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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:13 AM
Original message
PETA and fur and factory farms and
all sorts of other stuff people here seem very interested in.

There are several articles discussing fur here. They include:

A Lifetime in a Cage

Fur Farm Expose

What We Uncovered On a "Modern" Fur Farm

lots more...

Here's an excerpt from "What We Uncovered on a "Modern" Fur Farm:

http://www.furisdead.com/animals-chilling.html

<edit>

The "Farm"

The wire cages are tiny, filthy, and encrusted with dirt, clumps of fur, and excrement. Locked inside each one is a fox, imprisoned here since birth. Many of the foxes live for years in these hideous conditions before the farmer kills them and sells their fur to make coats, cuffs, collars, and trim.

The farmer told our investigator that a humane death by an injection of barbiturate was "too expensive"—even though it costs a mere 30 cents per animal. So he uses a metal noose pole to lift each fox from the cage by the neck, shoves an electric prod into the animal’s rectum and forces a metal conductor into the animal’s mouth. A flip of a switch shoots 240 volts of electricity through the fox’s body.

According to our investigator, "The fox’s eyes usually shut and the body goes rigid. There is a crackling sound … and sometimes teeth break and fall out. … Often the anal probe falls out. When this happens, the fox convulses, shakes, and often cries."

Death doesn’t come quickly. Because the electricity does not go through and stun the brain, the foxes remain awake and feel the full excruciating force of a massive heart attack. Tom Amlung, a veterinarian and administrator for St. Clair County, Ill., animal control, says, "The animals do not lose consciousness … for one to two minutes. The time … seems like an eternity, so one can only imagine how the animal must feel experiencing this pain during this time with the electricity running from one end of his body to the other while heat builds up at the site of the electrode."

The Lab Link

The foxes were fed cast-off chickens sent by a pharmaceutical company. The chickens, who have already suffered at the hands of experimenters, arrive by the thousands, their little hunched-over bodies shoved into sealed cardboard boxes without food, water, or space to move. Our investigator documented the farmer stacking the boxes upside down in a corner of his barn and covering them with a plastic tarp to slowly suffocate the chickens. For hours, the chickens could be heard trying to escape. When the farmer cut open the boxes and pulled them out, some were still alive.

"The farmer forced the live chickens feet first into the grinder," recorded our investigator, "while they were conscious, fighting, squawking, and flapping for their lives. You could hear their screams over the roar of the engine. He would sometimes get a smirk on his face when the chickens’ final protests were cut short."

more...

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Pollution, 9/11, & Corporate Corruption issues can be used to destroy Bush
I am with you on these animal rights issues, but we have a bigger demon to fight. I lament another fur fight on the Underground.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. There's are always going to be a "bigger demon to fight"
Just like there's always a "more appropriate time to vote third party". And yet those times never seem to come around, you know, outta sight, outta mind. Meanwhile more and more animals live lives of pain and desperation, the diseases enabled by factory farms become more and more indemic, and the lives of people directly or indirectly affected by such animal cruelty contintue downhill.

So no, the time is now, no matter what demons are out there to fight. Otherwise all will be quietly swept under the rug. Besides, what's another DU fur fight? Hell, we've got a brand spanking new GD just for fur fights, what's one more over here?
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mindless Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. It was nice how the Chiefs skinned
Those pesky lions last week!!! I like Lion Fur!! :P
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. check out th meatrix
www.meatrix.com
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't think many people here support cruelty to animals
Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 02:51 PM by Rowdyboy
They just find PETA's tactics unacceptable. Many would feel more inclined to support PETA as members and/or financially were it not for their behavior. I would be unwilling to be associated with them, considering some of their activities in the last few years.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. A few things PETA could do to increase support....
Edited on Fri Dec-19-03 02:40 PM by DoNotRefill
would be to cut all ties to ALF (like giving the organization money directly, financially supporting ALF members, and acting as their spokespeople), stop engaging in terroristic behavior (like physically attacking people who wear fur, or traumatizing the children of people who wear fur), and stop euthanizing animals.

I don't have a problem with a lot of what PETA does. The aforementioned behavior bothers the hell out of me, however. It gives ALL of us a bad name.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The good they do would appear (to me anyway) to outweigh
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 01:07 AM by Karmadillo
those tactics some find objectionable. Not only have some of the tactics gained PETA enormous publicity (a necessity, fortunate or unfortunate, these days), they are often effective in ending abuses. Here's a list of some of their accomplishments over the past couple of decades. I can't think of another animal rights organization that comes close:

http://www.peta.org/about/milestones.html

1981

PETA’s undercover investigation of a Maryland laboratory results in the first-ever conviction of an animal experimenter on charges of animal abuse and the first-ever suspension of federal research funds for cruelty.

1982

PETA files the first-ever lawsuit to become the guardian of animals used in experiments.

1983

PETA closes a Department of Defense “wound lab” in which the military had planned to fire high-velocity missiles into dogs, goats, and other animals. PETA achieves the first-ever permanent ban on the shooting of dogs and cats in wound labs.

<edit>

1999

Sears, Roebuck & Co. pulls its sponsorship of Ringling Bros. after receiving a barrage of complaints from PETA members.

Cosmetics giant Mary Kay, the focus of a PETA campaign, upgrades a 10-year moratorium on animal tests by agreeing never to test its products on animals again.

A North Carolina grand jury makes history when it hands down the first-ever felony cruelty indictments against three pig-farm workers at Belcross Farm. An undercover PETA investigator had videotaped the workers beating lame pigs with wrenches and metal poles and skinning and dismembering a pig alive.

2000

Gap Inc., one of the country’s largest clothing retailers, agrees to stop using leather from India and China after PETA members protest in its stores. J. Crew, Liz Claiborne, Clarks, and Florsheim also agree to stop selling Indian and Chinese leather.

Following an intensive 11-month PETA campaign, McDonald’s agrees to require groundbreaking improvements in the treatment of the animals raised and slaughtered by its suppliers, including conducting unannounced slaughterhouse inspections and prohibiting debeaking and forced molting (starving) of laying hens.

2001

PETA settles a lawsuit with Rosie O’Donnell stemming from her comment that the leather featured on her show was approved by PETA. Said Ms. O’Donnell in an on-air correction that was viewed by millions of people: “The fact is, PETA feels no one needs to wear leather apparel at all—no one needs to hurt and kill animals for fashion anymore.”

After PETA provides March of Dimes corporate sponsors Jamba Juice, M.A.C. Cosmetics, and the Sara Lee Corporation with information about cruel animal tests funded by the March of Dimes, the companies all agree to earmark their donations strictly for non-animal programs. Sara Lee also provides information about the charity’s animal experiments to each of its 154,000 employees.

Following PETA’s five-month “Murder King” Campaign, Burger King announces that it is taking action to ease the suffering of millions of animals. The company will now conduct unannounced inspections of its slaughterhouses, require that hens be given 75 square inches of space in cages, stop purchasing hens from suppliers who starve the birds to shock their bodies into another laying cycle, and more.

2002

Thanks to more than 100 PETA protests at Safeway stores, the grocery chain becomes the first in U.S. history to improve conditions for factory-farmed animals, including unannounced slaughterhouse inspections and increased space for laying hens. Albertsonâs and Kroger follow suit.

After receiving a letter from PETA, the National Collegiate Athletic Association agrees to stop using leather basketballs in its “ March Madness” tournament in favor of cruelty-free synthetics. The Womenâs National Basketball Association has banned leather, and PETA urges the NBA to do the same.

PETA persuades 40 companies, including Nike, Reebok, May Department Stores, and DaimerChrysler, to place a moratorium on the purchase of leather from India, where animals are transported in bone-breaking conditions and skinned alive. Indian leather producers lose more than 40 million dollars in revenue.

PETA helps activists pass ordinances banning circuses with animals in Costa Rica; Windsor, Canada; Greenburgh, New York; Bogota, Colombia; S‹o Leopoldo, Brazil; Orange City, North Carolina; and Pasadena and Rohnert Park, California.

TV journalist Mar’a Celeste Arrar‡s joins PETA to launch the Spanish language Animal Times, the first-ever animal rights magazine in the U.S. dedicated to a Spanish-speaking audience. PETA also reaches out to the teen audience with the introduction of peta2.com, a Web site about animal-friendly action, featuring popular bands, athletes, and actors.

end
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Good for PETA
As long as they don't interfere with my need for a cheeseburger and a good pair of leather boots they can have at it. Viva La Difference!
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You "need" a cheeseburger and leather boots?
You need these things?

Need might not be the right word, since you'd be ok without any of that. Want is more like it. But then there's the question - do you think you have a right to them as well? More of a right than the animal that was born with them?

See, if somebody could expain to me that its ok for a feeling animal to be killed for my boots, then I could accept it, and that'd be that. Onward with the slaughter houses. Onward with the slaughter.

But nobody can ever seem to explain why its ok for an animal to die for my convenience. Or my footwear. Or my appetite.

Why is ok?
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. You need a computer?
Why is ok?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. No animals were murdered in the manufacture of my computer
what kind of bs is that now? Let's try again.

Why is it ok for animals to be put to death (murdered) for you or I to have a cheeseburger or boots? Why is it ok?
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Computer and chip manufacturing kills many animals and the environment
I suggest you read up on the matter.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yeah, I'm sure it equates with factory farming - still no answer, eh?
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 01:23 AM by nu_duer
*sigh*

there never is

edit to include question: For the third time, why is it ok for animals to be murdered for you to have a cheeseburger or boots? Why is it ok?
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. why is it ok for animals to be murdered for a cheeseburger or boots?
Because I like cheeseburgers and the best boots are made of leather.

What more justification do I need?
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Oh, yeah....if murdering animals is wrong....
then why does PETA run shelters that "euthanize" them? There are loads of "no kill" shelters out there. They work. PETA euthanizes animals because it's cost-effective. Well, OK, not really "cost effective", but it keeps more money in Ingrid's pocket.

Why is it OK for PETA to kill animals to fatten Ingrid's wallet?
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Why don't you provide us a link to back up your assertion?
There are plenty of animal rights links all over the PETA threads. Please provide substance to back up your statements, aside from liking a cheeseburger and leather boots.
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Here you go
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. The same reason it's ok....
for foxes to eat chickens and rabbits. It's part of the natural cycle of life.

Foxes could eat tofu, I suppose, if you denied them all other food sources, but it's not in their nature to do so.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. just a reminder
correcting spelling and grammer, in this case a typo, is considered rude here. :-)
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I corrected no spelling or grammer
What are you talking about?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. guess I was mistaken
I thought you were pointing out a typo,

apologies..
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
42. You are right--I'm an ex-English teacher and I find it rude to do so.
Grammar is for employment interviews, not cocktail parties and water cooler chat.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. It's simple: Food Chain
Also, we are not the only animals that use byproducts of other aninals for necessity or convenience.

I could go on for a bit, but that's sufficient IMO.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
45. Bombing Baghdad got the US plenty of publicity, too.
But it didn't win any hearts and minds, did it?

"Not only have some of the tactics gained PETA enormous publicity (a necessity, fortunate or unfortunate, these days), "
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Would we be talking animal rights if not for PETA?
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 12:44 AM by nu_duer
The issue only seems to appear in connection with some PETA action. Seems evident even on DU. If controversy is the most effective way to reach people, and draw attention to what is a myriad of heartbreaking facts, then PETA is doing just fine. More power to them.

edited to correct spelling, or typing - not clear which
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. yuppers....
giving over $50,000 to a convicted ALF arsonist...GO PETA!!!

<snicker>
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. ALF? n/t
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Animal Liberation Front
The terrorists that release lab animals to die in the wild and burn down labs.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. somehow I have hard time imagining
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 01:44 AM by G_j
that the people you mention do much of anything to prevent cruelty to animals PETA or no PETA.
Maybe I'm wrong & I hope I am, but that's just my impression.

"Many would feel more inclined to support PETA as members and/or financially were it not for their behavior."


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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. PETA and the Humane Society of the US
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 01:05 AM by Eric J in MN
The Humane Society of the US has a much bigger budget than PETA.

But when is the last time you read about anything HSUS did?

PETA gets out a message on a small budget.

And for people who say they would support an animal rights group which doesn't engage in PETA's tactics, go to:

http://www.hsus.org

and make a donation.

HSUS is a group which shares PETA's interest in animal rights, but not PETA's tactics.



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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
43. Thanks, but I already have.
In fact, several timesa a year.

I equate PETAs tactics with the radical anti-abortion movement. Neither organization makes an intelligent contribution to the issues at hand, just polarizes those on both sides.
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classics Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. I would feel much better about fur...
... if they ate the animals first.

I can understand eating an animal, but there are warmer things to wear other than skins.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Eating animals is understandable, since most people do it, but
Eating animals is understandable, since most people do it, but it's also unnecessary and wastes energy.

"Raising animals for food requires more than one-third of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the United States."

http://www.peta.org/feat/earthday/nothing_green.html
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Raising animals for food requires more than one-third of all raw materials
Most of the good things in life require sacrifice. It's going to take more than a complaint from PETA to convince people to change their ways.

I have never been confronted by any PETA member while eating meat, hunting or buying animal products. They either are not trying hard enough or they are too cowardly to confront me.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Ever notice...
How PETA only attacks old women and children for wearing animal products, but doesn't attack bikers for wearing leather?

Why is that? My guess is cowardice....
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. What would confronting you accomplish?
They put out a message for people who want to learn about animal rights.

If you're not interested, that's your decision, and there wouldn't be any point in confronting you.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. not even close.
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 03:39 AM by DoNotRefill
"They put out a message for people who want to learn about animal rights."

They're a confrontational group with ties to terrorist organizations. 2 cases in point: the throwing of paint on people wearing fur, and the "mommy is an animal killer" campaign, aimed exclusively at very young children of people who wear fur, that is going on at performances of "The Nutcracker", scheduled for later today. Here's PETA's release on it:

http://www.furisdead.com/momfur.html

And here is the actual flyer they'll be handing out to small children:

http://www.furisdead.com/mommykills300.pdf

How can these unsolicited actions be seen as giving people who want to learn about animal rights "a message"? Do the children they're going to traumatize ASK to be traumatized?

PETA has decided to copy the tactics of a "near and dear" lunatic-fringe right-wing whacko group, Operation Rescue. Ask yourself this: How would you feel if Operation Rescue or that crazy Phelps person went around giving very young children propaganda fliers disguised as comic books with pictures of abortion residue in them and captions saying "Mommy killed this baby! Hide from Mommy, you're next! You'd be up in frigging ARMS over it.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Just throw out age-inappropriate lit. in that circumstance (nt)
nt
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
30. Heartbreaking - it makes me sick
to see someone wearing fur. I saw an undercover video of a mink farm once and it made me cry.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
46. Me too. But PETA's tactics are reprehensible.
My dad was diagnosed with colon cancer about the same time they attacked Giuliani. When a PETA acquaintance started gloating about that campaign in front of me (she knew my dad's diagnosis, BTW), I burst into tears then, too. Funny, no one at the table lended her their support.

My dad died in May, btw.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
37. After I became a vegetarian, I gave away all my furs.
The only one who wears a fur in my house is my dog. When it gets really cold outside, I have a rabbit fur vest that she wears when we go for a walk.
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Pontus Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. The fur hat I bought in Russia...
keeps me warmer than any other hat I have. So what?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. So what?? Because I don't believe in wearing animal pelts any longer.
And why don't you read the articles at the beginning of this thread? And that's why.
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. What about leather shoes?
Are those pelts ok with you? What about using Mink oil to keep the leather soft and protected?
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Stop being so obtuse -
the article is not about wearing fur so much as the methods used to farm it. I can't stand it when people display this defensive "so what" attitude. Nobody's trying to take away your bacon and sausage, you can relax. Sheesh.
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prisonerseven Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Your scorn is misdirected
The post above mine is the one that said "so what" not mine. Please direct your displeasure to the offending post. Thank you.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Really? Then explain this post:
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