why do white Christians lean to the right?

[pstokely]

and not black or hispanic Christians?

[dbt]

1. Two words:

White Males.

:evilgrin:
dbt

[rogerashton]

3. Gee, that was an intelligent response!

(Yes, I am a white male. But lots of white Christians, probably the majority, are wimminfolk).

My two word answer would be

rich hypocrits.

But two words are not enough. I just don't think it is true that white Christians generically lean to the right. NB Catholics are Christians, and a lot of mainline Protestants are quite liberal. Even among white fundies, we find the whole political spectrum, although, to be sure, the distribution is skewed.

[mandyky]

39. A different set of two words

Fundamentalist Born-again (Christians)
or
Taliban-like Christians

Reasonable religious white folks can go either way.

[displacedtexan]

2. one word

control

[stanwyck]

32. Yes. ultimate control freaks

can't stand the idea of women, minorities, or homosexuals being, shudder, equals. They use the Bible as a weapon, not as spiritual guidance. What the Bible says is less about their own growth and more about how to judge other people.

[Vulcan59]

56. Exceptions.

I think there are some like that, but the Bible also teaches acceptance. I think to use the bible to judge other people goes against Christian values. There are always religious fanatics of course.

[TheBigGuy]

4. who sez black and hispanic xtians dont lean right?

My experience is that on certain issues (particularly in controversies surrounding local gay rights laws) they ally with the white right.

I would like to see some hard polling data correlating this...correlating evangelical christianity and right-wing/conservative political views in minority communitys...possibly leading to GOP voting.

I have a hunch this correlation exisits, but dont have the numbers to prove it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Attitudes Agaist Homosexuality

are stronger in the African-American community than in the caucasian community but I have seen no evidence this is driving them into the arms of the Republican party.

Don't know about Hispanics.

[JI7]

18. but most african-american leaders

most african american leaders don't seem to be anti gay. in fact it seems most are inclusive. that's what i always found interesting. but it shows how the democratic party attracts many different types of people. i think the above is true of hispanics also.

[jagguy]

34. A.A. Leaders

are not representative of the entire community in all matters in much the same way Democratic leaders are not representative of etire Democratic community. Remember Jessie called it a rainbow coalition to be as inclusive as possible.

[msanger]

5. fundamentalist christians lean to the right

And so probably, do most fundamentalist Jews, Buddhists, and whatever else you have.

Somebody presented an interesting post a few days about, about what draws people to conservative/fundamentalist positions. It was from research done at Berkley -- and the idea was that conservatives are into control, dogmatism, and things like that.

So I think it is the "fundamentalism" aspect of some christians that lead them to lean right.

Just look at all the Churches who came out against the Iraq invasion.

[Mountainman]

16. I sure would like to have a link to that study

I have heard this before. I see it in many fundie type be they Protestants or Catholics. They like authority and say that it comes from God and is passed down to them so it is their religious duty to control people. They use laws to keep people from doing what their intellect tells them is the right thing to do. Such as supporting gay rights or something. Even if they felt that there should not be any discrimination based on sexual preference, the rule of the church trumps their rational thinking.

Kant had this idea a long time ago in his answer to what is enlightenment.

[berry]

41. I think this is the article you want--

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

I didn't open it again but my bookmark title is 'what makes a political conservative' I tried to follow up and get the full article, but the journal it's in doesn't publish articles on the web (just abstracts).

[Exultant Democracy]

36. Exactly, fundies are scrary people n/t

[ikojo]

43. Fundy Christians and Jews

There really is no such thing as a fundamentalist Jew in the same way it is defined for Christians. Judaism by its nature asks questions. I get the feeling that with Christianity, especially the fundamentalist variety, if one asks questions then it means one's faith is not nearly strong enough. Jews, even the most orthodox, do not interpret the bible LITERALLY as do many fundy Christians. Orthodox Jews look to rabbinical leaders and the Talmud for guidance on what the bible says and its meaning.

For example, "An eye for an eye" has a completely different meaning for an observant Jew (whether he/she be reform,conservative or orthodox). It does not mean that if someone knocks my eye out then I can go tear his out (although I will accept that there are many on the extreme Israeli right who use this as justification for oppressing Palestinians. As I understand it, this would be a misuse). According to what I heard one rabbi say in a sermon regarding this it means that if someone causes me to lose my eye then that person is responsible for reimbursing me the cost of that eye. Of course it would be up to a court to decide the cost.

While many within the orthodox Jewish community have allied themselves with the Repuke right most Jews, even orthodox, are socially liberal even if they may be fiscally conservative. The -pukes still haven't really broken into the Jewish community. Too many people like Pat Buchanan are welcomed with open arms and that scares Jews. The social conservatism of the Repuke party is a huge turnoff for many Jews across the religious spectrum. The feeling is that if you hate gays, blacks etc then you probably hate Jews.

The Jew from St Lou

[searchingforlight]

6. I believe it is fear.

Blacks and Hispanics have been on the bottom. Their faith was born looking up and everything was either a blessing or status quo.

White Conservative Christians are born from guilt and fear. Most whites started with something. It may not have been material. It may have been the "knowledge" that they had an advantage because of the color of their skin. Their faith helped them to hold on to what they had and, if something happened to take what they had away, they believed it was because they had sinned and so they were easy prey for the fundamentalists who could show them the way to redemption.

I don't believe God means this relationship to be so hard. I subscribe to a Joshua type of relationship - enjoy each moment, keep life simple, don't get sucked in.

[44wax]

21. agreed

Fear the welfare queen, the gang banger, the unqualified minority, the liberal who will give away the treasury to anyone not whiteous.

[Ress1]

7. Sex

Liberals are a little too tolerant about peoples lifestyles.

[Aaron]

9. Nm. I made a stupid response :) (n/t)

'

[LiberalLibra]

10. I'm sorry to disagree but I live in a heavy Hispanic populated area.....

...and almost to a person they are VERY repuke. In fact more than one has said to me, "At least Bush didn't lie about sex." Others have said, "He talks so the poor people can understand him." Even others have said, "Bush cares for families."

Of course anyone who has any idea at all about what is really going on realizes all those claims are plain wrong and even dillusional.

BTW, I am white and definitely NOT REPUKE. Why?? Because I read and keep up on the news without relying on the commercial networks or Faux news for my information.

[Clete]

27. Ohmigod.

I am hispanic and I know of what you speak. I spent many a conversation arguing similar points with my mother. It gets me so angry,(bangs head against the wall) but the Repukes have been putting their advertising dollars in the Spanish media to spread this propaganda. Democrats don't spend enough money spreading their propaganda points so there you've got it.

[deutsey]

11. In a general, broad-brush way, I think blacks and Hispanics

are more sensitive to the teachings of Jesus that challenge the status quo on social justice. The Kingdom of God, which Jesus proclaimed, was (and is) pretty revolutionary in that it dismisses one's social position, wealth, religion, etc., and even says the poor and outcast will be first in the Kingdom.

White, conservative Christians, on the other hand, more or less want to retain (or "conserve") a status quo they benefit from, and, therefore, they emphasize the traditional institutional interpretations of Christ that reinforce their assumptions about who should have authority and power in a society (men, for instance, and those whom God has "blessed" with money and property, etc.).

Again, this is a very general and sweeping assessment but it basically gets at what my thoughts on this are.

And, as has been pointed out in other posts here, things don't break down along racial/ethnic lines as neatly as my simplistic categorizations might imply.

Second edit: Spelled "broad-brush" incorrectly.

[Runesong]

12. Differences between christian denominations

There are denominations such as Congregational, Methodist, Unitarian and others that focus on spirituality, spiritual growth, fellowship and service to their communities. These denominations' outreach typically consists of bake-sales, spaghetti suppers for the elderly, fundraising and drives for local food-banks and fuel assistance.

There are, on the other hand ultra-conservative denominations such as Southern Baptist, Assembly of God, Jehova Witness, etc, that are primarily focused on salvation, indoctrination and control of others. Their outreach consists of in-your-face evangelism, and manipulation of our political system to legislate their morality.

I think you will find that the vast majority of christians are in that first category. Unfortunately, the fundamentalist minority are the most politically active. They are the ones trying to turn our governemnt into an American Taliban.

[QC]

13. Because the ground on which they are standing is slanted.

[searchingforlight]

14. Very Good!

[Darranar]

15. They're part of two majorities...

Look at the white Protestant heterosexual male population and you'll find that they are tilted quite a bit to the right. It has to do with how many minorities you're in, to an extent.

That is not to say that there are no white Protestant heterosexual male liberals. There are plenty of those.

One of the reasons for this is that those who have suffered racism and bigotry are generally less ignorant than those who haven't. Ignorance=conservatism all too often.

[trof]

17. Too much change

in the right pocket?

[Lars39]

19. For the many fundamentalists that I know

abortion is the first reason, and homosexuality is the second.

[shimmergal]

23. Abortion and homosexuality are the hot-button issues for fundamentalists

right now, but it's worth pondering how these got to be their big issues. It wasn't always so.

Certainly a literal reading of the Bible yields a lot more fuel against divorce than against either of the above. Yet the fundies have pretty much thrown in the towel on this; divorce laws are no longer a public or religious issue to them.

I'm not sure I know the answers to my own point: Why_ at this point in time are abortion and homosexuality the big threats to conservative "Christians" on the cultural landscape?. But I think it's worth an article or three.

[leftyandproud]

20. affirmative action..

regardless of religion, affirmative action benefits are a powerful incentive for minorities NOT to vote repuke.

[leesa]

22. I think abortion is number one issue for Christians

Perhaps black and hispanic people are more familiar with the notion of people needing abortions because they can't afford the pregnancy either through their own experience or other friends and relatives.

[Liberator_Rev]

24. It's inevitable !

At our website, below, we argue that the essence of Conservatism is maximizing the privileges of one's class, while Liberalism is the promotion of the good of all, or "the common good". So in a country where whites, Christians, straights, the employed, the middle class, etc. are in the majority, members of those groups will want to "conserve" their advantages. And the more of those groups one belongs to, the further "right" one will tend to be (unless virtue and good sense can overcome one's selfish interests).

at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Liberals .
WE are the Answer to the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" .
YOU are the way to get the word out, because unlike THEM,
WE are the friends of the POOR and the downtrodden,
who can't give US the kind of support that
the RICH give to our opponents.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Because they carry that big, heavy Ruger .44mag

on the right side.

"why do white Christians lean to the right?"

[Az]

26. Oppression

White Christians have not suffered outragious oppression. Yet the religion they follow is filled with overtones of an oppressed people. Thus they have a self image of being oppressed while they attempt to oppress others. Then when they attempt to push their beliefs and positions on others they see it as verification that they are oppressed when their attempts are thwarted.

Blacks and Hispanics know real oppression. They have had their fill of it. They understand the words of oppression and will not partake in them. They will not be party to the oppression of others. Even if those others are different from them in many ways.

[drdigi420]

28. I agree

Oppression seems to be the main theme of religion and republicanism alike. This is why most religous people are republican (including Lieberman).

They believe some magic man in the sky makes up all the rules and that everyone should be forced to live by their version of these rules.

It's about control and oppression and the stifling of science.

There is no room for facts in the mind of a fundie.

[JohnKleeb]

29. dont know honestly though I am a white male christian

My grandparents are Catholic and big time democrats my mentors in some ways though I am more to the left than them but that doesnt matter if they are ABB too welcome to the party and I am pretty left so I bet they are rank and file like so I am saying. My grandparents grew up poor like how some Hispanic and Black Christians have so I bet it gave them respect in fact although most cant tell it of course and dont believe this. Now not to offend but I think theres a difference between Western Europeans and Eastern European Americans I really do, most from the east came poor and were insulted now the west has that with the Irish but mostly Eastern Europeans were poor and stuff not to say the western ones werent but they had a harder time assamliting. My great grandmother really never learned English and she lived here for 40 years. Maybe its because my grandparents are kind hearted people who may not be liberals but arent DLC wankers either and they have taught me a lot. Working class ideals I suppose and without them I would be lost in the darkness that is George Bush's america. Sorry for the rant but its true my grandparents are one of my key influences.

[nini]

30. not all of us do...

oh hell no..

white and Christian here...

[Tigermoose]

31. Because we are the ultimate evil force in the universe.

All your bases are belong to us.

[stanwyck]

33. If they actually read the Bible

they would be Democrats or Greens. There are hundreds of references in the Bible about caring for plants and animals.

[durutti]

35. Racism and sexism

[CBHagman]

37. I get the impression you're only talking about one type of Christian

Are you speaking only of evangelical, born-again types? If so, I see your point, but I don't have any survey to hand that shows that they are all political conservatives or that they tend to be political conservatives.

Catholics are a mixed bunch politically, from what I've read, and there are plenty of examples of that variety among the punditocracy, activists, and elected officials. Patrick Buchanan, Martin Sheen, Patrick Leahy, Richard Durbin, Sean Hannity are Catholics. Robert Novak and Robert Bork are converts (I know. Makes me nervous, too.)

Methodists? Well, you've got Hillary Rodham Clinton and George W. Bush there. Consider that little image.

Hispanics, as a group, tend to vote Democratic in this country but defy easy classification politically. There are all extremes among them. There's no point in comparing a right-wing Cuban American from Miami with my Dominican American council member, who is a true liberal.

At any rate, I'd urge you to not casually toss the term "Christian" around when referring to particular political persuasions. I hate how the term has been appropriated for uses that have nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Really, a lot of people who claim the Christian label, such as the Christian Coalition, are merely for promotion of capitalism and what's considered a conservative social agenda. What they're doing does not necessarily have anything to do with the Gospel.

[JohnKleeb]

38. Catholics are odd bunch yes

You got your mainline Catholic my grandparents who vote dem mostly if not always and then you got the nuts who live in my neighborhood aka the moral minority thats just the name for the kids of course and of course you got me the CINO who does respect the pope but finds himself disagreeing a lot and etc.

[xchrom]

40. ingrained racism and sexism

and fundamentalism is a cult -- and it's not christian. it's evil and preaches a kind of violence.

[Vulcan59]

58. Agreed.

True Christians practice acceptance as i've stated above. They help people and try to be good stewards of the faith.

[spanone]

42. Do you mean Colin Powell or Condi Rice, JC Watts?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Why do generalities lean to the absurd?

My wife is a practicing Catholic who seldom misses mass. She is also a socialist, pro-choice, anti-war, environmentalist, loathes bushco, likes Castro, and is married to an agnostic who shares all of the above opinions save Catholicism. She's also white.

Hadn't realized she leans to the right.


Oh, we also support the white Christian Mary Knoll nuns who are being imprisoned for holding protests at nuclear silos.

Not all white Christians are the BillyBob con artists on TV, or John Ashcroft.

[karlschneider]

45. Uh, they're born with longer left legs...........and

it embarrasses them?
:D

[SharonAnn]

46. Well, jactually Hispanic Christians are beginning to lean more

to the right. Traditional Hispanic culture is a conservative culture and their religious practices are beocming more and more conservative. The largest growth in the Christian churches is among the conservatives south of the equator.

Also, fundamentalist and evangelical churches are making inroads in the souther hemisphere and starting to affect the people and causing them to lean to the right.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

47. i'm a whitey christian catholic and have never in my52 years leaned right!

nor my parents,,,your brush is TOO broad

[Dob Bole]

48. Vast Misconception (otherwise known as bullshit)

Most Christians (and Jews) vote Dem in almost every presidential election. The highest percentage of white male Republican voters is in Protestants, because there really are no fundamentalist Catholics or Orthodox. Fundies are just seen on TV more, because they have more money, but they're not confined to certain denominations. MLK and Jimmy Carter, both Nobel Peace Prize winners, were both Baptists. Pentecostals have Al-Sharpton and Bono types.

And outside America, white Christians do not typically lean to the right. The primary British Christian intellectual was C.S. Lewis, who recommended an economically leftist government, I think in "Mere Christianity." When Christianity first spread to Europe, many of the European Christian fathers were pacifists- clearly not a rightist view. The Roman Catholic Church, all mainstream Protestant churches, and all of the pacifist churches were officially against the Iraq war.

I think rightist media would have us believe that all Christians should be Repubes. But it just doesn't add up to the Gospel. And it's not race-based.

[bleedingheart]

49. not all

that is a stereotype the Right wing likes to use...

My family is primarily white christians hailing from Eastern Europe and 98% are Democrats...

[Bake]

50. I am a white, male, Christian, and I DO NOT lean right!

And I know several more of us.

Thank you.

Bake

[whoYaCallinAlib]

51. Neither do I.

I think you might have a faulty stereotype.

[pstokely]

52. have you been discriminated against?

Savage Weiner says you have been

[Lexingtonian]

53. because European Christianity is different

All of the answers people have given are right, but don't quite answer your question.

Politically you can split white American Christianity into two factions; some denominations are split between them, others are majority one or the other. One faction is pretty straight Christianity without a extra-Biblical ideology. And then there is conservative Christianity, which has overt accretions of extra-Biblical ideology and political agendas.

The extra-Biblical ideology of white American conservative Christianity has several different parts politically. Abortion, homosexuality, death penalty, Creationism, existence of a Devil and a tripartited Deity, patriarchy/authority, and tribalisms/racisms are the ones most prominent in their adherents' argument with the rest of society. They are particularly permissive of certain kinds of nature worship- the 'proofs' for the existence of a God amount to an explanation of Nature's existence, and materialism and totemism (e.g. relics) get easy passes.

The derivation of this extra-Biblical stuff is, in their case, the often highly dogmatic religions and practices of mostly their European ancestors and related peoples before they got Christianized. Yes, they have tried to enlist and misread the Bible to make it fit as best as they can. They, like their forebearers, have redefined these beliefs as 'Christian' though the historical record shows that most of them became 'tradition' between the fourth and twelfth centuries AD inside Europe (the technical term is 'syncretism'). For example, the 3+1 Christian deities are now even associated with the symbols of the foursome they replaced (Sky, Sun/Earth, Rain, Fire) and even the sign of the foursome, the orthogonal two lines originally indicating quadripartition of the universe. For a long time Christians even buried their dead according the distinctive rules of the old European/Anatolian religion(s) (the different ones tended to be, like their languages, descended from a common ancestor), facing eastward. Anyway, the evidence is endless that most Christian forms are lifted from other religions.

So the conservative white American Christian is deeply invested in the arrangement of the past 300 years, where her/his beliefs are/were defined as legitimate and politically definitive and (because so vulnerable to actual historical examination) given the privilege of various protections and active stifling of criticism of it by the society. IOW, to be a conservative Christian means investment in the existing social arrangement of privileges, and it is also a conserving of a belief system and ideology much older and dogmatic than Christianity itself. (Generally, conservative Christians resort to claiming active pursuit of the Great Commission as a loophole when confronted with the accusation of privilege.) There is no other part of the political spectrum for a person committed to and living such ideas.

Have a look at "The Death of the West" by Pat Buchanan to see the outlook of such a person on the world. Pat is something of an exception in not really claiming to be a Christian though he evades the suspicions by identifying himself as 'the child of working class Roman Catholics' a lot.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Non-white American Christians are a complicated story, in each case reflecting its group's historical experience of oppression by conservative whites, be that in the United States or Latin America or Asia, and syncretizing what they could of their pre-Christian religious beliefs and cultural practices into their adopted versions of Christianity.

Anti-abortion dogma derives semi-independently worldwide from farming culture/religion. As societies become increasingly engaged in agriculture it becomes increasingly unaffordable for crops to fail, and almost all farming cultures engage intensively in religious behavior to ensure that crops prosper. These practices and the beliefs they generate are given the technical term 'fertility cultism'. Fertility cultism was more involved with concerns about enough game animals during the hunter-gatherer days, but when peoples became agricultural they started developing all kinds of rituals and elaborate beliefs associated with plant reproduction- rituals to handling seeds and germination and such. Those ideas soon got transferred over to human beings and their reproduction in these communities and societies.

So afaik anti-abortion conviction is generated in farming communities, though it isn't a fervent view there, but it becomes politically salient among people who are just off or one or two generations off the farm and clinging to it nostalgically as the reference place, the place where the meaning and pattern to life appears understood and clear and unlike the confusions of modern life. These people also cling to other beliefs, e.g. about their ruling class and family organization and such. I think that explains a lot of Hispanic conservatism as well as that of rural/ex-rural whites.

[SoCalDem]

54. Racism , guns & ignorance

:(

[Vulcan59]

59. Guns?

Guns are our 2nd amendment. I think every party should be for them. Just my two cents. I can see why a person pro-2nd amendment would lean towards conservative. They are pro-2nd (pro gun) also.

[Gringo]

60. Guns suck.

Because of them our muder rate is a hundred times higher than any of the other advanced countries. And in spite of half the country being armed, we've still morphed into a protofascist security state. Gun lovers need to spend some time in societies with real gun control. I have, and it is WONDERFUL.

[VOX]

55. Fear. Fundamentalist Xians are caught in a fear-cycle...

Their rigid beliefs keep them in a state of perpetual vigilance -- they attribute any bad things that occur to "outsiders"; in fact, "outsiders" (minorities, gays, liberals, immigrants, non-fundies, the Clintons, etc.) are viewed as a threat.

[JackSwift]

57. I'm a white, male, middle-aged Christian

and I'm no righty.

[regnaD kciN]

61. Answer: They don't...

The vast majority of Christian denominations are rather left-leaning. And, yes, that includes the primarily "white." middle-class denominations.

Don't let the fundies fool you into believing that they speak for all Christians -- or even all "white" Christians.