Anyone know who's profiting from all these flu advertising, um, reporting?

[jobycom]

Just curious, but the mass histeria the media is obviously trying to create over the flu vaccine this year is way out of bounds with the predictions of how bad the outbreak will be. If you listen closely, the media will sometimes add at the end of the story that this year's season COULD be worse than average. Now some are talking about an epidemic.

At first I thought it was just a case of the media being too lazy to write a new story so falling back on the annual flu vaccine shortage story. But they've hyped it beyond reason, visiting clinics, micing people sneezing and coughing for their clever little background noises, and pulling out the big gun of terrifying parents by talking about dead kids (and yes, that does work on me, too).

And then there was the news this morning. 100,000 new vaccines on the way, and 150,000 more pediatric vaccines to follow. This after stories earlier this week that it would be impossible to get more vaccines until after the flu season ended.

Who's making money from this? It's all serving to create a fad and drive up prices, and no one has yet demonstrated that this year's season is any worse than any other. Is this coming from Bush, the CDC, the corporate media itself? Anyone know? Someone is profiting from a deliberate attempt to increase desire and cost for this product.

And for the record, anyone who recognizes my name knows I'm not a tin-hatter (I even believe Oswald shot Kennedy). I just see an advertising campaign and forced fad to rival Spuds McKenzie.

[HuckleB]

1. It's the perfect news story for the age.

It gets people worried and excited, so they tune in day after day. Yet, no reporter has to actually do much work. A few phone calls, an Internet check, and maybe a visit to a sick kid at the hospital and away you go. It's the type of easy "journalism" that the media feeds on in this day and age.

[TNDemo]

2. I think the drug companies are raking it in.

People die from the flu every year. I don't think this year is any worse but it is just getting constant media exposure. I think this guarantees a higher price for the vaccine and big orders for next year.

[bearfartinthewoods]

9. more than that!!!!!!

last year, 10 million doses of the vacinne had to be destroyed because they weren't used/sold. i think i heard that each dose cost ten bucks to make, so by panicing people into the DR.s office they guarantee they won't loose 100 million dollars as they did last year on unsold stocks AND practicly guarantee that they can sell tons more next year because everyone will remember or will be constantly reminded , by the media. about this year's 'shortage' which is actually 3 million more available doses than last year.....

create the demand.....the name of the game and it didn't cost a penny for advertising.

[ourwinter]

3. Have been wondering

the same damn thing

it is the flu people -- gimme a break

[HuckleB]

6. Do you know anything about the history of the flu?

Certain mutations tend to cause mass deaths now and then. It's not surprising that a strain which develops after the vaccine is created and an early flu season would turn public health officials a bit tense.

[newyawker99]

51. Hi ourwinter!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[soothsayer]

4. medimmune, for one

they make that flu-mist, which contains 3 strains of LIVE viruses, and which I believe the fda found to be too dangerous and would not approve. Suddenly---from what I hear---a guy from the FDA joins medimmune and voila! It's approved.

Then walmart freaks out (cuz you can't give it to people or are sick or pregnant or young or old, or who will be around people with suppressed immunity for 3 weeks) and cancels it, and the stock tanks. now that there's a 'shortage' of flu vaccine (despite the fact that the shots are all for the wrong strain) the stock is soaring.

[HuckleB]

7. There is one new strain, the others are still around.

And those are covered by the flu shot. They didn't just disappear when the new strain hit the scene.

[jobycom]

8. Is medimmune public or private? Is it owned by a parent corp?

If not, I wonder who's investing in the soaring stock.

[The White Rose]

5. The new nasal vaccine didn't sell. Now it is.

eom.

[radwriter0555]

25. Yeah, I think that's it right there.... prop up sales on the really

expensive stuff, get it off the shelves.

[NJCher]

10. FWIW

Just spoke with a relative who is a physician at Harvard and he can't even get any. Anybody who knows the medical profession knows they take care of their own first. He's worried about his kids getting the flu and is phoning around, trying to find some vaccine.


Cher

[amazona]

11. yes, it's Flu Mist, a new but ineffective product

The product which is less effective than the shot was doing poorly in the marketplace. It is such a poor product that it is not recommended for young children, people over 50, or people with respiratory issues who must have protection against the flu.

Thereby, by raising flu hysteria, the middle-aged and younger adults who would not normally get any flu vaccine are being encouraged to pay for this expensive ($40 to $80) and likely pretty much completely ineffective product.

If you really need protection from the flu, you should have gotten a shot...except, wait a minute, this year's shots (and FluMist) are for the wrong strain anyway. The flu shot itself does not provide complete protection to the elderly, and this year will provide even less protection because it is for the wrong strain.

MSNBC.com has been on the front lines of flu hysteria. It has carried a story every day, to the extent where my local newspaper picked up a piece about an 82 year old woman in Colorado dying of flu. By contrast, I have known personally many older people to die of flu in other years in the greater New Orleans area, and they don't make the papers for it.

Only today did MSNBC.com finally admit in their daily flu rant that we don't know if an unusual number of children are being killed by this flu. It is anecdotal. No kidding. When our schools have been closed in Louisiana for flu, which has happened in several years, it is the back pages of the local paper. Not front page news. And yet suddenly it's a big deal when it happens in another state?

I believe you are correct to be suspicious. It is a shame that the flu shot can't provide complete protection for those most at risk, the children and the elderly, but so it is. Getting all hysterical and blaming the middle-aged for not getting their shots -- MSNBC.com actually had an article blaming the spread of flu on middle-aged people not getting shots -- is ridiculous. The flu is caused by a virus. Not by middle-aged people refusing to get shots that may or may not do anything anyway.

We are back to the days of believing in witchcraft and voodoo, near as I can tell.

If saying in plain language what I see in front of my eyes makes me a tin-hatter, so be it.

My doctor said middle-aged people in good health do not need this vaccine.

[RichardRay]

12. Sorry guys, you're wrong on the facts...

unless you want to enlist the CDC and the State of Wyoming's and Colorado's doctors, and the entire work force of the place I work in your conspiracy. It is worse than it has been. There have been nearly as many cases in a single Wyoming city so far this year as there were in the entire winter last year. Cities and towns in the mountains in Colorado are experiencing the same numbers.

It would also be helpful if you could look in crystal ball and predict the flu strains earlier since vaccine production takes 6 monthes minimum and 7 in more normal conditions. It would be helpful if you could tell the vaccine producers which growth strains are likely to be productive and which ones will fail miserably to produce an useful quantity of vaccine. They made a guess this year as to which strain would be needed and what they could produce - they were wrong.

The only way to produce enough vaccine in enough varieties to cover an event like this is to have the government subsidise the vaccine producers each year to over produce by a substantial amount, or to have the government get into the business of producing vaccines. I think both of those ideas are worth considering, but I don't know where the funds come from in the short term. (I know, a long term structural change in the way we run the country would take care of it - I'm talking about this year or next.)

[msmcghee]

15. Thanks for the facts.

Sometimes a reality check is a useful thing. ;-)

[kalian]

24. Whatever...

I work in a school district and NOTHING of the sort is being seen.
Kids are not dropping out like flies do to the flu. Far from it.
Not even teachers are sick.

I am very curious to know the real numbers.

BTW...I live in Colorado Springs.

[Snow]

39. I work for the largest health care provider in southern calif,

and we're seeing a ton of flu cases - primary care docs are being asked to ease off on sending swabs to the labs, because the labs can't handle the load. There're a lot of very sick people out there; we're seeing them. However, your mileage may vary.....

[jobycom]

48. But how many of those would have stayed home before?

I've never gone to the doctor for the flu, and most people I know haven't, but with reports that this year's flu might be fatal, maybe more people are going, whereas before they would have just stayed home.

[Snow]

49. That's a good point -

have you considered a career in epidemiology? You just described referral bias rather nicely. But in answer to your question, dunno. We'll be able to tell after it's over, but not right now.

[jobycom]

47. I've HEARD all that, but not seen any evidence

I know how the flu vaccine works, how long it takes, the combination of strains it's supposed to have. I know that the early numbers in a FEW places are high. However, in any season you will have some places with stronger outbreaks, some with weaker.

Anecdotally, I haven't seen any flu around here, and that's odd for this time of year. The people who normally get it at work and amongst my friends haven't gotten it yet. My kids' schools have had no problems. I know that's anecdotal, but so is your example of two states and a few cities.

Even the media, when they bother to report numbers instead of just showing long lines that they themselves created, say that this MAY be above AVERAGE. Nothing so far indicates anything unusual, not in any of their numbers, not in their evidence, except the run on the flu vaccine-- which wasn't a story until they made it one.

Reminds me of Newsweek (I think, one of the magazines) running a cover story the week Harry Potter was released, asking if it would become the biggest movie ever. Ticket sales and reviews already showed it was a bit below expectations, but they ran the story anyway. Of course, Newsweek (or whichever it was) was owned by Time Warner, who also owned WB studios, which released Harry Potter. The craze has followed the news reports, not the other way around.

[Padraig18]

13. It's not mass hysteria.

This mutation of the flu virus is especially virulent, and has killed many people already.

[Red State Rebel]

22. My brother in law just got out of the hosptal from the flu,..he told me

They said they had over 200 people in the hospital with the flu and there was a 20 year old girl they didn't think was going to make it.

This is metro St. Louis area - they have also had 2 local schools close more than 30% of their students had called in sick.

[bicentennial_baby]

23. Yep

Here in MA, a 19 year old boy in Worcester died from it last week. Scary stuff!

[Palacsinta]

14. 80 bucks a pop for flu mist

around here. My daughter's pediatrician has vaccine for kids three and under. 5 years and up, one has the option of using the mist, but it's not covered by insurance. When they recieve more vaccine, they'll begin vaccinating the 5 and ups.

[splat]

18. Pneumonia rampant from this one

This flu leads to complications. I know of four people who've had the flu turn into pneumonia, two of them were hospitalized. (None were elderly, two were children, none infected close relatives, even with the flu.)

This isn't the flu the vaccine was developed for.

But who knows what's in the germs any more, and how they spread.

[newyawker99]

52. Hi splat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[msmcghee]

16. I got one of the few remaining shots . .

. .at my local hospital last week for $10. My partner was busy and decided to come in a few days later. But now they are out of vaccine. She is over 50 so she can't use the mist anyway.

[morgan2]

17. who the hell needs a flu vaccine?

I know some old people and small children die of it occasionally but what normal people actually really need it.

[HuckleB]

19. Health care workers, child care workers, teachers, parents, librarians,

bus drivers, aiplane pilots, flight stewards, ...

[bicentennial_baby]

21. Me, my whole family

My father is immuno-suppressed, and if I got it, I could kill him.

[msmcghee]

30. Sometimes I wonder if I'm really . .

. . on the right planet.

[Danocrat]

20. My theory

I heard a news report that the two manufacturers of flu vaccine, Chiron Corp. in emeryville, Ca and I forget the other one, threw away 12 million doses of vaccine last year. How much does a dose of flu vaccine cost? $10 $20 $30 They probably decided that was not going to happen again so they "leaked" to the media a story about the worst flu in years. 35,000 people in the U.S. die of flu related problems per year. The fear-inducing media has highlighted what, about 100? It's all about money. Just my opinion deduced from bits of news and adding greedy corporations.

[newyawker99]

53. Hi Danocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kalian]

26. I find something fishy about this "flu vaccine"....

Is it really for the "flu" or is it for something else. Just
remember folks...just last year they were trying to make it
mandatory for EVERYBODY to get a shot against smallpox. I'm sorry,
but I loathe our government and I do not trust them.

Stop watching the goddamn propaganda machine.

[bicentennial_baby]

28. Hehe

Trust me, you'd know if it was a smallpox vax...That is no walk in the park, believe me.

[Snow]

40. Smallpox vax is not an injection or a mist,

it's more like cat scratches.....

[bandy]

44. That very thought

crossed my mind this morning for no apparent reason. Our doc said sorry we have no more vaccine so we went to a clinic (out of the phone book). I went and got my grandaughter from school and took her to the clinic (an off the beaten path kind of place). Was greatful for the shot at $20 ea. but then I got to thinking - they say 30 people have died but the average for one year is 36,000??????? Not to mention this KBR thing that is going on that * seems to be embarrist about (nothing there folks). Then the fact that the manufacturers lost sooooooo much money last year. What is one to believe?
BTW, our doc says 2 days later - we have vaccine. Go figure!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. Some points to be considered...

1) The 1918 Influenza Pandemic killed roughly 50 million people worldwide. It was a strain of flu that was particularly lethal. Medical personnel have been stating for several years that we are past due for another pandemic of that nature.

2) Influenza mutates pretty rapidly. That's why we see different strains popping up nearly every year. We've been lucky that we have not been subjected to a really bad strain since 1918.

3) Vaccine makers rely on data from the last four to five years of influenza outbreaks and prepare their vaccines based on the best possible coverage.

4) The vaccine makers are not profiting more than any other year because they always prepare a certain number of doses based on the previous year's cases.

5) Those doses are just about completly used, and the vaccine makers have no more vaccine for this year in the pipeline.

[bicentennial_baby]

29. Thank you

for injecting (pun intended) a little sanity into the debate.

[kalian]

32. Sure...but that 1918 "Influenza" pandemic...

started ON US MILITARY INSTALLATIONS...and then spread from there.
And BTW, the concept of the "virus" wasn't discovered and
documented until the mid-1930s....

[kalian]

34. Something else to ponder....

How bad is this "flu" in other parts of the world?
I read an article about a week ago which stated that France was
having major issues with it...but nothing else.
How about Asia? How are they doing?

Given the world's transportation system, one would think that this
has already carried over to other parts by now. Yet it hasn't.
The winter months in the southern hemisphere were relatively
"flu-normal"...nothing out of the norm.

Just a thought...

[jobycom]

50. So where'd they come up with the extra 250,000 doses reported this morning

BTW, I know all the details you list, but they are all true every year. Nothing this year so far indicates that this is worse than normal. In fact, the one strain that keeps getting mentioned as the potentially lethal one was not projected to be present this season, and isn't included in the vaccine, which means that the reports aren't based upon projections over the last few years.

As far as epidemics go, there are any number to look at as devestating to society, from various forms of the Plaque to the flu, to a variety of new ones that pop up every year. There will come another one some day, maybe soon. But there is no evidence so far this year that anything above normal is happening, aside from the rush on flu vaccinations.

[BeFree]

31. You've heard of 'Soaps', right?

Instead of calling it 'The News' it should be called what it is:

'The Drugs.'

Some interesting facts in this thread.
Funny how something so small can create so much havoc. And generate so much spending.

Just wish someone could tell me if air pollution has had any impact.

[ecstatic]

33. They say about 40,000 DIE EVERY YEAR from flu

I had not thought of this question but you're absolutely right to question who exactly is driving this frenzy. I've seen the stories, which are sad, but they're immediately followed by reporters saying that around 40,000 people EVERY YEAR die from flu related illness. So why the hell hasn't the media jumped on this before? And are they going to cover every case this year?

[kalian]

36. Ummm....just about the same numbers as car accidents....

So, what's the biggy? :shrug:

[arewethereyet]

37. while every death is a loss

most of them are folks in poor health to begin with. might be flu for this one, pneumonia for that one but their numbers are all close to being up.

[arewethereyet]

35. what I find most interesting is the new spray flu vaccine

it costs about 4 times what the injectable one does. there is plenty around. the "news" is advertising that this is a pretty good solution to alleviate the shortage. moreover they are saying how the manufacturers are hardly making a dime on it as they are trying to make this breakthrough available to all.

I think we all know that they made a little less injectable than they knew they would need, right ?

And for good measure its been widely "reported" before the first case that this would be a bad year for flu. Less widely reported is that this vaccine doesn't appear to be the one we needed for the flus in fashion this year.

Can you see why I have NEVER gotten one of these things ? Is it shocking that I have NEVER had the flu since these things became available ? And I'm not a super health-conscience / exersize junkie / vegan sort of person.

[kalian]

38. Its more expensive....

because it doesn't "hurt" the patient receiving the shot.
Still, I am VERY suspicious of these vaccines. Something is not
right.

[pansypoo53219]

41. sharks, west nile, SARS, abduction of young blondes

typical media whore mongering. unfortunately drug companies are making big $.

[Snow]

42. Okay, let me take a stab at this....

yes, there really is a frightening outbreak going on. I think enough people have posted to that effect already that I don't need to elaborate. I think what many of you skeptics are reacting to is the regular media's coverage of it - it's awful, as usual, and you're reasonably wondering about the media's motives and even whether there really is an epidemic. Well, as a working epidemiologist who, thank God, doesn't have to rely on the mass media to hear what's going on with epidemics, I can reassure you that we do indeed have a serious situation. That does not mean the mass media aren't making a mess of things. Let me present you an excellent example from a month or so ago. We had fires here in southern california - they were real, they were very serious, people died. What was the mass media's coverage like? Well, it basically tried to sell papers - or attract viewere - it was hyped, inaccurate, careless. Check this very good link, from here on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/11/15_burns.html

What was the mass media's motive in presenting the story like this? Dunno - but that's my take on how the flu epidemic is being presented as well. Please don't let the lousy coverage dissuade you from the fact that there really is something dangerous going on.

[prolesunited]

43. This is just the tip of the iceburg

We have been experiencing vaccine shortages and manipulation by the pharmaceutical industry for the past several years. This is based primarily on low profit margins and stringent production requirements.

This is free market capitalism at its best and again people die. Government intervention is necessary or we will soon see an emergence of diseases we once thought had vanished in the U.S. This is a serious public health issue.

Here's some interesting reading.

Ready for some lockjaw?

There's no profit in the tetanus vaccine business, so a rare and hideous disease may soon strike more Americans.

The result is a looming public health crisis -- the first manifestation of which appeared last month, when the four companies producing a strain of flu vaccine all fell victim to manufacturing problems, causing widespread shortages. Like the flu vaccine shortage, the Wyeth-Ayerst affair is a case study of what can go wrong -- and will continue to go wrong -- in the vaccine industry.

Vaccine manufacturing is one of the few industries in which having a monopoly on a product doesn't guarantee limitless price inflation. Sixty percent of the tetanus vaccine is bought by a single client: the CDC, which in turn supplies the vaccine to low-income and Native American children, Medicaid patients and the uninsured. The CDC needs the vaccine, but in a perfect example of well-meaning legislation gone all wrong, it is forbidden by law to pay market price.

http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/03/08/tetanus/index.html?pn=1


Vaccine shortage a disturbing trend
NEW YORK, Dec. 8 (UPI) -- The Wall Street Journal Monday called the nearly instant shortage of flu vaccine caused by a bad influenza season a sign of a deeper, more chronic problem.

The Journal described the shortage as the malfunctioning of the small but vital marketplace for preventive vaccines in America.

The influenza-vaccine shortage, reported Friday by the only two suppliers of flu shots, is the eighth major shortage of preventive vaccines in the United States since the beginning of 2000.
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20031208-102340-8185r.htm

Vaccine shortage threat to children
Millions at risk as companies switch to more profitable products

Shortages of crucial vaccines, caused by drug companies shifting resources into more profitable lines, are stalling efforts to protect millions of children from fatal diseases, it emerged yesterday.

Vaccinations for childhood diseases such as diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough or pertussis (DTP), which killed thousands of children in Britain before universal immunisation, are no longer very profitable for pharmaceutical companies. Once they are out of patent, competition begins between companies to make and sell them at low cost, slashing the profit margins.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,844062,00.html

[SheilaT]

45. Every year

for the last twenty or so it is said in September or October that it's going to be a bad year for the flu and everyone needs to get their shots. Originally, only people over 65 were supposed to get shots, and then if you were over 55 and then if you didn't want to put up with the possibility of getting the flu, and now they're saying everyone, including children and infants.

The truth is, as several others have already pointed out, about 36,000 people die every single year from flu complications. I expect a significant percentage of them got the vaccine.

Yes, it is always tragic when an individual dies. It's much more so when it's a young person, and it seems as if so far an unusual number of children have died from the flu, but maybe they're being overreported, and more kids die from it than we've been aware of.

Here in the Kansas City area I haven't personally noticed a lot of flu out there. My 11th grader tells me it's not going around his school at this point. My husband isn't telling me people are sick at work. Of course, that's also only anecdotal reporting and relatively worthless.

[Snow]

46. That's not true

on several points. Flu outbreaks don't get hyped every year; some years we say that it looks like a mild year. And it even usually gets reported that way.

Second, a "significant percentage" of people who die from flu complications were not vaccinated people - be careful of statements like that without solid figures to back them up. There are vaccinated people who get very sick and die from flu, but they're not a significant percentage, and they tend to be people who had health problems already - immune-compromised, ruined lungs from smoking, and the like.

I'm glad you realize that what any individual observes, even a primary care doc, is anecdotal, and doesn't mean much unless you have a good grasp of the population at risk that you're seeing cases from - and that can be very tough.

[stickdog]

54. Don't get scammed. When vaccines list their formulations like foodstuffs

under severe penalties for false disclosure and subject to verifiable scientific scrutiny is the next time I'll consider a vaccination.