wrong.

I have put forth the effort to talk to my fellow Americans about this stuff and I trust them more than CNN or Fox to tell me what they think.


You seem to be buying the lie wholesale. It's not that black and white.

[Selwynn]

65. This is definately mistaken

Every media write up on the Patriot act II calls it the "hugely unpopular Patriot Act I and II" -- what you have said was true of the public two years ago. It is not true now. The Patriot Act has lost almost all public support, and the Patriot Act II is wildly unpopular amoung the people who know anything about it.

[Sterling]

78. Thx

I have noticed the same and my friends on the right and left all think their civil rights are important to them.

[Sterling]

71. I wanted to add

You are accepting the reality that the cable news presents as the actual feelings of the average American.

When I talk to people both right and left they overwhelmingly oppose the erosion of our civil liberties. Fighting the CNN image is hard. It even gets us believing there is no hope.

What do people you know about this stuff and where are you?

[YNGW]

11. I did a google search...

... and did not came away with links to this "Patriot Act II" story that I consider reliable. Got stuff like slate and indymedia and alternet and eff and a few others, but nothing I can sink my teeth into. If anyone has a reliable link, please post it for review. Thank you in advance.

[DUreader]

15. What is reliable to you?

read the law itself

[YNGW]

23. Post #21

On Edit: Post #21 explained what happened. Thank You.

[maggrwaggr]

12. I think a party enema is in the offing

as in -- a purge.

as in -- all of them must go.

time to throw out the bad and start over.

[KoKo]

36. And, Daschle has to be the FIRST to GO! Get him OUTTA THERE!

I'm sick of getting his campaign envelopes asking me to donate. I send them back with scrawled messages about how he's let us down, and his campaign folks keep sending..and sending..and sending.

I'm going to call his office after the Holidays and tell them to remove me from this mail list I'm on where he keeps sending me stuff along with Diane Feinstein! I'm a Left Wing Dem at this point. How and why I EVER got on their Damn lists is a complete wonder to me! I've not donated to either of them...but they keep waisting their money (which must be huge because it's "once a week" I get their campaign crap) on me....who is on only the most "lefty lists."

AND, some DCC person called me last week and when I tried to tell her I wanted Corporate Lobbyist money out of the Dem Party she hung up on me!

What kind of party is this, if I'm getting treated like this, and I'm a lifelong Dem whose been around awhile. Do they really believe we are all SHEEPLE! Jeeze! :nuke:

[ldoolin]

16. Did the actual "Patriot Act II" pass?

I was under the understanding that the appropriations bill for homeland security is what passed. It had an amendment attached to it which contained *one* of the proposed Patriot Act II provisions, but the entire Patriot Act II has not been passed.

If I'm wrong about this and the entire Patriot Act II has passed, please let me know and I will promptly change my voter registration from "Democrat" to "Green".

BTW the Senate passage of the appropriations bill was by a voice vote, but it was by recorded vote in the House. Of the presidential candidates, Gephardt missed the vote, and Kucinich voted no.

[DUreader]

18. details of the bill are secret, so I would guess yes

it had TIA in it

[Cocoa]

26. the "secret law" thing is misinfo or disinfo

unless you have a link.

This has been repeated here, but when I asked for an explanation I got a lot of cursing and capital letters and bold font.

Got a link for this hard-to-believe claim about a "secret law?"

[DUreader]

42. OK after some reading , I think it was drafted in secret

Due to it being an intel. funding bill

These ideas about secret legislation have come from speaches made

by, I think, Ron Paul in which he complained of the details of the

bill being secret so as to prevent another public outcry.

Now That It is Law I think we should be able to read the details that

are not black-budget items.

Thanks for checking me on that, I feel a little better than I have in days.

[whatelseisnew]

62. ""Most details of the bill are secret" from news.google.com

looks like it is from an AP story

http://news.google.com/news?q=%22Most+details+of+the+bill+are+secret%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&start=0&sa=N&filter=0

New law grants FBI more access
Seattle Times, WA - Dec 15, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total cost
of the programs, which is estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

WORLD NATION BRIEFS
Newsday - Dec 15, 2003
... Saturday. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Bush Signs Bill Expanding FBI Authority
Los Angeles Times (subscription), CA - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Bush Signs Bill Expanding FBI Authority
Chicago Tribune (subscription), IL - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Bush signs intelligence bill expanding FBI authority to demand ...
San Francisco Chronicle, CA - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Bush signs bill expanding FBI authority
San Jose Mercury News, CA - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Bush Signs Bill Expanding FBI Authority
ABC News - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Get the latest store sales and specials from
Miami Herald, FL - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

New law opens business records to FBI
Jackson Clarion Ledger, MS - Dec 15, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

Bush signs intelligence bill expanding FBI authority to demand ...
Puerto Rico Wow, Puerto Rico - Dec 14, 2003
... programs. Most details of the bill are secret, including the total costs
of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. ...

[ima_sinnic]

21. no, the entire PA II did not pass--a part of it was snuck into

the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004

to see how the Representatives voted, click here:
Final Vote Results for Roll Call 649
264 yeas to 163 nays, most of whom were Democrats--but many Democrats also voted in favor

on edit: there is no record of the Senate voice vote--very few were present when it was passed

[Upfront]

25. Did Gep. vote?

Don't see it here.

[ima_sinnic]

28. way down at the bottom: "did not vote"

:shrug:

[ldoolin]

32. Thought so

Take a close look at the Democrats who voted yes.

Then remember their yes votes if/when they face primary challenges next election. (I am NOT recommending voting Repuke, Loonytarian, or Green - just that DINOs should be replaced by real Democrats via primary challenges. Let's keep those seats Democratic but get some real Democrats with spine in there.)

[hellhathnofury]

86. My Republican congressman Dreier voted for and

the D who's district starts the next block over Adam Schiff.

[mkultra]

19. republicans control

Because they are a minority in both houses

[worldgonekrazy]

20. Doesn't stop them from taking it to the media

There was a huge outcry on Patriot II when it was leaked months ago. The Dems could have capitalized on this by saying "The Repubs are trying to do it anyway in secret" but instead they just went along with it. One of those incidents that re-affirms my oft-allegiance to the Green party.

[Eric J in MN]

24. Dennis Kucinich will try to reverse the Patriot Act 2

Kucinich: No Expansion of "PATRIOT" Act
12/29/03

Kucinich will introduce legislation to repeal a section of the FY '04 Intelligence Authorization Act that expands powers granted to the federal government in the USA PATRIOT Act, allowing the government greater power to acquire financial records without judicial oversight from car dealers, pawnbrokers, travel agencies, and many other businesses. Traditional financial institutions like banks and credit unions are already subject to such demands, but this dramatic expansion of government authority will mean that records created by average citizens who purchase cars, plan vacations, or buy gifts will be subject to government seizure and analysis without the important requirements of probable cause or judicial review. This provision initially appeared in a leaked draft of the so-called "PATRIOT II", a proposal the American public and Members of Congress on both sides of the aisle in the House and Senate rejected.

"If we allow this Administration to continue this trend of expanding governmental powers at the expense of our civil rights our very democracy is at stake. Today, I join with over 229 communities in 35 states that represent over 29 million citizens, that have passed resolutions opposed to the law, in standing up to this abuse of power. It is now clear the administration's strategy is to pass PATRIOT II in separate pieces with little public debate, in secret, and surreptitiously attached to other legislation. This is far from an appropriate or democratic way to handle issues that affect the fundamental liberties and freedoms of Americans."


http://www.kucinich.us/index.php

Please make a small donation to his campaign, even if Kucinich isn't your first choice.

[KoKo]

34. Kucinich has become the "Conscience" of the Dem Party! Love Him!

And, am glad he got some "matching funds" to stay in longer. Even thought the "whore media" pisses on him, he still pipes up and has gotten enough donations (mine included) to hang in for awhile. Good!

[redqueen]

72. "the administration's strategy is to pass PATRIOT II in separate pieces"

Just had to repeat that.

At least one Democrat is speaking out.

Is anybody listening?

He's even running for President.

So while you're all lamenting how badly we've been betrayed by our Dem leaders, maybe you might consider voting for something DIFFERENT this time. :D

[salin]

35. Am I reading this correctly... Pelosi broke ranks and voted FOR it????

Very disappointing.

[KoKo]

37. I don't know about the vote, Salin. It's just now leaking out. But, not

a Pelosi fan here, hard as I've tried. If the House tolerated Gephardt who "sold the store, imho" then how could I trust her. I've seen her be strong, but her "eye job" makes me put her in the category of those "ageing old men" who dye their hair (like Thurmond) because they want to be "forever young" to catch the "chickies."

Not people who inspire me. But, many DU'er DO FEEL Pelosi is better than I think...so I wait and watch.

[Cocoa]

40. she inspired me with her fight against the medicare bill

her actions on the floor, and afterwards appearing with Kennedy and others.

edit: she WON that fight, btw. The bill was defeated, the GOP had to committ felonies to steal it.

[salin]

59. btw, I would REALLY like to see congressional tactics

work their way into the election. It worked in 1994 - with the push for "term limits" based on concerns about abuse of power by those who had been there to long. This new practice which appears to becoming operating procedure this winter, of locking all democrats out of all conference committee procedures (and thus locking out the representation of nearly half of the voting public) and then completely re-writing the legislation (rather working on compromises based on the difference between the house and senate bill) is a very big deal. Especially when there are reports that while elected Democrats are locked out of the process, unelected huge corporate interest lobbyists are inside of the process (and allegedly writing sections of the bills). This is a huge step away from any democratic system. I don't know how to package this issue in a campaignable - winning message... but done correctly it is a message that would resonate with folks across the political spectrum.

[KoKo]

60. Cocoa, I agree. I thought she did great on the Medicare Bill......I'm

still hoping to get over my worries/dislike (?) of her. I hope I'm wrong. She had a good moment with that one though. I applaud her.

[salin]

58. I was a fan when I lived in the Bay Area -

she didn't represent me - but was covered a great deal in the news cycle. Always seemed to be very true to liberal ideas. But then again, she wasn't the minority leader - so there might not have been as much scrutiny to all of her votes. My perception is that she has moderated some of her votes due to her position - rather than representing those who sent her to congeress (her distrtict) in reaction to the big media criticisms ala "latte liberal" etc. But as I said, I didn't scrutinize her voting record (maybe it has been like this all along) prior to her taking the top leadership position for dems in the House.

To me cosmetics are cosmetics. Reagan dying his hair didn't really bother me one way or another (his policies are another thing, of course) and any cosmetic surgery she may appear to have had doesn't bother me on way or another. Her voting record - as leader of dems in the House, however - does cause me to pay attention.

[NNN0LHI]

38. Keep tearing down the Democrats...

...and you will be asking yourself how did we get Patriot Act 3, Patriot Act 4, Patriot Act 5, etc., with Ashcroft running the whole fucking thing.

Don

[KoKo]

61. Don, no one wants to tear down our Dem Leadership, they do it for us.....

and I am so glad when we see small bands of them "tough it out." Like in the House, both of my NC Reps have voted with the Caucus. That's unusual. They both hear from me about the good job they're doing.

It's that the "good guys/gals" aren't getting the support of the leadership. Pelosi seems to be trying..I have problems with her, but she's better than Gephardt to me.

I understand what you are trying to say about Dems hanging together but you must be as discouraged as some of us more "leftward" in the party by some of their unfailing support of Bush's policies? :shrug:

[NNN0LHI]

63. Actually KoKo01 I am more discouraged by the people who fall for...

...the same BS that a Republican financed third party like the Greens who attack our Dem candidates spews out. Hard for me to believe that seemingly normal, intelligent people fall for this crap time after time. That is what discourages me if you really want to know the truth.

Don

[Terwilliger]

90. So, you say stupid, irresponsible things like this

and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

[Terwilliger]

89. We got Patriot I because the Democrats did NOTHING about it

I'm with Sterling...Dems aren't our friends, they're interested in themselves.

[genius]

39. DEan called for a re-evaluation of the need for personal liberties after

9/11. Even he sold us out. Kucinich and Sharpton are clearly the best on this issue. Edwards has come around too.

[Sterling]

47. Link plz

Dean has never said what you are saying he said. If he did please provide some proof.

[MoonRiver]

43. I'm with you, I need answers YESTERDAY.

We weren't reacting to a horrific crisis, i.e. 9/11, and supposedly the Senate Dems know as well as the rest of US that bu*hies are decimating our civil rights!

:wtf:

[buycitgo]

45. see post #44......this is NOT PATRIOT II.....it's still being written

in case anyone cares about the differences.....this one is bad, but the real one is going to be worse; more encompassing, and MORE secret

[FDRrocks]

46. What of the VICTORY act?

Wasn't asscraft trying to sell that with his tour many months ago? I'm pretty sure that is what is commonly referred to as the Patriot Act two.

[Sterling]

48. It seems the are splitting it up to sneak it buy.

nt

[veracity]

51. Not the party...

...but those in office using the name of the Dems. Time to throw out the bums...make them accountable. Express your outrage to your Reps and Senators....they WEIGH the mail - depending on the category. Email, snail mail, call..do it all. Then go to work for replacements who come up. It's not enough to gripe....get active in the campaigns, - ask the right questions, demand the right answers. Politicians are politicians..and they are concerned with one thing - staying in office.
That's up to us to move ourelves....

[goforit]

54. You just go ask Lieberman/Kerry and Gepthardt those same questions.

The DLCrs who sold their souls and took ours with them.

Shame on them!!!

[MadHound]

64. And you folks are suprised at this sell out? Why?

It is simply another stab in the back, the latest in a long list of many. I mean really now, can you expect anything else but this kind of sell out when the Dems have sold us down the river with the first Patriot Act, the IWR, Medicare, welfare "reform", NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, the '96 Telecom Act, and on and on ad nauseum.

Maybe, hopefully more people will wake up to the fact that we now live under a two party, one corporate master system of governmnet. It no longer matters whether the person has a D or R behind their name, they are there to serve their corporate constituency first, enrich themselves second, but you and I are simply an afterthought. The only reason that we the people are given any due at all anymore is because once every two, four, or six years our vote is needed to provide some legitimacy to the nationwide election process.

Welcome to this brave new world Sterling. Many of us also had some sort of crisis concerning the Party. It will pass, your eyes will be opened, and ultimately the truth will set us all free.

[pnziii]

66. This is why we need Dean

The Dems are trying to do damage control. They are afraid of losing more seats so they are playing nice with the Repbulicans.

Dacshle appointed a pro-war chairman to the 9/11 commision.
They are losing their fight.
We need someone from the outside to kick some butt

[NNN0LHI]

68. Are you suggesting Dean is not really a Dem, or what? n/t

[Scott Lee]

82. And Dean is antiestablishment....connect the dots.

[Cocoa]

84. Bush apponted the chair of the commission

and what does being "pro-war" have to do with that commission anyway?

[Loonman]

67. "please Bush, don't hurt us"

[Sterling]

69. What are we going to do about it?

:kick:

[leesa]

73. Because they are rich and the battle is between the rich

elite and the rest of us. Why do they support most everything the Repugs do? These horrible things they are doing to our country are good business for their pocketbooks.

[Malva Zebrina]

75. my honest, first gut reaction is that

they were and are threatened and fearful of the bully Bush. I think they are cowed before him and do not want to make waves. They will survive using this technique, too. Do NOT make waves and ride it out being totally able to put aside all ideological concerns. Hey--you get a job with a good salary and you get perks with it, and power and acclaim, as well as being able to vote yourself a raise every year--hey that's not bad!

There are few who really are thinking of the direction the country is taking. It seems to me they are thinking only of themself and their re-election. I am thinking mainly, of my two senators, Snow and Collins. Collins won in the last election with money supplied by Bush and she had to lick his boots to get it--she is a dumb as a box of doorknobs, imo. And Snow, well she is playing the game also. She is NO Margaret Chase Smith--she is weak and is relatively , a wannabe--but not the one to take any risks at all. She wants to keep her job--pretty good one as far as jobs go.

[The Sushi Bandit]

76. Maybe its time to go "GREEN"!

nm

[Sterling]

79. No its time to take the party back.

Nothing against the Greens but I am too pissed to let these assholes have the party that is supposed to represent the common man. They need to leave not me.

[NNN0LHI]

88. Yea. That plan turned out so well in 2000 you want to try it again?

Thats the ticket. I'm really looking forward to JeD Bush taking over after Junior leaves in 2008. Wouldn't that be great?

Don

[corporatewhore]

80. Kucinich did not sell us out on p1 or p2

[stickdog]

81. This is the first I've heard of this. And FUCK this PISSES me off!

Why isn't Dean or Clark or Kerry saying anything about this?

Too busy selling the Bill of Rights up the river?

[proud patriot]

83. FEAR

[Must_B_Free]

85. Patriot II??? And I thought Shrek II was going to be bad...

[David Zephyr]

87. My Same "Year in Review" Thoughts, Sterling!

We must be thinking the very same thing, Sterling.

Here's my year end tribute to Tom Daschle who provided the "leadership" in the U.S. Senate that gave us "The Patriot Act".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=971885