Their Hate - Our Anger

[Q]

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hatred

Strong aversion; intense dislike; hate; an affection of the mind awakened by something regarded as evil.

Anger

A strong emotion; a feeling that is oriented toward some real or supposed grievance.

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- I've never fully understood why RWingers hate us so much. I can trace it in part back to the days of Reagan and his rants against 'hippies' and 'welfare queens'. But have Democrats really done anything that would justify the type of hatred we see coming from Republicans?

- Do they hate us for Nixon's resignation and disgrace? The hearings and investigations surrounding Iran/Contra and the selling of weapons to terrorists?

- Is it that Republicans think they're superior? Better genes? Is this just another version of a 'master race' trying to dominate all others? Is it about unresolved issues from the civil war? A puritanical resentment of the stereotypical liberal lifestyle?

- On the other side of the argument: is our anger justified?

- Should we feel anger over the 2000 election? The coverup of corporate corruption? Bush* hiding the presidential papers of his Poppy and Reagan? Cheney keeping national energy policy secret? The obstruction of justice in the matter of 9-11? Using 9-11 for political advantage? The outing of a CIA agent? The relationship between Bush* and the Saudi royal / bin Laden families? War profiteering? Cronyism? Nepotism?

- The answer is that Republicans would be just as angry if these things happened while a Democrat sat in the oval office. But for some odd reason they seem to think that only their anger is justified while ours can only be bitter partisanship.

- Anger is a natural reaction to being wronged and justice not served. There is nothing wrong with anger as long as there is a resolution somewhere along the way. The only way the left's anger and resentment will find closure is if Bush* is finally brought to justice and impeached or forced to resign.

- Otherwise...the anger and resentment will only build while Bush* attains more power to destroy us and our beloved country. As Robin Williams said about church pedophiles: It's not just a sin...it's a felony...and we have to keep track.

[SheilaT]

1. For reasons I don't really understand

most right-wingers are utterly convinced that they are moral and completely deserving of the good things that happen to them. Ergo, others must be unmoral and likewise deserving of the (bad) things that happen to them. They have no concept that being white or male or from a middle class family or having parents who encouraged them to do well in school is in any way a helping hand. They honestly think they did it all themselves.

Even the so-called Christians among them who can talk about how Christ forgave sinners never themselves forgive sinners. Sometimes they have a change of attitude when certain things happen. Sometimes they stop hating gay people when they discover a son or daughter is gay. Sometimes they understand the need for universal health care when a medical catastrophe strikes them. They do get irritated when "affirmative action" limits their ability to get into college or certain jobs as a simple birthright.

But for the most part it seems to me hopeless the think they'll ever change.

[eileen from OH]

4. Clinton is a big part of it

They always felt they "deserved" to win those elections. If you think that we were angry over the 2000 election, it was nuthin' compared to theirs over Clinton's Presidency. They always felt he was a usurper and illegitimate and some hick that had taken the place of the rightful rightwing Brahmins who SHOULD have won. Which led to their 8 year crusade to have him thrown out. They've got a humonguous entitlement thing going on.

eileen from OH

[maggrwaggr]

9. but this started long before anybody heard of Clinton

I know exactly what you're talking about, Q. It's always mystified me, too. Let's see, liberals have always stood for doing the right thing, for morals, for progress, for democracy.

And they hate our GUTS for this?!

What really got me was in the 1980 election when I realized that Ronald Reagan and James Watt and Co. wanted to fuck with environmentalists simply out of spite. They wanted to trash the environmental laws that people had fought for and that a republican president had even supported! Even though 61% of the republicans at the time thought that environmental laws needed strengthening, not weakening, these weirdos just HATED environmentalists and anything resembling them.

I have NEVER understood this one bit. What I do understand is that these people need to be fought tooth and nail so they can't destroy anymore than they are already doing.

They are like psychotic arsonists. Just wanting to watch things burn and be destroyed for some psychotic satisfaction.

[Kanary]

11. Remember Lot?

"Ergo, others must be unmoral and likewise deserving of the (bad) things that happen to them."

I've been thinking more and more that because so much of this "thought" (ahem) comes from their version of christianity, it needs to be countered time and time again with what christianity *really* said. The story of Lot taught that misfortune is *not* the result of "sin" or "evildoing", but simply misfortune. I'm coming to the conclusion that it's time to toss it all back to them in what was actually said, not in what they are misquoting.

Kanary

[LeahMira]

21. Do you mean Job?

The story of Lot taught that misfortune is *not* the result of "sin" or "evildoing", but simply misfortune.

Lot is the guy whose wife got turned into a pillar of salt on the way out of Sodom. Job is the guy who endured all sorts of sufferings even though he was a just man.

Anyhow, in response to the original question, I think Christians want to have a Christian country where their values and such are the rhythm of the land. In a way I see it as sort of like Jews want Israel as a Jewish state, although the comparison is far from perfect in the details.

I think it goes back to the Pilgrims who really did come here in search of religious freedom, although they were unwelcome in Europe not necessarily because they were Christian but because they were such a sanctimonious version of Christian. Still, they see America as a land to which they were led by some divine guidance so they could establish a Christian nation.

Of course American Christians forget that even before the Pilgrims there were the people who came here looking for wealth and resources more than for holiness.

What we are seeing in the Middle East is a group of fundamentalist Islamics who want a state of their own, and I think what we are seeing in the U.S. is a group of fundamentalist Christians who want a state of their own. It's not because they have been persecuted anywhere and need protection or whatever. I think they just don't want to be bothered with any opinions or ideas that conflict with their own. They don't want to be bothered with the secular or non-Christian "devil" tempting them to stray.

[Kanary]

24. I knew it had an "O" in the middle ^_^ n/t

[Blue_Roses]

51. I think you are

right on here. It's exactly what they want

[Homer12]

2. Reality is easier to grasp if an enemy is close at hand

We, the left, have taken the place of communism, and terrorism when there is none to be had.

We are good business and the right can make lots of money bitching and moaing about the left.

I like your post, but it does not really hit on the religious overtones of the rights hatred of us.

They look at the left as moral and ethical inferiors that do not even garner respect.

The right thinks they are justified in anything they do becuase it is backed by religion.

Zealots & Fanatics, they have become more like extreme islamic terrorists than a political philosiphy (which is what it is supposed to be).

[Q]

5. Religious overtones...I would leave it up to others to fill in the blanks.

- But I think it's fair to say that our anger at injustice is no less justified than that of the RWingers.

- Anger is indeed 'good business' for the right.

[G_j]

3. I heard this saying years ago,

"Anger is the love of justice."
your post brought it to mind.

Actually the use of both of these words has become sort of a distraction. Let's look at the facts. Lies, treason, cover-up, slander: just the tip of the iceberg. Emotions aside, there is cold hard evidence. They can be assured I'm angry, but I'd simply point to the facts.
I'd like to see someone try to defend themselves in a court of law by accusing the victim of being angry.

[amber dog democrat]

6. self righteous

dogmatism is a very pernicious phenomena. You can't reason with zealots - especially if they are true believers -
Most of these folks are pretty juvinile. Best avoided if possible.

[methinks2]

40. FEAR

Their anger is because of their fear. They are afraid of anything and everything. :cry: The sky is falling the sky is falling! :scared: We should pity them and pat them on their little pointy heads. Maybe give them a doggy treat and tell them to go lay down. :7

[Cleita]

7. Hippie days. I do remember them.

This is when a bunch of white kids rebelled and decided to join those who didn't have a choice about their economic circumstances. So white kids went into low rent neighborhoods, imbibed dope, created a sexual revolution talked a lot about equality and drugs, sex and rock and roll. Then they all went home.

[Q]

26. Some of us never 'went home'...and therein lies the problem.

- We may not smoke pot anymore...but we still understand what it's like to be oppressed and know injustice and inequality. We're disorganized and without 'leadership'...but we're still out here waiting for a chance to take back our country.

[Bandit]

37. We didn't all go home

The battle is ongoing. I'm still here and have not changed my focus on anything.

[Bucky]

8. Anger vs Hatred - very important distinction

I do not and I never have hated George Bush. I just don't have room for hate in me. But boy am I plenty pissed at him and his reckless policies, smarmy politics, and especially his vanity war in Iraq. But I don't hate. It's contrary to all my beliefs.

Hate creates a smallness of the mind and a meanness of spirit. So I can't hate, because the love in me won't tolerate it. I think that's where the hate towards liberals comes from among some (but by no means all) conservatives. The dittoheads and the rest of the sanctimonious right hate because they've allowed their minds to contract.

It's the same fear-transformed-to-hatred that bred McCarthyism in the 50s and the Red Scare in the 20s and Jim Crowism in the 19th Century. These are the worst examples of conservatism. There's also a good kind of conservatism--that would be the small government/pro-business/pro-growth policies along the lines of what Barry Goldwater and Ron Paul represent. I vigorously disagree with the policies they favor, but I know they would recognize my right to speak up for my side and never question my loyalty to the country.

Barry Goldwater was angry a lot. But I could never characterize him as hateful. Before he crossed over to the dark side, Henry Hyde used to exemplify that spirit too.

[maggrwaggr]

10. sorry, but I fucking hate them.

call me weak, call me small minded, I don't care.

I hate these people. Why? Because they deserve it.

I don't hate very many people. I go out of my way to see everyone's side, hear everyone's story.

But I've been watching these people for almost 25 years. They are liars, they are hypocrites, and they know it and they don't care. They don't believe their own bullshit. They know that others believe their bullshit and support them.

They are spiteful and sadistic and they deserve no pity, no empathy, no time, no consideration.

They are simply criminals in business suits and need to be locked up like any other unrepentant criminal.

If it is possible to rehabilitate them, I haven't seen it. And I don't care.

[Skittles]

19. I AGREE WITH maggrwaggr

rightwing politics are now GETTING PEOPLE KILLED DAILY and DESTROYING AMERICA. WHAT'S NOT TO HATE ?????????????????????????????

[Citizen Daryl]

56. Yep.

It's like I said on Mike Malloy's board:

"Sometimes it's impossible to express, through the written word, the sort of gnawing rage that can only truly be sated by repeatedly smashing a smirking fascist in the face until there's nothing left to break."

[Q]

12. The 'good kind' of conservatism you refer to no longer exists...

- It came and went...along with the 'good kind' of conservative politician that served his country...not himself and his sponsors.

- Hate is festering on the left like an untreated wound. Without treatment...this hate will destroy the left just as it has the right.

- What is the 'treatment' for the left's anger the right's hate? Truth and justice. Yes...it's just that simple.

[MessiahRp]

13. It goes back further than Nixon

Look below for the posting. It posted twice. :0

[MessiahRp]

14. It goes back further than Nixon

Nixon was a paranoid anti-liberal fool but really the hatred of Dems that I can recall starts most heavily with JFK. His liberal stances on the wars of the time enraged the hawks of the right wing. His eventual acceptance of civil rights movements enraged the racist southerners (who now make up the majority of the GOP voting base... for the very same reason).

Those two major splits and the fact that the image of JFK became so beloved world wide and in the American media pissed them off to no ends. Which is why they wanted the man dead so badly.

He stopped their precious invasion of Cuba. Nevermind the fact that it would have erupted a Nuclear War with Russia, if there's one thing learned over time it's that Republicans would much rather kill common Americans off (via perpetual war and drafts, starving social programs that keep people alive, or via destroying the environment out of greed), then deal with them on a daily basis anyways.

He wanted to pull out of Vietnam and splinter the CIA (which conducted the clandestine operations that have us so hated in the Middle East with weapons sharing and overthrowing of democratized elections, and that created the entire Vietnam War out of nothing).

We're called PROgressive because we're trying to better the future. That means the Republicans must be REgressive because they're trying to live in the past.

So they hate us. We embrace everybody and they'd rather live in a bubble. A White, Rich, Heterosexual bubble where everyone does what they say and nobody outside of America dares question our superpower or they shall fear the wrath of the Bomb.

Our anger is based on the fact that these views are not just bigoted, biased, and flat out wrong, but they represent such a disgusting vile view of the world that almost makes these people the animals that they refer to all others as. It's a state of serious mental imbalance and lack of understanding (and possible psychological development) that makes them say and do the things that are meant to purposely hurt others and the world we live in.

I say the great divide started in the JFK era where progressive values became more visible and those who preferred to live in the past drew their lines in the sand.

Rp

[Stone_Spirits]

15. whether it started there or not

there was a great hatred of Kennedy. I would quess that hatred rivaled the Clinton hating. Being Catholic was part of it. It seems his death prompted many to muzzle their hatred outwardly, but there was also Bobby left to hate. They seemed to hate RFK and MLK in the same ugly spirit which is revealing of the roots of the present day right wing. Some of those roots go directly to the KKK and the John Birch society. It's not totally accurate to view RW Republicans as just the rich. I think the wealthy powerful elements aggressively tapped into the racist hatred and ignorance of the poorer ones. Just as ditto heads are exploited today. It's not hard either to see similarities to the Nazis.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

16. It goes back even further...

to the FDR years.

Look at how they recently tried to put Reagan's face on the dime.

Who is on that dime now and why?

FDR was viewed as a class traitor in his day.

Imagine a rich guy truly and seriously helping the poor and meaning it!

* and his crew and all the simpering little minions that cast their vote for them
would like to UNDO all that was done by the FDR administration.

They do want to live in the past- the 1930's.

[G_j]

17. just thought of Smedly Butler and the attempted coup n/t

[Hamlette]

18. they called FDR "that man in the White House"

because they couldn't bring themselves to call him president. And they hated Carter with a passion. I do NOT get that. How could you hate Carter? He was not the strongest leader but as a person he was flawless.

I think the difference between republicans and dems is republicans feel entitled and dems feel grateful or thankful. It colors your world view.

There was an interview on NPR yesterday with Tobias Wolfe. The part I heard he was talking about Ayn Rand. She said no one had ever helped her her entire life. Wolfe argued that if you studied her life you quickly learned she had lots of help. But she believed she'd had no help, she'd done it all on her own. If you believe that you can believe that anyone can get to where you are if they just work hard enough. Makes it easy to hate the poor who are just lazy (they think.)

Rand also said she never made a mistake in her life. What a nut case.

Honestly, hating people because they are different (gays, people who hold different religious views) is part of that same entitlement that allowed Hitler to do what he did to the jews. It makes them crazy to hear that but its true.

[G_j]

20. Mort Saul on "Fresh Air" the other day

pretty amazing interview. He said something like, Democrats feel guilty for what they've aquired, while Republicans feel proud of what they have stolen. I had to laugh.

[Selwynn]

22. It's more like their hate - our hate.

Anger is a transitional emotion - it LEADS to something else. What it leads to can be positive of negative.

What it frequently leads to here is a bunch of bullshit hate filled rhetoric with no action.

What it should lead to is resolve, determination and proactive positive action. It would be nice of someone or some group represented an alternative to being pissed off at everything and everything all the time. I'm fucking sick of it. I want to align with a group of people who are done just sitting around feeling good about how pissed off they are and who are ready to start embracing other emotions and real action.

There will always be something to be pissed off at if that's how you want to live. These years its been Bush, before that it its something else, after Bush it will be something else. It's just a bunch waste to sit around being pissed off all the time, and I swear sometimes our part feels like as much of a hate group as the republican part. It's like politics is the last place were prejudice and hatred is okay and encouraged.

What people don't get is that being pissed off all the time isn't the only option available to someone who wants to be involved and deeply cares about what happens in this country. Just being ragingly angry is like the first step, but its so childish and juvenile that we can't get past that so often and move on to real action for change.

Every time I hear one of these morons say something like "I'm sorry but I fucking hate republicans" because they're all evil or something stupid like that, I always think of what a bunch of bullshit that is in real life. There are plenty of republicans I know who are perfectly great people, including MY PARENTS among others. You may not like Republicans, but guess what, half the country or more is one, so maybe you ought get used to it, get over it, and figure out what to do about it.

Anger is not a force for change. Anger is a transitional emotion - when you just feed anger for anger's sake, it becomes hatred. Nothing valuable comes from hatred in the long run. If Anger, like Q mentioned, is transitioned into positive action, determination and the like, then something good comes from it.

Right now I'm just as upset about how people in our own party act as I am at how people in the Bush Administration act. And I want that to change.

[maggrwaggr]

30. you make many good points. When I first came to DU

I was surprised how it seemed everybody loved to complain vigorously, but nobody seemed to be actually doing anything.

But ..... what the hell are we supposed to do?

How are we supposed to stop CNN from being a propaganda machine of the Bush Administration?

We can't vote them out of office. We can't boycott them. We couldn't even get any news coverage if we protested them because they wouldn't give it to us!

A lot of people feel helpless after they've felt angry and that's what leads to the hatred.

It's not unlike the hatred the palestinians feel at the israelis. What are you supposed to do if you're a palestinian and you can't get a job, you can't go anywhere, you can't even watch TV, all you can do is throw rocks and eventually worse.

[rasputin1952]

Hatred is a learned emotion...

anger is a natural emotion; one that can be controlled.

I do not 'hate' any slave owners, or people that abuse others. But I am 'angry' that they are, (or were), allowed to be accepted.

Hatred is a singular emotion. Anger is a stepped emotion. I may get angry because the person in front of me is driving 15 mph under the speed limit; but I get get considerably angrier at the person who drives drunk and hurts others.

The epitomy of anger is "Righteous Indignation". You KNOW what is happening is wrong, and you stand up and voice the anger you feel.

Most of us are in the "RI" phase, and this is a good thing. As long as we keep to the truth, and keep the pressure on we will destroy those that 'hate' with their own hatred.

just a thought.

O8)

[maggrwaggr]

31. yeah, that attitude really worked well for Tibet

the Tibetans used to be some bad-ass warriors and then they got all buddhist and shit.

Before you flame me, I consider myself a buddhist, but the problem with buddhism is that it's sorta the ultimate "turn the other cheek" kinda religion.

And there are times when you have to fight back.

This is one of them.

[rasputin1952]

48. OF course on needs to fight back....

The object though, is to avoid the confrontation in the first place.

Anger is fine, a healthy emotion; Righteous anger makes for great moral leaps forward.

Hatred only destroys; main difference is, anger can be controlled, hatred cannot.

BTW: I have no problem with Buddhists, I only have problems with zealots, in any form.

:bounce:

[maggrwaggr]

57. if hatred destroys, that's great. We need to destroy them.

these people are criminals who have entrenched themselves in power in our government.

I can't think of anything needing destroying more than that.

If a bunch of wasps made a nest in my bedroom, I'd destroy that, too.

[rasputin1952]

23. Hatred is a learned emotion...

anger is a natural emotion; one that can be controlled.

I do not 'hate' any slave owners, or people that abuse others. But I am 'angry' that they are, (or were), allowed to be accepted.

Hatred is a singular emotion. Anger is a stepped emotion. I may get angry because the person in front of me is driving 15 mph under the speed limit; but I get get considerably angrier at the person who drives drunk and hurts others.

The epitomy of anger is "Righteous Indignation". You KNOW what is happening is wrong, and you stand up and voice the anger you feel.

Most of us are in the "RI" phase, and this is a good thing. As long as we keep to the truth, and keep the pressure on we will destroy those that 'hate' with their own hatred.

just a thought.

O8)

[wanderingbear]

25. The Right wingers beleave they are on a mission from God

To convert all non-beleavers and distroy the Enemies of God.

[LIPiggy]

27. Because...

"You're all fucking idiots". At least that's what they'd like us to think. Personally, I feel the RWingers are a bunch of extremist imbeciles.

[newyawker99]

33. Hi LIPiggy!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Mike Niendorff]

28. They believe their own propaganda, pure and simple.

First, they create a caricature of their opponents.

Second, they cultivate that caricature in the minds of their followers so aggressively that the caricature effectively becomes their reality.

Third, they deliberately and systematically bait their opponents into fights designed to reinforce this caricature in the minds of their followers -- fights which appear to confirm that the caricature is, in fact, the reality.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

In the end, what they hate *is* still just a caricature -- but they have been so thoroughly conditioned to perceive that caricature in every real-world political conflict that they are no longer able to distinguish it from reality.

The hippies. The blacks. The gays. The Jews. The Catholics. The Welfare Queens. The communists. The socialists. The pacifists. The druggies. The "secular humanists". The "gun grabbers". The athiests. The "internet conspiracy theorists". The devil-worshipping rock-n-rollers. The list goes on, ad infinitum.

And if you've crossed a right-winger over the years, you can rest assured that there's a caricature in there that's already been applied to you.


MDN

[maggrwaggr]

29. You're 100% right EXCEPT the leaders DON'T believe their own BS

but as you point out they're extremely good at promulgating this point of view which makes the other side look like "the enemy"

Do you really think that Ann Coulter believes what she writes? I don't. I think she chokes back laughter as she makes that shit up. "let's see how outrageous I can be this time!"

[rasputin1952]

32. Precisely...

the "LEADERS" don't believe any of this tripe; that is not their job. Their JOB is to ensure those that WANT to believe this junk, does just that, believe it.

But as I said before, hate is a learned emotion, it is not a natural state of mental awareness. You have to be taught to hate, and you have to be receptive to the teaching process. It is far easier to 'hate' something you don't want to take the time to understand. I like to call it stupidity; but those that support bush call it 'lack of intellectual curiosity'; go figure.

O8)

[MessiahRp]

59. Ann Coulter DOES believe

Actually I really think Ann does believe that shit. I think not only does she believe it but as she reads these articles that she cites and skips words to find something she considers incriminating, she actually gets more angry and more angry until she's about to burst, which is when you hear her at her most ridiculous points. That's when she will blurt out how we should rape the Earth because God told us too, or that we should kill Arabic leaders and force muslims to convert, etc.

Now it may seem far fetched to think of someone that stupid, that manipulated by their own anger, especially when one knows they passed the bar to become a lawyer and subsequently wrote books even if they are filled to the brim with lies....

But I look at it with the very old adage of having book smarts not street smarts. Sure she knows how to construct an argument even write it out on paper, but she doesn't have enough wit to grasp the reality in the stories she attacks, and thus comes to the table thoroughly uninformed. That's when she manipulates things in her head to convey her opinion of how evil we are, without a shred of actual fact or evidence to back her claims.

Rp

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[G_j]

35. and rational righteous anger?

just might put enough fire under someone's butt to actually DO something to change a situation.

[Q]

36. No one is referring to 'irrational' anger...

...self-righteous or otherwise.

- Humans tend to get angry when someone wrongs them: takes their property...rapes or otherwise harms someone they love. Murder. Robbery. Election fraud. Warmongering. War profiteering.

- A lack of anger suggests apathy and an unwillingness to seek justice in the name of the victims.

[maggrwaggr]

38. My anger is 100% rational -- here's one reason why

If somebody came into my house, took my money, beat up my wife, gave me a disease, took a shit on my sofa, and left, saying they were "helping me" and I was powerless to do anything about it ....

Well I would be experiencing 100% justified anger, don't you think?

Let's see just today what crimes we can find. Oh, here's one!

"A federal appeals court temporarily blocked some of the Bush administration's changes to the Clean Air Act, agreeing with more than a dozen states and cities that claimed the changes could cause irreparable harm to their environments and public health."

So! The Bush administration is trying to cause irreprable harm to my environment and my health!

And this is just the unreported crime du jour!!! And you're telling me my anger is irrational?

I'd give you a big FU, but that would be irrational. :)

Link to story (be sure to rate it)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=2&u=/ap/air_pollution_rules

[thisday]

41. anger does lead somewhere

it will crystallize into a nice,flinty resolve.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[jokerman93]

42. The answer is beguilingly simply and insidious

American history has been re-written. Our naturally evolving national "culture" has been hijacked and re-engineered for media distribution. The lifestyle and ethos of the generic "Republican" has been annointed as "truly American", along with a new "truly American" moral heritage and tradition -- fake as it is.

Premise:
"Liberals" are wrong. The ongoing impulse of liberal reform in American history is apparently counter to the new accepted facts of American History and tradition.

"Conservatives" (whatever that is) of course, are and have always been right -- morally, politically, socially, historically -- even if American conservativism as we know it today has never existed before.

Conservatives have already declared themselves the winners. Everyone loves a winner -- especially a fake one.

Apparently, the WWF ethos has won the day!

[Triana]

43. the 'mercantile' class has despised the working class since...

...this country was formed. The Mercantile (Republican) class has scraped off the backs of and simultaneously despised working folk for ages - in order to amass their great wealth and subsequently their great condescension for anyone who isn't one of them...

It has always been thus. It was Democrats who came up with Social Security, retirement, health insurance, 40-hour work weeks, weekends, Medicare, worker health and safety, overtime pay, employment benefits, and it was ALSO Democrats who carried forth the most successful foreign policy in this country (and it was not with 'bang-bang-shoot-em'dead' cowboy thug tactics, either) and it was Democrats who have always carried out the the most successful and sensible ECONOMIC policies in our nation's history.

Turns out 'tax-and-spend liberalism' is much better than 'tax-cut for-the-rich and spend-on-endless-war' conservatism - see current misadmistration for prime examples of that.

WHY Democrats are not out there DAILY SAYING THESE things is f*cking beyond me! They certainly have an excellent record on virtually ALL fronts with which to browbeat *resident Drinky Dumbass out of the White House. They should use the opportunity to do so NOW.

[Q]

44. CSPAN Question this morning: Is the Dem party angry?

- I've watched CSPAN about every morning (as I wake up and sip coffee) since Bush* 'took' office and to the best of my memory they've never asked a question like this about Republicans. Why? The answer is that Lamb is a conservative and comes up with these questions that smear or attempt to discredit Democrats.

- How about a question like: Does the Republican party lie? Is Bush* a puppet president and stooge for corporations?

- This is a very biased question and it shows the direction CSPAN will take in the months leading up to the election. Just one more leg of the media making sure their hero Bush* stays in office.

[Triana]

45. the whole country is angry and that's why Dean's fire appeals

...to them. Whether you're a Dean supporter or not, fact is, people are sick and tired of being out of work, sick and tired of a barely moving economy, they're sick of watching our jobs go overseas - all while bu$hco spends money like there is no end to 'fix' the mess he made in Iraq.

Meanwhile, Americans are out of work, out of money, have no healthcare, and no future.

So it isn't just Democrats who are angry. Much of the country is not too damn happy...and with good reason, too.

AND - there is no reason a Dem (any of them) can't say this to the Reich-Wingnut punditocracy. Or, that their viewers / listeners can't write or call in and take them to task for asking negatively skewed questions about Democrats.

"Are Democrats Angry". Yea. We're angry at talking heads that call themselves 'journalists' asking such stupid questions about Democrats in the face of all the serious problems and issues our nation is in the midst of. Surely they can find a more intelligent 'angle' for that question...

[rasputin1952]

49. I came in on the end of that one...

as I got up a little late this AM.

But I did try to get on, (no luck). Angry, you bet, winning, you bet. This is the most quiet I've EVER seen GOP supporters in any area I've ever lived; hell, even they're pissed.

O8)

[Q]

46. The American media has portrayed Bush* as a great leader...

...and it seems many Dems are hesitant to confront him on the issues out of fear of being labeled as 'hating' Bush* or displaying 'unreasonable' anger. Perhaps you've seen the recent 'campaign' on CSPAN and other media to label Democrats as 'angry'.

- The implication of the media is clear: George* is great and doing the best he can during a 'time of war' and Dems are just being mean to him. Expect this message to be pounded into the American conscience on a daily basis right up to the election.

[Triana]

47. Dems should...

...confront him on virtually every issue every chance they get. Let them use the 'angry' label. When they start citing bu$h's failed record on virtually every issue, the people of this nation will rightfully be angry, too, and maybe even vote the little failure out of office!

[Q]

50. Republicans should be made to 'explain' their anger for the eight years...

...of the Clinton administration. Back then they said that 'no president was above the law'. This is how they justified their constant hearings and investigations. They would tell you they're weren't angry...just seeking justice in the name of the people.

- Now they insist we're 'angry' because we're saying that no president is above the law and seek justice in the name of the people.

- Democrats face this problem now because they and the media gave Bush* a free ride from the beginning. They're having trouble confronting him on the issues they've let him slide on for so long.

[Tellurian]

52. Just thought you may want to see...

what is being propagated by the Rethuglican mainstream...

[Q]

53. Where does that piece of slime originate?

- I have to believe it's a 'joke' because no one with a working brain would fall for such childish propaganda.

- Republicans: freedom of speech for me but not for thee.

[Tellurian]

54. That roguish cartoon emanates from...

a former Israeli militarist (female) who posts at World Crossing...

http://wc5.worldcrossing.com/webx?14@@.1dddf6c1/1893

(not her in the avatar)

also this:

Their pitch boils down to this: "Pay us to help kill your enemies -- or we'll help your enemies kill you."

We're dealing with a very sick, power hungry segment of mankind...

one thing we cannot afford to do is to underestimate who and what we are up against. This type of thing is seen deep within the Republican enclaves and seen as subliminal humor..that can and will be justified when push comes to shove as to who will prevail in the end..

[Q]

55. All of this reminds me of the thugs in Florida...

...who stormed the election offices to harass, intimidate and assault election workers. The American media portrayed them as 'common citizens' enjoying their right of free speech. Never did the real story reach the general public: they were paid staffers of DC Republican officials sent to disrupt Democracy.

- Neither did the mainstream media report that Bush* personally called the thugs afterwards and thanked them for their 'help'. The connection was never made between the Bush* campaign and the dirty tricks and felonies done in their name.

- The point is that the Bushies can use these types of fascist tactics and get away with it because the corporate media WILL NOT show the extremism of the right in the context of supposedly 'free' elections. The American media is going to help Bush* get elected in 2004 and will turn a blind eye to their corruption and zealotry.

[Smokie]

58. We're dealing with a very sick, power hungry segment of mankind...

Ya got that right. These people are very sick. Having said that, I'd like to pass on a thought I had several hours before I logged in to DU.

The thought was "what is it that makes those-that-serve-Cons hate us so much?"

Could it be that since we are always looking for a better way, always reaching past the boundaries for a better solution, and always fighting against 'Authority' to achieve those ends, that we are viewed as Rebels?

And since, deep down, all men strive to be free -- to be a Rebel, and since the Cons have decided that they will not be free and not be a Rebel and they see us off having fun and progressing, that they then begin to hate us for showing them the true way to liberty while they remain engulfed by their pitiful cowardness?.

It's a thought, anyway.

[themanintheback]

60. Hate is the only rational resonse...

to the pernicious villainy of the Right. You can have your anger; I will have my hate. They committed a coup, in the 21st century, and usurped the Presidency! How can you NOT hate the evil personified by Karl Rove et al?

I am Joe's hatefilled heart. I am Joe's festering bile duct. I am the Left Wing Hatred that will boil over in 2004.

[Q]

61. Good morning, 'themanintheback'...

- It's people like you that can make a DIFFERENCE by showing up in force and voting to make sure 2004 isn't close enough to be stolen.

- I have to believe that the American people will take only so much before they respond to the dangers facing our country. Let's just hope it isn't AFTER 2004.

[newsjunkie]

62. Dean's the MAN

to help us with this anger. He will unite the country the way it should be.


edit:Woops!sorry... I think I put this in the wrong folder,but it does have to do with the subject of our anger.

[Q]

63. No one man is the 'answer'...

...and it's a mistake to even say such a thing. We must all come together to fight the fascist forces that have wrestled control of our country.

[Tellurian]

64. Dean launches a zinger...

No doubt about it...the only candidate to date unbeholden to Bush is Howard Dean. Mr. Dean tells it like it "IS"!

Dean Labels Bush 'Reckless'

DETROIT, Dec. 29 -- From Iraq to homeland security to public health, President Bush's "reckless" habit of placing "ideology over facts" has resulted in "the most dangerous administration in my lifetime," Democrat Howard Dean charged over the past two days.

In Midwest campaign stops and an interview, the former Vermont governor said developments both abroad and at home give credence to his assertion two weeks ago that the United States is "no safer" with the capture of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

"If we are safer, how come we lost 10 more troops and raised the safety alert" to the orange level, Dean said Sunday night in Ankeny, Iowa.

"All the other Democrats pounced on me and beat me up and said how ignorant I was about foreign affairs," he said. "I think most people in America agree with me today and it's only two weeks later."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39768-2003Dec29.html

example: (the dishonorable) Lieberman's assault on Dean:

"Craig Smith, Lieberman's campaign manager, said Dean's criticism "is like the mad cow calling the herd rabid."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/29/elec04.prez.dean.democrats/#