Is Kerry responsible for the Dean/Osama ad?

[AWD]

I don't think he is. I've seen overzealkous Kerry supporters capable of anything though...so perhaps. But an honorable man like Kerry, I doubt it.

However, what I REALLY think hgappened is this.

Kerry's staffer struck a deal with Kerry. He "quit" (wink, wink) and joined Dean's campaign undercover. Then he convinced Dean to create an ad against himself that would piss off people. Then, he used a time machine to go back in time and introduce Dean to Stalin. That's why all those pictures of Stalin have a very familiar look to them.

Just kidding about that last part....but I wouldn't think Kerry would be this low down. Supporters, maybe. But not JK.

[oasis]

1. No, John Kerry is class personified. He would be furious at anyone

who would present to him the idea for such an ad.

edit to subtitute FURIOUS for fuming.

[dfong63]

20. Kerry's other attacks on Dean don't show a lot of class,

... plus his stubborn refusal to recant his IWR vote, doesn't show a lot of class either.

[oasis]

24. Kerry attacks Dean, Dean attacks Kerry, they attack Bush. The particular

ad in question lacks class.

Many don't understand the complexities of the Kerry's IWR vote. That has nothing to do with class.

[eileen_d]

2. Well, DU as judge and jury

is already preparing to execute both Kerry and Gephardt for their crime. Thanks for the last minute call from the governor! :hi:

[pruner]

4. LOL

:)

[xultar]

50. Yes, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! n/t

[frustrated_lefty]

3. From a Deanie

Kerry wouldn't do that. It does carry the stench of Gephardt, but I'll wait for evidence.

Kerry is a good man, he wouldn't do this shit.

[jpgray]

7. Waiting for evidence is, in any case, a good idea.

I wouldn't believe this of Kerry, at least. Any candidate does have some overzealous supporters, and a candidate can't be in control of them all. Kerry has been called some vicious names on here from various candidate supporters, including "war criminal", etc. So yes, it may be just over-zealous supporters. Obviously they are not very politically clever, since this will just mobilize Dean's base and cast a pall over Kerry and Gep, no matter if they had something to do with it or not. We have to remember that not all supporters of any candidate are that candidate's best representation--you have a few who do more harm (to everyone) than good, as in this case.

[Walt Starr]

30. I believe Kerry had a hand in it

He could change my mind by denouncing the ad.

[creativelcro]

52. same here. If he denounces it I'd believe Kerry did not have a hand in it

[WilliamPitt]

34. My bet: It was the DLC.

[Walt Starr]

35. If it was, I'm done with the Democratic Party

This is some seriously fucked up shit and qualifies as the Whigging of the Democratic Party if a group as influential as the DLC did it.

[Octafish]

36. I smell a skunk.

Here's his picture:



Herr Röverer considers what's next.

Courtesy of the Bartcop Collection.

[Don Claybrook]

5. I'll take the high road

No, I don't think Kerry had anything to do with this ad. I think Kerry is a good man and, though competitive, I don't think he would've approved of this.

I also expect that in the coming days he'll strongly denounce this particular ad and that he'll work to beat Howard Dean above-board and not in this disgusting, dishonest, and underhanded way.

[Hep]

6. There's a reason this guy doesn't work for Kerry anymore

perhaps this is it. I highly doubt Kerry is behind it.

[John_H]

33. Can someone point out the comparison between OBL and Dean?

The ad is shit. But saying it compares Dean to OBL makes people look like they're in utter panic mode about the ad's charge--that Chimp will eat Dean alive on national security issues.

I hope that Dean is lining up some Foreign Policy heavy hitters to get on board in case he wins the nomination.

[IndianaGreen]

51. The underlying message is that to oppose the war is to support terrorism

that's why this sort of ad must be disavowed by every Democratic candidate, or else face the consequences of permanently alienating millions of antiwar voters.

Is that what the DNC wants, that's what they will get, together with defeat in 2004!

[SadEagle]

8. I think there is some evidence for that.

(i.e. Kerry not being involved)
After all the guy was an associate of the fired campaign manager, no? Makes me wonder what exactly that guy was fired for, anyway.

[tsipple]

9. Kerry's Thrown Some Elbows, But...

I don't see him doing this. But he really must denounce this ad. It's completely beyond the pale. I hope he'll do it within the next 12 hours. Gephardt as well.

And we all should. (I do emphatically.) It's a piece of filth.

[KittyWampus]

10. Intriguing Who-Done-It ... Hope It Wasn't One Of Our Fine Candidates

[slinkerwink]

11. perhaps it's Gephardt?

Gephardt pretty much did the same tactic when he ran against the late Paul Simon and compared him to Ronald Reagan.

[IronLionZion]

12. that's so out of character

and he's not responsible for what a former supporter does. I say innocent until proven guilty is the best policy here.

[curse10]

13. Insulting that you would even suggest such a thing

n/t

[AWD]

15. Sorry....

...I didn't mean to insult you when I called Kerry "an honorable man" and said I thought he had nothing to do with it.

I'll try to be more thoughtful in the future.

[curse10]

16. Then why ask the question to begin with?

if you don't think he has anything to do with it, then why even ask?

[AWD]

17. It's part of a massive conspiracy

to piss you off.

I asked to get others' opinions. This is actually one of the purposes of a message board, believe it or not.

And it turns out that most of the people agreed with me that Kerry is above this.

Next time, I'll blame Dean or Clinton's penis. they seem to be the whipping boy that is more widely accepted.

Geez, I say something nice about Kerry, I still get shit for it. Can't please certain types, I guess.

[curse10]

18. this isn't about me

it's about Dean supporters attempts to pin this on one of the candidates in the race. It's as shameless as the ad itself.

[AWD]

22. I said HE WASN'T responsible

....go back and read it again if you need to.

[drfemoe]

19. He has everything to do with it

[regnaD kciN]

41. Then you're too-easily insulted...

...IMO.

:eyes:

[DFLforever]

14. I think it's Gephardt, Kerry and maybe other candidates as well

in order to derail Dean, hopefully as soon as Iowa...gives new meaning to Dean's charge of some of them being 'Bush-lite'.

I think this is why Gore jumped in with his endorsement at the time he did...to influence undecideds before this shit hit the fan...I would guess the Dean staff knew it was coming, though probably not all of the details.

edit: typo

[Jacobin]

21. No. Martians did it. What would Kerry have to gain from dissing Dean?

Didn't Smirky distance himself from the ads in SC in 2000 calling McCain a wife beater and a whatever he was called?

[Eloriel]

23. Jeff

Kerry is not an honorable man the way i define that, He is every bit as capable of dirty tricks as Gephardt. There are plenty of people here at DU who are Kerry supporters and do believe in him. But a while back I did some research, and I didn't like what I found.

One piece I think you can appreciate for yourself -- he's a class A narcissist. One of the Boston columnists calls him "Live shot Kerry" because he nevermisses a live camera shot. Now think about some of the recent photo ops he's arranged for himself -- silly, ridiculous, pompous, and mostly counyer-productive: shooting pheasants, playing hockey, wind surfing, and my all time favorite counter productive photo stunt: Harleying into the Tonight Show.

Now, it doesn't take much to extrapolate from other narcissists we have known and loved, e.g., Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly (Bush takes narcissism right on over to sociopath, so I rarely think of him in these terms), that nothing is ever their fault, and self-interest is at the bottom of everything they do. They have little real empathy for others, but are often able to fake it. I've never seen Kerry say anything I've felt he was completely sincere about. He's also willing to fudge the truth or outright lie, and of course the rules don't apply to him, AND there's a sense of entitlement they all share (in Kerry's case it was most recently about the nomination).

I'm sorry, none of this is included in my definition of honorable.

[drfemoe]

25. nailed it

my perception exactly. Thanks for saying it so well.

[Octafish]

26. Kerry is an honorable man, who's served his country his adult life.

By any fair definition, Kerry is honorable. So what if a Boston columnist is filled with jealousy? Kerry risked his life in Vietnam for his fellow servicemen. So he likes a camera? Kerry risked his whole career by protesting to end the war when he came home. So he rides a Harley? The guy's taken on BCCI, the Iran-Contra drug smugglers like Ollie North and who knows who else in the BFEE. He isn't afraid of a motorcycle, or comparisons to lesser men.

Speaking of lesser men: The living definition of dishonorable is the draft dodger Howard Dean. Before he became an ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker, Ho-Ho did all he could to keep out of Vietnam, showing up at the draft physical with a note from his orthopedist and an X-ray from his radiologist. After saying the right things, he got off with a deferment. His back improved because he spent that entire winter in Vale, Colorado, skiing.

What's even more dishonorable, Coward Dean didn't even bother to protest against the war. What did he care? Someone else could go fight it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

28. Kerry IS a narcissist

I noticed this about him months ago. That is the same personality issue Bush has that makes him so offensive. In all honesty, I think that has a lot to do with why a lot of people are really put off by Kerry's demeanor. A lot of narcissists have accomplished plenty of good things in their lives, but they tend to do things because they crave attention and admiration rather than simply because it's the right thing to do.

[Octafish]

31. Narcissists don't receive 3 Purple Hearts...

... a Bronze Star with combat "V" and a Silver star for heroism under fire. Narcissists are cowards who worry about their own hides before everyone else's, like Smirk joining the Texas ANG and Ho-Ho hosing the draft board for a bad back.

[oasis]

37. Long ago, those wounded in service to their country were honored and

respected. Many who support Kerry align themselves with those traditional values which have kept America strong and secure.

Sadly, our society today is breeding a generation of insensative individuals who have no appreciation for people of character. Thank goodness for John Kerry and others who have actually done something real in their lives.

[KaraokeKarlton]

43. Yes, they can

They will, as I said before, many good things, even great things. Whether or not a person is a narcissist isn't about what they do or don't do...it's about WHY they do it. A narcissist will do things for attention and recognition, NOT just out of the goodness of their heart. They have alterior motives in all they do. They might end up doing the right thing, but they aren't doing it just because it's right, they do it because they have something to gain from doing it.

[Eloriel]

49. Yes, they absolutely can -- and do -- do great things,

-- tho not always, and not consistently, and most often it's self-interest motivating it all -- but then they never let you forget about it for a minute or stop congratulating themselves about it and usually demanding your congratulations too.

That's what enabled that Boston columnist to refer to Kerry "who has served as a Vetnam Vet for the last 30 years."

I think someone in his campaign may have pulled him back from his insistence on mentioning it every damn time he has a chance (it really did end up looking as self-serving as it was), and if so I'm glad. Those of us who lived thru that era are an aging population now, and younger folks aren't as impressed as Kerry is about it.

There were a lot of war heroes during that decade or so -- you don't hear John McCain or Maxz Cleland talking about it endlessly. Plus, I think Kerry was simply demonstrating his tone deaf political instincts -- not everbody wanted to be continuously reminded of all the pain of that war. So many kinds of pain -- few were left without having been touched by the pain of one kind or another of that war.

[KaraokeKarlton]

61. My Uncle has all those same medals and then some

He was in both Vietnam and Korea. He, and all other Vietnam Vets I know prefer NOT to talk about it. It's very painful and upsetting for most who were there. You don't hear Clark yammering on and on about it either.

Another hint as to Kerry's narcissism is the whole medal tossing incident and his anti-war activities. And now, when he thinks it serves his interests, he's all proud of fighting in Vietnam again. He goes with whatever the political wind of the moment seems to be. I've been saying for a long time that he's all about image and that he isn't even running because he genuinely wants to job and to do the work it entails. He's only running for the influence, power and attention the position would give him. He just wants to be the center of attention and does come across as if it's owed to him. It's really quite disturbing if you actually think about it.

[Octafish]

65. Your uncle is a brave man.

Too bad it didn't rub off on Coward Dean.

PS: Please thank your uncle on his service. Because of the sacrifice of the men and women in our armed forces, ours is a free nation.

[KaraokeKarlton]

71. My uncle is a Dean supporter

and he thinks it was stupid to get off track from finding Osama by going back to Iraq.

[Lobo_13]

47. Medals, Schmedals

A Purple Heart just means you got wounded, something you don't really get a choice in. And a Bronze Medal means you have a survival instinct. Just serving is something to respect people for, but how you conduct yourself as a human being is more important than medals, because they are more an indication of circumstance, not quality of character. Ollie North had a whole chest full of medals.

That being said, I don't think Kerry was behind it, and I don't think it has anything to do with honor. If I remember correctly, before Kerry fired his campaign manager, he was basically the all Dean, all the time candidate. There was at least a week where he was on tv and didn't even mention himself one time. It was so bad that three quarters of the way thru one interview, the reporter asked if he was going to say anything about HIS policies and plans. The problem was that he just wasn't getting traction with any of it.

So my conjecture is that Kerry fired the guy because his strategy of attacking Dean every time he opened his mouth was a miserable failure and that guy just pranced off into the wilderness and decided to do things his way, anyway. Kerry didn't have anything to do with this ad because he knows it's a failing strategy that he is better off saving for a last resort. Oh, waitaminute, he's back to attacking him again.

[Octafish]

64. Interesting perspective. Kerry's medals denote heroism.

The guy volunteered for the dangerous missions and didn't lose a single man under his command. He ventured up and down the Mekong Delta doing some real work on behalf of Uncle Sam's efforts to defeat the Viet Cong and NVA.

John Kerry also demonstrated heroism when he returned from Vietnam, helping organize the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. After Kerry testified before the US Senate, Nixon put him on his "Enemies List," where he joined John Lennon and the other people working to end the war.

In his Senate career, John Kerry investigated and busted BCCI and the Iran-Contra drug runners working for Ollie North. For his trouble, Reagan and Bush did all they could to destroy him.

It's not all that odd to think someone who's done so much would be the object of such harrasment from the BFEE. What I don't get is why so much animus from some on DU? Oh, yeah! They support another horse in the primaries.

Regarding the bravery, or lack therof, primary's front runner: Howard Dean did all he could to stay out of the draft. He brought a note to his draft physical from his orthopedist and an X-ray from his radiologist and then stated his back hurt him when he ran. The army gave him a deferement. Dean then spent that winter in Vale, Colorado, skiing. That's why I call him Coward Dean.

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, Lobo_13.

[IndianaGreen]

56. Kerry's 3 Purple Hearts were for superficial wounds

and Kerry milked them for all he could.

Clark's Purple Heart was for life threatening wounds. I dare say that when it comes to valor and gallantry in the field of battle, Wes Clark can run circles around Kerry, and then some.

[Octafish]

63. Kerry rescued a man from drowning while getting shot.

Superficial or not, John Kerry got the man to safety at the risk of his own life.

Regarding Clark: Yes, he is brave, as well.

Regarding Dean: He is a coward.

[adadem]

32. Nail on the head

[Scott Lee]

74. Kerry voted for war. And guess what - it's still wrong.

You can shroud Kerry's mis-positions in layers and layers of rhetoric if you like, but at the end of the day, he's still an imperialist war enabler, and an accomplice in the attack against our constitution known as thee Patriot Acts.

That tells you just about all you need to know about John Kerry.

[KC21304]

42. Karl Rove couldn't have said it better.

I do not see one fact in all of the above post, just your opinion of Kerry's motives. Sad.

[Eloriel]

53. Yeah, it is my opinion -- to which I'm entitled

and I even get to express said opinion. Imagine that!

[KC21304]

67. You sure do. I wouldn't have it any other way.

And when in giving that opinion, my opinion is you are trying to spread hatred for another Democrat, without any facts, I can express that as well. Have a nice day.

[zulchzulu]

46. Dean is purely defined as dishonorable to me

Whether it's lying about his back and then going sking, lying about his original views on the IWR, lying about issues that he's flip-flopped on or not standing by his words that he would release his VT Gov. files if Bush did (and they are available), Dean is the epitome of dishonor.

Kerry is not a narcissist. He does in fact play hockey, hunt, wind surf, play guitar and ride a Harley among other things. He's a stud. Much more than Dean could ever be.

Your little screed failed to mention Dean playing guitar and harmonica for the crowd. Why did you leave that out? I guess you forgot, huh.

[MessiahRp]

70. Yep and the most honorable

Dean isn't narcissistic considering he himself has had more photo ops/live shots on him than anyone.

Get a life.

Rp

[Rose Siding]

27. It would be very inconsistant with his other attacks

Just this week, kerry tried to convince himself that Dean supported the war. An attack ad that implies weakness for an anti-war position argues the opposite.

[Eloriel]

55. Except if your posn was in favor of the war n/t

[Walt Starr]

29. I think it's him, Lieberman, Gephardt, and Clark

The former three will be getting behind Clark as the anti-Dean.

I could change my mind if any of them had the class to denounce the ad.

[Patriot_Spear]

38. If the ad is linked to ANY of our candidates- They will be off my ABB list

They will join Lieberman at the bottm of the barrel- mere milimeters above Bush*.

[zulchzulu]

39. It is Dean who is to blame, pure and simple

It is Dean who wants to try to be President in a historical time when having someone being President means that you should at least have some semblance of understanding international affairs and preferably at least have some kind of foreign policy background to be qualified to be a leader of the Free World.

Dean can't simply believe that this gaping liability can be solved by getting someone else to carry the load like having Clark as VP.

Anyone who thinks things can be all patched up with this strategy are admitting to Dean's weakness as a possible World leader.

Every time I see someone suggest that Dean needs Clark as VP, I know why. It is because Dean doesn't have a leg to stand on with the critical issues in 2004 of having foreign policy and national security experience. Of course, cries come back that Bush didn't have such experience. I reply "exactly!". You can see what happens when a neophyte is in charge.

Dean has viciously attacked the other candidates as much as he's attacked Bush and now wants purile sympathy for his intellectual dishonesty. This is nothing but childish behavior.

If Dean was a such a strong candidate that had a grasp of world affairs and wasn't as baffingly out of touch by referring to the Soviet Union as a country that we should buy nukes from (for example), then he wouldn't be seen as a rookie or a newbie or better described a world leader wannabe.

The ad, while a bit harsh, is simply the truth. Face facts. If Dean was a better candidate, this never would have been an issue.

[Patriot_Spear]

40. Butter and bullets my friend...

Domestic and Foriegn policy- it's the shoes on your feet; you get farther with both rahter than just one or the other.

Dean will do fine on Foriegn policy- just as a little known governor of Arkansas did when he took office.

Another red herring attack against Dean. Try again, we're still in the lead.

[zulchzulu]

45. We weren't at war when Clinton was elected

It's different now. National security and foreign policy experience is absolutely going to be an issue in 2004.

If you think it won't be and all your Dean fans tell you that, you have a lot to learn.

Speaking of being "in the lead", Clinton was polling at 2% in New Hampshire at about this time.

[IndianaGreen]

59. This "war" was an American creation

It was an American "President" that started this war, and it was an American Congress that gave him permission to attack a nation that did not attack the US.

What kind of foreign policy experience is the one displayed by the 4 idiots that voted for the Iraq War Resolution?

[Padraig18]

44. Kerry? No. Liberman and Gephart, maybe...

I don't see JK's fingerprints on this one...

[MontecitoDem]

48. Narcissist?

Show me a candidate for President who isn't a narcissist!  I
mean COME ON . . . who else would want to run for that
office??

[Eloriel]

57. Well, if you want to go that route,

we're all narcissists to some extent -- certainly all Americans. So I'll see your 9 candidates and raise you 290 million people, give or take a few.

[Melinda]

54. No.

[dragonlady]

58. Let's see what happens tomorrow

A visit to the Kerry and Gephardt websites just now did not show any statements about this ad. They are scheduled to be on morning talk shows tomorrow (Kerry on Fox, Gep on Face the Nation). One would hope they would be asked about this, and their answers may be revealing.

[Tinoire]

60. Nope. Those aren't Kerry talking points. This is DLC/Clinton

The proof is all over the web-site of the ad.
Reposting from an earlier post:

America is at a crossroads, facing perhaps the most important Presidential election in a generation. That’s why Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values was formed.

Our mission is to inform and educate citizens as to the various presidential candidates’ stands on critical issues facing American families related to jobs, healthcare and progressive values.

The Honorable Edward F. Feighan, President

"About Us"

Former Congressman Edward Feighan is the President of Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values. He is also currently the Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of ProCentury Corporation, the parent of the Century Insurance Group based in Columbus, Ohio. The Century Insurance Group is a specialty-lines insurer, writing commercial property/casualty insurance for niche markets nationwide, operating in 49 States and has annual gross premiums of approximately $175 million. Mr. Feighan has served as member of the board of directors of ProCentury since October, 2000.

Mr. Feighan served 20 consecutive years in elected office beginning in 1972. He served as a State Representative for six years, a Cuyahoga County Commissioner for four years, and as member of the United States House of Representatives for ten years. Congressman Feighan has been recognized as a leading authority on foreign policy and international trade and finance.

Since departing Congress in 1993, Congressman Feighan has served as a member of the Commission on Privatization in Russia; the U.S. Commission for Improving the United Nations; the Board of Trustees of the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs; the National Council of International Programs; and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

From 1996 to 1998, Mr. Feighan served as the Senior Vice President, founding President, CEO and director of Century Business Services, Inc. (NASDAQ: CBIZ). Century Business Services was recognized as the Best Growth Company in Ohio in 1999 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Mr. Feighan is also a founding partner of American Foreign Capital Partners (AFCAP). Maintaining offices in Cleveland, Ohio and St. Petersburg, Russia, AFCAP represents several multi-national businesses in the former Soviet Union. From 1998 until Mr. Feighan joined the senior management of Century Insurance Group, he served as the Managing Partner of Alliance Financial, Limited, a Cleveland, Ohio-based firm specializing in mergers, acquisitions and merchant banking services.

http://www.progressivevalues.com/default.asp?ID=3

====
Welcome to the Soros paid ads. Expect many more.

Edward F. Feighan was Bill Clinton's campaign Communications Director who got pretty close to Hillary at the Institute for Policy Studies
http://www.ips-dc.org/index.htm

It was Edward F. Feighan who introduced the Brady Bill in the House in 1987 as the NRA campaigned heavily against the gun control issue. http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Aborn1.html

George Stephanopoulos was his Administrative Assistant and later his Chief of Staff.
http://63.147.65.175/books/chap0411b.htm

Served on the Clinton Administration: Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/dward/classes/congpres/sim00.html


Neo-cons
vs
Centrists
vs
Progressives
vs
Corporations
vs
sincere, confused people, who don't have a clue about what's really going on
-----------

My theory? Soros and his 15 million. Soros never makes an investment he's not going to recoup handsomely. Hang on to your hats boys because Soros is furious at Putin right now for locking up his mafia oil buddy in Russia, shutting down Soros' "Democratic operations" that were financing the same kind of Democracy the National Endowment for Democracy is trying to bring to Venezuela (oil) and sternly warned Soros and Bush to stay the hell out of the Caspian Sea area not try that little stunt they pulled in Georgia with Shevernadze again (oil).

Meanwhile Soros' Democratic Think Tanks to "oust Bush" and replace him with a kindler, gentler Bush are gaining a foot-hold.

Nope, Rove is not really behind this one. Rove collaborators maybe but the enemy is within.

Ah, the benevolence of philanthropists wanting Democratic Reform working with such progressive organizations as the DLC with its ties to the AEI.

[Philostopher]

66. Sure it's Soros?

Maybe it's Peter Lewis (going off the top of my head here -- pretty sure that's his name, though), the CEO of Progressive Insurance. Isn't he another one who's vowed to contribute lots of money to oust Bush? Thought I remembered seeing something on here the other day where he'd said something very similar to Soros.

He's also from Cleveland, and also involved the insurance industry. Wonder if he's bankrolling Feighan.

I don't know -- maybe I'm punching at shadows here, but it does smell a little funny.

(edited typo and I'll add, by the way -- I don't think it's Kerry, either, and probably not Gephardt.)

[SahaleArm]

69. This is of course silly - It's connecting the dots to fit an argument.

We'll find out after donor filings are put forward.

[drfemoe]

72. just have to say it again

I admire how your brain works :thumbsup:

[w4rma]

62. Former Congressman Edward Feighan (Looks like a DK supporter, IMHO)

Former Congressman Edward Feighan is the President of Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values. He is also currently the Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of ProCentury Corporation, the parent of the Century Insurance Group based in Columbus, Ohio.
…
http://www.progressivevalues.com/default.asp?ID=3

[Tinoire]

76. Feighan and Kucinich are bitter rivals

Feighan did a lot of dirty things to keep Kucinich from being elected; Feighan is part of the political elite and well, we all know that Kucinich isn't.

Kucinich beat Feighan for Cleveland Governor in the 70s by a margin of about 3000 votes and all was not forgiven. Feighan pretty much hates him.

Here's a pretty vague google on it if you want to research.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Feighan+Kucinich

[Myra]

68. We still haven't established that so called ads were even broadcast on TV.

All we've seen are leaks to a SF newspaper, which
is how the media mouthpiece is used to spread propaganda.

If it's all leak and no broadcast, all backlash and no lash,
it's pretty suspicious.

Just Kerry and Edwards smeared, and a fund-raising leakabalozza
for Dean.
Don't know if it was a fund raising tactic, but we haven't
heard from one DUer who saw the ad on TV, in spite of repeated
queries.

[KC21304]

73. No proof of ads being broadcast, but

if Kerry and Gephardt don't denounce them, they must be guilty of comething. Sounds sane to me ! I think you are on to something, Myra.

[Scott Lee]

75. If ANY of the three losers (Kerry, Gep or LIEberman)....

is responsible for that ad against Dean, they just lost my vote and I mean even if they were to get the nomination. Putting a lowlife like that in office wouldn't be much of an improvement over the pustule sucking moron we have there now.